'79 MB 300TD
'79 MB 300TD
Thanks
Robert_UAH
03-16-2012, 09:05 AM #1So I am probably about to get a '79 MB 300TD for $150. It has a dead engine though. I was wondering how hard it was to swap in a OM617 turbodiesel in place of the non-turbo in it now. How much can I expect to pay for a turbo diesel? Also I am guessing I will need to swap transmissions, is there a manual available for the car? I seem to remember that about 180bhp is the limit on the engine before a new pump is needed. What can be done to reach that 180bhp limit?
Thanks
Robert_UAH
03-16-2012, 10:22 AM #2I know adjusting the IP will help. I am guessing exhaust and an intercooler will help.
You can find 4 speed manual transmissions that will fit from a 240D.
The limit is more like 140hp after adjusting the stock pump. With teensy gains from exhaust/intercooler.
Best bet for a turbo engine would be another parts car. That way you'd be able to get one for around $400 (or better yet $150).
You can find 4 speed manual transmissions that will fit from a 240D.
The limit is more like 140hp after adjusting the stock pump. With teensy gains from exhaust/intercooler.
Edit: Asking transmission questions in different section.
Robert_UAH
03-20-2012, 09:03 AM #4Also if I do decide to upgrade the IP, what is limit to power the turbo OM617 will make before internal work is needed?
Edit: Asking transmission questions in different section.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thre...werks-EM9D
Well the last person got around 215HP and nothing blew up. Well nothing blew up too badly, it seems the headgasket went.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thre...werks-EM9D
Robert_UAH
03-20-2012, 04:44 PM #6Dang, I really thought that I would be able to get more horsepower out of a OM617 just adding more fuel and a bigger turbo.
Where are the weak points internally?
Also, it was supercharged. That definitely ate a very big chunk of it's high end hp, in exchange for low end torque. 250hp on turbo only does not seem unrealistic, though probably laggy.
Ever think about a 603 engine? If you don't mind fabbing custom motor mounts, they are almost as cheap as 617s.
I'm not sure if the example died from weak points. It seems to have died from lack of interest from the owner. I don't know the weak points, not many english speaking people have tried pushing the 617.
Also, it was supercharged. That definitely ate a very big chunk of it's high end hp, in exchange for low end torque. 250hp on turbo only does not seem unrealistic, though probably laggy.
Ever think about a 603 engine? If you don't mind fabbing custom motor mounts, they are almost as cheap as 617s.
(03-20-2012, 06:06 PM)aaa Ever think about a 603 engine? If you don't mind fabbing custom motor mounts, they are almost as cheap as 617s.
Not really. I don't mind fabbing motor mounts. Any other difficult stuff in the swap? Also what about transmissions? I have heard about problems with the OM603 but I don't know how much of that is true.
Robert_UAH
03-20-2012, 06:40 PM #10(03-20-2012, 06:06 PM)aaa Ever think about a 603 engine? If you don't mind fabbing custom motor mounts, they are almost as cheap as 617s.
Not really. I don't mind fabbing motor mounts. Any other difficult stuff in the swap? Also what about transmissions? I have heard about problems with the OM603 but I don't know how much of that is true.
Plenty of five speed 190 manual transmissions for it. You will have to modify the driveshaft in much the same way you would for a 617 manual swap. Not sure if a driveshaft mod would be necessary for an automatic, I can imagine designing the mounts in such a way to avoid that.
I wonder where you'd put the oil cooler, on the 603 it's designed to hang behind the bumper. If you keep it there you can use the wider 126/603 radiator, or you can try the 617 radiator/oil cooler setup with custom oil cooler hoses. And that accelerator linkage, the 126 603 linkage is pretty similar to the 123 setup, but I'd wonder how many changes it'd need. Plus there's the AC, another thing to fab. AC sounds like the biggest hiccup.
As for problems, there is a casting flaw in the earlier head designs, that ruins the head instead of the headgasket if ever overheated. Definitely would be a good idea to learn how to recognize the early heads based off the part number stamped on them, and be on the lookout for bad headgasket/bad head symptoms when shopping. I would be very cautious if an engine when an early head could not be seen running, although if it ran and did not show problems I'd be ok with an early head.
Also, here's a cool video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejrb1YoYt9Y
Well with it being so long, you'd lose some space between the engine and radiator. Which is annoying on the cars that came stock with it.
Plenty of five speed 190 manual transmissions for it. You will have to modify the driveshaft in much the same way you would for a 617 manual swap. Not sure if a driveshaft mod would be necessary for an automatic, I can imagine designing the mounts in such a way to avoid that.
I wonder where you'd put the oil cooler, on the 603 it's designed to hang behind the bumper. If you keep it there you can use the wider 126/603 radiator, or you can try the 617 radiator/oil cooler setup with custom oil cooler hoses. And that accelerator linkage, the 126 603 linkage is pretty similar to the 123 setup, but I'd wonder how many changes it'd need. Plus there's the AC, another thing to fab. AC sounds like the biggest hiccup.
As for problems, there is a casting flaw in the earlier head designs, that ruins the head instead of the headgasket if ever overheated. Definitely would be a good idea to learn how to recognize the early heads based off the part number stamped on them, and be on the lookout for bad headgasket/bad head symptoms when shopping. I would be very cautious if an engine when an early head could not be seen running, although if it ran and did not show problems I'd be ok with an early head.
Also, here's a cool video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejrb1YoYt9Y
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thre...4#pid35784
Claims of 400 are tossed about by some of the pump places, for a 603. Here's an OM605 dyno graph, which has the same stock hp and bottom end as an OM603 but with 5 cylinders:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thre...4#pid35784
Which reminds me of another 603 problem, the 3.5L "rodbender" that would eventually oval out its piston bores under normal usage. These were sold '90-93.
Well there aren't many years, 86/87 would be the only years the 3.0 was sold, and they all originally came with the early design. Any with the new head had gotten a new replacement head at some point.
Which reminds me of another 603 problem, the 3.5L "rodbender" that would eventually oval out its piston bores under normal usage. These were sold '90-93.
Robert_UAH
03-21-2012, 08:30 AM #16So look for one with a replacement if it is an 86/87. The 87 until they started the 3.5 should be fine though right? What about OM606s? Are they available in the US?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-B...606_engine
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
everyone wants a 606
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-B...606_engine
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Robert_UAH
03-21-2012, 04:29 PM #19So realistically the best choice is to find a parts car with a running engine that is either has the OM603 or OM617.
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