Delivery valves
Delivery valves
03-01-2010, 02:55 PM
#151
1981 300SD 230k miles "Gently Modified" Daily Driver
1999 F-250 7.3L Power Stroke 150k miles "The Usual Mods" Tow Rig
1981 300SD 190k miles "Heavily Modified"
GONE
DrewGerhan
03-01-2010, 02:55 PM #151I talked to my shop teacher today and he said that he would be willing to help my with the use of a lather to try to get some precision in removing a part of the collar. I was thinking about reducing the height of it by half. Others totally removed it buy he says that we can get to .0001" so I guess its worth a shot. Is it correct to assume that since I'm only removing half, it should be the bottom half of the collar?
1981 300SD 230k miles "Gently Modified" Daily Driver
1999 F-250 7.3L Power Stroke 150k miles "The Usual Mods" Tow Rig
1981 300SD 190k miles "Heavily Modified"
GONE
03-01-2010, 07:13 PM
#153
![[Image: OM617DeliveryValveSlotted.jpg]](http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa246/drewgerhan/OM617DeliveryValveSlotted.jpg)
The yellow section is the collar right? I should remove the part of the collar that is closest to the cone?
1981 300SD 230k miles "Gently Modified" Daily Driver
1999 F-250 7.3L Power Stroke 150k miles "The Usual Mods" Tow Rig
1981 300SD 190k miles "Heavily Modified"
GONE
DrewGerhan
03-01-2010, 07:13 PM #153
The yellow section is the collar right? I should remove the part of the collar that is closest to the cone?
1981 300SD 230k miles "Gently Modified" Daily Driver
1999 F-250 7.3L Power Stroke 150k miles "The Usual Mods" Tow Rig
1981 300SD 190k miles "Heavily Modified"
GONE
03-02-2010, 01:26 AM
#154
But keep in mind that the plunger (the parts in your photo) is matched to the barrel. Do not mix up.
Tom
no, basically the collar has to be narrow and should be located cole to the cone. Modifying means cutting away a part of the collar on the lower part (in your photo).
But keep in mind that the plunger (the parts in your photo) is matched to the barrel. Do not mix up.
Tom
10-27-2010, 11:24 PM
#155
While looking at the valve I had an idea. What if you took the valve to a vertical mill and reduced the flute thickness? Wouldn't this effectively allow more fuel the be in the "chamber" and eventually allow more to reach the cylinder per stroke/injection? Any thoughts?
1981 300SD 230k miles "Gently Modified" Daily Driver
1999 F-250 7.3L Power Stroke 150k miles "The Usual Mods" Tow Rig
1981 300SD 190k miles "Heavily Modified"
GONE
DrewGerhan
10-27-2010, 11:24 PM #155So I finally got around to bringing some valves down to school and taking them to my professor. He says we try grinding the collar. He wants to grind down one of the carbide grooving tips to the correct width so that we can just take one pass. I said lets go for it and try to reduce the collar "height" by half.
While looking at the valve I had an idea. What if you took the valve to a vertical mill and reduced the flute thickness? Wouldn't this effectively allow more fuel the be in the "chamber" and eventually allow more to reach the cylinder per stroke/injection? Any thoughts?
1981 300SD 230k miles "Gently Modified" Daily Driver
1999 F-250 7.3L Power Stroke 150k miles "The Usual Mods" Tow Rig
1981 300SD 190k miles "Heavily Modified"
GONE
10-28-2010, 01:29 AM
#156
(10-27-2010, 11:24 PM)DrewGerhan While looking at the valve I had an idea. What if you took the valve to a vertical mill and reduced the flute thickness? Wouldn't this effectively allow more fuel the be in the "chamber" and eventually allow more to reach the cylinder per stroke/injection? Any thoughts?
More fuel in the "chamber", yes.
More fuel to cylinders, no.
totaldisaster
10-28-2010, 01:29 AM #156(10-27-2010, 11:24 PM)DrewGerhan While looking at the valve I had an idea. What if you took the valve to a vertical mill and reduced the flute thickness? Wouldn't this effectively allow more fuel the be in the "chamber" and eventually allow more to reach the cylinder per stroke/injection? Any thoughts?
More fuel in the "chamber", yes.
More fuel to cylinders, no.
10-30-2010, 01:51 PM
#158
(10-30-2010, 12:36 PM)Olivier I cannot see any picture between the 5mm(I think) element of a 606 turbo and the 7mm.
Where is the extra 2 mm and why this is not a "plug and play" as this is only the plunger that is changed?
Cheers.
Olivier
The pics above are of the Delivery-Valve. These are NOT the Actual Plunger. Plunger lives Under the del.valve Inside the body of the pump. It cannot be removed without a full pump strip-down.
![[Image: 300TDnoplate.jpg]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/alastairhcii/300TDnoplate.jpg)
Alastair E
10-30-2010, 01:51 PM #158(10-30-2010, 12:36 PM)Olivier I cannot see any picture between the 5mm(I think) element of a 606 turbo and the 7mm.
Where is the extra 2 mm and why this is not a "plug and play" as this is only the plunger that is changed?
Cheers.
Olivier
The pics above are of the Delivery-Valve. These are NOT the Actual Plunger. Plunger lives Under the del.valve Inside the body of the pump. It cannot be removed without a full pump strip-down.
11-02-2010, 02:42 PM
#160
(10-30-2010, 02:35 PM)Olivier Oh. Thank you Alastair. Are the plunger the "large washer" style then under the DV?
About the picture, are those the elements? As I am wondering why the 7mm need to be "adjusted" by a pro shop while replacing them as it look like a swap job.
Thanks.
No, The pics of the parts above are the del.valves. The Elements/Plunger-Barrel combo lives Under the outer part of the del-valve (not pictured)
--I'm guessing the 'Large Washer Thing' you're thinking of is the Outer Part of the Del. Valve
The 'Element is comprised of two parts. The Outer part is its Barrel and the Inner part is the Plunger. The Plunger is cut with a spiral groove and sometimes the top part has a specially arranged angle too.
Here--
When these devices are changed in a pump, the position of each one is critical and they all need to be set to deliver the same amount of fuel at the same rack-position,--this is done on a Diesel-Pump test-bench, like a Hartridge 2000--The pump is motor driven and each outlet attached to graduated tubes of high accuracy through special pre-set 'injectors' The pump is driven and say, 1000 shots of fuel are delivered from each outlet on the pump The readings of fuel quantity is taken and compared to the pump 'Test-Plan' for That serial pump and at that throttle-setting.
--There are normally three different throttle/operating condition settings the fuel is checked to
--The Governor is set to these values after all elements are ballanced.
The Rollers running on the Cam (M-Type) are carefully chosen as to size (40 different sizes I believe) to allow the same point-of-injection -timing-setting for each cylinder,--the so-called, 'Phasing' adjustment.
Now--IF you Change an Element for a different Size--(And in a perfect world, all the other characteristics would be the same) then all the above settings will need to be altered and the new amount of fuelling determined for the amount of power required.
--But, The new larger elements often have different characteristics (Because they were intended for a completely different application engine) as well as their dimensions and this also must be factored into the setting of the elements/rollers and the Governor.......
Alastair E
11-02-2010, 02:42 PM #160(10-30-2010, 02:35 PM)Olivier Oh. Thank you Alastair. Are the plunger the "large washer" style then under the DV?
About the picture, are those the elements? As I am wondering why the 7mm need to be "adjusted" by a pro shop while replacing them as it look like a swap job.
Thanks.
No, The pics of the parts above are the del.valves. The Elements/Plunger-Barrel combo lives Under the outer part of the del-valve (not pictured)
--I'm guessing the 'Large Washer Thing' you're thinking of is the Outer Part of the Del. Valve
The 'Element is comprised of two parts. The Outer part is its Barrel and the Inner part is the Plunger. The Plunger is cut with a spiral groove and sometimes the top part has a specially arranged angle too.
Here--
When these devices are changed in a pump, the position of each one is critical and they all need to be set to deliver the same amount of fuel at the same rack-position,--this is done on a Diesel-Pump test-bench, like a Hartridge 2000--The pump is motor driven and each outlet attached to graduated tubes of high accuracy through special pre-set 'injectors' The pump is driven and say, 1000 shots of fuel are delivered from each outlet on the pump The readings of fuel quantity is taken and compared to the pump 'Test-Plan' for That serial pump and at that throttle-setting.
--There are normally three different throttle/operating condition settings the fuel is checked to
--The Governor is set to these values after all elements are ballanced.
The Rollers running on the Cam (M-Type) are carefully chosen as to size (40 different sizes I believe) to allow the same point-of-injection -timing-setting for each cylinder,--the so-called, 'Phasing' adjustment.
Now--IF you Change an Element for a different Size--(And in a perfect world, all the other characteristics would be the same) then all the above settings will need to be altered and the new amount of fuelling determined for the amount of power required.
--But, The new larger elements often have different characteristics (Because they were intended for a completely different application engine) as well as their dimensions and this also must be factored into the setting of the elements/rollers and the Governor.......
11-05-2010, 09:24 AM
#163
(11-05-2010, 08:16 AM)Olivier What is this banned for on your name?
Trolling.
ForcedInduction
11-05-2010, 09:24 AM
#163
(11-05-2010, 08:16 AM)Olivier What is this banned for on your name?
Trolling.
01-23-2012, 06:39 PM
#165
I took a set and 0.010 off of the collar on all of them. I had them all within 0.0005 of each other (via micrometers). No burrs on the edges. I put them in and the engine immediately tried to run away, I adjusted the vertical throttle stop up a total of 4 turns to get it to idle properly.
Things I had:
God awful idle
Very touchy throttle response
Power increase on the level of "holy shit"
High EGTs but nothing above 1200
Things I did not have:
Smoke at idle
Excessive smoke while driving
I took them out after about 30 min of driving around. Didn't bother with a 0-60 because of the small turbo choking anything above 3500 rpm. It was interesting to me that even having them all very very close size wise still doesn't clean up the idle at all. If it would have idled properly I would have left them in but I couldn't stand it any longer.
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
01-23-2012, 06:39 PM #165Figured I would dredge up this old thread with my experience.
I took a set and 0.010 off of the collar on all of them. I had them all within 0.0005 of each other (via micrometers). No burrs on the edges. I put them in and the engine immediately tried to run away, I adjusted the vertical throttle stop up a total of 4 turns to get it to idle properly.
Things I had:
God awful idle
Very touchy throttle response
Power increase on the level of "holy shit"
High EGTs but nothing above 1200
Things I did not have:
Smoke at idle
Excessive smoke while driving
I took them out after about 30 min of driving around. Didn't bother with a 0-60 because of the small turbo choking anything above 3500 rpm. It was interesting to me that even having them all very very close size wise still doesn't clean up the idle at all. If it would have idled properly I would have left them in but I couldn't stand it any longer.
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
01-23-2012, 07:28 PM
#166
(01-23-2012, 06:39 PM)led-panzer Figured I would dredge up this old thread with my experience.
I took a set and 0.010 off of the collar on all of them. I had them all within 0.0005 of each other (via micrometers). No burrs on the edges. I put them in and the engine immediately tried to run away, I adjusted the vertical throttle stop up a total of 4 turns to get it to idle properly.
Things I had:
God awful idle
Very touchy throttle response
Power increase on the level of "holy shit"
High EGTs but nothing above 1200
Things I did not have:
Smoke at idle
Excessive smoke while driving
I took them out after about 30 min of driving around. Didn't bother with a 0-60 because of the small turbo choking anything above 3500 rpm. It was interesting to me that even having them all very very close size wise still doesn't clean up the idle at all. If it would have idled properly I would have left them in but I couldn't stand it any longer.
Two things;
One, the timing will be very advanced with the cut DVs because the post injection line pressure will be much higher, therefore, it will take less time to achieve the pop pressure the next time around.
Did you try retarding the timing?
Two, the pop presser needs to be higher to reduce or eliminate the secondary injections, try 250 to 300 bar pop pressure.
(01-23-2012, 06:39 PM)led-panzer Figured I would dredge up this old thread with my experience.
I took a set and 0.010 off of the collar on all of them. I had them all within 0.0005 of each other (via micrometers). No burrs on the edges. I put them in and the engine immediately tried to run away, I adjusted the vertical throttle stop up a total of 4 turns to get it to idle properly.
Things I had:
God awful idle
Very touchy throttle response
Power increase on the level of "holy shit"
High EGTs but nothing above 1200
Things I did not have:
Smoke at idle
Excessive smoke while driving
I took them out after about 30 min of driving around. Didn't bother with a 0-60 because of the small turbo choking anything above 3500 rpm. It was interesting to me that even having them all very very close size wise still doesn't clean up the idle at all. If it would have idled properly I would have left them in but I couldn't stand it any longer.
Two things;
One, the timing will be very advanced with the cut DVs because the post injection line pressure will be much higher, therefore, it will take less time to achieve the pop pressure the next time around.
Did you try retarding the timing?
Two, the pop presser needs to be higher to reduce or eliminate the secondary injections, try 250 to 300 bar pop pressure.
01-23-2012, 09:55 PM
#167
I'm done playing with these though, I've started a piggy bank and ill be sending my M pump to Europe in a couple months.
This post was last modified: 01-23-2012, 09:59 PM by led-panzer.
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
01-23-2012, 09:55 PM #167The timing may very well play a roll. Could also explain why I didn't have that nasty smoke. I've actually never checked it so who knows where its at. Last year I was too busy with school and work to get anything done but I'm getting back into it.
I'm done playing with these though, I've started a piggy bank and ill be sending my M pump to Europe in a couple months.
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
01-24-2012, 02:48 AM
#168
It dont work on these kind of pumps / engines.
On the pumps to the pullingengine that I do, it usually works out well, but then we have alfa around 35-45 BTDC, 800-1100cc of fuel ( OM606 55-60cc) 7-12 bar of boost, Waterinjection etc etc.
Still the engine is "hunting" & smoking on low idle.
If you need moore fuel there is only one option. Bigger plungers.
dieselmeken
01-24-2012, 02:48 AM #168I have done some experiment with this and have a answer.
It dont work on these kind of pumps / engines.
On the pumps to the pullingengine that I do, it usually works out well, but then we have alfa around 35-45 BTDC, 800-1100cc of fuel ( OM606 55-60cc) 7-12 bar of boost, Waterinjection etc etc.
Still the engine is "hunting" & smoking on low idle.
If you need moore fuel there is only one option. Bigger plungers.
01-24-2012, 09:52 AM
#169
(01-24-2012, 02:48 AM)dieselmeken If you need moore fuel there is only one option. Bigger plungers.
I was hoping you and tomnik could help me with that
This post was last modified: 01-24-2012, 09:53 AM by led-panzer.
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
01-24-2012, 09:52 AM #169(01-24-2012, 02:48 AM)dieselmeken If you need moore fuel there is only one option. Bigger plungers.
I was hoping you and tomnik could help me with that
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
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