Diesel Fuel Additive?
Diesel Fuel Additive?
(04-01-2011, 10:44 AM)playadude They sure like fuel additives down there.Of course, and they would be happy to sell you as much as you want to buy.
Quote:Any recommendations on this board? Do I need any?None are needed, none work.
Quote:Can I still get the "old fashioned" diesel here in Denver?You mean dirty diesel that will turn your engine oil acidic and increases pollution in our wonderful city? Nope. As of December 2010 ALL diesel is ULSD.
ForcedInduction
04-02-2011, 11:02 AM
#3
(04-01-2011, 10:44 AM)playadude They sure like fuel additives down there.Of course, and they would be happy to sell you as much as you want to buy.
Quote:Any recommendations on this board? Do I need any?None are needed, none work.
Quote:Can I still get the "old fashioned" diesel here in Denver?You mean dirty diesel that will turn your engine oil acidic and increases pollution in our wonderful city? Nope. As of December 2010 ALL diesel is ULSD.
Ed
yankneck696
04-02-2011, 05:37 PM #4If you want the old type diesel, go to a marina or fuel company & bring cans. It is still availible for marine & heavy equipment.
Ed
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
04-02-2011, 08:31 PM #5The off road diesel at the fuel company by my shop is ULSD. Just no road tax, that's the only difference
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
04-02-2011, 08:36 PM #7Yea I don't use it in my car, our company has an account there for cutting fluid and way oil. Just had a conversation about it with the guy that works there
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
04-02-2011, 09:19 PM #9Just the sulfur content. Has to be below 15 ppm or something like that
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
Good question though I'm sure forced knows
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
04-02-2011, 09:29 PM #11As far as I know the sulfur is a natural impurity in the fuel. I don't know if they changed anything beyond the sulfur content. I can't see how sulfur could possibly make your car run better.
Good question though I'm sure forced knows
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
The complaint has been that the process that removes the sulfur degrades the lubricity of the fuel. This issue has been dealt with by adding 2stroke oil by motorists. And more recently lubricity is increased by adding 5-20% biodiesel to dino diesel. I'm sure that all varies by region too.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Coming from you, I now know what say is true. My question was based on a bunch of literature at the emissions shop. That literature said that the new fuel is harder on our engines, etc.
I appreciate your straightforward knowledge on this issue. I've read a ton of your posts and can tell that you know what you are talking about.
Pete
(04-02-2011, 11:02 AM)ForcedInduction(04-01-2011, 10:44 AM)playadude They sure like fuel additives down there.Of course, and they would be happy to sell you as much as you want to buy.
Quote:Any recommendations on this board? Do I need any?None are needed, none work.
Quote:Can I still get the "old fashioned" diesel here in Denver?You mean dirty diesel that will turn your engine oil acidic and increases pollution in our wonderful city? Nope. As of December 2010 ALL diesel is ULSD.
Thanks Forced,
Coming from you, I now know what say is true. My question was based on a bunch of literature at the emissions shop. That literature said that the new fuel is harder on our engines, etc.
I appreciate your straightforward knowledge on this issue. I've read a ton of your posts and can tell that you know what you are talking about.
Pete
(04-02-2011, 11:02 AM)ForcedInduction(04-01-2011, 10:44 AM)playadude They sure like fuel additives down there.Of course, and they would be happy to sell you as much as you want to buy.
Quote:Any recommendations on this board? Do I need any?None are needed, none work.
Quote:Can I still get the "old fashioned" diesel here in Denver?You mean dirty diesel that will turn your engine oil acidic and increases pollution in our wonderful city? Nope. As of December 2010 ALL diesel is ULSD.
(04-02-2011, 09:22 PM)garage What are the pros/cons between them?
A dirty running engine with LSD and a clean running engine with ULSD.
Quote:This issue has been dealt with by adding 2stroke oil by motorists.No. The issue is dealt with at the refinery by meeting set lubricity standards before it can be delivered. Its further dealt with by the fuel stations when they add their own proprietary additive blends. The end user adding even more additives has no benefit.
2-stoke oil has no place being used in diesel, its not designed to mix with anything but gasoline. In a 21 gallon tank, adding even 16oz is only 168:1 ratio. Such an amount is the highest reasonable volume likely to be used per tankful and makes zero difference to the lubricity of the fuel. Fuel lubricity doesn't even matter much for our engines, the injection pump is lubricated by engine oil.
Quote:That literature said that the new fuel is harder on our engines, etc.It isn't. Its actually far better for them since it reduces the amount of sulfur and soot produced by the engine that contaminates the oil and cokes the injectors, pistons and rings. That also means you can run a longer oil change interval, further saving money and reducing waste.
ForcedInduction
04-03-2011, 09:17 AM
#14
(04-02-2011, 09:22 PM)garage What are the pros/cons between them?
A dirty running engine with LSD and a clean running engine with ULSD.
Quote:This issue has been dealt with by adding 2stroke oil by motorists.No. The issue is dealt with at the refinery by meeting set lubricity standards before it can be delivered. Its further dealt with by the fuel stations when they add their own proprietary additive blends. The end user adding even more additives has no benefit.
2-stoke oil has no place being used in diesel, its not designed to mix with anything but gasoline. In a 21 gallon tank, adding even 16oz is only 168:1 ratio. Such an amount is the highest reasonable volume likely to be used per tankful and makes zero difference to the lubricity of the fuel. Fuel lubricity doesn't even matter much for our engines, the injection pump is lubricated by engine oil.
Quote:That literature said that the new fuel is harder on our engines, etc.It isn't. Its actually far better for them since it reduces the amount of sulfur and soot produced by the engine that contaminates the oil and cokes the injectors, pistons and rings. That also means you can run a longer oil change interval, further saving money and reducing waste.
Quote: Fuel lubricity doesn't even matter much for our engines, the injection pump is lubricated by engine oil.Forced why do you write this when you know it is not true?
Fuel lubricity is very important for the life of the IP elements and the injectors
And in the beginning of this treat you wrote that no additive is needed since they don't work, but later you wrote that fuel stations add additives to improve lubricity.
Wow: are you saying that additives work for fuel stations but not for us? or are you saying that fuel stations are mistaken because fuel lubricity isn't important(according to you)?
Quote: Fuel lubricity doesn't even matter much for our engines, the injection pump is lubricated by engine oil.Forced why do you write this when you know it is not true?
Fuel lubricity is very important for the life of the IP elements and the injectors
And in the beginning of this treat you wrote that no additive is needed since they don't work, but later you wrote that fuel stations add additives to improve lubricity.
Wow: are you saying that additives work for fuel stations but not for us? or are you saying that fuel stations are mistaken because fuel lubricity isn't important(according to you)?
(04-03-2011, 12:05 PM)zx670 anyone who blindly trusts lubricity standards from our goverment is a fool
Anyone who thinks the "goverment" set the standard is a fool.
(04-03-2011, 05:25 PM)erling66 Forced why am I arguing when I know what you wrote is true?Thats a good question.
Quote:And in the beginning of this treat you wrote that no additive is needed since they don't work, but later you wrote that fuel stations add additives to improve lubricity.Whats your argumentative point?
Quote:Wow: are you saying that additives work for fuel stations but not for us?No, you are unable to understand what I said. Read it again, multiple times if need be.
Quote:read thisRead what? An empty forum?
ForcedInduction
04-03-2011, 07:25 PM
#17
(04-03-2011, 12:05 PM)zx670 anyone who blindly trusts lubricity standards from our goverment is a fool
Anyone who thinks the "goverment" set the standard is a fool.
(04-03-2011, 05:25 PM)erling66 Forced why am I arguing when I know what you wrote is true?Thats a good question.
Quote:And in the beginning of this treat you wrote that no additive is needed since they don't work, but later you wrote that fuel stations add additives to improve lubricity.Whats your argumentative point?
Quote:Wow: are you saying that additives work for fuel stations but not for us?No, you are unable to understand what I said. Read it again, multiple times if need be.
Quote:read thisRead what? An empty forum?
try this one. it is a test of many of the common fuel additives and their effectiveness, as well as a good explanation.
Yes it works this time,sorry
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthr...p?t=177728
try this one. it is a test of many of the common fuel additives and their effectiveness, as well as a good explanation.
Yes it works this time,sorry
(04-03-2011, 08:30 PM)zx670 LOL who do you think inspects and monitors the fuel?You think wrong.
Quote:your so full of misinformation at times its laughable.If you're wanting to attempt an attack on me, it helps if you learn to spell.
Quote:try this one.Got any scientific tests that use real-world information instead of fabricated laboratory tests that doesn't apply to actual engines?
ForcedInduction
04-04-2011, 09:42 AM
#19
(04-03-2011, 08:30 PM)zx670 LOL who do you think inspects and monitors the fuel?You think wrong.
Quote:your so full of misinformation at times its laughable.If you're wanting to attempt an attack on me, it helps if you learn to spell.
Quote:try this one.Got any scientific tests that use real-world information instead of fabricated laboratory tests that doesn't apply to actual engines?
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
Yes to fuel additive in diesel, been there done that!
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
Ed
yankneck696
04-04-2011, 11:12 AM #21ZX, don't even bother. YOU will get banned by arguing with him. He will alter your words & misquote you till you blast him. Been there, done that. Take a deep breath & realize that it is a waste of your time to try to have a productive discussion with someone that has a closed mindset.
Ed
If those that wish to make a stink with the #2 discussions desire to continue making #2 out of it, then things might get messy...
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
Sadly, sometimes a blanket approach is the only way to go when it comes to vacation time.
If those that wish to make a stink with the #2 discussions desire to continue making #2 out of it, then things might get messy...
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
A good friend of mine works as an industrial chemist out of a testing lab in Long Beach California. His work is to assay and qualify the output of the refineries. It includes tests such as was mentioned in the link for lubricity.
Most of the fuel runs down the pipeline to holding tanks and is "untreated" or unmodified. It is blended with additives by the end user for different markets and uses.
The diesel fuel in the holding tank is tested before dispensing to ensure it meets the minimum requirements required by the Federal and local (AQMD and CARB) authorities especially the required maximum sulfur content.
Different end users blend additives at their respective facilities before they are tanker trucked out to the retailers. Many lower cost retailers buy directly and blend only the required additives ( such as a percentage of alcohols in gasoline). Retailers such as Chevron and Shell have a heavy dose of additives.
The value of the various additives is not without debate, but as to who tests the fuel? Testing is done all along the distribution channel to ensure a consistent product for performance and environmental reasons. No one wants to brave the fines and penalties and lawsuits that can occur if you decide not to test and document. A battery of tests on a million gallon batch of fuel is nothing compared to the hammer blow fines the EPA can levy if you distribute sub standard fuel. Here in Southern California, there is a lot of testing.
As to the issue of lubricity. The link ronnie shared backs up what my friend remarked about lubricity - bio diesel has considerably more lubricity than ULSD alone. A small blend in the B2 or B5 range is economical and effective in improving the lubricity of ULSD dramatically.
RustyLugNut
04-04-2011, 12:38 PM #23Thank you for the link ronnie. That had good information.
A good friend of mine works as an industrial chemist out of a testing lab in Long Beach California. His work is to assay and qualify the output of the refineries. It includes tests such as was mentioned in the link for lubricity.
Most of the fuel runs down the pipeline to holding tanks and is "untreated" or unmodified. It is blended with additives by the end user for different markets and uses.
The diesel fuel in the holding tank is tested before dispensing to ensure it meets the minimum requirements required by the Federal and local (AQMD and CARB) authorities especially the required maximum sulfur content.
Different end users blend additives at their respective facilities before they are tanker trucked out to the retailers. Many lower cost retailers buy directly and blend only the required additives ( such as a percentage of alcohols in gasoline). Retailers such as Chevron and Shell have a heavy dose of additives.
The value of the various additives is not without debate, but as to who tests the fuel? Testing is done all along the distribution channel to ensure a consistent product for performance and environmental reasons. No one wants to brave the fines and penalties and lawsuits that can occur if you decide not to test and document. A battery of tests on a million gallon batch of fuel is nothing compared to the hammer blow fines the EPA can levy if you distribute sub standard fuel. Here in Southern California, there is a lot of testing.
As to the issue of lubricity. The link ronnie shared backs up what my friend remarked about lubricity - bio diesel has considerably more lubricity than ULSD alone. A small blend in the B2 or B5 range is economical and effective in improving the lubricity of ULSD dramatically.
Ed
yankneck696
04-04-2011, 12:51 PM #24There are also additives that help with the bacteria issues & recently I have hears issues of an actual virus that is breeding in diesel, but I have no further information (other than the owner of a large boat manufacturer I know & trust).
Ed
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
A virus needs a host, so it would need some critters in the fuel in order to cause problems.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
Here is i tip, fishing vessels, ferry's etc have strict rules for safety, so if you find some that use additives for their diesel and engine oil, you can be quite certain that it is of good quality and worth to try. I got some from a car ferry mechanic and so far it has been working great. The additive is called a clean burning catalyst. I use it in one of my cars where I mix 25% WVO with the diesel, and the combustion chamber and valves stay clean.
-Jesse
80 300sd hy35, front mount intercooler, w115 intake, rack limiter removed, Alda removed, full load turned up, boost, ebp, trans, pyro, egr delete, 3.5" exhaust, e-fan, 16x8 rims with, 245/50 tires, lowered, bilstien 5100's, 12" front brakes, 2.65:1 diff.
97 f250 psd 4x4, crawler
70 f250 390
83 Volvo 242, lots of mods
66 Volvo amazon
10 mistsubishi fuso service truck.
2 stroke oil in mechanical injected engines.
-Jesse
80 300sd hy35, front mount intercooler, w115 intake, rack limiter removed, Alda removed, full load turned up, boost, ebp, trans, pyro, egr delete, 3.5" exhaust, e-fan, 16x8 rims with, 245/50 tires, lowered, bilstien 5100's, 12" front brakes, 2.65:1 diff.
97 f250 psd 4x4, crawler
70 f250 390
83 Volvo 242, lots of mods
66 Volvo amazon
10 mistsubishi fuso service truck.
Ed
yankneck696
04-04-2011, 08:22 PM #28Jesse, check out Ronnie's link. Doesn't look like the 2 stroke oil did well.
Ed
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