Electronic IP interchange?
Electronic IP interchange?
03-17-2011, 10:32 AM
#1
1981 300SD...Too much propane = bent rods. Junked
1980 240D...Body fell off. Saved drivetrain and junked
1985 300D...No.2 and N2O = 16.35@85mph. Sold
1999 E300TD...3" exhaust with banks muffler, Hx-35, 215hp tune, IP resistor box, bad crankshaft snout
2005 E320 CDI...AMG injectors, EGR removed, mapping
Vids! http://www.youtube.com/user/silverado408
Pics! http://s776.photobucket.com/albums/yy42/...rformance/
gen3performance
03-17-2011, 10:32 AM #1Just wondering if anyone can tell me if the 98-99 injection pumps will work on the 96-97 mercedes cars without any problems.
1981 300SD...Too much propane = bent rods. Junked
1980 240D...Body fell off. Saved drivetrain and junked
1985 300D...No.2 and N2O = 16.35@85mph. Sold
1999 E300TD...3" exhaust with banks muffler, Hx-35, 215hp tune, IP resistor box, bad crankshaft snout
2005 E320 CDI...AMG injectors, EGR removed, mapping
Vids! http://www.youtube.com/user/silverado408
Pics! http://s776.photobucket.com/albums/yy42/...rformance/
ForcedInduction
03-17-2011, 05:48 PM
#2
No. The elements are different sizes which will set a check engine light.
03-17-2011, 07:29 PM
#3
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
I thought the '96's have the same engine as the '95's but the '97 - '99's are the same.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
03-18-2011, 08:07 AM
#4
96-97: Computerized non-turbo, 5.5mm elements.
98-99: Computerized turbo, 6mm elements.
This post was last modified: 03-18-2011, 08:07 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
03-18-2011, 08:07 AM
#4
95: All mechanical non-turbo, 5.5mm elements.
96-97: Computerized non-turbo, 5.5mm elements.
98-99: Computerized turbo, 6mm elements.
03-18-2011, 12:01 PM
#5
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
OK, maybe I'm getting the transmissions mixed up with the other technology. I know the 96 has the older 4 speed.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
03-19-2011, 01:48 AM
#7
(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead(03-17-2011, 05:48 PM)ForcedInduction No. The elements are different sizes which will set a check engine light.hi,
how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?
Hi guys,
It won`t see it.
I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.
(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead(03-17-2011, 05:48 PM)ForcedInduction No. The elements are different sizes which will set a check engine light.hi,
how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?
Hi guys,
It won`t see it.
I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.
03-19-2011, 03:07 AM
#8
Is it available to the US market?
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
On the subject of programing and remaping, how much does the remap software cost?
Is it available to the US market?
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
03-19-2011, 05:57 AM
#9
(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?The fuel rack position will be outside the range expected by the ECM for a given RPM and throttle input, especially idle.
(03-19-2011, 01:48 AM)pp d I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.Sorry, those two statements are contradictory. If the ECM uses the same rack travel map to control the engine and it doesn't "see" the difference in output, then it would automatically result in a large power increase with the stock map.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.
Based on your statement the ECM is "smart" enough to see the change and it reduces rack travel to limit power. By American OBD-II standards that should set a CEL for emissions controls.
This post was last modified: 03-19-2011, 05:58 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
03-19-2011, 05:57 AM
#9
(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?The fuel rack position will be outside the range expected by the ECM for a given RPM and throttle input, especially idle.
(03-19-2011, 01:48 AM)pp d I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.Sorry, those two statements are contradictory. If the ECM uses the same rack travel map to control the engine and it doesn't "see" the difference in output, then it would automatically result in a large power increase with the stock map.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.
Based on your statement the ECM is "smart" enough to see the change and it reduces rack travel to limit power. By American OBD-II standards that should set a CEL for emissions controls.
03-19-2011, 06:08 AM
#10
Maybe it went into limp mode, but limp mode with the larger elements was compareable to regular? Or possibly the switch from 6.5 to 7 IS close enough to the allowed margin of error that the ECU just goes about buisiness as normal, and learns the new correction factors?
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
I agree, large irregularities between the expected RPM vs rack position will throw it into limp.
Maybe it went into limp mode, but limp mode with the larger elements was compareable to regular? Or possibly the switch from 6.5 to 7 IS close enough to the allowed margin of error that the ECU just goes about buisiness as normal, and learns the new correction factors?
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
04-08-2011, 05:30 PM
#12
(03-19-2011, 05:57 AM)ForcedInduction(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?The fuel rack position will be outside the range expected by the ECM for a given RPM and throttle input, especially idle.
(03-19-2011, 01:48 AM)pp d I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.Sorry, those two statements are contradictory. If the ECM uses the same rack travel map to control the engine and it doesn't "see" the difference in output, then it would automatically result in a large power increase with the stock map.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.
Based on your statement the ECM is "smart" enough to see the change and it reduces rack travel to limit power. By American OBD-II standards that should set a CEL for emissions controls.
what do you always say forced? this is false.
well i will say no more.
I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.
(03-19-2011, 05:57 AM)ForcedInduction(03-18-2011, 05:14 PM)mantahead how will the ecm "see" bigger elements to show a fault?The fuel rack position will be outside the range expected by the ECM for a given RPM and throttle input, especially idle.
(03-19-2011, 01:48 AM)pp d I`ve done "electric pump" with 7 mm elements. It works.Sorry, those two statements are contradictory. If the ECM uses the same rack travel map to control the engine and it doesn't "see" the difference in output, then it would automatically result in a large power increase with the stock map.
Of course, the programming has to renew to get more power.
Based on your statement the ECM is "smart" enough to see the change and it reduces rack travel to limit power. By American OBD-II standards that should set a CEL for emissions controls.
what do you always say forced? this is false.
well i will say no more.
I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.
04-09-2011, 02:08 PM
#13
(04-08-2011, 05:30 PM)mantahead I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.
PP D made the pump?
Good to hear about 266 hp.
How does the engine idle/behave?
Are you happy with the elements and set up?
Tom
(04-08-2011, 05:30 PM)mantahead I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.
PP D made the pump?
Good to hear about 266 hp.
How does the engine idle/behave?
Are you happy with the elements and set up?
Tom
04-09-2011, 05:20 PM
#14
(04-09-2011, 02:08 PM)tomnikhi Tom,(04-08-2011, 05:30 PM)mantahead I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.
PP D made the pump?
Good to hear about 266 hp.
How does the engine idle/behave?
Are you happy with the elements and set up?
Tom
fitted your elements myself. I fitted pump to car without touching element adjustment and run it. I had a lumpy idle (NOT BECAUSE OF ELEMENTS) but because of elements not being adjusted and pump timing was retarded far too much. Next step, i have worked out a way to set up individual quanity with the pump on the engine. I worked out cyclinders 4 and 2 were supplying nearly twice as much fuel as the others. So when i got this adjusted the idle was sweet. I am very happy with the elements.
I know some of these pump guys are going to tell me i am wrong doing it this way but quanity is quanity and my results aren't telling me any lies as i can watch them with my own eyes. Although if i was trying to set up a governor it would be a different story as it would need to be done on a bench.
hopefully very soon when i get the ecu sorted out i will have a good bit more power and i will post up my dyno graphs. If i wasn't confident about my pump set up i wouldn't be pushing this engine.
wayne
(04-09-2011, 02:08 PM)tomnikhi Tom,(04-08-2011, 05:30 PM)mantahead I run my car today on rolling road with 7.5mm elements in electronic pump and holset hx35 with standard ecu, no resistors and no tricks.
So far i have 266hp with 1.77 bar of boost. So after everything i have read about boost cut and limp modes i can't believe that standard ecu let me go this far. I need more rpm to make more power. I need to sort out chips for remap as i,m having problems with them at the minute. Got chips and flashed them but they won't even start car. They cross referenced as the right ones but won't work.
PP D made the pump?
Good to hear about 266 hp.
How does the engine idle/behave?
Are you happy with the elements and set up?
Tom
fitted your elements myself. I fitted pump to car without touching element adjustment and run it. I had a lumpy idle (NOT BECAUSE OF ELEMENTS) but because of elements not being adjusted and pump timing was retarded far too much. Next step, i have worked out a way to set up individual quanity with the pump on the engine. I worked out cyclinders 4 and 2 were supplying nearly twice as much fuel as the others. So when i got this adjusted the idle was sweet. I am very happy with the elements.
I know some of these pump guys are going to tell me i am wrong doing it this way but quanity is quanity and my results aren't telling me any lies as i can watch them with my own eyes. Although if i was trying to set up a governor it would be a different story as it would need to be done on a bench.
hopefully very soon when i get the ecu sorted out i will have a good bit more power and i will post up my dyno graphs. If i wasn't confident about my pump set up i wouldn't be pushing this engine.
wayne
04-09-2011, 08:13 PM
#15
(04-09-2011, 05:20 PM)mantahead hi Tom,
fitted your elements myself. I fitted pump to car without touching element adjustment and run it. I had a lumpy idle (NOT BECAUSE OF ELEMENTS) but because of elements not being adjusted and pump timing was retarded far too much. Next step, i have worked out a way to set up individual quanity with the pump on the engine. I worked out cyclinders 4 and 2 were supplying nearly twice as much fuel as the others. So when i got this adjusted the idle was sweet. I am very happy with the elements.
I know some of these pump guys are going to tell me i am wrong doing it this way but quanity is quanity and my results aren't telling me any lies as i can watch them with my own eyes. Although if i was trying to set up a governor it would be a different story as it would need to be done on a bench.
hopefully very soon when i get the ecu sorted out i will have a good bit more power and i will post up my dyno graphs. If i wasn't confident about my pump set up i wouldn't be pushing this engine.
wayne
Wayne,
I'm going to do this myself. I had a shop lined up to do the work but they keep dicking around with me. I realize they have a commitment to their fleet customers but at least they could tell me to forget about it rather than stringing me along.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
(04-09-2011, 05:20 PM)mantahead hi Tom,
fitted your elements myself. I fitted pump to car without touching element adjustment and run it. I had a lumpy idle (NOT BECAUSE OF ELEMENTS) but because of elements not being adjusted and pump timing was retarded far too much. Next step, i have worked out a way to set up individual quanity with the pump on the engine. I worked out cyclinders 4 and 2 were supplying nearly twice as much fuel as the others. So when i got this adjusted the idle was sweet. I am very happy with the elements.
I know some of these pump guys are going to tell me i am wrong doing it this way but quanity is quanity and my results aren't telling me any lies as i can watch them with my own eyes. Although if i was trying to set up a governor it would be a different story as it would need to be done on a bench.
hopefully very soon when i get the ecu sorted out i will have a good bit more power and i will post up my dyno graphs. If i wasn't confident about my pump set up i wouldn't be pushing this engine.
wayne
Wayne,
I'm going to do this myself. I had a shop lined up to do the work but they keep dicking around with me. I realize they have a commitment to their fleet customers but at least they could tell me to forget about it rather than stringing me along.
1998 MB E300 - 194,000 miles. Current/future mods: 7.5mm pump elements, Holset HX40 Turbo feeding Eaton M90 supercharger through custom fabbed intake system. Aeroturbine muffler, scratch-built 4" stainless exhaust. EGR eliminated, ECM recalibrated, modified rack position feedback circuit. Porterfield RS brake pads, Bilstein sport shocks, VDO EGT, oil and boost gauges.
2000 Ford F250 - 150,000 miles. Current/future mods: DP Tuner 3 map chip, scratch-built high flow intake, high output IDM, open circuit fuel system, ball bearing turbo, South Bend full metal clutch, slotted and drilled rotors. Autometer Sport Comp EGT and boost gauges.
04-10-2011, 01:25 AM
#16
The ECM doesn't know about element delivery, it only know rack movement and position, inbuilt map is for standard elements.
So it's fully possible to change the elements and it just works, but if you change too large elements the closed and part throttle injection must be changed.
Anyway i don't see the point to change elements but not touch the maps, it's pretty easy to adjust the maps anyway, but if it's too hard go with mechanical IP.
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
Trust forced he knows everything
The ECM doesn't know about element delivery, it only know rack movement and position, inbuilt map is for standard elements.
So it's fully possible to change the elements and it just works, but if you change too large elements the closed and part throttle injection must be changed.
Anyway i don't see the point to change elements but not touch the maps, it's pretty easy to adjust the maps anyway, but if it's too hard go with mechanical IP.
- MB w126 300SD Superturbo (US) -83, Mods: OM617A with custom head work, Master Power Turbo 802332, PP-Diesel custom 7mm IP, China intercooler, KKD-Motorsport exhaust manifold, DIY intake manifold, Coolmist Waterinjection, DIY Supermeter display/datalog with PLX Wideband Lambda, Siekkinen custom 722.3 autotrans, Elbe Performance LSD, Green Filter cold air intake, straight 3" exhaust with two dual 2.5" outputs
- MB r129 500SL AMG (JDM) -94
Full AMG bodykit, full JDM features, modified ECU and exhaust
- MB w123 250E-TT (JDM) -85
Full 1JZ-GTE twinturbo conversion, full aircon, custom china cooler, custom IC-pipes, custom sport recaro interior, custom 3-piece JDM rims
04-11-2011, 03:27 PM
#17
Wayne,
I'm going to do this myself. I had a shop lined up to do the work but they keep dicking around with me. I realize they have a commitment to their fleet customers but at least they could tell me to forget about it rather than stringing me along.
[/quote]hi,
good man, do you know how to change elements?
what is your modified rack position feddback circuit?
wayne
Wayne,
I'm going to do this myself. I had a shop lined up to do the work but they keep dicking around with me. I realize they have a commitment to their fleet customers but at least they could tell me to forget about it rather than stringing me along.
[/quote]hi,
good man, do you know how to change elements?
what is your modified rack position feddback circuit?
wayne
yankneck696
04-11-2011, 04:15 PM #18JTY... Do you have any info on remapping for the average person to do?
Ed
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