OM617 Turbo Diesel Doesn't Restart
OM617 Turbo Diesel Doesn't Restart
We have a 300 TD wagon that is driven daily and have respect for the OM617 engine.
Just installed an OM617 5 Cyl TD into our 1972 Land Rover 109. Have been working on the conversion off and on for 3 years and pulled a $350 engine out of a wrecked 300D at the local Pick-N-Pull. The engine was started on a run-in-stand with radiator and ran really well with the exception of oil blowing out of the turbine side of the turbo. The turbo was swapped out which reduced the oil blow by, but didn't eliminate it completely. Was rushing to get the vehicle running, so didn't go through the engine before the install. Bought a turbo rebuild kit on eBay, but haven't attempted a rebuild yet.
At first the engine ran well and always started easily and restarted right away.
After a few test drives it wouldn't restart. If we waited about 10-15 minutes it would restart, but after starting cold (always starts easily) and running for any time including a few minutes, it just won't restart. All glow plugs are good, and getting power.
Work done this weekend:
Fuel lines disconnected and blown out.
Sedimenter disassembled and cleaned, low pressure electric fuel pump between sedimenter and fuel filter removed and checked (is moving fuel in an unrestricted manor), fuel filter changed...
Valves adjusted (all but 1 were too tight)
Compression check using the kit that came from Mercedes Source (only mentioned source because some of the threads referred to cheap kits that might give incorrect compression readings).
Used the injector holes (taken with all removed) =
1 - 400 PSI
2 - 320 PSI
3 - 380 PSI
4 - 360 PSI
5 - 400 PSI
While taking the compression, put each injector on the IP location for that same cylinder and checked the spray with a surplus bent line. Am not sure what to look for, but spray pattern squirted a lot of fuel straight out in a pattern that I can only describe as similar to the shape of the flame from an acetylene torch sort of. We have 5 of the monark injector nozzles but am waiting on the injector pressure tester, but it hasn't arrived yet. Perhaps the new nozzles will help???
All the cylinders seemed oily when the injectors and heat shields were removed.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I read a number of threads, but didn't see any with a similar problem, but could have missed it as there is a lot of info on this site.
rdavisinva
rdavisinva
01-01-2012, 02:37 PM #1Happy New Year everyone. Am new, but have been reading some of the threads on this site for about a year.
We have a 300 TD wagon that is driven daily and have respect for the OM617 engine.
Just installed an OM617 5 Cyl TD into our 1972 Land Rover 109. Have been working on the conversion off and on for 3 years and pulled a $350 engine out of a wrecked 300D at the local Pick-N-Pull. The engine was started on a run-in-stand with radiator and ran really well with the exception of oil blowing out of the turbine side of the turbo. The turbo was swapped out which reduced the oil blow by, but didn't eliminate it completely. Was rushing to get the vehicle running, so didn't go through the engine before the install. Bought a turbo rebuild kit on eBay, but haven't attempted a rebuild yet.
At first the engine ran well and always started easily and restarted right away.
After a few test drives it wouldn't restart. If we waited about 10-15 minutes it would restart, but after starting cold (always starts easily) and running for any time including a few minutes, it just won't restart. All glow plugs are good, and getting power.
Work done this weekend:
Fuel lines disconnected and blown out.
Sedimenter disassembled and cleaned, low pressure electric fuel pump between sedimenter and fuel filter removed and checked (is moving fuel in an unrestricted manor), fuel filter changed...
Valves adjusted (all but 1 were too tight)
Compression check using the kit that came from Mercedes Source (only mentioned source because some of the threads referred to cheap kits that might give incorrect compression readings).
Used the injector holes (taken with all removed) =
1 - 400 PSI
2 - 320 PSI
3 - 380 PSI
4 - 360 PSI
5 - 400 PSI
While taking the compression, put each injector on the IP location for that same cylinder and checked the spray with a surplus bent line. Am not sure what to look for, but spray pattern squirted a lot of fuel straight out in a pattern that I can only describe as similar to the shape of the flame from an acetylene torch sort of. We have 5 of the monark injector nozzles but am waiting on the injector pressure tester, but it hasn't arrived yet. Perhaps the new nozzles will help???
All the cylinders seemed oily when the injectors and heat shields were removed.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I read a number of threads, but didn't see any with a similar problem, but could have missed it as there is a lot of info on this site.
rdavisinva
(01-01-2012, 07:13 PM)aaa Sounds like a fuel issue of some sort. Tank vented properly?Yes tank is vented and disconnected the hose leading to the lift pump and fuel comes out steadily.
BTW: didn't use the stock filter, so took the original 3 way return banjo off the filter and used it on the back of the injection pump as a return line banjo union.
Blocked off the 6mm fitting, hooked the injector spill over to the small 3.5 mm fitting and routed the return line to the 8mm fitting.
Thought this would be OK... ?
rdavisinva
01-01-2012, 07:38 PM #3(01-01-2012, 07:13 PM)aaa Sounds like a fuel issue of some sort. Tank vented properly?Yes tank is vented and disconnected the hose leading to the lift pump and fuel comes out steadily.
BTW: didn't use the stock filter, so took the original 3 way return banjo off the filter and used it on the back of the injection pump as a return line banjo union.
Blocked off the 6mm fitting, hooked the injector spill over to the small 3.5 mm fitting and routed the return line to the 8mm fitting.
Thought this would be OK... ?
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
Does the engine turn over when warm and not start or not turn over at all when warm? My engine also at times will not start when warm- but all I get is a "click". After waiting for some time it starts right up as if nothing was the matter.
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
01-03-2012, 09:16 PM #5Thats purely a starter issue ^^
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
(01-03-2012, 09:16 PM)Captain America Thats purely a starter issue ^^
Agteed.
In this case the engine spins over just fine, glow plugs are fine, but the engine just does not start.
rdavisinva
01-04-2012, 10:32 PM #6(01-03-2012, 09:16 PM)Captain America Thats purely a starter issue ^^
Agteed.
In this case the engine spins over just fine, glow plugs are fine, but the engine just does not start.
can you try to spay a LITTLE ether in the turbo as its cranking?
Can you shoot a picture of you new fuel plumbing since you ditched the stock filter setup?
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
01-05-2012, 02:56 AM #7It should fire, especially with the good compression. I am agreeing with aaa, sounds like fuel..
can you try to spay a LITTLE ether in the turbo as its cranking?
Can you shoot a picture of you new fuel plumbing since you ditched the stock filter setup?
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Try removing vac.hose to fuel shut off at rear of injection pump,when engine will not restart. Possible oil in line or defective vac switch at ign. switch. This is a vent line when key is on. No vent, rack in injection pump stays pulled to off position. Vent does occur but slowly,and will restart after a few minutes. Good luck.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
01-05-2012, 06:22 PM #9^^^ try the vac shut off first by removing the vacuum hose
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
(01-05-2012, 06:22 PM)willbhere4u ^^^ try the vac shut off first by removing the vacuum hose
Thanks so much for the good advice.
It now runs so smooth and restarts right away.
Tonight got it running really well.
But before today:
Engine would start right up, smoke, and run rough, then didn't want to restart.
Have been buying pick-n-pull engines for under $400.
Bought a set of valve adjustment wrenches, compression, tester and pop-tester for the injectors along with the injector heat shields (seats).
Compression was OK (see first post), later found a bad injector.
Pulled injectors from 3 OM617 TDs in our shop and tested them all.
Put the best 5 that had the closest pop pressure (1950) and best/finest spray pattern.
Of the 15 tested, 7 were bad, some squirted a small stream.
Also had incorrect routing on the spill over lines from the injectors and corrected this.
As suggested, the shut off solenoid was holding vacuum and adding to the did not want to restart issue, so disconnected the hose and have a primarily open 12V solenoid on order that will replace the primarily closed one we had hooked up.
Next step after test drive:
Have a turbo rebuild kit and plan to rebuild the turbo.
Sometimes some outside suggestions from someone who is not right in front of the vehicle overlooking the obvious can make helpful hints, thanks.
Tomorrow will get in a test drive and let you know how it drives!
RDavisinva
rdavisinva
01-06-2012, 10:59 PM #10(01-05-2012, 06:22 PM)willbhere4u ^^^ try the vac shut off first by removing the vacuum hose
Thanks so much for the good advice.
It now runs so smooth and restarts right away.
Tonight got it running really well.
But before today:
Engine would start right up, smoke, and run rough, then didn't want to restart.
Have been buying pick-n-pull engines for under $400.
Bought a set of valve adjustment wrenches, compression, tester and pop-tester for the injectors along with the injector heat shields (seats).
Compression was OK (see first post), later found a bad injector.
Pulled injectors from 3 OM617 TDs in our shop and tested them all.
Put the best 5 that had the closest pop pressure (1950) and best/finest spray pattern.
Of the 15 tested, 7 were bad, some squirted a small stream.
Also had incorrect routing on the spill over lines from the injectors and corrected this.
As suggested, the shut off solenoid was holding vacuum and adding to the did not want to restart issue, so disconnected the hose and have a primarily open 12V solenoid on order that will replace the primarily closed one we had hooked up.
Next step after test drive:
Have a turbo rebuild kit and plan to rebuild the turbo.
Sometimes some outside suggestions from someone who is not right in front of the vehicle overlooking the obvious can make helpful hints, thanks.
Tomorrow will get in a test drive and let you know how it drives!
RDavisinva
I had a 1972 series IIa 88" with the 2 1/4 petrol liter engine a few years ago!
I wish I had kept it and done this with it!
What did you do for the trans/tcase?
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
01-06-2012, 11:43 PM #11glad you go it going! post up some pics! very jealous
I had a 1972 series IIa 88" with the 2 1/4 petrol liter engine a few years ago!
I wish I had kept it and done this with it!
What did you do for the trans/tcase?
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
This 109 unlike the 88s and 109s that had the 2.25 4 cyl, came with a Euro Rover I-O-E 6 cyl.
The bulkhead on this 109 is concave by an extra 2" and the transmission was moved back by Land Rover to accommodate the longer engine.
Ed asked for a picture, so posted a picture of this X-Austrian Fire Brigade 109 (with the OM617) on the thread: OM617 motor swap need some advice.
He's also working on the same conversion in a 1967 NADA 109 that came with the North American Rover 6 cylinder (with Westlake Head).
rdavisinva
01-08-2012, 04:30 PM #12We used the stock 109 transmission and transfer case.
This 109 unlike the 88s and 109s that had the 2.25 4 cyl, came with a Euro Rover I-O-E 6 cyl.
The bulkhead on this 109 is concave by an extra 2" and the transmission was moved back by Land Rover to accommodate the longer engine.
Ed asked for a picture, so posted a picture of this X-Austrian Fire Brigade 109 (with the OM617) on the thread: OM617 motor swap need some advice.
He's also working on the same conversion in a 1967 NADA 109 that came with the North American Rover 6 cylinder (with Westlake Head).
I have been searching German and UK eBay for a 5 speed to put in our W123 300TD wagon and no joy.
So started looking at other 5 speed options.
Was thinking about the World Class (WC) 5 speeds found in the Ford Mustangs from 89 on because it's rare if the Pick-N-Pulls don't have 1 or 2.
After making the adapter and flywheel for the Land Rover 109 gained a lot of knowledge and think it would not be too hard to make an adapter to install a 5 speed in a W123. The WC comes in lots of different ratios: close ratio, standard ratio, or whatever they call them all.
Do you like the 5 speed?
If you were to change to another 5 speed would you try and match it as close to the ratios in your wagon or change it to be lower or higher in some gears?
Do you have a euro spec manual with the gear ratios for your wagon that you can post?
Lastly, should we start another thread for this because my engine is now starting... am thinking we should, but am new so what do you think???
Robert
rdavisinva
01-09-2012, 08:22 PM #13On another note, willbhere4u, (guess it's OK to hijack a thread that I started, even if after this post we jump over and start a new thread), noticed you have a 1985 300td euro 5spd wagon.
I have been searching German and UK eBay for a 5 speed to put in our W123 300TD wagon and no joy.
So started looking at other 5 speed options.
Was thinking about the World Class (WC) 5 speeds found in the Ford Mustangs from 89 on because it's rare if the Pick-N-Pulls don't have 1 or 2.
After making the adapter and flywheel for the Land Rover 109 gained a lot of knowledge and think it would not be too hard to make an adapter to install a 5 speed in a W123. The WC comes in lots of different ratios: close ratio, standard ratio, or whatever they call them all.
Do you like the 5 speed?
If you were to change to another 5 speed would you try and match it as close to the ratios in your wagon or change it to be lower or higher in some gears?
Do you have a euro spec manual with the gear ratios for your wagon that you can post?
Lastly, should we start another thread for this because my engine is now starting... am thinking we should, but am new so what do you think???
Robert
4th is still 1-1 but 5th is overdrive I'm not sure about the ratio though but 75 mph at 2700 rpm is nice!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
01-09-2012, 09:42 PM #15yea I like the five speed its great for highway cruising
4th is still 1-1 but 5th is overdrive I'm not sure about the ratio though but 75 mph at 2700 rpm is nice!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
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