VE Pumps for OM engines
VE Pumps for OM engines
04-20-2011, 03:43 PM
#1
Most likely candidate is the VW D24T (used in volvo mostly):
VE6/10F2400L116
VOLVO
D24T
0 460 406 018
From my PE experience I see this is a 6cyl 10mm element rated at 2400rpm (assuming half speed of crank)==4800 rpm max. L116 is the governor? Is the max rpm correct? Seems low. I see the VE pump for OM602 mercedes engine is:
0 460 415 992
6020708301
VE5/11E1900R641
MERCEDES-BENZ
OM 602.980 DELA
This would indicate as 11mm element. I guess the RPM is notated differently as the M pump for instance is 360 * 2 * 10 == 7200 max rpm.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
This thread is for the use of a VE pump inplace of a PE pump on a om603 as an alternative to Myna.
Most likely candidate is the VW D24T (used in volvo mostly):
VE6/10F2400L116
VOLVO
D24T
0 460 406 018
From my PE experience I see this is a 6cyl 10mm element rated at 2400rpm (assuming half speed of crank)==4800 rpm max. L116 is the governor? Is the max rpm correct? Seems low. I see the VE pump for OM602 mercedes engine is:
0 460 415 992
6020708301
VE5/11E1900R641
MERCEDES-BENZ
OM 602.980 DELA
This would indicate as 11mm element. I guess the RPM is notated differently as the M pump for instance is 360 * 2 * 10 == 7200 max rpm.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-20-2011, 05:12 PM
#4
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
Less stroke is my guess, the cam plate looks to only move ~ 5 to 6mm.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
04-20-2011, 08:14 PM
#5
(04-20-2011, 05:12 PM)300D50 Less stroke is my guess, the cam plate looks to only move ~ 5 to 6mm.
Precisely what I thought too.
VE6/12F1250R419-4
Anyone want to guess what this is from?
First gen Dodge cummins diesel. Price ranges from 2-800. If something like this works I am going to be so effing happy.
This post was last modified: 04-20-2011, 08:17 PM by winmutt.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-20-2011, 05:12 PM)300D50 Less stroke is my guess, the cam plate looks to only move ~ 5 to 6mm.
Precisely what I thought too.
VE6/12F1250R419-4
Anyone want to guess what this is from?
First gen Dodge cummins diesel. Price ranges from 2-800. If something like this works I am going to be so effing happy.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-21-2011, 04:32 AM
#6
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
It looks like the only thing stopping this from becoming a reality is the adapter collar on the input that mates to the splined gear on the timing chain. If I can find that part number I am willing to give this a try.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
![[Image: 001.JPG]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/2.9l%20sprinter%20ve%20pump/001.JPG)
![[Image: 002.JPG]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/2.9l%20sprinter%20ve%20pump/002.JPG)
![[Image: 003.JPG]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/2.9l%20sprinter%20ve%20pump/003.JPG)
04-21-2011, 11:57 AM
#8
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Can anyone with BOSCH connections find out about the interfacing plate on this? I will take measurements tonight but it seems possible that a simple collar could be fabbed up to mount on the seemingly standard VE pump (tapering nose).
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-21-2011, 12:36 PM
#9
(04-21-2011, 11:57 AM)winmutt Can anyone with BOSCH connections find out about the interfacing plate on this? I will take measurements tonight but it seems possible that a simple collar could be fabbed up to mount on the seemingly standard VE pump (tapering nose).
My pump is same like on the pictures. You can use this adapter , but you need the sprocket too, because the VE pump using a gear other than the inline pumps. The injection timing is adjusted by ip pump itself.
OM662.910 aftermarket turbo
(04-21-2011, 11:57 AM)winmutt Can anyone with BOSCH connections find out about the interfacing plate on this? I will take measurements tonight but it seems possible that a simple collar could be fabbed up to mount on the seemingly standard VE pump (tapering nose).
My pump is same like on the pictures. You can use this adapter , but you need the sprocket too, because the VE pump using a gear other than the inline pumps. The injection timing is adjusted by ip pump itself.
OM662.910 aftermarket turbo
04-21-2011, 09:45 PM
#10
Is it available for Mercedes engines?
1977 300D for parts? Just a pile of rust but still runs!
1984 190D 2.2 - gone to better home
1987 Dodge Maxivan with OM603 and Goran’s 7.5 backroads terror
1987 300TD - tinker toy
1989 300TE - parts
1991 300TE - backyards decor
1991 300TD - Barrote’s 7.5
1992 300TD - semi-STD(Goran modified 7.5 ip but still with factory turbo+at)
1998 E300TD - dd with DSL1 now
1998 ML320 - snow ride
2014 Sprinter 2500 - Malone’s tune + pedal box
What kind of sprocket have you used? What is the source of it?
Is it available for Mercedes engines?
1977 300D for parts? Just a pile of rust but still runs!
1984 190D 2.2 - gone to better home
1987 Dodge Maxivan with OM603 and Goran’s 7.5 backroads terror
1987 300TD - tinker toy
1989 300TE - parts
1991 300TE - backyards decor
1991 300TD - Barrote’s 7.5
1992 300TD - semi-STD(Goran modified 7.5 ip but still with factory turbo+at)
1998 E300TD - dd with DSL1 now
1998 ML320 - snow ride
2014 Sprinter 2500 - Malone’s tune + pedal box
04-22-2011, 02:17 AM
#13
The stroke of the plunjer in a VE is usualy arond 3mm,most less, some more.
The biggest problem of a VE is filling the plunjer on higher rpm, use a liftpump to enhance the filling.
There is a ton off info on moding the pump to get more rpm an power off it, google is your friend. that is if you need more power
Do you need the VE pump to bee electronic? If not i would use one from a cummins engine. It has a 12mm plunjer.
The stroke of the plunjer in a VE is usualy arond 3mm,most less, some more.
The biggest problem of a VE is filling the plunjer on higher rpm, use a liftpump to enhance the filling.
There is a ton off info on moding the pump to get more rpm an power off it, google is your friend. that is if you need more power
04-22-2011, 08:12 AM
#14
(04-21-2011, 12:36 PM)devtonAre you sure the sprockets are different? Any idea on the part number for the correct one? the 12v cummins pumps are fairly cheap and an upgrade from the sprinter (element size). Does anyone know what kind of quantity is delivered at WOT on the 12v cummins pump?(04-21-2011, 11:57 AM)winmutt Can anyone with BOSCH connections find out about the interfacing plate on this? I will take measurements tonight but it seems possible that a simple collar could be fabbed up to mount on the seemingly standard VE pump (tapering nose).
My pump is same like on the pictures. You can use this adapter , but you need the sprocket too, because the VE pump using a gear other than the inline pumps. The injection timing is adjusted by ip pump itself.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-21-2011, 12:36 PM)devtonAre you sure the sprockets are different? Any idea on the part number for the correct one? the 12v cummins pumps are fairly cheap and an upgrade from the sprinter (element size). Does anyone know what kind of quantity is delivered at WOT on the 12v cummins pump?(04-21-2011, 11:57 AM)winmutt Can anyone with BOSCH connections find out about the interfacing plate on this? I will take measurements tonight but it seems possible that a simple collar could be fabbed up to mount on the seemingly standard VE pump (tapering nose).
My pump is same like on the pictures. You can use this adapter , but you need the sprocket too, because the VE pump using a gear other than the inline pumps. The injection timing is adjusted by ip pump itself.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-22-2011, 08:59 AM
#16
Some Bosch literature on VE pump.
http://www.bosch-automotive.com/en/fachl.../u222e.pdf
Diesel engine management series on VE pump
http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pum..._Pumps.pdf
This post was last modified: 04-22-2011, 09:08 AM by winmutt.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Tomnik : 0460 426 205 VE6/12F1250R419-4 I believe.
Some Bosch literature on VE pump.
http://www.bosch-automotive.com/en/fachl.../u222e.pdf
Diesel engine management series on VE pump
http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pum..._Pumps.pdf
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-22-2011, 09:13 AM
#17
Tom
(04-22-2011, 08:59 AM)winmutt Tomnik : 0460 426 205 VE6/12F1250R419-4 I believe.
Some Bosch literature on VE pump.
http://www.bosch-automotive.com/en/fachl.../u222e.pdf
Diesel engine management series on VE pump
http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pum..._Pumps.pdf
85-86 ccm/1000 max. with boost.
Tom
(04-22-2011, 08:59 AM)winmutt Tomnik : 0460 426 205 VE6/12F1250R419-4 I believe.
Some Bosch literature on VE pump.
http://www.bosch-automotive.com/en/fachl.../u222e.pdf
Diesel engine management series on VE pump
http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pum..._Pumps.pdf
04-22-2011, 09:49 AM
#18
http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pump/-Rebuild.html
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
How to dissassemble/rebuild VE pump :
http://gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosch_Pump/-Rebuild.html
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-22-2011, 09:53 AM
#19
(04-22-2011, 09:13 AM)tomnik 85-86 ccm/1000 max. with boost.
That is kind of disappointing. Is that guideline for tuning the pump or the physical max? Any idea about the 14mm pumps?
What about the 602 and d24t pumps?
VE6/10F2400L116
VOLVO
D24T
0 460 406 018
0 460 415 992
6020708301
VE5/11E1900R641
MERCEDES-BENZ
OM 602.980 DELA
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-22-2011, 09:13 AM)tomnik 85-86 ccm/1000 max. with boost.
That is kind of disappointing. Is that guideline for tuning the pump or the physical max? Any idea about the 14mm pumps?
What about the 602 and d24t pumps?
VE6/10F2400L116
VOLVO
D24T
0 460 406 018
0 460 415 992
6020708301
VE5/11E1900R641
MERCEDES-BENZ
OM 602.980 DELA
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-22-2011, 10:23 AM
#21
I am assuming that the M 60x pump is the same output at the 602 VE in which case the cummins pump would be an upgrade but nothing to write home about. I have read that there are other cam plates as well as some magical 14mm pump. Still with the cummins pump as cheap as they are ($150) if I can sort out the input interface this might be a super cheap upgrade/replacement....
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
And the max for the M/MW pumps? I see in diesel meken's vid hes putting out 117 and I have heard 130 from the myna pumps.
I am assuming that the M 60x pump is the same output at the 602 VE in which case the cummins pump would be an upgrade but nothing to write home about. I have read that there are other cam plates as well as some magical 14mm pump. Still with the cummins pump as cheap as they are ($150) if I can sort out the input interface this might be a super cheap upgrade/replacement....
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-22-2011, 01:41 PM
#23
(04-22-2011, 10:34 AM)tomnik Go for a Cummins pump, install it and report back.
It is the same thing: larger plunger=better.
Tom
I am willing to bet the input on the sprinter VE pump is just a bolt on type thing. Do you have access to a Bosch parts catalog?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-22-2011, 10:34 AM)tomnik Go for a Cummins pump, install it and report back.
It is the same thing: larger plunger=better.
Tom
I am willing to bet the input on the sprinter VE pump is just a bolt on type thing. Do you have access to a Bosch parts catalog?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-22-2011, 07:16 PM
#24
There is a good bit of info on the VE pumps on this site, look at the first gen trucks for the ve pumps.
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/
There is a good bit of info on the VE pumps on this site, look at the first gen trucks for the ve pumps.
04-22-2011, 11:15 PM
#25
(04-22-2011, 01:41 PM)winmutt I am willing to bet the input on the sprinter VE pump is just a bolt on type thing. Do you have access to a Bosch parts catalog?
for sure you need the chain sprocket of the sprinter as PP D said.
Let me know what info you need and I can try to find out.
(did you see the cables on the Sprinter pump?)
Tom
(04-22-2011, 01:41 PM)winmutt I am willing to bet the input on the sprinter VE pump is just a bolt on type thing. Do you have access to a Bosch parts catalog?
for sure you need the chain sprocket of the sprinter as PP D said.
Let me know what info you need and I can try to find out.
(did you see the cables on the Sprinter pump?)
Tom
04-23-2011, 06:57 AM
#26
(04-22-2011, 11:15 PM)tomnik [quote='winmutt' pid='28666' dateline='1303497681']
(did you see the cables on the Sprinter pump?)
Tom
Assume you are talking about the wires? The cummins is mechanically controlled.
I am stuck on a lack of info/access to one of these pumps. We need to find someone with access to the Bosch parts diagrams for the sprinter pump or access to one.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-22-2011, 11:15 PM)tomnik [quote='winmutt' pid='28666' dateline='1303497681']
(did you see the cables on the Sprinter pump?)
Tom
Assume you are talking about the wires? The cummins is mechanically controlled.
I am stuck on a lack of info/access to one of these pumps. We need to find someone with access to the Bosch parts diagrams for the sprinter pump or access to one.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-23-2011, 08:45 PM
#29
(04-23-2011, 10:39 AM)Einar What would the benefit for using a VE instead of a M?
Looks like more fuel for much cheaper than a Myna pump. The two downsides I'm seeing at the moment, are the adapter collar and max rpm. I'm willing to bet that neither are going to be a downside for long though!
I'm not sure about the VE, but I know there are governer spring kits for the P pumps.82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.
84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine!
(04-23-2011, 10:39 AM)Einar What would the benefit for using a VE instead of a M?
Looks like more fuel for much cheaper than a Myna pump. The two downsides I'm seeing at the moment, are the adapter collar and max rpm. I'm willing to bet that neither are going to be a downside for long though!
I'm not sure about the VE, but I know there are governer spring kits for the P pumps.
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.
84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine!
04-24-2011, 04:51 PM
#30
Just for what its with most dodge owners that want serious performance want the p pump. the ve is considered to be weak. All your pumping is by one element. I still am using the ve, although I did lose one in Oklahoma, in the middle of nowhere. I'm not saying not to try it, just wondering if it really is the best choice.
govener springs are available for the ve, at least for dodge trucks. Stock rpm 2500, highest spring available I think is around 4000, maybe 4200.
Just for what its with most dodge owners that want serious performance want the p pump. the ve is considered to be weak. All your pumping is by one element. I still am using the ve, although I did lose one in Oklahoma, in the middle of nowhere. I'm not saying not to try it, just wondering if it really is the best choice.
04-24-2011, 05:04 PM
#31
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
Don't you need a whole new distributor head in order to swap to a larger plunger? Far as I can tell, it looks to be that they are matched parts...
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
04-24-2011, 06:06 PM
#32
That Sprinter pump above is not a 'VE' type, and its not mechanical control....
Its a 'VP' type--A 'Electronic fly-by-wire' pump. a VP37 to be exact....
To fit a Cummins or any other Mechanical EP-VE axial-plunger pump in place of a PES Inline, you have a couple of major issues.
Do you stick with the M.B. Timing-Device or go with the replacement pump's internal timing-device
--Replacement pump's timing will be set for donor engine and would not directly suit the MB engine, without altering the curve...
--So, you go for MB timing device...
That means you must dis-able the new pump's internal timing device, and account for this in the initial timing/pump postion setting--How do you determine this?....
Will the front casting of the VP Sprinter pump and the shaft/spline part remove from the Sprinter VP and fit a Cummins VE--I dont think so....
--Looks to be part of the pump casting to me...
--If this was an easy alteration I'm sure Myna would have made available an EP-VE to fit the O.M. series and not messed with the PES at all, as there are so many different hydraulic-heads and plunger sizes available and the EP-VE is much more adaptable to different engine demands because of this, and those VP37 on Sprinters have been around in Europe for donkey's years!....
![[Image: 300TDnoplate.jpg]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/alastairhcii/300TDnoplate.jpg)
Alastair E
04-24-2011, 06:06 PM #32Hmm....
That Sprinter pump above is not a 'VE' type, and its not mechanical control....
Its a 'VP' type--A 'Electronic fly-by-wire' pump. a VP37 to be exact....
To fit a Cummins or any other Mechanical EP-VE axial-plunger pump in place of a PES Inline, you have a couple of major issues.
Do you stick with the M.B. Timing-Device or go with the replacement pump's internal timing-device
--Replacement pump's timing will be set for donor engine and would not directly suit the MB engine, without altering the curve...
--So, you go for MB timing device...
That means you must dis-able the new pump's internal timing device, and account for this in the initial timing/pump postion setting--How do you determine this?....
Will the front casting of the VP Sprinter pump and the shaft/spline part remove from the Sprinter VP and fit a Cummins VE--I dont think so....
--Looks to be part of the pump casting to me...
--If this was an easy alteration I'm sure Myna would have made available an EP-VE to fit the O.M. series and not messed with the PES at all, as there are so many different hydraulic-heads and plunger sizes available and the EP-VE is much more adaptable to different engine demands because of this, and those VP37 on Sprinters have been around in Europe for donkey's years!....
04-24-2011, 07:16 PM
#33
(04-24-2011, 06:06 PM)Alastair E Hmm....
That Sprinter pump above is not a 'VE' type, and its not mechanical control....
Its a 'VP' type--A 'Electronic fly-by-wire' pump. a VP37 to be exact....
To fit a Cummins or any other Mechanical EP-VE axial-plunger pump in place of a PES Inline, you have a couple of major issues.
Do you stick with the M.B. Timing-Device or go with the replacement pump's internal timing-device
--Replacement pump's timing will be set for donor engine and would not directly suit the MB engine, without altering the curve...
--So, you go for MB timing device...
That means you must dis-able the new pump's internal timing device, and account for this in the initial timing/pump postion setting--How do you determine this?....
Will the front casting of the VP Sprinter pump and the shaft/spline part remove from the Sprinter VP and fit a Cummins VE--I dont think so....
--Looks to be part of the pump casting to me...
--If this was an easy alteration I'm sure Myna would have made available an EP-VE to fit the O.M. series and not messed with the PES at all, as there are so many different hydraulic-heads and plunger sizes available and the EP-VE is much more adaptable to different engine demands because of this, and those VP37 on Sprinters have been around in Europe for donkey's years!....
This is clearly a VE pump because of the the flange and styke. The VP pumps all have a rectangular mounting flange. VE can have many additional modules, some being electronic. A more authoritative reference : http://www.dieselevante.it/fuelpumps/ind...2+VE+R+641
Regarding the front part, you can see in the first picture is is clearly not case into the pump itself.
As far as timing, I don't see what you are talking about. There are 5 or 6 cylinders they are all going to be timed the same no matter what engine or what car. The actual injection curve may be different but for our purposes that will not matter as much (with the exception of using the 2 stage injectors). Shorter injection periods is a GOOD thing.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-24-2011, 06:06 PM)Alastair E Hmm....
That Sprinter pump above is not a 'VE' type, and its not mechanical control....
Its a 'VP' type--A 'Electronic fly-by-wire' pump. a VP37 to be exact....
To fit a Cummins or any other Mechanical EP-VE axial-plunger pump in place of a PES Inline, you have a couple of major issues.
Do you stick with the M.B. Timing-Device or go with the replacement pump's internal timing-device
--Replacement pump's timing will be set for donor engine and would not directly suit the MB engine, without altering the curve...
--So, you go for MB timing device...
That means you must dis-able the new pump's internal timing device, and account for this in the initial timing/pump postion setting--How do you determine this?....
Will the front casting of the VP Sprinter pump and the shaft/spline part remove from the Sprinter VP and fit a Cummins VE--I dont think so....
--Looks to be part of the pump casting to me...
--If this was an easy alteration I'm sure Myna would have made available an EP-VE to fit the O.M. series and not messed with the PES at all, as there are so many different hydraulic-heads and plunger sizes available and the EP-VE is much more adaptable to different engine demands because of this, and those VP37 on Sprinters have been around in Europe for donkey's years!....
This is clearly a VE pump because of the the flange and styke. The VP pumps all have a rectangular mounting flange. VE can have many additional modules, some being electronic. A more authoritative reference : http://www.dieselevante.it/fuelpumps/ind...2+VE+R+641
Regarding the front part, you can see in the first picture is is clearly not case into the pump itself.
As far as timing, I don't see what you are talking about. There are 5 or 6 cylinders they are all going to be timed the same no matter what engine or what car. The actual injection curve may be different but for our purposes that will not matter as much (with the exception of using the 2 stage injectors). Shorter injection periods is a GOOD thing.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-24-2011, 07:52 PM
#34
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
He means advance/retard of timing based on RPM, not phasing of the cylinders.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
04-24-2011, 11:30 PM
#35
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
04-24-2011, 11:30 PM #35Yeah the 617 pump has a timing device in the sprocket or something that advances timing with rpm correct?
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
04-25-2011, 03:17 AM
#36
The pump from Nissan RD28T(Patrol 2.8TD), it looks very similar, but not shure about manufacturer. Denso-made VE-pump
Diesel parts(chinese):http://dieselparts.en.ecplaza.net/product.asp
This post was last modified: 04-25-2011, 04:56 AM by Einar.
04-25-2011, 03:47 AM
#37
The only thing that would make sense is to go for a pump that is made for an output that fits to our performance ideas.
The only option then is the Cummins pump.
Using a pump from a similar displacement/hp engine is not enough except you change the plunger. Larger plunger might want a different pump body as done on VW/Audi. This is done by VW guys with 1.6l engines by using parts from (mechanical) TDI pumps...
But still not enough fuel for us.
Finding such a plunger or even fabricate one for a more or less direct exchange option (Sprinter) could be difficult.
Many of such modified pumps on VW break because of the additional load on the IP cam.
Getting a Cummins pump for cheap and installing it on a 603/606 engine could be the easiest way.
Tom
I still don't understand what is the intention to go for a Vx pump.
The only thing that would make sense is to go for a pump that is made for an output that fits to our performance ideas.
The only option then is the Cummins pump.
Using a pump from a similar displacement/hp engine is not enough except you change the plunger. Larger plunger might want a different pump body as done on VW/Audi. This is done by VW guys with 1.6l engines by using parts from (mechanical) TDI pumps...
But still not enough fuel for us.
Finding such a plunger or even fabricate one for a more or less direct exchange option (Sprinter) could be difficult.
Many of such modified pumps on VW break because of the additional load on the IP cam.
Getting a Cummins pump for cheap and installing it on a 603/606 engine could be the easiest way.
Tom
04-25-2011, 08:58 AM
#38
(04-25-2011, 03:47 AM)tomnik Getting a Cummins pump for cheap and installing it on a 603/606 engine could be the easiest way.
Yes. For the Cummins guys there is a 14mm pump upgrade. Not sure what the output volumes are on that.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-25-2011, 03:47 AM)tomnik Getting a Cummins pump for cheap and installing it on a 603/606 engine could be the easiest way.
Yes. For the Cummins guys there is a 14mm pump upgrade. Not sure what the output volumes are on that.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-25-2011, 09:31 AM
#39
![[Image: sprinter.ve.nocollar.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/2.9l%20sprinter%20ve%20pump/sprinter.ve.nocollar.jpg)
![[Image: sprinter.ve.nocollar.2.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/2.9l%20sprinter%20ve%20pump/sprinter.ve.nocollar.2.jpg)
![[Image: sprinter.ve.nocollar.3.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/2.9l%20sprinter%20ve%20pump/sprinter.ve.nocollar.3.jpg)
Here is the parts diagram from the russian catalog :
![[Image: AE877F7B2EC791DDDA1D90BBE389E9F0.gif]](http://img.partscatalog.ru/MB/A/AE877F7B2EC791DDDA1D90BBE389E9F0.gif)
However I cant find a specific reference to the timing part that goes on the front. Anyone have access to the european EPC? I believe the missing information is in 07-060.
I found this:
![[Image: 02F9B5DFD22E5170185E9EF9CF976D3A.gif]](http://img.partscatalog.ru/MB/0/02F9B5DFD22E5170185E9EF9CF976D3A.gif)
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/t...i_6UshdRGA
All the parts listed!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This post was last modified: 04-25-2011, 10:32 AM by winmutt.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
More pics. These I found on ebay.de without the collar on the front. I do believe we have a win here folx.
Here is the parts diagram from the russian catalog :
However I cant find a specific reference to the timing part that goes on the front. Anyone have access to the european EPC? I believe the missing information is in 07-060.
I found this:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/t...i_6UshdRGA
All the parts listed!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-25-2011, 09:33 AM
#40
(04-25-2011, 08:58 AM)winmutt Yes. For the Cummins guys there is a 14mm pump upgrade. Not sure what the output volumes are on that.
even the stock output seems enough for our small engines.
In first step it should be o.k. to use a stock cummins.
The task is in installing it...
04-25-2011, 10:25 AM
#41
I know the MW pump is designed for a higher injection pressure than the M was, so why not use it to get better atomization and an even shorter injection duration? At least till we blow out the flame or slice the prechamber ball in half...
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
Stupid question, but what about setting the pop pressure higher and running 2-stage injectors?
I know the MW pump is designed for a higher injection pressure than the M was, so why not use it to get better atomization and an even shorter injection duration? At least till we blow out the flame or slice the prechamber ball in half...
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
04-25-2011, 10:31 AM
#42
(04-25-2011, 10:25 AM)300D50 Stupid question, but what about setting the pop pressure higher and running 2-stage injectors?
I know the MW pump is designed for a higher injection pressure than the M was, so why not use it to get better atomization and an even shorter injection duration? At least till we blow out the flame or slice the prechamber ball in half...
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thre...hlight=aaz
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thre...hlight=aaz
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thre...hlight=aaz
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-25-2011, 10:25 AM)300D50 Stupid question, but what about setting the pop pressure higher and running 2-stage injectors?
I know the MW pump is designed for a higher injection pressure than the M was, so why not use it to get better atomization and an even shorter injection duration? At least till we blow out the flame or slice the prechamber ball in half...
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thre...hlight=aaz
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thre...hlight=aaz
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thre...hlight=aaz
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-25-2011, 10:43 AM
#43
I remeber studying the Bosch VE pumps in college many moons ago when they first became popular in the 1.5&1.6 litre VW Golf diesels and one characteristic that was inherent in the VE pump is that it made the engine very lively in comparison to an engine driven by an inline pump....So on that basis alone it will be interesting to see how it transforms an OM603/606.
Tha main advantage of the inline pump was always it durability and its ability to handle a cupful of water/contaminated fuel once in a while,without any drastic breakdowns or failures occurring....
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
04-25-2011, 10:43 AM #43A little bit of work to be done on the injector pipes as well....but as Tomnik says,fitting a Stock Cummins unit and monitoring the results would be a worthwhile exercise.
I remeber studying the Bosch VE pumps in college many moons ago when they first became popular in the 1.5&1.6 litre VW Golf diesels and one characteristic that was inherent in the VE pump is that it made the engine very lively in comparison to an engine driven by an inline pump....So on that basis alone it will be interesting to see how it transforms an OM603/606.
Tha main advantage of the inline pump was always it durability and its ability to handle a cupful of water/contaminated fuel once in a while,without any drastic breakdowns or failures occurring....
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
04-25-2011, 10:45 AM
#44
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Can anyone help me source the timing parts from #5 to the left in the diagram above? I've asked all the pump sellers on ebay.de and co.uk.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-25-2011, 11:08 AM
#45
(04-25-2011, 10:45 AM)winmutt Can anyone help me source the timing parts from #5 to the left in the diagram above? I've asked all the pump sellers on ebay.de and co.uk.
you need part# 41 (sprocket).
The rest towards the pump seems to be included in some auctions.
The toothed shaft end seems to be similar to the inline pumps.
There is no timing device visible. This is IN the pump!.
The connection shaft-sprocket is fix connection.
Tom
(04-25-2011, 10:45 AM)winmutt Can anyone help me source the timing parts from #5 to the left in the diagram above? I've asked all the pump sellers on ebay.de and co.uk.
you need part# 41 (sprocket).
The rest towards the pump seems to be included in some auctions.
The toothed shaft end seems to be similar to the inline pumps.
There is no timing device visible. This is IN the pump!.
The connection shaft-sprocket is fix connection.
Tom
04-25-2011, 11:26 AM
#46
(04-25-2011, 11:08 AM)tomnik There is no timing device visible. This is IN the pump!.
The connection shaft-sprocket is fix connection.
Tom
I see. There has to be some kind of advancing mechanism on the cummins pump. To save cost and shipping I am trying to avoid purchasing a whole sprinter pump. We shall see if I can pick up the rest of the parts...
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-25-2011, 11:08 AM)tomnik There is no timing device visible. This is IN the pump!.
The connection shaft-sprocket is fix connection.
Tom
I see. There has to be some kind of advancing mechanism on the cummins pump. To save cost and shipping I am trying to avoid purchasing a whole sprinter pump. We shall see if I can pick up the rest of the parts...
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-25-2011, 01:40 PM
#47
(04-25-2011, 11:26 AM)winmutt I see. There has to be some kind of advancing mechanism on the cummins pump.http://www.dieselbombers.com/1st-generat...ation.html
Quote:Vane pump fuel pressure lubricates moving parts in the rest of the pump, supplies fuel to the distributor plunger for the injectors, and controls injection timing advance mechanism.
Quote:Injection Timing Advance
Near the end of each compression stroke, diesel fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber. Injection must continue well past piston TDC in order to burn the necessary amount of fuel to provide engine power.
As engine speed increases, stroke timing becomes shorter and injection timing becomes longer. Burning must begin sooner to ensure that peak combustion pressures still occur at the most efficient point after TDC.
Diesel injection timing is advanced by a hydraulic piston in the injection pump:
As engine speed increases, fuel pressure from the vane pump also increases. Vane pump pressure pushes the injection advance piston to the left against the spring so that the roller housing turns slightly.
Since the cam plate is turning in the opposite direction, the "ramps" on the cam plate engage the roller sooner whenever the injection advance piston moves to the left. This means that the distributor plunger beings injection sooner.
The injection timing advance piston is located in the bottom of the injection pump body:
The only cold start and warm-up device necessary for the diesel fuel system is a control which advances injection timing at idle and during low speed running.
A lever turns a cam which pushes the hydraulic piston to the left. This advances injection time about 5 degrees.
This injection advance provides more time for the fuel to burn, which improves performance and prevents smoking during cold starts and warm-up.
The cold start cam does not advance the complete range of injection timing. Above 2200 rpm, the piston operates normally and does not contact the cam:
The shorter injection times makes sense as the plunger does not have to move linearly as far as with the inline pumps.
![[Image: advancegraph.jpg]](http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b235/jimbo486/cars%20and%20trucks/Robert%20Bosch%20VE%20Pump/advancegraph.jpg)
Anyone know if this is similar to the advance on the inlines? I dont see a graph for the inlines but I found some documentation that advance could be as much as 20' at max rpm which is the same as that graph!
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-25-2011, 11:26 AM)winmutt I see. There has to be some kind of advancing mechanism on the cummins pump.http://www.dieselbombers.com/1st-generat...ation.html
Quote:Vane pump fuel pressure lubricates moving parts in the rest of the pump, supplies fuel to the distributor plunger for the injectors, and controls injection timing advance mechanism.
Quote:Injection Timing Advance
Near the end of each compression stroke, diesel fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber. Injection must continue well past piston TDC in order to burn the necessary amount of fuel to provide engine power.
As engine speed increases, stroke timing becomes shorter and injection timing becomes longer. Burning must begin sooner to ensure that peak combustion pressures still occur at the most efficient point after TDC.
Diesel injection timing is advanced by a hydraulic piston in the injection pump:
As engine speed increases, fuel pressure from the vane pump also increases. Vane pump pressure pushes the injection advance piston to the left against the spring so that the roller housing turns slightly.
Since the cam plate is turning in the opposite direction, the "ramps" on the cam plate engage the roller sooner whenever the injection advance piston moves to the left. This means that the distributor plunger beings injection sooner.
The injection timing advance piston is located in the bottom of the injection pump body:
The only cold start and warm-up device necessary for the diesel fuel system is a control which advances injection timing at idle and during low speed running.
A lever turns a cam which pushes the hydraulic piston to the left. This advances injection time about 5 degrees.
This injection advance provides more time for the fuel to burn, which improves performance and prevents smoking during cold starts and warm-up.
The cold start cam does not advance the complete range of injection timing. Above 2200 rpm, the piston operates normally and does not contact the cam:
The shorter injection times makes sense as the plunger does not have to move linearly as far as with the inline pumps.
Anyone know if this is similar to the advance on the inlines? I dont see a graph for the inlines but I found some documentation that advance could be as much as 20' at max rpm which is the same as that graph!
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-26-2011, 09:59 AM
#48
(04-22-2011, 10:14 AM)tomnik 0 460 415 992
max. 73 ccm
5 cyl. electronic
0 460 406 018 volvo: at 0.75 bar boost: max. 45 ccm
6 cyl.
Tom
Here is some "knowhow" from the dieseltech!
This is NOT comparable figures, the amount of fuel that is in the testsheet is depending of the testinjectors & pipes in the bench. For example the 992 pump is to be run against 116 injectors and 1,8 x350 pipes, 018 pump is to be run against 000 injector and 2x840 pipes.
Difference in amount of fuel is so high and not comparable.
For example, the 116 testinjector has 0,6mm orifice plate and 210 bar opening pressure, 000 injector has 150 bar opening pressure, no orifice plate.
If you calibrate a 992 after the testsheet with 000 ( wrong injectors)or even only wrong pipes, the engine goes bananas.
So just compare fuelamount is not the way to go.
IF you are going to put in a VE pump on a OM 603 for example, the pump must bee adjusted according to the testsheet for this engine. The things you can use in a sprinterpump is the distributor head & camplate that is a match. Put it in a mechanical housing and work with it in the testbench until it works OK.
Advanace piston in the VE pump is to be used, but you can not use the gear with advance that is when you have inlinepump, you need the sprocket from the sprinter, otherwise there can be a conflict with the advance.
If you are intend to go over 3500 rpm, the 12 & 14 mm rotorhead is no good, they do overfuel at low rpm and gives less fuel over 3500 rpm. 11 mm is the ideal size, nice curve on fuel up to over 5000 rpm.
12 mm is for agriculture pumps, high tourqe at low rpm.
dieselmeken
04-26-2011, 09:59 AM #48(04-22-2011, 10:14 AM)tomnik 0 460 415 992
max. 73 ccm
5 cyl. electronic
0 460 406 018 volvo: at 0.75 bar boost: max. 45 ccm
6 cyl.
Tom
Here is some "knowhow" from the dieseltech!
This is NOT comparable figures, the amount of fuel that is in the testsheet is depending of the testinjectors & pipes in the bench. For example the 992 pump is to be run against 116 injectors and 1,8 x350 pipes, 018 pump is to be run against 000 injector and 2x840 pipes.
Difference in amount of fuel is so high and not comparable.
For example, the 116 testinjector has 0,6mm orifice plate and 210 bar opening pressure, 000 injector has 150 bar opening pressure, no orifice plate.
If you calibrate a 992 after the testsheet with 000 ( wrong injectors)or even only wrong pipes, the engine goes bananas.
So just compare fuelamount is not the way to go.
IF you are going to put in a VE pump on a OM 603 for example, the pump must bee adjusted according to the testsheet for this engine. The things you can use in a sprinterpump is the distributor head & camplate that is a match. Put it in a mechanical housing and work with it in the testbench until it works OK.
Advanace piston in the VE pump is to be used, but you can not use the gear with advance that is when you have inlinepump, you need the sprocket from the sprinter, otherwise there can be a conflict with the advance.
If you are intend to go over 3500 rpm, the 12 & 14 mm rotorhead is no good, they do overfuel at low rpm and gives less fuel over 3500 rpm. 11 mm is the ideal size, nice curve on fuel up to over 5000 rpm.
12 mm is for agriculture pumps, high tourqe at low rpm.
04-26-2011, 10:04 AM
#49
(04-26-2011, 09:59 AM)dieselmeken Here is some "knowhow" from the dieseltech!
This is NOT comparable figures, the amount of fuel that is in the testsheet is depending of the testinjectors & pipes in the bench. For example the 992 pump is to be run against 116 injectors and 1,8 x350 pipes, 018 pump is to be run against 000 injector and 2x840 pipes.
Difference in amount of fuel is so high and not comparable.
For example, the 116 testinjector has 0,6mm orifice plate and 210 bar opening pressure, 000 injector has 150 bar opening pressure, no orifice plate.
If you calibrate a 992 after the testsheet with 000 ( wrong injectors)or even only wrong pipes, the engine goes bananas.
So just compare fuelamount is not the way to go.
IF you are going to put in a VE pump on a OM 603 for example, the pump must bee adjusted according to the testsheet for this engine. The things you can use in a sprinterpump is the distributor head & camplate that is a match. Put it in a mechanical housing and work with it in the testbench until it works OK.
Advanace piston in the VE pump is to be used, but you can not use the gear with advance that is when you have inlinepump, you need the sprocket from the sprinter, otherwise there can be a conflict with the advance.
If you are intend to go over 3500 rpm, the 12 & 14 mm rotorhead is no good, they do overfuel at low rpm and gives less fuel over 3500 rpm. 11 mm is the ideal size, nice curve on fuel up to over 5000 rpm.
12 mm is for agriculture pumps, high tourqe at low rpm.
Rain on my parade why dont you
. I have found 4200 rpm governor springs for the VE pump, this would allow me to get close to PE pump rpms.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(04-26-2011, 09:59 AM)dieselmeken Here is some "knowhow" from the dieseltech!
This is NOT comparable figures, the amount of fuel that is in the testsheet is depending of the testinjectors & pipes in the bench. For example the 992 pump is to be run against 116 injectors and 1,8 x350 pipes, 018 pump is to be run against 000 injector and 2x840 pipes.
Difference in amount of fuel is so high and not comparable.
For example, the 116 testinjector has 0,6mm orifice plate and 210 bar opening pressure, 000 injector has 150 bar opening pressure, no orifice plate.
If you calibrate a 992 after the testsheet with 000 ( wrong injectors)or even only wrong pipes, the engine goes bananas.
So just compare fuelamount is not the way to go.
IF you are going to put in a VE pump on a OM 603 for example, the pump must bee adjusted according to the testsheet for this engine. The things you can use in a sprinterpump is the distributor head & camplate that is a match. Put it in a mechanical housing and work with it in the testbench until it works OK.
Advanace piston in the VE pump is to be used, but you can not use the gear with advance that is when you have inlinepump, you need the sprocket from the sprinter, otherwise there can be a conflict with the advance.
If you are intend to go over 3500 rpm, the 12 & 14 mm rotorhead is no good, they do overfuel at low rpm and gives less fuel over 3500 rpm. 11 mm is the ideal size, nice curve on fuel up to over 5000 rpm.
12 mm is for agriculture pumps, high tourqe at low rpm.
Rain on my parade why dont you
. I have found 4200 rpm governor springs for the VE pump, this would allow me to get close to PE pump rpms.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
04-26-2011, 02:51 PM
#50
(04-26-2011, 10:04 AM)winmutt Rain on my parade why dont you
Hmm--
Well, I DID try and tell you of the timing issue.
I however, wouldnt worry in the slightest about it. Here's the way I would do it....
Remove your existing chain-driven timing-device, check its all perfect, maybe grind down the stops to increase the Maximum timing-advance that it will provide, research suggests about an additional 5 degrees, at maximum engine speed...
Re-fit it and turn attention to pump.
You'll have to make up a Mongrel pump of your own to suit the engine....
You'll need that bearing carrier/int shaft adaptor from the Sprinter VP Pump (Everywhere here in UK as well as BOSCH, That Fully Electronic Pump from Sprinter is called, VP37!)
--Anyway. The Next Problem is finding a Mechanical VE Body that FITS the Sprinter 'Adaptor'!
--The flange sizes of VE/VP series always tends to be different between Car/Engine-makers--Ask me just HOW I know!!
When you got one that fits or modded one/ground/made adaptor ring etc to fit Sprinter adaptor, you'll need to build up the pump....
I suggest a Governor plate assembly and caged-springs from an early non-elect. Indirect injected VW 'Golf 1600' (Rabbit to you I believe)--At least this will give somewhere near the revs range you'll need....
Then the Hydraulic Head/cam-plate from the Sprinter to start with, and set the 'X' adjustment as required by changing the centre shim on the plunger.
Going with a Cummins head could give issues--Is it a Pre-Stroker type plunger in them,--I have no idea--A previous poster suggests its a low-output at high revs type....
As to Timing--Thats reasonably easy. Dis-Able the timing-device in your Mongrel-Pump, so you'll be using the existing M.B. Timing-device so thats one Less thing thats gonna give you issues....
--The pump then, just Pumps--like the old Inline and timing's done by the 'engine' timing device....
On your search for a suitable Larger than sprinter Hydraulic Head, the size is quoted in part-number like
VE.10F.xx.xxx
Where 10 is the plunger-diameter....
--And the best of luck! This is NOT going to be an easy job to achieve without a Proper Pump Test-Bench, and the various Test-Plans for the various pumps/engines that you've sourced the parts for the Mongrel....
Alastair E
04-26-2011, 02:51 PM #50(04-26-2011, 10:04 AM)winmutt Rain on my parade why dont you
Hmm--
Well, I DID try and tell you of the timing issue.
I however, wouldnt worry in the slightest about it. Here's the way I would do it....
Remove your existing chain-driven timing-device, check its all perfect, maybe grind down the stops to increase the Maximum timing-advance that it will provide, research suggests about an additional 5 degrees, at maximum engine speed...
Re-fit it and turn attention to pump.
You'll have to make up a Mongrel pump of your own to suit the engine....
You'll need that bearing carrier/int shaft adaptor from the Sprinter VP Pump (Everywhere here in UK as well as BOSCH, That Fully Electronic Pump from Sprinter is called, VP37!)
--Anyway. The Next Problem is finding a Mechanical VE Body that FITS the Sprinter 'Adaptor'!
--The flange sizes of VE/VP series always tends to be different between Car/Engine-makers--Ask me just HOW I know!!
When you got one that fits or modded one/ground/made adaptor ring etc to fit Sprinter adaptor, you'll need to build up the pump....
I suggest a Governor plate assembly and caged-springs from an early non-elect. Indirect injected VW 'Golf 1600' (Rabbit to you I believe)--At least this will give somewhere near the revs range you'll need....
Then the Hydraulic Head/cam-plate from the Sprinter to start with, and set the 'X' adjustment as required by changing the centre shim on the plunger.
Going with a Cummins head could give issues--Is it a Pre-Stroker type plunger in them,--I have no idea--A previous poster suggests its a low-output at high revs type....
As to Timing--Thats reasonably easy. Dis-Able the timing-device in your Mongrel-Pump, so you'll be using the existing M.B. Timing-device so thats one Less thing thats gonna give you issues....
--The pump then, just Pumps--like the old Inline and timing's done by the 'engine' timing device....
On your search for a suitable Larger than sprinter Hydraulic Head, the size is quoted in part-number like
VE.10F.xx.xxx
Where 10 is the plunger-diameter....
--And the best of luck! This is NOT going to be an easy job to achieve without a Proper Pump Test-Bench, and the various Test-Plans for the various pumps/engines that you've sourced the parts for the Mongrel....
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