240D help please
240D help please
I just acquired this car and it's been sitting since my granddad passed away 2-3 years ago. It starts great, idles a bit rough but smooths out once it warms up. The only engine related problem that I know of are multiple vacuum leaks. Unfortunately, I can't ask Granddad how it ran when he drove it.
Besides a valve adjustment, what could be the problem?
82 240D
I know the 240's aren't fast, but what is a realistic highway speed for an 82 240D with an auto tranny(133,000 miles)? I took this car out of my neighborhood for the first time yesterday and could not maintain 60mph(unless going down hill), it could barely maintain 55mph with the pedal on the floor. When I got on the road, it ran smooth, just weak, it did't seem to stutter or act like it was starved for fuel but I don't have much experience with diesels.
I just acquired this car and it's been sitting since my granddad passed away 2-3 years ago. It starts great, idles a bit rough but smooths out once it warms up. The only engine related problem that I know of are multiple vacuum leaks. Unfortunately, I can't ask Granddad how it ran when he drove it.
Besides a valve adjustment, what could be the problem?
82 240D
When I had bought my 300TDT it went max. 64mph with floored pedal.
After driving home 1500miles within 24 hours it went 90mph when floored.
But of course you should do all the service stuff like valve adjustment, filter change,...
Gruß
Volker
Could be soot covered engine internals.
When I had bought my 300TDT it went max. 64mph with floored pedal.
After driving home 1500miles within 24 hours it went 90mph when floored.
But of course you should do all the service stuff like valve adjustment, filter change,...
Gruß
Volker
Tank has a screen in it too. That acts like a filter. So you can swap the supply/return fuel lines for a bit to try and flush that out. Just make sure there's fuel in the tank cause the return line is like 2-3 gallons up from the bottom
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Got clean fuel filters? Get them for like $15
Tank has a screen in it too. That acts like a filter. So you can swap the supply/return fuel lines for a bit to try and flush that out. Just make sure there's fuel in the tank cause the return line is like 2-3 gallons up from the bottom
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(01-03-2012, 03:25 PM)larsalan Got clean fuel filters? Get them for like $15
Tank has a screen in it too. That acts like a filter. So you can swap the supply/return fuel lines for a bit to try and flush that out. Just make sure there's fuel in the tank cause the return line is like 2-3 gallons up from the bottom
The other persons who replied are correct, but would also have someone sit in the car (with the engine not running) and push down on the accelerator pedal while you look under the hood to make sure that the throttle linkages are actually moving freely.
Two things to watch:
(1) where the linkage comes through the firewall there is a big bushing attached to the rod (where your pushing motion on the pedal gets converted to a twisting motion in the linkages). This can detiorate and slip... though usually when that happens the pieces separate and the performance will be even worse than what you describe.
(2) and, most importantly, verify that the vertical linkage at the injection pump is moving up and down to its full extent.
You may not even be opening the throttle fully as it stands now. Some cars go for years with the linkage misadjusted or binding somewhere.
If you have not done so aleady, it won't hurt to lubricate all the ball-and-socket joints either, to ensure everything's moving smoothly.
Granddad probably wouldn't have noticed if things weren't up to snuff, performance wise....
(01-03-2012, 03:25 PM)larsalan Got clean fuel filters? Get them for like $15
Tank has a screen in it too. That acts like a filter. So you can swap the supply/return fuel lines for a bit to try and flush that out. Just make sure there's fuel in the tank cause the return line is like 2-3 gallons up from the bottom
The other persons who replied are correct, but would also have someone sit in the car (with the engine not running) and push down on the accelerator pedal while you look under the hood to make sure that the throttle linkages are actually moving freely.
Two things to watch:
(1) where the linkage comes through the firewall there is a big bushing attached to the rod (where your pushing motion on the pedal gets converted to a twisting motion in the linkages). This can detiorate and slip... though usually when that happens the pieces separate and the performance will be even worse than what you describe.
(2) and, most importantly, verify that the vertical linkage at the injection pump is moving up and down to its full extent.
You may not even be opening the throttle fully as it stands now. Some cars go for years with the linkage misadjusted or binding somewhere.
If you have not done so aleady, it won't hurt to lubricate all the ball-and-socket joints either, to ensure everything's moving smoothly.
Granddad probably wouldn't have noticed if things weren't up to snuff, performance wise....
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
01-04-2012, 01:21 AM #6I think daily italian tune-ups for a couple days might solve the problem, also fresh diesel
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
It's a 240d automatic.
Lol
As they said filters and it should run better. You may be able to hit 70
-Jesse
80 300sd hy35, front mount intercooler, w115 intake, rack limiter removed, Alda removed, full load turned up, boost, ebp, trans, pyro, egr delete, 3.5" exhaust, e-fan, 16x8 rims with, 245/50 tires, lowered, bilstien 5100's, 12" front brakes, 2.65:1 diff.
97 f250 psd 4x4, crawler
70 f250 390
83 Volvo 242, lots of mods
66 Volvo amazon
10 mistsubishi fuso service truck.
Oh i know what's wrong...
It's a 240d automatic.
Lol
As they said filters and it should run better. You may be able to hit 70
-Jesse
80 300sd hy35, front mount intercooler, w115 intake, rack limiter removed, Alda removed, full load turned up, boost, ebp, trans, pyro, egr delete, 3.5" exhaust, e-fan, 16x8 rims with, 245/50 tires, lowered, bilstien 5100's, 12" front brakes, 2.65:1 diff.
97 f250 psd 4x4, crawler
70 f250 390
83 Volvo 242, lots of mods
66 Volvo amazon
10 mistsubishi fuso service truck.
Before you begin messing around with mechanics such as linkage, run some good fuel and cetane booster through the vehicle and get on the highway with it! Otherwise you will lose your "starting point" and mess things up and cause you grief later. Ask me how I know!!
jonbobshinigin
01-04-2012, 11:54 PM #8Haha, I got a good chuckle out of that!!
Before you begin messing around with mechanics such as linkage, run some good fuel and cetane booster through the vehicle and get on the highway with it! Otherwise you will lose your "starting point" and mess things up and cause you grief later. Ask me how I know!!
(01-04-2012, 11:54 PM)jonbobshinigin ...run some good fuel and cetane booster through the vehicle and get on the highway with it!...
"good cetane booster" = Diesel Kleen Cetane Boost, sold at WalMart and most truck stops. They sell a gray bottle and a white bottle, the gray is said to be for summer use, but I use nothing but gray all year round (temperatures seldom get below 25 F here). Add to fuel as directed.
Or, Lubro Moly Super Diesel Additive (also known as "Hi Test") is also good. Sold at NAPA stores, NAPA part number LM2002, but usually they have to special-order it from their local regional distribution center.
Also I add about 1 ounce per tankful, of Red Line SL-1 fuel injector cleaner, sold at most auto parts houses (CarQuest was where I bought my last bottle). For the first use, add 2 ounces.
If you put two fresh fuel filters (the inline and the screw-on) on it, and then add either the Diesel Kleen or the Lubro Moly as per label instructions, and two ounces of SL-1, to a tankful (always buy your diesel at a station which does a high volume of business, so you get fresh fuel), it'll clean the fuel system up well enough that after the one tankful you'll know if a dirty fuel system was part or all of the problem.
The ultimate cure for a dirty fuel system (besides cleaning the screen in the fuel tank) is said to be a "diesel purge" using Lubro Moly Diesel Purge, which is also sold by NAPA (I forget the part number, but it's either one higher or one lower than the part number of LM Super Diesel Additive). See instructions at
http://www.dieselgiant.com/injectorcleaning.htm
I add this mixture to my fuel (but, edited January 6th: read the rest of this thread. There is a report that Diesel Kleen may be harmful to original fuel systems, particularly the primer pump, and possibly the original non-Viton rubber parts in the injector pump. My IP has been rebuilt using Viton rubber parts, so my pump would not be affected; I have not yet taken a close look at my primer pump.):
1 ounce StarTron Enzyme Fuel Treatment For All Diesel Engines (sold at boating supply stores or online) (eliminates algae)
1-1/2 ounces hardware store acetone (cleaning solvent, and eliminates condensation water from the fuel tank)
1-1/2 ounces hardware store spirits of gum turpentine (not turpentine substitute!) (cleaning solvent, and raises cetane rating slightly)
1-1/2 ounces Red Line SL-1 (injector cleaner)
4 ounces Marvel Mystery Oil ($14 a gallon at WalMart) (solvent, excellent lubricant, and is said to reduce carbon buildup in cylinders)
7 ounces Diesel Kleen gray bottle (cetane rating booster)
This is enough to treat 20 gallons of #2 diesel. So if you're filling up, and you expect to add 10 gallons, add about 8 ounces of this mixture. Don't add much more or your idle will be slightly roughened. Store the mixture in glass (I use a molasses bottle), it'll eat the plastic which clear bottles are made of.
I've been adding this mixture for ~30,000 miles now and my engine absolutely purrs. I have never done a diesel purge, yet can balance a nickel on my valve cover at idle (engine had a complete overhaul by MBZ 130,000 miles ago, fuel pump was overhauled by Tacoma Diesel 40,000 miles ago, and it has new Monark 261 injector nozzles from mercedessource.com, set to pop at 131 bar). I have never changed my fuel filters in all this time.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
01-05-2012, 01:04 AM #9(01-04-2012, 11:54 PM)jonbobshinigin ...run some good fuel and cetane booster through the vehicle and get on the highway with it!...
"good cetane booster" = Diesel Kleen Cetane Boost, sold at WalMart and most truck stops. They sell a gray bottle and a white bottle, the gray is said to be for summer use, but I use nothing but gray all year round (temperatures seldom get below 25 F here). Add to fuel as directed.
Or, Lubro Moly Super Diesel Additive (also known as "Hi Test") is also good. Sold at NAPA stores, NAPA part number LM2002, but usually they have to special-order it from their local regional distribution center.
Also I add about 1 ounce per tankful, of Red Line SL-1 fuel injector cleaner, sold at most auto parts houses (CarQuest was where I bought my last bottle). For the first use, add 2 ounces.
If you put two fresh fuel filters (the inline and the screw-on) on it, and then add either the Diesel Kleen or the Lubro Moly as per label instructions, and two ounces of SL-1, to a tankful (always buy your diesel at a station which does a high volume of business, so you get fresh fuel), it'll clean the fuel system up well enough that after the one tankful you'll know if a dirty fuel system was part or all of the problem.
The ultimate cure for a dirty fuel system (besides cleaning the screen in the fuel tank) is said to be a "diesel purge" using Lubro Moly Diesel Purge, which is also sold by NAPA (I forget the part number, but it's either one higher or one lower than the part number of LM Super Diesel Additive). See instructions at
http://www.dieselgiant.com/injectorcleaning.htm
I add this mixture to my fuel (but, edited January 6th: read the rest of this thread. There is a report that Diesel Kleen may be harmful to original fuel systems, particularly the primer pump, and possibly the original non-Viton rubber parts in the injector pump. My IP has been rebuilt using Viton rubber parts, so my pump would not be affected; I have not yet taken a close look at my primer pump.):
1 ounce StarTron Enzyme Fuel Treatment For All Diesel Engines (sold at boating supply stores or online) (eliminates algae)
1-1/2 ounces hardware store acetone (cleaning solvent, and eliminates condensation water from the fuel tank)
1-1/2 ounces hardware store spirits of gum turpentine (not turpentine substitute!) (cleaning solvent, and raises cetane rating slightly)
1-1/2 ounces Red Line SL-1 (injector cleaner)
4 ounces Marvel Mystery Oil ($14 a gallon at WalMart) (solvent, excellent lubricant, and is said to reduce carbon buildup in cylinders)
7 ounces Diesel Kleen gray bottle (cetane rating booster)
This is enough to treat 20 gallons of #2 diesel. So if you're filling up, and you expect to add 10 gallons, add about 8 ounces of this mixture. Don't add much more or your idle will be slightly roughened. Store the mixture in glass (I use a molasses bottle), it'll eat the plastic which clear bottles are made of.
I've been adding this mixture for ~30,000 miles now and my engine absolutely purrs. I have never done a diesel purge, yet can balance a nickel on my valve cover at idle (engine had a complete overhaul by MBZ 130,000 miles ago, fuel pump was overhauled by Tacoma Diesel 40,000 miles ago, and it has new Monark 261 injector nozzles from mercedessource.com, set to pop at 131 bar). I have never changed my fuel filters in all this time.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
(01-03-2012, 03:25 PM)larsalan Got clean fuel filters? Get them for like $15Should I reverse the lines after I change the filter to avoid returning crud to the tank? It's got a full tank of fresh fuel and a double dose of fuel cetane booster.
Tank has a screen in it too. That acts like a filter. So you can swap the supply/return fuel lines for a bit to try and flush that out. Just make sure there's fuel in the tank cause the return line is like 2-3 gallons up from the bottom
(01-03-2012, 04:40 PM)zachariasWell, that bushing you mentioned on the linkage is pretty much trashed, so it's not helping matters, but I will have to get my wife to mash the pedal while I try to move the linkage further. I will add the injector cleaner and replace that bushing and see where that puts me. Eventually I will be adjusting the valves but like a few of you said I need to eliminate other easy fixes before I complicate things.(01-03-2012, 03:25 PM)larsalan Got clean fuel filters? Get them for like $15
Tank has a screen in it too. That acts like a filter. So you can swap the supply/return fuel lines for a bit to try and flush that out. Just make sure there's fuel in the tank cause the return line is like 2-3 gallons up from the bottom
The other persons who replied are correct, but would also have someone sit in the car (with the engine not running) and push down on the accelerator pedal while you look under the hood to make sure that the throttle linkages are actually moving freely.
Two things to watch:
(1) where the linkage comes through the firewall there is a big bushing attached to the rod (where your pushing motion on the pedal gets converted to a twisting motion in the linkages). This can detiorate and slip... though usually when that happens the pieces separate and the performance will be even worse than what you describe.
(2) and, most importantly, verify that the vertical linkage at the injection pump is moving up and down to its full extent.
You may not even be opening the throttle fully as it stands now. Some cars go for years with the linkage misadjusted or binding somewhere.
If you have not done so aleady, it won't hurt to lubricate all the ball-and-socket joints either, to ensure everything's moving smoothly.
Granddad probably wouldn't have noticed if things weren't up to snuff, performance wise....
I would rather it not be a 240 but the price was right and fuel economy is important too.
Thanks everybody.
(01-04-2012, 01:21 AM)sassparilla_kid I think daily italian tune-ups for a couple days might solve the problem, also fresh diesel
Sorry, what's an Italian tune up?
82 240D
(01-03-2012, 03:25 PM)larsalan Got clean fuel filters? Get them for like $15Should I reverse the lines after I change the filter to avoid returning crud to the tank? It's got a full tank of fresh fuel and a double dose of fuel cetane booster.
Tank has a screen in it too. That acts like a filter. So you can swap the supply/return fuel lines for a bit to try and flush that out. Just make sure there's fuel in the tank cause the return line is like 2-3 gallons up from the bottom
(01-03-2012, 04:40 PM)zachariasWell, that bushing you mentioned on the linkage is pretty much trashed, so it's not helping matters, but I will have to get my wife to mash the pedal while I try to move the linkage further. I will add the injector cleaner and replace that bushing and see where that puts me. Eventually I will be adjusting the valves but like a few of you said I need to eliminate other easy fixes before I complicate things.(01-03-2012, 03:25 PM)larsalan Got clean fuel filters? Get them for like $15
Tank has a screen in it too. That acts like a filter. So you can swap the supply/return fuel lines for a bit to try and flush that out. Just make sure there's fuel in the tank cause the return line is like 2-3 gallons up from the bottom
The other persons who replied are correct, but would also have someone sit in the car (with the engine not running) and push down on the accelerator pedal while you look under the hood to make sure that the throttle linkages are actually moving freely.
Two things to watch:
(1) where the linkage comes through the firewall there is a big bushing attached to the rod (where your pushing motion on the pedal gets converted to a twisting motion in the linkages). This can detiorate and slip... though usually when that happens the pieces separate and the performance will be even worse than what you describe.
(2) and, most importantly, verify that the vertical linkage at the injection pump is moving up and down to its full extent.
You may not even be opening the throttle fully as it stands now. Some cars go for years with the linkage misadjusted or binding somewhere.
If you have not done so aleady, it won't hurt to lubricate all the ball-and-socket joints either, to ensure everything's moving smoothly.
Granddad probably wouldn't have noticed if things weren't up to snuff, performance wise....
I would rather it not be a 240 but the price was right and fuel economy is important too.
Thanks everybody.
(01-04-2012, 01:21 AM)sassparilla_kid I think daily italian tune-ups for a couple days might solve the problem, also fresh diesel
Sorry, what's an Italian tune up?
82 240D
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
01-05-2012, 06:16 PM #11Keep it floored for several mile up hill!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
That italian tune-up may wheel be in order and whatever else.
You'll learn to love these dirty bitches
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
I read all that injector cleaner stuff and lubro moly and heet diesel additive on msds. It's all pretty well 98% naphtha. And some other stuff that is in varnish remover, benzine or some such. Not saying that stuff is really snake oil. I run all kind of petroleum related stuff in an om617. Just don't think I would put that much stock in any $8 a can stuff. If you find half a can for free or whatever great.
That italian tune-up may wheel be in order and whatever else.
You'll learn to love these dirty bitches
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
BG 44K and Red Line SL-1 are the only two injector cleaners I know of which actually work; I've saved dozens of friends and relatives from $1500 fuel injection system takedown-and-cleanout shop repair bills by simply pouring a few ounces of SL-1 in the tank. 44K also works dramatically well but is extravagantly priced, much more expensive than SL-1. You don't really need to use as much SL-1 as the label recommends. SL-1 has a lot of PEA in it, whatever that is.
LM SDA is, in the opinion of not just of me but in fact of all local indy Benz shops, the best standalone diesel fuel additive, but it's expensive. Which is why I prefer Diesel Kleen.
In practice I don't add my mixture to every tankful, just every 2nd or 3rd one. This seems to be adequate. If I skip three fillups, on the third one I can notice the roughened idle and reduced passing power. Sometimes I don't add it because I simply forget, sometimes I'm more than a tankful from home and I run out, and sometimes I just don't want to get the peculiar minty smell of Marvel Mystery Oil on my hands.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
01-06-2012, 02:05 AM #13Agreed, most fuel additives are snake oil. LM Super Diesel Additive and Red Line SL-1 are not.
BG 44K and Red Line SL-1 are the only two injector cleaners I know of which actually work; I've saved dozens of friends and relatives from $1500 fuel injection system takedown-and-cleanout shop repair bills by simply pouring a few ounces of SL-1 in the tank. 44K also works dramatically well but is extravagantly priced, much more expensive than SL-1. You don't really need to use as much SL-1 as the label recommends. SL-1 has a lot of PEA in it, whatever that is.
LM SDA is, in the opinion of not just of me but in fact of all local indy Benz shops, the best standalone diesel fuel additive, but it's expensive. Which is why I prefer Diesel Kleen.
In practice I don't add my mixture to every tankful, just every 2nd or 3rd one. This seems to be adequate. If I skip three fillups, on the third one I can notice the roughened idle and reduced passing power. Sometimes I don't add it because I simply forget, sometimes I'm more than a tankful from home and I run out, and sometimes I just don't want to get the peculiar minty smell of Marvel Mystery Oil on my hands.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
Ive even ran small amounts of gasoline in a full tank.
It all definetly helps...in my opinion.
And daily italian tune-ups work MAGICAL wonders
1987 300D: EGR Delete, ARV Delete, Cold Air Intake...
Lubromolly, Diesel kleen, Seafoam, its all really good stuff in my opinion.
Ive even ran small amounts of gasoline in a full tank.
It all definetly helps...in my opinion.
And daily italian tune-ups work MAGICAL wonders
1987 300D: EGR Delete, ARV Delete, Cold Air Intake...
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
01-06-2012, 03:22 AM #15Seafoam, that's something I've never tried. I know that chainsaw and lawn mower and portable generator repair shops around here swear by Seafoam, they say it helps get these devices' small engines started which have sat a long time and have old sour fuel in 'em like magic.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
I am not here to give any sh!t, hear any sh!t nor will I tolerate any bit of it. I'm an OM617 Mercedes Benz Diesel enthusiast interested in helping those I can that are willing to read my words and give it their time and effort. Just to see the Mercedes Benz possibly live another day.
I would reccomend the items previously mentioned + more
1. Tank strainer (If it's not new, It's near 100% guaranteed trash)
2. Tank strainer to metal fuel hose (Aged, Will need replacing when removed)
3. Inline fuel filter
4. Canister type fuel filter + O-ring/s
5. Fuel line (Return line + hose to/from inline fiilter)
6. Air filter (Paper element HIGHLY reccomended)
7. Injector return lines
8. Throttle linkage bushing
9. Vacuum hose
All parts can be purchased for a bit less than $60 and OEM
Doesn't get any better than that except these are all tasks you can take on yourself and complete in about an hour. The only hard part that I see is that the fuel tank strainer requires a modified socket due to clearance issues. (Arrangements can be made to mail you mine)
1982 300SuperDecel (W126)
THE BEST OR NOTHING
TexasSuperDecel
01-06-2012, 03:46 AM #16I own a very high mileage, well maintained 1982 300SD (1st owner was my dad) and the only problems it has given us has been ruined Bosch Diesel/Hand Primer Pump(S!) and has only occured after using Diesel Kleen Cetane Booster. There have never been any other additives fed to the engine besides what is used at the station to preserve the fuel in tanks and Lubro-Molys DieselPurge which was induction fed = not added to fuel tank, fed to injection pump @ 100% strength. The station which we buy fuel at we own and the car is driven to collect $ from station to station (3). I have tried adding a partial amount of DK to a 5 gallon fuel jug at a time and shaking it to mix it thoroughly but I have yet to have luck besides success spending money buying/replacing the primer pumps (3+). I am not trying to disrupt any purchases of items you may be looking toward just sharing REAL personal, honest, un-exaggerated experience.
I am not here to give any sh!t, hear any sh!t nor will I tolerate any bit of it. I'm an OM617 Mercedes Benz Diesel enthusiast interested in helping those I can that are willing to read my words and give it their time and effort. Just to see the Mercedes Benz possibly live another day.
I would reccomend the items previously mentioned + more
1. Tank strainer (If it's not new, It's near 100% guaranteed trash)
2. Tank strainer to metal fuel hose (Aged, Will need replacing when removed)
3. Inline fuel filter
4. Canister type fuel filter + O-ring/s
5. Fuel line (Return line + hose to/from inline fiilter)
6. Air filter (Paper element HIGHLY reccomended)
7. Injector return lines
8. Throttle linkage bushing
9. Vacuum hose
All parts can be purchased for a bit less than $60 and OEM Doesn't get any better than that except these are all tasks you can take on yourself and complete in about an hour. The only hard part that I see is that the fuel tank strainer requires a modified socket due to clearance issues. (Arrangements can be made to mail you mine)
1982 300SuperDecel (W126)
THE BEST OR NOTHING
(01-06-2012, 03:46 AM)TexasSuperDecel I own a very high mileage, well maintained 1982 300SD (1st owner was my dad) and the only problems it has given us has been ruined Bosch Diesel/Hand Primer Pump(S!) and has only occured after using Diesel Kleen Cetane Booster...
Very interesting. Gray bottle or white bottle?
I dimly remember, back when I was looking into fuel additives, someone warned me about the white bottle Diesel Kleen. But I forget what the issue is --lack of lubricity? I concluded, gray bottle as indicated in my recipe is the right stuff to use, and MMO would ensure adequate lubrication.
I do plan to in the not too distant future swap out my MW pump for an M pump, and dismantle the MW pump. It will be interesting to see if any damage has occurred.
Did you ever find out what, exactly, failed?
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
01-06-2012, 03:55 AM #17(01-06-2012, 03:46 AM)TexasSuperDecel I own a very high mileage, well maintained 1982 300SD (1st owner was my dad) and the only problems it has given us has been ruined Bosch Diesel/Hand Primer Pump(S!) and has only occured after using Diesel Kleen Cetane Booster...
Very interesting. Gray bottle or white bottle?
I dimly remember, back when I was looking into fuel additives, someone warned me about the white bottle Diesel Kleen. But I forget what the issue is --lack of lubricity? I concluded, gray bottle as indicated in my recipe is the right stuff to use, and MMO would ensure adequate lubrication.
I do plan to in the not too distant future swap out my MW pump for an M pump, and dismantle the MW pump. It will be interesting to see if any damage has occurred.
Did you ever find out what, exactly, failed?
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
No I did not determine exactly what was damaged internally in the primer pump assembly. I am to assume it is not compatible with its internal rubber components as for there are many types of rubber which are and aren't compatible with certain fuel additives or types. And recently Mercedes Benz re-designed the primer and states it is "may not" be compatible for use with bio-diesel or blended-diesel fuels. I install and maintain high pressure lubrication systems for Alemite / Stewart Warner
with Kendall, Valvoline, Castrol products. + waste containment or storage for motor oil, grease, antifreeze, alcohol, gasoline, diesel. Source = Wikipedia - biodiesel is compatible with diesel engines from 1994 onwards, which use 'Viton' (by DuPont) synthetic rubber in their mechanical fuel injection systems.
1982 300SuperDecel (W126)
THE BEST OR NOTHING
TexasSuperDecel
01-06-2012, 03:59 AM #18The Diesel Kleen Cetane Booster that I purchased was in a gray bottle. I use 3/4 reccomended on bottle.
No I did not determine exactly what was damaged internally in the primer pump assembly. I am to assume it is not compatible with its internal rubber components as for there are many types of rubber which are and aren't compatible with certain fuel additives or types. And recently Mercedes Benz re-designed the primer and states it is "may not" be compatible for use with bio-diesel or blended-diesel fuels. I install and maintain high pressure lubrication systems for Alemite / Stewart Warner with Kendall, Valvoline, Castrol products. + waste containment or storage for motor oil, grease, antifreeze, alcohol, gasoline, diesel.
Source = Wikipedia - biodiesel is compatible with diesel engines from 1994 onwards, which use 'Viton' (by DuPont) synthetic rubber in their mechanical fuel injection systems.
1982 300SuperDecel (W126)
THE BEST OR NOTHING
(01-06-2012, 03:59 AM)TexasSuperDecel I am to assume it is not compatible with its internal rubber components as for there are many types of rubber which are and aren't compatible with certain fuel additives or types...
It could very well be that I have unusual immunity to primer pump issues arising from fuel additives, because both of my 300D's have had the IP's rebuilt using Viton rubber, so that I can burn SVO mixtures.
Do you think putting a single tankful of #2 diesel plus the label amount of Diesel Kleen though, would endanger an unmodified (no Viton) injector pump?
(2 AM here, back in 8 or so)
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
01-06-2012, 05:08 AM #19(01-06-2012, 03:59 AM)TexasSuperDecel I am to assume it is not compatible with its internal rubber components as for there are many types of rubber which are and aren't compatible with certain fuel additives or types...
It could very well be that I have unusual immunity to primer pump issues arising from fuel additives, because both of my 300D's have had the IP's rebuilt using Viton rubber, so that I can burn SVO mixtures.
Do you think putting a single tankful of #2 diesel plus the label amount of Diesel Kleen though, would endanger an unmodified (no Viton) injector pump?
(2 AM here, back in 8 or so)
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
I really do hope this info/input is considered valuable to topic as it started of my concern for use of a product by the OP whos injection system is of the same/similar type.
A Viton sealed injection pump wouldn't keep you safe of primer pump issues "IF" Diesel Kleen is not compatible with the internals of the Bosch primer pump itself. Your injection pump would be safe though. Just not the hand push-top primer pump.
Over replacing the Bosch model with the same model if any damage was/is done I would replace it with a Heavy Duty Monark Diesel Hand Primer Pump ($32.95) or the OE Mercedes Hand Primer Pump ($13.99)
the Bosch is $15.99 if anyone wants to know but do no research. (different sources for each)
Reason being the Monark Diesel model first is due to being SPECIFICALLY made as a Mercedes Benz replacement and revised of the 30+ YEARS of the OEM models faults. Built of quality components and compatible with alternate fuels such as bio-diesel and SVO to actually be the LAST replacement. Not to mention they are diesel experts.
The OE Mercedes (unscrew to pump) used from 1977-85 according to my sources which is a bit before Viton still has the flaws it had when it was originally designed. Less tolerant of alternates and additives. Over time they leak being the source for air in the fuel lines and as you think your priming it out you're letting it in. Try driving then.. You'll most likely have to wait for a pump primer in the mail. And PLEASE don't think your stations don't use any additives. Even worse they are highly concentrated. Make diesel look like water, some corrosive, skin contact warnings and usually used in excess of what is needed to control the issue. Even label reccomended amounts are somtimes overkill as atleast some amount of additive is still in the fuel that is in the tank below ground with a % of additive that does NOT get pumped out of the tank because the pick up tube is not on the bottom to avoid water or other contaminants that may be present. What they added the time before + the time before + more additive to control a different problem that may exist and there are a few common + diesel antifreezes just doesnt look like it's on this pumps side either.
I think I may have increased the wear by using the primer with the additive present.
Maybe you don't use your pump as often as I which is 3 times daily after a fluid check but before the first start and 3-5 times per tank fill which is not required every fill as I didn't get near E to allow any air into the lines but as I'm checking AllTheFluids Why not? It's going to hope it works when I need it. I know there are many factors following my "ASSUMPTIONS" and I personally have not read any ingredients, done any research, experiments or tests as far as compatability. I gave away the rest of what I had purchased since I don't need the problems I "think" it caused me and I have had no problems since.
A test I'd try would be to put diesel into a clear container, add Diesel Kleen and limited shaking let it sit for 3-5 days to see what it does. Being made of similar fuels it may mix but how well? My example being chocolate milk. If it does settle at the bottom of the container even slightly I would be weary as the primer is nearly the lowest point and the car sitting for a period of time or after the "Italian tune up" you gave it might just help it make its way in a little deeper allowing it to eat at, penetrate, increase wear and be in direct contact with whatever it MIGHT be damaging. Concentrated contact like so surely cannot help if not compatible.
I AM NO EXPERT - ONLY ASSUMPTIONS BEING GIVEN BUT I DO KNOW THE OEM PUMPS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH BIO-DIESEL OR BLENDED-DIESEL OR SVO AS I DO WORK IN THE "OIL/FUEL FIELD" I HAVE REPLACED MANY AIR OPERATED PUMPS DUE TO NON-COMPLIANT ADDITIVES / CHEMICALS BEING USED. EVEN IN SMALL AMOUNT LESS THAN 1/4 LABEL STRENGTH. I'm only trying to look out for my fellow Mercedes Benz owners. Hope to see you guys rolling/ preferrably spoooolin' down the road.
-TexasSuperDecel
1982 300SuperDecel (W126)
THE BEST OR NOTHING
TexasSuperDecel
01-06-2012, 08:47 AM #20Are you trying to see if I am a salesman of some type?
I really do hope this info/input is considered valuable to topic as it started of my concern for use of a product by the OP whos injection system is of the same/similar type.
A Viton sealed injection pump wouldn't keep you safe of primer pump issues "IF" Diesel Kleen is not compatible with the internals of the Bosch primer pump itself. Your injection pump would be safe though. Just not the hand push-top primer pump.
Over replacing the Bosch model with the same model if any damage was/is done I would replace it with a Heavy Duty Monark Diesel Hand Primer Pump ($32.95) or the OE Mercedes Hand Primer Pump ($13.99)
the Bosch is $15.99 if anyone wants to know but do no research. (different sources for each)
Reason being the Monark Diesel model first is due to being SPECIFICALLY made as a Mercedes Benz replacement and revised of the 30+ YEARS of the OEM models faults. Built of quality components and compatible with alternate fuels such as bio-diesel and SVO to actually be the LAST replacement. Not to mention they are diesel experts.
The OE Mercedes (unscrew to pump) used from 1977-85 according to my sources which is a bit before Viton still has the flaws it had when it was originally designed. Less tolerant of alternates and additives. Over time they leak being the source for air in the fuel lines and as you think your priming it out you're letting it in. Try driving then.. You'll most likely have to wait for a pump primer in the mail. And PLEASE don't think your stations don't use any additives. Even worse they are highly concentrated. Make diesel look like water, some corrosive, skin contact warnings and usually used in excess of what is needed to control the issue. Even label reccomended amounts are somtimes overkill as atleast some amount of additive is still in the fuel that is in the tank below ground with a % of additive that does NOT get pumped out of the tank because the pick up tube is not on the bottom to avoid water or other contaminants that may be present. What they added the time before + the time before + more additive to control a different problem that may exist and there are a few common + diesel antifreezes just doesnt look like it's on this pumps side either.
I think I may have increased the wear by using the primer with the additive present.
Maybe you don't use your pump as often as I which is 3 times daily after a fluid check but before the first start and 3-5 times per tank fill which is not required every fill as I didn't get near E to allow any air into the lines but as I'm checking AllTheFluids Why not? It's going to hope it works when I need it. I know there are many factors following my "ASSUMPTIONS" and I personally have not read any ingredients, done any research, experiments or tests as far as compatability. I gave away the rest of what I had purchased since I don't need the problems I "think" it caused me and I have had no problems since.
A test I'd try would be to put diesel into a clear container, add Diesel Kleen and limited shaking let it sit for 3-5 days to see what it does. Being made of similar fuels it may mix but how well? My example being chocolate milk. If it does settle at the bottom of the container even slightly I would be weary as the primer is nearly the lowest point and the car sitting for a period of time or after the "Italian tune up" you gave it might just help it make its way in a little deeper allowing it to eat at, penetrate, increase wear and be in direct contact with whatever it MIGHT be damaging. Concentrated contact like so surely cannot help if not compatible.
I AM NO EXPERT - ONLY ASSUMPTIONS BEING GIVEN BUT I DO KNOW THE OEM PUMPS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH BIO-DIESEL OR BLENDED-DIESEL OR SVO AS I DO WORK IN THE "OIL/FUEL FIELD" I HAVE REPLACED MANY AIR OPERATED PUMPS DUE TO NON-COMPLIANT ADDITIVES / CHEMICALS BEING USED. EVEN IN SMALL AMOUNT LESS THAN 1/4 LABEL STRENGTH. I'm only trying to look out for my fellow Mercedes Benz owners. Hope to see you guys rolling/ preferrably spoooolin' down the road.
-TexasSuperDecel
1982 300SuperDecel (W126)
THE BEST OR NOTHING
(01-06-2012, 08:47 AM)TexasSuperDecel Are you trying to see if I am a salesman of some type?
Well, no, just trying to see if I am an unthinking destroyer of some type, i.e. I was wondering if following my advice (to add Diesel Kleen gray + SL-1 and see if it improves within a single tankful) would lead to fehron having a problem.
Thanks for the detailed heads-up; I will take a look at my primer pump this weekend, weather permitting. It is possible that my primer pump was replaced at the same time as the injector pump was overhauled, on both cars. Tacoma Diesel does first-class work. It would not surprise me if they replaced my primer pump with either the Monark or an OEM Mercedes.
I have never had to use the primer pump, so if my mixture has caused it to fail I am unaware of it. Aside from a problem starting in below-freezing weather with the EGR+ARV disconnected, which was cured by replacing the valve cover ventilation elbow which was cracked, my 300D has always started right up and run just fine; no need to wait for the glow plugs if the water temp needle is up at all. I haven't taken a compression check, but even 136,000 miles after the overhaul there is no timing chain stretch, no visible wear on the cam lobes, and almost no blowby (heh...I hesitate to reveal, what I am using for motor oil). During the daytime there is no visible smoke, but if I floor it at night I can see just a very faint cloud in the headlights in my rear view mirror.
I did try the jar experiment with my mixture. Six months later there was no visible separation, and I needed the shelf space, so poured it in my tank.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
01-06-2012, 04:03 PM #21(01-06-2012, 08:47 AM)TexasSuperDecel Are you trying to see if I am a salesman of some type?
Well, no, just trying to see if I am an unthinking destroyer of some type, i.e. I was wondering if following my advice (to add Diesel Kleen gray + SL-1 and see if it improves within a single tankful) would lead to fehron having a problem.
Thanks for the detailed heads-up; I will take a look at my primer pump this weekend, weather permitting. It is possible that my primer pump was replaced at the same time as the injector pump was overhauled, on both cars. Tacoma Diesel does first-class work. It would not surprise me if they replaced my primer pump with either the Monark or an OEM Mercedes.
I have never had to use the primer pump, so if my mixture has caused it to fail I am unaware of it. Aside from a problem starting in below-freezing weather with the EGR+ARV disconnected, which was cured by replacing the valve cover ventilation elbow which was cracked, my 300D has always started right up and run just fine; no need to wait for the glow plugs if the water temp needle is up at all. I haven't taken a compression check, but even 136,000 miles after the overhaul there is no timing chain stretch, no visible wear on the cam lobes, and almost no blowby (heh...I hesitate to reveal, what I am using for motor oil). During the daytime there is no visible smoke, but if I floor it at night I can see just a very faint cloud in the headlights in my rear view mirror.
I did try the jar experiment with my mixture. Six months later there was no visible separation, and I needed the shelf space, so poured it in my tank.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
We had a 300TD wagon that did a similar thing.
To fix it, I got rid of the little primary filter and bought a CAV sediment trap on eBay UK for English diesels. Then hooked the sediment trap to the metal feed line in the engine bay, then routed the fuel to a low pressure 12V fuel pump (5psi), then to the lift pump.
Changed the spin-on fuel filter and problem was solved.
A year later checked the sediment trap and it had several inches of trapped rust particles, so cleaned it out and put it back in place. The same spin-on filter has never been changed.
You might want to check the screen in the tank to see if it is full of trash.
If someone experimented with veg oil, it will loosen a lot of tank sludge that will initially clog the fuel system.
Hope this helps,
Robert
rdavisinva
01-08-2012, 04:44 PM #22fehron:
We had a 300TD wagon that did a similar thing.
To fix it, I got rid of the little primary filter and bought a CAV sediment trap on eBay UK for English diesels. Then hooked the sediment trap to the metal feed line in the engine bay, then routed the fuel to a low pressure 12V fuel pump (5psi), then to the lift pump.
Changed the spin-on fuel filter and problem was solved.
A year later checked the sediment trap and it had several inches of trapped rust particles, so cleaned it out and put it back in place. The same spin-on filter has never been changed.
You might want to check the screen in the tank to see if it is full of trash.
If someone experimented with veg oil, it will loosen a lot of tank sludge that will initially clog the fuel system.
Hope this helps,
Robert
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