Big front sway bar
Big front sway bar
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Is this normal or aftermarket? I was doing some engine work and noticed my front swaybar is quite larger than I thought it would be at 24mm.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
(02-20-2009, 03:05 PM)kamel Is this normal or aftermarket? I was doing some engine work and noticed my front swaybar is quite larger than I thought it would be at 24mm.Only 2 sizes available, 24 and 26.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(02-20-2009, 03:05 PM)kamel Is this normal or aftermarket? I was doing some engine work and noticed my front swaybar is quite larger than I thought it would be at 24mm.Only 2 sizes available, 24 and 26.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
(03-01-2009, 02:27 PM)GREASY_BEAST I will be parting out a wagon in May.
I'll try to remember that.
Gasoline Fumes
03-02-2009, 01:22 PM #8(03-01-2009, 02:27 PM)GREASY_BEAST I will be parting out a wagon in May.
I'll try to remember that.
I bring this up because of the oddball geometry of the sway bar location up top with ball joints. I feel like thats an unusual location designed with more comfort in mind, and the sheer size of the monster sway bar makes up for the tentative grip on body roll is really has.
What about possibly using a smaller sway bar and moving it to a more conventional location in front low and welding in a couple of brackets to the lower control arms with links? That would give us direct sway control attached to the control arm itself.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
Interestingly, the front swaybar on a 123 sedan is actually near the same diameter as the sway bar on a 1998 workhorse 30ft cube van, which has a very stiff suspension with minimal body roll. The thing must be twice the size on that car as sway bars on vehicles with twice the mass.
I bring this up because of the oddball geometry of the sway bar location up top with ball joints. I feel like thats an unusual location designed with more comfort in mind, and the sheer size of the monster sway bar makes up for the tentative grip on body roll is really has.
What about possibly using a smaller sway bar and moving it to a more conventional location in front low and welding in a couple of brackets to the lower control arms with links? That would give us direct sway control attached to the control arm itself.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
(04-22-2009, 06:02 PM)dropnosky Interestingly, the front swaybar on a 123 sedan is actually near the same diameter as the sway bar on a 1998 workhorse 30ft cube van, which has a very stiff suspension with minimal body roll. The thing must be twice the size on that car as sway bars on vehicles with twice the mass.
I bring this up because of the oddball geometry of the sway bar location up top with ball joints. I feel like thats an unusual location designed with more comfort in mind, and the sheer size of the monster sway bar makes up for the tentative grip on body roll is really has.
What about possibly using a smaller sway bar and moving it to a more conventional location in front low and welding in a couple of brackets to the lower control arms with links? That would give us direct sway control attached to the control arm itself.
I think part of the reason MB designed it the way they did was to not have that part hanging down there. Notice the way-huge ground clearance for a sedan? Not saying it's an impasse but for some people it's something to consider. If you're doing anything off-road I wouldn't recommend it.
However, you could add a wimpy stock swaybar from some other car and adapt it - some people over at turbobricks.com double up stock swaybars to get stiffer for cheap. This would work similarly, only you'd of course leave the stock swaybar where it is to avoid having to reinvent the wheel. As long as you picked the right car to get the bar off all you'd really need otherwise is a welder. So that would have some appeal to people who don't mind giving up ground clearance. (My last car was a lowered Civic so ground clearance came to be more respected as a result
) Over on benzworld.org, Nur-Spec I believe is the guy with the most done to his W123. He's been the biggest advocate of proper coil-cutting and things like that; I don't have the time to search for you but I'd see what he has going, seems to know his stuff.
CID Vicious
05-13-2009, 12:39 AM #10(04-22-2009, 06:02 PM)dropnosky Interestingly, the front swaybar on a 123 sedan is actually near the same diameter as the sway bar on a 1998 workhorse 30ft cube van, which has a very stiff suspension with minimal body roll. The thing must be twice the size on that car as sway bars on vehicles with twice the mass.
I bring this up because of the oddball geometry of the sway bar location up top with ball joints. I feel like thats an unusual location designed with more comfort in mind, and the sheer size of the monster sway bar makes up for the tentative grip on body roll is really has.
What about possibly using a smaller sway bar and moving it to a more conventional location in front low and welding in a couple of brackets to the lower control arms with links? That would give us direct sway control attached to the control arm itself.
I think part of the reason MB designed it the way they did was to not have that part hanging down there. Notice the way-huge ground clearance for a sedan? Not saying it's an impasse but for some people it's something to consider. If you're doing anything off-road I wouldn't recommend it.
However, you could add a wimpy stock swaybar from some other car and adapt it - some people over at turbobricks.com double up stock swaybars to get stiffer for cheap. This would work similarly, only you'd of course leave the stock swaybar where it is to avoid having to reinvent the wheel. As long as you picked the right car to get the bar off all you'd really need otherwise is a welder. So that would have some appeal to people who don't mind giving up ground clearance. (My last car was a lowered Civic so ground clearance came to be more respected as a result
) Over on benzworld.org, Nur-Spec I believe is the guy with the most done to his W123. He's been the biggest advocate of proper coil-cutting and things like that; I don't have the time to search for you but I'd see what he has going, seems to know his stuff.
(05-13-2009, 12:39 AM)CID Vicious I think part of the reason MB designed it the way they did was to not have that part hanging down there. Notice the way-huge ground clearance for a sedan? Not saying it's an impasse but for some people it's something to consider. If you're doing anything off-road I wouldn't recommend it.MB may have set it with high clearance because they knew Africa, India and other less infrastructure developed countries would be buying lots of them.
ForcedInduction
05-13-2009, 01:30 AM
#11
(05-13-2009, 12:39 AM)CID Vicious I think part of the reason MB designed it the way they did was to not have that part hanging down there. Notice the way-huge ground clearance for a sedan? Not saying it's an impasse but for some people it's something to consider. If you're doing anything off-road I wouldn't recommend it.MB may have set it with high clearance because they knew Africa, India and other less infrastructure developed countries would be buying lots of them.
(05-13-2009, 01:30 AM)ForcedInduction(05-13-2009, 12:39 AM)CID Vicious I think part of the reason MB designed it the way they did was to not have that part hanging down there. Notice the way-huge ground clearance for a sedan? Not saying it's an impasse but for some people it's something to consider. If you're doing anything off-road I wouldn't recommend it.MB may have set it with high clearance because they knew Africa, India and other less infrastructure developed countries would be buying lots of them.
There are different configurations of springs and shocks for this very reason.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(05-13-2009, 01:30 AM)ForcedInduction(05-13-2009, 12:39 AM)CID Vicious I think part of the reason MB designed it the way they did was to not have that part hanging down there. Notice the way-huge ground clearance for a sedan? Not saying it's an impasse but for some people it's something to consider. If you're doing anything off-road I wouldn't recommend it.MB may have set it with high clearance because they knew Africa, India and other less infrastructure developed countries would be buying lots of them.
There are different configurations of springs and shocks for this very reason.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
However, if one were looking for strictly on-road, max performance without breaking the bank...then I still think you should start out with cutting some coils in the front first.
The sway bar isn't being helped by 70's luxo-tune springs and a higher than necessary center of gravity. I think it would be comparably easier than retrofitting, say, a GM F-Body swaybar successfully. And too much swaybar up front just leads to understeer anyway. May as well get a Jetta diesel at that point (easier to upgrade, for one thing). I'm going to check out the turbobricks forum and see if their double-swaybar technique (adds 25% to 35% stiffness, not double like one might think) could be adapted for the rear of the car, which would make it want to rotate. Between removing a coil off the front springs, and adding roll stiffness in the rear, I think the difference would be comparably night and day as opposed to stock, and wouldn't cost more than a weekend and maybe a C-Note.
However, once those are accomplished and more front roll stiffness is deemed desirable, I don't see why a 'real' swaybar wouldn't be welcome, as long as you're willing to give up the clearance. In my experience, on real roads, clearance is a good thing, especially as I've already had to patch my oil pan from bottoming out the generous stock travel (don't ask, but you can probably glean a clue from 'Starsky and Hutch').
CID Vicious
05-13-2009, 03:47 PM #13Indeed. At first when I bought my 240D I balked at the '4x4' stance it had but realized how practical it was, and what good sense it made. Anyone rallying, using the car in rough terrain on occasion (ill-maintained dirt roads, etc), things like that, I don't think a 'traditional' sway bar retrofit would return much for the investment in comparison to the drawbacks.
However, if one were looking for strictly on-road, max performance without breaking the bank...then I still think you should start out with cutting some coils in the front first. The sway bar isn't being helped by 70's luxo-tune springs and a higher than necessary center of gravity. I think it would be comparably easier than retrofitting, say, a GM F-Body swaybar successfully. And too much swaybar up front just leads to understeer anyway. May as well get a Jetta diesel at that point (easier to upgrade, for one thing).
I'm going to check out the turbobricks forum and see if their double-swaybar technique (adds 25% to 35% stiffness, not double like one might think) could be adapted for the rear of the car, which would make it want to rotate. Between removing a coil off the front springs, and adding roll stiffness in the rear, I think the difference would be comparably night and day as opposed to stock, and wouldn't cost more than a weekend and maybe a C-Note.
However, once those are accomplished and more front roll stiffness is deemed desirable, I don't see why a 'real' swaybar wouldn't be welcome, as long as you're willing to give up the clearance. In my experience, on real roads, clearance is a good thing, especially as I've already had to patch my oil pan from bottoming out the generous stock travel (don't ask, but you can probably glean a clue from 'Starsky and Hutch').
although, as far as ground clearance, even if it was lower, it might be useful to protect the tie rods, which I have actually snapped hitting a curb during an accident evasion.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
I think you could do it without giving up any ground clearance, I was thinking of fabricating a few brackets off the front frame, which would put the swaybar about the same height as and in front of the lower oil pan.
although, as far as ground clearance, even if it was lower, it might be useful to protect the tie rods, which I have actually snapped hitting a curb during an accident evasion.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
(04-22-2009, 06:02 PM)dropnosky What about possibly using a smaller sway bar and moving it to a more conventional location in front low and welding in a couple of brackets to the lower control arms with links? That would give us direct sway control attached to the control arm itself.
I've been thinking about this too.
Gasoline Fumes
05-17-2009, 05:06 AM #15(04-22-2009, 06:02 PM)dropnosky What about possibly using a smaller sway bar and moving it to a more conventional location in front low and welding in a couple of brackets to the lower control arms with links? That would give us direct sway control attached to the control arm itself.
I've been thinking about this too.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Its in and its a different ride. No more hard nose diving and seems pretty tight in the turns. Slalom is a world of difference, its never been this responsive. I painted it blue. Pics coming.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(06-07-2009, 09:38 PM)winmutt Its in and its a different ride. No more hard nose diving and seems pretty tight in the turns. Slalom is a world of difference, its never been this responsive. I painted it blue. Pics coming.
How was the front to install? Does the W123 have the fuse box right over the LH mount like the W126? Do you have to pull the fusebox?
Also, on this subject of stiffness and body roll...Wouldn't getting the bushings made out of that plastic, is it polyurathane? Like the bushings for the musclecar suspensions? I'll bet changing all of the suspension rubber to poly would make our cars night and day different on the road...
'Jurgen' - 1982 300sd cream paint with palimino MB tex interior. Now running with new cooling system
.......discovered oil cooler has pinhole @#$%@
Nitrile gloves back on......'Otto' - 1985 300sd anthracite? grey/silver? with grey leather interior. (heated front seats!!!!
) Euro headlightsMods are in the works...
Telecommbrkr
06-09-2009, 07:45 PM #18(06-07-2009, 09:38 PM)winmutt Its in and its a different ride. No more hard nose diving and seems pretty tight in the turns. Slalom is a world of difference, its never been this responsive. I painted it blue. Pics coming.
How was the front to install? Does the W123 have the fuse box right over the LH mount like the W126? Do you have to pull the fusebox?
Also, on this subject of stiffness and body roll...Wouldn't getting the bushings made out of that plastic, is it polyurathane? Like the bushings for the musclecar suspensions? I'll bet changing all of the suspension rubber to poly would make our cars night and day different on the road...
'Jurgen' - 1982 300sd cream paint with palimino MB tex interior. Now running with new cooling system
.......discovered oil cooler has pinhole @#$%@ Nitrile gloves back on......'Otto' - 1985 300sd anthracite? grey/silver? with grey leather interior. (heated front seats!!!!
) Euro headlightsMods are in the works...
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
PITA but worth it in the end. 2 man job without a doubt. Takes some real man handling to get it in and out. No need to pull the fuse box. Battery tray, coolant, brake booster/master. Polyurethane would certainly help. I would like a set for the rears. The fronts, you have to wedge them in there so good I dont think it matters much what they are made of.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
![[Image: Rolf%20005.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20005.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20006.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20006.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20010.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20010.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20011.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20011.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20012.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20012.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20021.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20021.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20022.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20022.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20023.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20023.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20024.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20024.jpg)
![[Image: Rolf%20026.jpg]](http://superturbodiesel.com/images/benz/w123%20td%2026mm%20front%20swaybar/Rolf%20026.jpg)
The 300TD wagon sway bar or torsion bar measures 25 mm, not 26 mm as mentioned above.
All other w123 models should have a 24 mm sway bar.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
04-30-2014, 08:21 AM #21Just to make a correction on this thread for reference sake.
The 300TD wagon sway bar or torsion bar measures 25 mm, not 26 mm as mentioned above.
All other w123 models should have a 24 mm sway bar.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
has anyone else tried polyurethane bushings on the sway bar? i have them here with the large wagon bar, just waiting to do my battery reloc first.
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
I installed the OE stuff.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
06-23-2014, 12:33 PM #23Did you make them yourself. I thought about making them for my car. The current choices are OE mercedes @ $26-$35 a piece vs Febi/Meyle Chinese $3-$5 a piece.
I installed the OE stuff.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accesso...53702_0_0_
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
actually i was expecting to switch to the packaged brackets, probably just paint them black first. it may not work, i haven't tried fitting these yet. price was $20 at autozone.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accesso...53702_0_0_
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
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