Diesel enthusiast from the UK has clutch queries
Diesel enthusiast from the UK has clutch queries
I'm new here (tried to register on the shuman automotive superturbo forum but wasn't allowed
) I'm from the UK and am starting to collect parts to fit an OM606 into my mercedes w201.I have a 5 speed manual gearbox from a 190 cosworth and I'm wondering if anyone knows the current prefered clutch setup? I've read somewhere that most people use a 190 cosworth or bmw e30 M3 clutch disk sitting inside a mercedes/dodge sprinter 316cdi clutch housing and pressure plate?
Does this sounds right?
I see that there is a lot of info on here about om617 engines, if anyone wants some pictures of my old w123 300d with aftermarket turbo kit and manual gearbox, or if you want any more info about it, I have some somewhere. Shame it rotted and developed a rod-knock.
Thanks in advance for your help, hope I've stumbled accross the right place.
Regards,
Hugh
Hello everyone,
I'm new here (tried to register on the shuman automotive superturbo forum but wasn't allowed ) I'm from the UK and am starting to collect parts to fit an OM606 into my mercedes w201.
I have a 5 speed manual gearbox from a 190 cosworth and I'm wondering if anyone knows the current prefered clutch setup? I've read somewhere that most people use a 190 cosworth or bmw e30 M3 clutch disk sitting inside a mercedes/dodge sprinter 316cdi clutch housing and pressure plate?
Does this sounds right?
I see that there is a lot of info on here about om617 engines, if anyone wants some pictures of my old w123 300d with aftermarket turbo kit and manual gearbox, or if you want any more info about it, I have some somewhere. Shame it rotted and developed a rod-knock.
Thanks in advance for your help, hope I've stumbled accross the right place.
Regards,
Hugh
Most of my experience is with the 617, but I seem to recall hearing that the sprinter clutch setup can be used on high power OM603 and 606 engines.
The discussion about the clutch setup this engine is using is just getting started on pg 2: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://superturbodiesel.com/std/topic54.html">topic54.html</a><!-- l -->
Welcome. Don't worry about screwmans' most of us are not allowed either. :roll:
Most of my experience is with the 617, but I seem to recall hearing that the sprinter clutch setup can be used on high power OM603 and 606 engines.
The discussion about the clutch setup this engine is using is just getting started on pg 2: <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://superturbodiesel.com/std/topic54.html">topic54.html</a><!-- l -->
I know the sprinter puts out 280lb/ft of torque, if you use a stronger pressure plate it should be able to hold even more.
This is the clutch set I'm looking at for my 617: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://optionimports.com/se253h-570.html">http://optionimports.com/se253h-570.html</a><!-- m -->
ForcedInduction
04-03-2008, 06:27 AM
#3
I'd definitely like to see those pictures you have.
I know the sprinter puts out 280lb/ft of torque, if you use a stronger pressure plate it should be able to hold even more.
This is the clutch set I'm looking at for my 617: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://optionimports.com/se253h-570.html">http://optionimports.com/se253h-570.html</a><!-- m -->
Re. the w123 that I had. It started life as a 2.3 petrol automatic but was converted at some point in it's life to n/a om617 that was then turbo'd with a kit by STT. It was mated to a 5 speed manual box, and I got it from ebay locally in a late night bidding session that in hindsight turned out to be not my best call!
It was cheap (I paid £600 for it, at the current exchange rate that's about 1200 bucks) and I got 30k miles from it in just under a year but it started to develop a rod knock and the rust was getting bad, I had to patch the sills for the anual roadworthyness test. That was when I got my w201, but I really miss the diesel power.
It had a non turbo capable IP, I think the fuelling was just turned up accross the whole range, there was no boost pressure compensation which meant it was a bit smokey. I had a little trouble getting it through the anual smoke test we have here.
I'll grab the pictures I kept of it and put them on my picasaweb or similar for you to look at.
Cheers,
Hugh
Thanks for your help guys, I spoke with the guy I'm getting the gearbox from this morning and he's going to throw in the remnants of the 190 cosworth clutch so I have something to use for mock-up purposes.
Re. the w123 that I had. It started life as a 2.3 petrol automatic but was converted at some point in it's life to n/a om617 that was then turbo'd with a kit by STT. It was mated to a 5 speed manual box, and I got it from ebay locally in a late night bidding session that in hindsight turned out to be not my best call!
It was cheap (I paid £600 for it, at the current exchange rate that's about 1200 bucks) and I got 30k miles from it in just under a year but it started to develop a rod knock and the rust was getting bad, I had to patch the sills for the anual roadworthyness test. That was when I got my w201, but I really miss the diesel power.
It had a non turbo capable IP, I think the fuelling was just turned up accross the whole range, there was no boost pressure compensation which meant it was a bit smokey. I had a little trouble getting it through the anual smoke test we have here.
I'll grab the pictures I kept of it and put them on my picasaweb or similar for you to look at.
Cheers,
Hugh
ForcedInduction This is the clutch set I'm looking at for my 617: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://optionimports.com/se253h-570.html">http://optionimports.com/se253h-570.html</a><!-- m -->
Anybody else find it funny that this stage 2 clutch is advertised for a 240D? :mrgreen: I wonder if it actually has more grip or if it is just blue.
Hugh - did you keep the 617 5 speed? Those are VERY hard to find over here.
ForcedInduction This is the clutch set I'm looking at for my 617: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://optionimports.com/se253h-570.html">http://optionimports.com/se253h-570.html</a><!-- m -->
Anybody else find it funny that this stage 2 clutch is advertised for a 240D? :mrgreen: I wonder if it actually has more grip or if it is just blue.
SteveM Why wouldn't Schuman allow certain people to register?
They act like children. I could go into more detail but there isn't a point. This forum is an open community to all. Just respect each other and contribute.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
SteveM Why wouldn't Schuman allow certain people to register?
They act like children. I could go into more detail but there isn't a point. This forum is an open community to all. Just respect each other and contribute.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
When the sprinter got common rail engines, most of them were fitted with the 2.2 16v cdi unit as fitted to the C220 cdi etc, these are rated at 110 and 130hp. A few sprinter are fitted with the 2.7 twin cam 5 cyl common rail as fitted to the ML270 cdi. It's rated at 160hp.
Hope that helps someone!
Hugh
Phase 1 sprinters were fitted with two diesel engine choices over here, a 2.2 non turbo diesel as fitted to the 208 and 308 type vans. I believe this is a stroked OM601 engine. The 210,310 and 212,312 type had a 2.9 5 cylinder with 100 and 120hp respectively. This has a OM602 engine code and I think it's a stroked 2.5 5cyl.
When the sprinter got common rail engines, most of them were fitted with the 2.2 16v cdi unit as fitted to the C220 cdi etc, these are rated at 110 and 130hp. A few sprinter are fitted with the 2.7 twin cam 5 cyl common rail as fitted to the ML270 cdi. It's rated at 160hp.
Hope that helps someone!
Hugh
SteveM.
That's good information on the different generations of Sprinters and their diesel powerplants. I have fairly little knowledge regarding the Sprinters. What I'm wondering is if there is a heavier-duty 5-speed manual transmission that was offered in any of the Sprinters which would be compatible with the W201 chassis and the various OM60X engines. I think that all of the Sprinters in the US have been auto transmissions. Does anyone know if the Sprinters used the same trannies as our cars, or are they more heavy duty units, capable of handling more power?
SteveM.
I did not realize they were om60x.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
One indicator would be clutch differences between the two. Clutch will be based on torque so the higher the torque the higher the demand on transmissions. Can you get a part number on the sprinter?
I did not realize they were om60x.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
winmutt I did not realize they were om60x.
The early ones outside of the USA were. All Sprinters in the USA used the 2.7L I-5 CDI until 2007 when the 3.5L V6 g@s and 3.0L V6 CDI became the only options.
The 2.9L OM602 is actually a direct injection engine, although not a CDI.
ForcedInduction
04-04-2008, 06:52 AM
#12
winmutt I did not realize they were om60x.
The early ones outside of the USA were. All Sprinters in the USA used the 2.7L I-5 CDI until 2007 when the 3.5L V6 g@s and 3.0L V6 CDI became the only options.
The 2.9L OM602 is actually a direct injection engine, although not a CDI.
Regarding the gearboxes, I think the sprinters just use a similar manual box as used in the cars. It's probably made by getrag.
Take a look at this picture if it's of any help:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2004-MERCEDES-SPRINTER-VAN-311CDI-GEARBOX-21-000-MILES_W0QQitemZ200202249681QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10398QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2004-MERCEDES-SPR ... dZViewItem</a><!-- m -->
SteveM, if you need a gearbox for your w201, why not consider a 5 speed getrag from a 190 cosworth? Are they available over there?
Hugh
Ah yes I forgot to mention about the direct injection bit. They also use an electronically controlled rotary pump (VF44?)
Regarding the gearboxes, I think the sprinters just use a similar manual box as used in the cars. It's probably made by getrag.
Take a look at this picture if it's of any help:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2004-MERCEDES-SPRINTER-VAN-311CDI-GEARBOX-21-000-MILES_W0QQitemZ200202249681QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10398QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2004-MERCEDES-SPR ... dZViewItem</a><!-- m -->
SteveM, if you need a gearbox for your w201, why not consider a 5 speed getrag from a 190 cosworth? Are they available over there?
Hugh
Thanks for the link to the photo of the transmission. Without seeing the complete bolt pattern on the bellhousing, it is difficult to tell whether it would work or not. It looks like it might be OK.
Yes, the Getrag transmission from the Cosworth is available here. The downside to that transmission is that they are somewhat rare, although they can be found, but there is no overdrive. Top gear is 1:1.
I'm just curious about the Sprinter transmissions, and need to learn more. If they are more heavy duty, and still maintain the overdrive, they might work well for higher powered diesels.
SteveM.
Hugh:
Thanks for the link to the photo of the transmission. Without seeing the complete bolt pattern on the bellhousing, it is difficult to tell whether it would work or not. It looks like it might be OK.
Yes, the Getrag transmission from the Cosworth is available here. The downside to that transmission is that they are somewhat rare, although they can be found, but there is no overdrive. Top gear is 1:1.
I'm just curious about the Sprinter transmissions, and need to learn more. If they are more heavy duty, and still maintain the overdrive, they might work well for higher powered diesels.
SteveM.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Well my clutch is starting to slip already. 15k or less. All I did was stick a new used friction disc (had about 50% more usable material than my old one) in there so I am not overly surprised. Anyone know what the specific specs are on these? Which sprinter clutch fits? Why the pressure plate wont?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
You might have to ask on the Mersu forum, since the US didn't get a single Sprinter with a manual you'll have a hard time finding parts for it over here.
ForcedInduction
12-08-2008, 04:54 PM
#16
Odd, I have 26,500+ on my clutch with no problems at all. Maybe your 2.88 rear end was putting too much stress on it?
You might have to ask on the Mersu forum, since the US didn't get a single Sprinter with a manual you'll have a hard time finding parts for it over here.
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