Supercharger turbo compounds
Supercharger turbo compounds
11-14-2011, 08:08 PM
#1
If one was to install a large turbo such as an hx40 on a om606 and they wanted it to spool quickly, couldnt they make a procharger/supercharger feed into the turbo to make it spool quickly?
I could very possibly be completely wrong, so that why i want input from all you guys/gals
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
So, i will probably never be able to afford to do this, but it still intrigues me how someone would set it up.
If one was to install a large turbo such as an hx40 on a om606 and they wanted it to spool quickly, couldnt they make a procharger/supercharger feed into the turbo to make it spool quickly?
I could very possibly be completely wrong, so that why i want input from all you guys/gals
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
11-14-2011, 08:46 PM
#3
blowing air into a bigger turbo charger wont do much for the spooling, sure it will do a bit but not much because....well... thats just not the way spooling works lol.
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
iheartboost
11-14-2011, 08:46 PM #3the most common set up i see is a roots type or twin screw with a large turbo. the superchargers act as insta boost (they are behind the turbos in the intake tract turbo-->super-->engine) so the engine can start putting out alot more exhaust gasses thus spinning up the large turbo faster.
blowing air into a bigger turbo charger wont do much for the spooling, sure it will do a bit but not much because....well... thats just not the way spooling works lol.
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
11-14-2011, 10:51 PM
#5
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...p?tid=1179
Or check Rudolf's previous project on a 617.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...hp?tid=858
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
11-14-2011, 10:51 PM #5E300TSC is doing this very project.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...p?tid=1179
Or check Rudolf's previous project on a 617.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...hp?tid=858
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
11-15-2011, 02:32 PM
#6
(11-14-2011, 08:46 PM)iheartboost the most common set up i see is a roots type or twin screw with a large turbo. the superchargers act as insta boost (they are behind the turbos in the intake tract turbo-->super-->engine) so the engine can start putting out alot more exhaust gasses thus spinning up the large turbo faster.
blowing air into a bigger turbo charger wont do much for the spooling, sure it will do a bit but not much because....well... thats just not the way spooling works lol.
I agree with you iheartboost,
But, Doesn't a sequential twin turbo setup basically just blow air into the smaller charger?
So wouldnt it work with a supercharger in place of the atmospheric turbo?
I looked a little bit at Rudolf's build, i havent read it all though
And i have been trying to keep up on 300TSC build also
Please Correct me if i am wrong on anything
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(11-14-2011, 08:46 PM)iheartboost the most common set up i see is a roots type or twin screw with a large turbo. the superchargers act as insta boost (they are behind the turbos in the intake tract turbo-->super-->engine) so the engine can start putting out alot more exhaust gasses thus spinning up the large turbo faster.
blowing air into a bigger turbo charger wont do much for the spooling, sure it will do a bit but not much because....well... thats just not the way spooling works lol.
I agree with you iheartboost,
But, Doesn't a sequential twin turbo setup basically just blow air into the smaller charger?
So wouldnt it work with a supercharger in place of the atmospheric turbo?
I looked a little bit at Rudolf's build, i havent read it all though
And i have been trying to keep up on 300TSC build also
Please Correct me if i am wrong on anything
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
11-15-2011, 05:04 PM
#7
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
11-15-2011, 05:04 PM #7Yeah I have seen a Detroit diesel. 2 Roots superchargers being fed by 2 turbos!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
11-15-2011, 06:51 PM
#8
(11-15-2011, 02:32 PM)MFSuper90 I agree with you iheartboost,
But, Doesn't a sequential twin turbo setup basically just blow air into the smaller charger?
So wouldnt it work with a supercharger in place of the atmospheric turbo?
I looked a little bit at Rudolf's build, i havent read it all though
And i have been trying to keep up on 300TSC build also
Please Correct me if i am wrong on anything
you are correct in the sequntial turbo setup. the reasoning being because you can over flow a small turbo with the bigger one. (but this wont make the small one spool any faster)
it would work. but im doubting that the turbo will be the small component. typically the super charger will put out less CFM than the turbo and run out of breath up top. (being a restriction if placed before the turbo)
so yea itll work just not in the way he was thinking shoving air into a turbo from the inlet will not make it spool much faster.
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
iheartboost
11-15-2011, 06:51 PM #8(11-15-2011, 02:32 PM)MFSuper90 I agree with you iheartboost,
But, Doesn't a sequential twin turbo setup basically just blow air into the smaller charger?
So wouldnt it work with a supercharger in place of the atmospheric turbo?
I looked a little bit at Rudolf's build, i havent read it all though
And i have been trying to keep up on 300TSC build also
Please Correct me if i am wrong on anything
you are correct in the sequntial turbo setup. the reasoning being because you can over flow a small turbo with the bigger one. (but this wont make the small one spool any faster)
it would work. but im doubting that the turbo will be the small component. typically the super charger will put out less CFM than the turbo and run out of breath up top. (being a restriction if placed before the turbo)
so yea itll work just not in the way he was thinking shoving air into a turbo from the inlet will not make it spool much faster.
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
11-15-2011, 10:16 PM
#9
So in the end Rudolf and 300TSC setup would be better
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Thats what i was thinking. Unless somehow you could set up a bypass if it created vacuum on the supercharger, i think the turbo would probably choke out on top end.
So in the end Rudolf and 300TSC setup would be better
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
11-22-2011, 02:13 PM
#10
, OM606, lysholm 2300AX, holset HE551 and 722.9 trans you start hearing the noise of the car att13min 39sec and soon it comes in to the picture.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oe1V9qEsFE
On this video you can see a merc that has an lysholm supercharger feeding in to an enourmous Holset, and works quit good , OM606, lysholm 2300AX, holset HE551 and 722.9 trans you start hearing the noise of the car att13min 39sec and soon it comes in to the picture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oe1V9qEsFE
11-22-2011, 07:20 PM
#11
(11-22-2011, 02:13 PM)Allu D. On this video you can see a merc that has an lysholm supercharger feeding in to an enourmous Holset, and works quit good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oe1V9qEsFE
The sound is very cool
, but maybe it will become annoying if you use it for every day driving
?Do you have any more info or photos of that car?
My guess is that it is the turbo that is feeding the Lysholm.
(11-22-2011, 02:13 PM)Allu D. On this video you can see a merc that has an lysholm supercharger feeding in to an enourmous Holset, and works quit good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oe1V9qEsFE
The sound is very cool
, but maybe it will become annoying if you use it for every day driving?Do you have any more info or photos of that car?
My guess is that it is the turbo that is feeding the Lysholm.
11-23-2011, 02:17 AM
#12
Yes the sound in the car is VERRY annoying, but its still a verry fun car. I belive I have all the existing info on the car exept all the costs :-) because its my friends car and I've been with him helping to build it this summer. And it is definently the lysholm that blows in to holset, and when the turbo spools up then the supercharger just lyes there spinning and dooing nothing. And one more thing, 180cc of fuel burns smoke free :-)
11-25-2011, 04:03 AM
#13
(11-23-2011, 02:17 AM)Allu D. Yes the sound in the car is VERRY annoying, but its still a verry fun car. I belive I have all the existing info on the car exept all the costs :-) because its my friends car and I've been with him helping to build it this summer. And it is definently the lysholm that blows in to holset, and when the turbo spools up then the supercharger just lyes there spinning and dooing nothing. And one more thing, 180cc of fuel burns smoke free :-)
Hi
Anyone can put a high capacity pump and make a lot of smoke, but a good tuner build the engine so it gets enough air in and exhaust out. Then you get a real performance engine without smoke. From the video, it looks like you are that kind of good tuner
Do you have a photo of the engine? It is very interesting so see the tubing from the Lysholm to the Turbo. I guess you have a bypass valve that opens when the turbo kicks inn.
I am planning to build an engine with a turbo that feeds the supercharger, but maybe your solution is better?
This post was last modified: 11-25-2011, 04:06 AM by erling66.
(11-23-2011, 02:17 AM)Allu D. Yes the sound in the car is VERRY annoying, but its still a verry fun car. I belive I have all the existing info on the car exept all the costs :-) because its my friends car and I've been with him helping to build it this summer. And it is definently the lysholm that blows in to holset, and when the turbo spools up then the supercharger just lyes there spinning and dooing nothing. And one more thing, 180cc of fuel burns smoke free :-)
Hi
Anyone can put a high capacity pump and make a lot of smoke, but a good tuner build the engine so it gets enough air in and exhaust out. Then you get a real performance engine without smoke. From the video, it looks like you are that kind of good tuner
Do you have a photo of the engine? It is very interesting so see the tubing from the Lysholm to the Turbo. I guess you have a bypass valve that opens when the turbo kicks inn.
I am planning to build an engine with a turbo that feeds the supercharger, but maybe your solution is better?
11-28-2011, 08:56 PM
#14
Here is a link to a Volvo KAD 44 engine check valve, and it`s a 3 way valve.
The compressor feeds the turbo, until the turbo need more air than the compressor can feed. Then the valve inside the "check valve" opens, and the turbo sucks air straight from airfilter. The compressor also has a electrick clutch "A/C pump clutch style", and is disconected when the turbo takes over!
EDH_Performance
11-28-2011, 08:56 PM #14http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLVO-PENTA-KAD-...7013743788
Here is a link to a Volvo KAD 44 engine check valve, and it`s a 3 way valve.
The compressor feeds the turbo, until the turbo need more air than the compressor can feed. Then the valve inside the "check valve" opens, and the turbo sucks air straight from airfilter. The compressor also has a electrick clutch "A/C pump clutch style", and is disconected when the turbo takes over!
11-28-2011, 10:09 PM
#15
and thats a pretty awesome car Allu D. never said it wont work. just ive never seen a supercharger blow into the turbo.
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
iheartboost
11-28-2011, 10:09 PM #15interesting. that would definitely do the job.
and thats a pretty awesome car Allu D. never said it wont work. just ive never seen a supercharger blow into the turbo.
1998 E300TD 7.5mm pump and hx35 to come!
00 Mustang gt drift car
11-30-2011, 09:26 PM
#16
What about a twin turbo setup (sequential?) with a small fast spooling turbo instead of the supercharger..... It wouldn't sound so annoying at least
Not sure if this would be more or less complicated than a supercharger/turbocharger and if it would increase low end torque as effectively though.
This post was last modified: 11-30-2011, 09:39 PM by Lance Carbuncle.
Lance Carbuncle
11-30-2011, 09:26 PM #16Having a clutch on the compressor sounds like it would work well for full throttle passes such as drag racing, or quickly accelerating to cruising speed, but if you were road racing or driving hard where you were constantly braking and accelerating back and forth, I would think that you would quickly destroy a clutch like that when you have the horsepower that an engine like that would make... wouldn't you?
What about a twin turbo setup (sequential?) with a small fast spooling turbo instead of the supercharger..... It wouldn't sound so annoying at least Not sure if this would be more or less complicated than a supercharger/turbocharger and if it would increase low end torque as effectively though.
12-01-2011, 01:17 PM
#17
(11-22-2011, 02:13 PM)Allu D. On this video you can see a merc that has an lysholm supercharger feeding in to an enourmous Holset, and works quit goodHey you got the 722.9 to work in the car, Respect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oe1V9qEsFE
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(11-22-2011, 02:13 PM)Allu D. On this video you can see a merc that has an lysholm supercharger feeding in to an enourmous Holset, and works quit goodHey you got the 722.9 to work in the car, Respect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oe1V9qEsFE
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
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