OM606 with 350SD IP, Turbo?
OM606 with 350SD IP, Turbo?
I am trying to find a economical set up for my W123+OM606 project.
I have the IP from a W140 350SD, when I bought it, I thought that it had bigger (6mm) elements than the 3,0 L OM603, but I am not quet sure .... can anyone contribute?
I have had contact with Dieselmeken in sweden, who I want to check my pump before building it on my 606. He can install the 6mm elements from the electronic governed 606 pump into the mechanical governed OM603 pump, if it is not already 6mm elements ?
Another IP question .... Will I need to build in the chaindrive (governorwheel) from the OM603 into the 606?
My goal is 280 HP, can anyone recommend a turbocharger to the 6mm elements OM603 IP? Can I keep the castiron exhaustmanifold?
Ole Fejer in Denmark will make the controls for my W210 722.6 gearbox, I have tried it in his SL, and it is brilliant, like tip-tronic in a Audi
Cheers
Jens
Hi all.
I am trying to find a economical set up for my W123+OM606 project.
I have the IP from a W140 350SD, when I bought it, I thought that it had bigger (6mm) elements than the 3,0 L OM603, but I am not quet sure .... can anyone contribute?
I have had contact with Dieselmeken in sweden, who I want to check my pump before building it on my 606. He can install the 6mm elements from the electronic governed 606 pump into the mechanical governed OM603 pump, if it is not already 6mm elements ?
Another IP question .... Will I need to build in the chaindrive (governorwheel) from the OM603 into the 606?
My goal is 280 HP, can anyone recommend a turbocharger to the 6mm elements OM603 IP? Can I keep the castiron exhaustmanifold?
Ole Fejer in Denmark will make the controls for my W210 722.6 gearbox, I have tried it in his SL, and it is brilliant, like tip-tronic in a Audi
Cheers
Jens
(01-28-2012, 10:41 PM)w123star Hi all.
I am trying to find a economical set up for my W123+OM606 project.
I have the IP from a W140 350SD, when I bought it, I thought that it had bigger (6mm) elements than the 3,0 L OM603, but I am not quet sure .... can anyone contribute?
My goal is 280 HP, can anyone recommend a turbocharger to the 6mm elements OM603 IP? Can I keep the castiron exhaustmanifold?
look at the ip plate:it says PES6M 55 ... "55" is 5.5mm element diameter.
From my low power level experience I'd say the exhaust can be used for 280 hp on a 606 engine. If the 6mm elements need high rpm to get to 280 hp I am not sure. At high rpm the exhaust manifold may then be the bottleneck. Try it, if EGTs are too high you can modify the exhaust.
Tom
(01-28-2012, 10:41 PM)w123star Hi all.
I am trying to find a economical set up for my W123+OM606 project.
I have the IP from a W140 350SD, when I bought it, I thought that it had bigger (6mm) elements than the 3,0 L OM603, but I am not quet sure .... can anyone contribute?
My goal is 280 HP, can anyone recommend a turbocharger to the 6mm elements OM603 IP? Can I keep the castiron exhaustmanifold?
look at the ip plate:it says PES6M 55 ... "55" is 5.5mm element diameter.
From my low power level experience I'd say the exhaust can be used for 280 hp on a 606 engine. If the 6mm elements need high rpm to get to 280 hp I am not sure. At high rpm the exhaust manifold may then be the bottleneck. Try it, if EGTs are too high you can modify the exhaust.
Tom
(01-29-2012, 02:22 AM)tomnik(01-28-2012, 10:41 PM)w123star Hi all.
I am trying to find a economical set up for my W123+OM606 project.
I have the IP from a W140 350SD, when I bought it, I thought that it had bigger (6mm) elements than the 3,0 L OM603, but I am not quet sure .... can anyone contribute?
My goal is 280 HP, can anyone recommend a turbocharger to the 6mm elements OM603 IP? Can I keep the castiron exhaustmanifold?
look at the ip plate:it says PES6M 55 ... "55" is 5.5mm element diameter.
From my low power level experience I'd say the exhaust can be used for 280 hp on a 606 engine. If the 6mm elements need high rpm to get to 280 hp I am not sure. At high rpm the exhaust manifold may then be the bottleneck. Try it, if EGTs are too high you can modify the exhaust.
Tom
Hi Tom
Thanks a lot for your help, and keeping it simple
Do you have a suggestion for a turbocharger to fit the original exhaustmanifold? What is the flange called on the original manifold? Jens
(01-29-2012, 02:22 AM)tomnik(01-28-2012, 10:41 PM)w123star Hi all.
I am trying to find a economical set up for my W123+OM606 project.
I have the IP from a W140 350SD, when I bought it, I thought that it had bigger (6mm) elements than the 3,0 L OM603, but I am not quet sure .... can anyone contribute?
My goal is 280 HP, can anyone recommend a turbocharger to the 6mm elements OM603 IP? Can I keep the castiron exhaustmanifold?
look at the ip plate:it says PES6M 55 ... "55" is 5.5mm element diameter.
From my low power level experience I'd say the exhaust can be used for 280 hp on a 606 engine. If the 6mm elements need high rpm to get to 280 hp I am not sure. At high rpm the exhaust manifold may then be the bottleneck. Try it, if EGTs are too high you can modify the exhaust.
Tom
Hi Tom
Thanks a lot for your help, and keeping it simple
Do you have a suggestion for a turbocharger to fit the original exhaustmanifold? What is the flange called on the original manifold? Jens
I personally try to find used turbos that are a bit larger in compressor and turbine wheel. Then I cut the turbo flange and weld a laser cut flange to the turbo to keep the stock manifold.
Doing this I can "adjust" the position and orientation of the turbo a bit because the space in a 124 is limited if you want to keep the stock air cleaner.
I don't think there is "the turbo" for "that set up". All depending on what the car is for and what you accept for emissions, economy, drive-ability and performance.
Tom
Hi Jens,
I personally try to find used turbos that are a bit larger in compressor and turbine wheel. Then I cut the turbo flange and weld a laser cut flange to the turbo to keep the stock manifold.
Doing this I can "adjust" the position and orientation of the turbo a bit because the space in a 124 is limited if you want to keep the stock air cleaner.
I don't think there is "the turbo" for "that set up". All depending on what the car is for and what you accept for emissions, economy, drive-ability and performance.
Tom
It is a W123 Coupe' and it is supposed to be my dayly driver, and with good economy, but it would be funny to be able to scare some young BMW owners in acceleration situations :-) What power do you think I could reach with the stock turbcharger? In my search for exhaustmanifold, I saw that KL-racing has a Holset HX35 with exhausthousing size 12, whatever that means, but it look small the exhaust house. Anyway I asked Göran if I could use the HX35 (it is cheap) and I was surprised he answer me on a sunday, "Dieselmeken" seams to be a very nice guy and extremely competent ofcourse, no doubt about that, He like you, knows what he is talking about! Thank good for guru's like you. He asked me the size of the exhausthouse, and I am now waiting for his answer after he got that :-)
Thanks
Jens
Hi Tom
It is a W123 Coupe' and it is supposed to be my dayly driver, and with good economy, but it would be funny to be able to scare some young BMW owners in acceleration situations :-) What power do you think I could reach with the stock turbcharger? In my search for exhaustmanifold, I saw that KL-racing has a Holset HX35 with exhausthousing size 12, whatever that means, but it look small the exhaust house. Anyway I asked Göran if I could use the HX35 (it is cheap) and I was surprised he answer me on a sunday, "Dieselmeken" seams to be a very nice guy and extremely competent ofcourse, no doubt about that, He like you, knows what he is talking about! Thank good for guru's like you. He asked me the size of the exhausthouse, and I am now waiting for his answer after he got that :-)
Thanks
Jens
I don't have experience with 606 chargers but with my 603 with stock turbo I can scare some of the guys. The limiting factors are obviously EGTs and my personal no-tolerance to smoke.
This is with 7.5mm elements and close to stock delivery.
Currently I am in progress to modify the geometry of the elements, if this test is done I will upgrade the turbo.
Tom
Hi Jens,
I don't have experience with 606 chargers but with my 603 with stock turbo I can scare some of the guys. The limiting factors are obviously EGTs and my personal no-tolerance to smoke.
This is with 7.5mm elements and close to stock delivery.
Currently I am in progress to modify the geometry of the elements, if this test is done I will upgrade the turbo.
Tom
Sounds interesting, I will try to read and learn :-) following the threads in this forum :-) Which is brilliant by the way !
Is all elements above 6mm special made, or is there other vehicels with the Bosch pump that has bigger elements that would fit? Guess my questions are basics and way below expectations for you, but you have to start somewhere.
Thanks
Jens
Hi Tom
Sounds interesting, I will try to read and learn :-) following the threads in this forum :-) Which is brilliant by the way !
Is all elements above 6mm special made, or is there other vehicels with the Bosch pump that has bigger elements that would fit? Guess my questions are basics and way below expectations for you, but you have to start somewhere.
Thanks
Jens
So there is Bosch 7mm elements? So all the talk about Müna, is that because they change the profile on the original elements?
I go with Dieselmeken, have already had great support from Göran. I have found a HX35 with 12cm exhaust housing... Ole Fejer, who is doing the gearboxcontroller for me, has suggested me to use the original exhaustmanifold and make up a T3 adaptor for the HX35. Would be nice to have a multichannel datapanel with EGT and oiltemp. maybe Intake air temp before and after IC, do you have stuff like that in your car?
Cheers
Jens
Hi Tom
So there is Bosch 7mm elements? So all the talk about Müna, is that because they change the profile on the original elements?
I go with Dieselmeken, have already had great support from Göran. I have found a HX35 with 12cm exhaust housing... Ole Fejer, who is doing the gearboxcontroller for me, has suggested me to use the original exhaustmanifold and make up a T3 adaptor for the HX35. Would be nice to have a multichannel datapanel with EGT and oiltemp. maybe Intake air temp before and after IC, do you have stuff like that in your car?
Cheers
Jens
don't know what Mynä uses today but in the past I believe they used the 7mm elements as they were.
Göran's elements will definitely be different/better.
I am not that good with electronics and spend most of my time for calculating and manufacturing my elements. My car is pure stock except the pump (until I made all the testing and detailing in set up).
Keep us informed how your project proceeds and what performance you get.
Tom
Hi Jens,
don't know what Mynä uses today but in the past I believe they used the 7mm elements as they were.
Göran's elements will definitely be different/better.
I am not that good with electronics and spend most of my time for calculating and manufacturing my elements. My car is pure stock except the pump (until I made all the testing and detailing in set up).
Keep us informed how your project proceeds and what performance you get.
Tom
Here are some info I have learn t from this forum.
6 mm elements are probably not big enough for 280hp. in stock 606.962 with 6 mm they normally don't get more than 225hp. So if you use the money to build the pump, buy some 7,5 mm elements from Tomnik as well. That will work well with the hx35.
6mm elements will not be big enough for the air a hx35 can pump.
I consider it a waste of money to go from 5.5mm to 6mm. better to go all the way to 7.5mm. You will get less smoke, better fuel economy and then you can scare some guys at the stop light
Hi
Here are some info I have learn t from this forum.
6 mm elements are probably not big enough for 280hp. in stock 606.962 with 6 mm they normally don't get more than 225hp. So if you use the money to build the pump, buy some 7,5 mm elements from Tomnik as well. That will work well with the hx35.
6mm elements will not be big enough for the air a hx35 can pump.
I consider it a waste of money to go from 5.5mm to 6mm. better to go all the way to 7.5mm. You will get less smoke, better fuel economy and then you can scare some guys at the stop light
(01-30-2012, 11:55 AM)erling66 Hi
Here are some info I have learn t from this forum.
6 mm elements are probably not big enough for 280hp. in stock 606.962 with 6 mm they normally don't get more than 225hp. So if you use the money to build the pump, buy some 7,5 mm elements from Tomnik as well. That will work well with the hx35.
6mm elements will not be big enough for the air a hx35 can pump.
I consider it a waste of money to go from 5.5mm to 6mm. better to go all the way to 7.5mm. You will get less smoke, better fuel economy and then you can scare some guys at the stop light
Agree! go all the way to 7.5mm...I have 5.5 mm elements now, maxed out, but motor and turbo/compressor just laughs of the pump! Haha
My pump is at gørans aka dieselmeken`s workshop, so I hope it will be done soon
EDH_Performance
01-30-2012, 12:02 PM #12(01-30-2012, 11:55 AM)erling66 Hi
Here are some info I have learn t from this forum.
6 mm elements are probably not big enough for 280hp. in stock 606.962 with 6 mm they normally don't get more than 225hp. So if you use the money to build the pump, buy some 7,5 mm elements from Tomnik as well. That will work well with the hx35.
6mm elements will not be big enough for the air a hx35 can pump.
I consider it a waste of money to go from 5.5mm to 6mm. better to go all the way to 7.5mm. You will get less smoke, better fuel economy and then you can scare some guys at the stop light
Agree! go all the way to 7.5mm...I have 5.5 mm elements now, maxed out, but motor and turbo/compressor just laughs of the pump! Haha
My pump is at gørans aka dieselmeken`s workshop, so I hope it will be done soon
(01-30-2012, 12:02 PM)EDH_PerformanceThanks for your good advice and sharing your experience. Important for me is also economy, and a smooth running engine. I will consider building in the 7mm elements, but right now I think I will go with Görans offer, rebuilding the pump with 6mm elements and balance it and move the cut off to maybe 5200 rev/min if possible. I will then dyno the engine with original turbocharger, and take it from there :-) Gaining own experience, and sharing it on this forum.(01-30-2012, 11:55 AM)erling66 Hi
Here are some info I have learn t from this forum.
6 mm elements are probably not big enough for 280hp. in stock 606.962 with 6 mm they normally don't get more than 225hp. So if you use the money to build the pump, buy some 7,5 mm elements from Tomnik as well. That will work well with the hx35.
6mm elements will not be big enough for the air a hx35 can pump.
I consider it a waste of money to go from 5.5mm to 6mm. better to go all the way to 7.5mm. You will get less smoke, better fuel economy and then you can scare some guys at the stop light
Agree! go all the way to 7.5mm...I have 5.5 mm elements now, maxed out, but motor and turbo/compressor just laughs of the pump! Haha
My pump is at gørans aka dieselmeken`s workshop, so I hope it will be done soon
In a couple of weeks the 2 pumps will be shipped to Dieselmeken, and in the meantime bodywork on the w123 and a respray will be ongoing. Plan is to have the car running in 3 months. If I successed it will be the 1. time my projects dont escalate +- 1 year
Jens
(01-30-2012, 12:02 PM)EDH_PerformanceThanks for your good advice and sharing your experience. Important for me is also economy, and a smooth running engine. I will consider building in the 7mm elements, but right now I think I will go with Görans offer, rebuilding the pump with 6mm elements and balance it and move the cut off to maybe 5200 rev/min if possible. I will then dyno the engine with original turbocharger, and take it from there :-) Gaining own experience, and sharing it on this forum.(01-30-2012, 11:55 AM)erling66 Hi
Here are some info I have learn t from this forum.
6 mm elements are probably not big enough for 280hp. in stock 606.962 with 6 mm they normally don't get more than 225hp. So if you use the money to build the pump, buy some 7,5 mm elements from Tomnik as well. That will work well with the hx35.
6mm elements will not be big enough for the air a hx35 can pump.
I consider it a waste of money to go from 5.5mm to 6mm. better to go all the way to 7.5mm. You will get less smoke, better fuel economy and then you can scare some guys at the stop light
Agree! go all the way to 7.5mm...I have 5.5 mm elements now, maxed out, but motor and turbo/compressor just laughs of the pump! Haha
My pump is at gørans aka dieselmeken`s workshop, so I hope it will be done soon
In a couple of weeks the 2 pumps will be shipped to Dieselmeken, and in the meantime bodywork on the w123 and a respray will be ongoing. Plan is to have the car running in 3 months. If I successed it will be the 1. time my projects dont escalate +- 1 year
Jens
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