Callaway 240d turbo article with pics
Callaway 240d turbo article with pics
06-26-2009, 04:39 PM
#1
Attached Files
Image(s)1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-26-2009, 04:39 PM #1My dad is thinking about making a knock off of this car with his Rajay turbo kit
Attached Files
Image(s)1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
06-26-2009, 05:22 PM
#3
I really like the seats and how they retained the air filter housing though.
This post was last modified: 06-26-2009, 05:22 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
06-26-2009, 05:22 PM
#3
Maximum pressure by 60mph? 4psi post-turbo backpressure? Thats not very good, even by those days standards.
I really like the seats and how they retained the air filter housing though.
06-27-2009, 10:27 AM
#4
Quote:Source: Motor Trend, May 1983 v35 p76(2).
By: Ro McGonegal
Full Text COPYRIGHT Petersen Publishing Company 1983
Diesel With a Difference
Throw a leg over the bolster and slip into the Recaro's palm. Feel the soft
glove leather and fondle, please, the buttons for the contour bladders. Then
lock your hands on the 3-spoke wheel, using the leverage to snuggle your
buttocks to the seat. Pull the shoulder belt across your lap and hook it home.
Twist the ignition and watch the gauges snap to attention. The lights burn as
steadily as coals through the dash panel and the machine steals a few seconds
to ready itself for business. Time is measured by the pumping in your chest
and the wait seems much too long . . .
Okay, okay, stop twitching. You weren't waiting for an electric pump to stoke
the Webers, you were indulging another electronic function, the one that
supplies juice to the machine's uuuuuhhhmmm, aaahhhh, pre-heat system, the
kind of system that brings life to a--yes!--diesel!
(Fade to black. This little psychodrama was brought to you by Callaway Turbo
Sytems in Lyme, Connecticut.)
Standing in the silence of the marrow-cracking January cold was Reeves
Callaway's sleepy 240D Mercedes, the unwitting cohort in a project meant to
freshen his perspective somewhere between twin-turbo 928 brain-busters and the
midnight shriek of the 4-cam Cosworth on his overworked dynamometer. Callaway
was fully aware that the 240D has been the subject of hotair experimentation
by others, but the Mercedes was largely unknown to him. He found something
special. He found a wonderfully over-built automobile, a product created for
the outer limits of the autobahn. But he also found the 240 to be a first
cousin to Torpor, the pavement sloth, and sluggish automobiles have no place
in Callaway's calculations.
Perhaps more impressive than the M-B's bedrock physique was the way it
handled, even with the comfort-prone Continental radials. Enough potential,
reasoned Callaway, for certain owners to enjoy the car from a driver's
standpoint. Everything in sight exuded indestructibility, so could the inner
engine be any less substantial? His thought was to make the car respond at low
speed and undergo maximum pressure by the time it reached 60 mph.
As Callaway puts it, "The conversion is a simple one and diesels are hard to
hurt. The diesel benefits from a turbocharger more than a gasoline engine
does, and it operates at an inherently lower exhaust gas temperature. The
strain that a gasoline powerplant finds with turbocharging is just not
realized in the diesel. The excess air generated by the turbo cleanses the
combustion chamber, recovers heat energy, and yields a boost in horsepower.'
Underhood provision for the installation is prodigious. Despite the
4-cylinder's stock proportions, the distance from engine to fenderwell ensures
proper clearance and ventilation for a hot turbo housing. Since the standard
equipment is well engineered, Callaway's "Turbo Twins,' Don Miller and Kelly
Parsons, preserved as much of it as possible.
For men of their experience, the 240 conversion was pure child's play. Rather
than create an exhaust manifold of their own, they simply cobbled a new one,
adding a stanchion on which to mount the turbo housing and modifying it
further with the addition of a wastegate. Then they fabricated an elbow to
link the turbo to the intake manifold; pre-production samples were tube steel,
but the production piece in every conversion is cast aluminum.
At this point, an aftermarket oil cooler would have been included, but the 240
already had a good one. Aeroquip stainless steel lines complete its
integration with the turbocharger. The brushed-aluminum air cleaner was moved
forward a few inches to finish the job. The exhaust system has extremely low
back-pressure (about 4 psi), so it, too, was left intact. (If there is need,
Callaway will bolt up the even larger pipes from a 300D.)
By the boss' estimation, the result of this manipulation is a 45% power
increase, boosting the 240D's 67 hp to an estimated 95. Fuel consumption for
this vehicle with automatic transmission is 28 mpg, which the Turbo 240 has
dutifully retained during 12,000 miles of operation. The automatic
transmission has lost none of its harmony, and it shifts as smoothly as the
day it hit the pike. But the 240's 0-60 ramble has been reduced by nearly 5
sec to the respectable vicinity of 15.5 sec, attesting to the turbo's healthy
contribution to low-end performance.
Applying heavy leather initiates the hotair rush almost immediately and gives
the driver a feeling of muscle in reserve. Even without exciting the
turbocharger, Callaway finds that sluggishness has been transformed into
willingness. The effect is that of hacking tomatoes day after day with a
butter knife and then finding the joy and happiness that a freshly-honed blade
can bring. The buzz that permeates the normally aspirated 240 at 60 mph is
greatly subdued in the Callaway Turbo, and even at 70 the Mercedes feels
completely relaxed. At lesser speed on a secondary road, one gets the
impression that the engine finally has reached parity with the car's
suspension.
A 300SD it is not. Years of Mercedes-Benz development have made the 300SD a
strong candidate for the title of ultimate turbodiesel. The 300SD whistles to
60 in the mid-12-sec range, which makes the 240D Turbo a matter of economics
and preference. At minimum, those four fleeting seconds will cost $6000 (the
price difference between a new 300SD--suggested retail $37,000--and the
Callaway 240D Turbo). The conversion includes everything we've mentioned, plus
a boost gauge and an exhaust gas temperature meter. It retails for $1800 and
will hinge itself to any 1977-82 240D.
Those who design to do the work themselves (we'll bet against it) will
discover that the changeover requires about six hours, and putting the gauges
in place another three. The leather Recaros and special steering wheel are
Callaway's favors because he feels that man cannot live by turbo alone.
And who would contemplate this aberration? That's right, lawyers, doctors,
"investors,' et al., with a strain of cayenne pricking their otherwise
immutable demeanors. Demand is going something like this: The Twins were
dissecting a stickshift mini-Panzer at the time of our test, shaking their
heads in disbelief over the dozen 240s already waiting to become schizoid
sports cars.
This post was last modified: 06-27-2009, 10:29 AM by DeliveryValve.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
06-27-2009, 10:27 AM #4Pretty cool car. Here is the article in text.
Quote:Source: Motor Trend, May 1983 v35 p76(2).
By: Ro McGonegal
Full Text COPYRIGHT Petersen Publishing Company 1983
Diesel With a Difference
Throw a leg over the bolster and slip into the Recaro's palm. Feel the soft
glove leather and fondle, please, the buttons for the contour bladders. Then
lock your hands on the 3-spoke wheel, using the leverage to snuggle your
buttocks to the seat. Pull the shoulder belt across your lap and hook it home.
Twist the ignition and watch the gauges snap to attention. The lights burn as
steadily as coals through the dash panel and the machine steals a few seconds
to ready itself for business. Time is measured by the pumping in your chest
and the wait seems much too long . . .
Okay, okay, stop twitching. You weren't waiting for an electric pump to stoke
the Webers, you were indulging another electronic function, the one that
supplies juice to the machine's uuuuuhhhmmm, aaahhhh, pre-heat system, the
kind of system that brings life to a--yes!--diesel!
(Fade to black. This little psychodrama was brought to you by Callaway Turbo
Sytems in Lyme, Connecticut.)
Standing in the silence of the marrow-cracking January cold was Reeves
Callaway's sleepy 240D Mercedes, the unwitting cohort in a project meant to
freshen his perspective somewhere between twin-turbo 928 brain-busters and the
midnight shriek of the 4-cam Cosworth on his overworked dynamometer. Callaway
was fully aware that the 240D has been the subject of hotair experimentation
by others, but the Mercedes was largely unknown to him. He found something
special. He found a wonderfully over-built automobile, a product created for
the outer limits of the autobahn. But he also found the 240 to be a first
cousin to Torpor, the pavement sloth, and sluggish automobiles have no place
in Callaway's calculations.
Perhaps more impressive than the M-B's bedrock physique was the way it
handled, even with the comfort-prone Continental radials. Enough potential,
reasoned Callaway, for certain owners to enjoy the car from a driver's
standpoint. Everything in sight exuded indestructibility, so could the inner
engine be any less substantial? His thought was to make the car respond at low
speed and undergo maximum pressure by the time it reached 60 mph.
As Callaway puts it, "The conversion is a simple one and diesels are hard to
hurt. The diesel benefits from a turbocharger more than a gasoline engine
does, and it operates at an inherently lower exhaust gas temperature. The
strain that a gasoline powerplant finds with turbocharging is just not
realized in the diesel. The excess air generated by the turbo cleanses the
combustion chamber, recovers heat energy, and yields a boost in horsepower.'
Underhood provision for the installation is prodigious. Despite the
4-cylinder's stock proportions, the distance from engine to fenderwell ensures
proper clearance and ventilation for a hot turbo housing. Since the standard
equipment is well engineered, Callaway's "Turbo Twins,' Don Miller and Kelly
Parsons, preserved as much of it as possible.
For men of their experience, the 240 conversion was pure child's play. Rather
than create an exhaust manifold of their own, they simply cobbled a new one,
adding a stanchion on which to mount the turbo housing and modifying it
further with the addition of a wastegate. Then they fabricated an elbow to
link the turbo to the intake manifold; pre-production samples were tube steel,
but the production piece in every conversion is cast aluminum.
At this point, an aftermarket oil cooler would have been included, but the 240
already had a good one. Aeroquip stainless steel lines complete its
integration with the turbocharger. The brushed-aluminum air cleaner was moved
forward a few inches to finish the job. The exhaust system has extremely low
back-pressure (about 4 psi), so it, too, was left intact. (If there is need,
Callaway will bolt up the even larger pipes from a 300D.)
By the boss' estimation, the result of this manipulation is a 45% power
increase, boosting the 240D's 67 hp to an estimated 95. Fuel consumption for
this vehicle with automatic transmission is 28 mpg, which the Turbo 240 has
dutifully retained during 12,000 miles of operation. The automatic
transmission has lost none of its harmony, and it shifts as smoothly as the
day it hit the pike. But the 240's 0-60 ramble has been reduced by nearly 5
sec to the respectable vicinity of 15.5 sec, attesting to the turbo's healthy
contribution to low-end performance.
Applying heavy leather initiates the hotair rush almost immediately and gives
the driver a feeling of muscle in reserve. Even without exciting the
turbocharger, Callaway finds that sluggishness has been transformed into
willingness. The effect is that of hacking tomatoes day after day with a
butter knife and then finding the joy and happiness that a freshly-honed blade
can bring. The buzz that permeates the normally aspirated 240 at 60 mph is
greatly subdued in the Callaway Turbo, and even at 70 the Mercedes feels
completely relaxed. At lesser speed on a secondary road, one gets the
impression that the engine finally has reached parity with the car's
suspension.
A 300SD it is not. Years of Mercedes-Benz development have made the 300SD a
strong candidate for the title of ultimate turbodiesel. The 300SD whistles to
60 in the mid-12-sec range, which makes the 240D Turbo a matter of economics
and preference. At minimum, those four fleeting seconds will cost $6000 (the
price difference between a new 300SD--suggested retail $37,000--and the
Callaway 240D Turbo). The conversion includes everything we've mentioned, plus
a boost gauge and an exhaust gas temperature meter. It retails for $1800 and
will hinge itself to any 1977-82 240D.
Those who design to do the work themselves (we'll bet against it) will
discover that the changeover requires about six hours, and putting the gauges
in place another three. The leather Recaros and special steering wheel are
Callaway's favors because he feels that man cannot live by turbo alone.
And who would contemplate this aberration? That's right, lawyers, doctors,
"investors,' et al., with a strain of cayenne pricking their otherwise
immutable demeanors. Demand is going something like this: The Twins were
dissecting a stickshift mini-Panzer at the time of our test, shaking their
heads in disbelief over the dozen 240s already waiting to become schizoid
sports cars.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
06-30-2009, 08:03 PM
#5
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-30-2009, 08:03 PM #5It would be cool to see an original one of these car I wonder how many they made?
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
06-30-2009, 09:19 PM
#6
(06-30-2009, 08:03 PM)willbhere4u It would be cool to see an original one of these car I wonder how many they made?
Cool I guess, but it sounds like a sheep in wolf's clothing... bucket seats, "racing" wheel, and 15.5 second 0-60? Should be able to get way more than that out of 2.4 liters... just look at what the VW guys do with 1.6
This post was last modified: 06-30-2009, 09:19 PM by GREASY_BEAST.
GREASY_BEAST
06-30-2009, 09:19 PM #6(06-30-2009, 08:03 PM)willbhere4u It would be cool to see an original one of these car I wonder how many they made?
Cool I guess, but it sounds like a sheep in wolf's clothing... bucket seats, "racing" wheel, and 15.5 second 0-60? Should be able to get way more than that out of 2.4 liters... just look at what the VW guys do with 1.6
07-01-2009, 02:52 AM
#7
100hp isn't bad, its what Force Motors in India gets out of their 616a.
ForcedInduction
07-01-2009, 02:52 AM
#7
The VW guys don't have to abide by emissions laws.
100hp isn't bad, its what Force Motors in India gets out of their 616a.
07-01-2009, 07:49 AM
#8
(07-01-2009, 02:52 AM)ForcedInduction The VW guys don't have to abide by emissions laws.
100hp isn't bad, its what Force Motors in India gets out of their 616a.
True enough, I'd just like to see 100hp/L
GREASY_BEAST
07-01-2009, 07:49 AM #8(07-01-2009, 02:52 AM)ForcedInduction The VW guys don't have to abide by emissions laws.
100hp isn't bad, its what Force Motors in India gets out of their 616a.
True enough, I'd just like to see 100hp/L
07-01-2009, 10:47 AM
#9
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
07-01-2009, 10:47 AM #9100hp but the TQ is 166 ft pounds what is stock TQ
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
07-01-2009, 11:53 AM
#10
(07-01-2009, 10:47 AM)willbhere4u 100hp but the TQ is 166 ft pounds what is stock TQ
I believe stock is about 100ft*lb. Substantial increases can be made in diesels by turbocharging and turning up the fuel a bit, but even so, the 5mm elements in the 240D injector pump are not enough. 4cyl injector pumps from other engines that push far more fuel are available much more readily than 5 cylinder ones, making the OM616 a better candidate for inexpensive diesel power. My only concern is that the cam is not optimized for this sort of thing, and I wonder whether the crank is up to the task. Turbo pistons and rods are abundantly available, and minor modifications (swapping the valves for turbo ones, as well as adding oil squirters to the undersides of the pistons) will make the rest of the engine easily as robust as the turbo version. My point is that a 4cyl superturbo making 100hp/L could be quite an engine, and really isn't that far out of the financial reach of most people here, whereas custom built injection pumps definitely are.
This post was last modified: 07-01-2009, 11:53 AM by GREASY_BEAST.
GREASY_BEAST
07-01-2009, 11:53 AM #10(07-01-2009, 10:47 AM)willbhere4u 100hp but the TQ is 166 ft pounds what is stock TQ
I believe stock is about 100ft*lb. Substantial increases can be made in diesels by turbocharging and turning up the fuel a bit, but even so, the 5mm elements in the 240D injector pump are not enough. 4cyl injector pumps from other engines that push far more fuel are available much more readily than 5 cylinder ones, making the OM616 a better candidate for inexpensive diesel power. My only concern is that the cam is not optimized for this sort of thing, and I wonder whether the crank is up to the task. Turbo pistons and rods are abundantly available, and minor modifications (swapping the valves for turbo ones, as well as adding oil squirters to the undersides of the pistons) will make the rest of the engine easily as robust as the turbo version. My point is that a 4cyl superturbo making 100hp/L could be quite an engine, and really isn't that far out of the financial reach of most people here, whereas custom built injection pumps definitely are.
07-01-2009, 10:34 PM
#11
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
07-01-2009, 10:34 PM #11fair point you could built a bad ass turbo 616 and then get a "coupe 240cd" mount the engine back 4in like the 617 for better weight distribution back it up with a 4,5spd stick and have a really really nice car!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
07-05-2009, 08:16 AM
#13
(07-05-2009, 07:40 AM)tomnik only the 200D has the 5mm elements, 616 have 5.5mm.
True, but that still won't get it as much power as a stock 617a even if you max out the pump (about 115hp).
Except for wanting to modify an already owned 240D, I can't see any benefit to not buying a 300D instead. The article was May of 83 so the turbo 300D had already been out for more than a year.
A 300SD costs $37,000 and a 300D only cost $32,000. For an extra few hundred dollars over a 240D and a Callaway kit you would have more power and an engine made to have a turbo.
This post was last modified: 07-05-2009, 08:23 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
07-05-2009, 08:16 AM
#13
(07-05-2009, 07:40 AM)tomnik only the 200D has the 5mm elements, 616 have 5.5mm.
True, but that still won't get it as much power as a stock 617a even if you max out the pump (about 115hp).
Except for wanting to modify an already owned 240D, I can't see any benefit to not buying a 300D instead. The article was May of 83 so the turbo 300D had already been out for more than a year.
A 300SD costs $37,000 and a 300D only cost $32,000. For an extra few hundred dollars over a 240D and a Callaway kit you would have more power and an engine made to have a turbo.
11-24-2009, 08:15 PM
#14
I've seen someone make the manifolds from 617a manifolds just cut and capped. If one were to really go inside and replace the pistons and rods, perhaps the valves as well, I don't see why it wouldn't last a good long time at stock 617a pressures. Trying to chase down a modified 617a probably won't last too long, but one can only be sure by trying.
Why would you want this instead of a 300D manual? Well, for one thing, I'll say this: even with mismatched front tires and gone shocks, the 240D is probably more fun to drive than the 300D I have, in the way it reacts and goes through corners, and feels infinitely more tossable. It feels like a Miata in comparison to the heavy nosed 300D. While it wouldn't be as fast as a 617a/manual, a 616 turbo with a four speed would be a good car, basically just being a middle point between the stock 240D and a modified 300. I know which route I'm going, and it has five cylinders, but I could see the appeal of this. Done right to a healthy stock motor, it would be easier than a full motor swap, which if you like your 240D and want to keep it, is your only other option besides leaving it alone. 166 lb ft would be reeeeaaaallllll nice going up the 14 or something like the Vail Pass, and for people who have to deal with going up grades in higher altitudes, it makes a 240D a more viable car. Besides, how hard would it really be to better the results of Callaway back in turbocharging's relative infancy? Considering the vast amount of turbos in different configurations, it couldn't be that hard to beat this seemingly pretty laggy conversion.
I'll have to ask my old boss about these cars, he worked at Callaway for awhile (worked on their land speed record holding Corvette circa the mid to late 80's). He might know how the cars fared over the long run. The thing is, yes Mercedes went through the extra steps for reliability, but did they really have to in what was a pretty ridiculously overbuilt, undertuned engine? Maybe to see the kind of mileages we're used to hearing about now, but what's to say that a stock 616a with a turbo couldn't go 300k with what would be considered 'normal' useage? At 15,000 miles a year, you'd be able to drive it for 20 years if that figure were anything other than a number I pulled out of thin air, but you get my point.
CID Vicious
11-24-2009, 08:15 PM #14I wish I'd seen this earlier, very cool article. One wonders why they started out with the automatic - well, other than the fact that it probably needs the help most, being the slowest car in the line.
I've seen someone make the manifolds from 617a manifolds just cut and capped. If one were to really go inside and replace the pistons and rods, perhaps the valves as well, I don't see why it wouldn't last a good long time at stock 617a pressures. Trying to chase down a modified 617a probably won't last too long, but one can only be sure by trying.
Why would you want this instead of a 300D manual? Well, for one thing, I'll say this: even with mismatched front tires and gone shocks, the 240D is probably more fun to drive than the 300D I have, in the way it reacts and goes through corners, and feels infinitely more tossable. It feels like a Miata in comparison to the heavy nosed 300D. While it wouldn't be as fast as a 617a/manual, a 616 turbo with a four speed would be a good car, basically just being a middle point between the stock 240D and a modified 300. I know which route I'm going, and it has five cylinders, but I could see the appeal of this. Done right to a healthy stock motor, it would be easier than a full motor swap, which if you like your 240D and want to keep it, is your only other option besides leaving it alone. 166 lb ft would be reeeeaaaallllll nice going up the 14 or something like the Vail Pass, and for people who have to deal with going up grades in higher altitudes, it makes a 240D a more viable car. Besides, how hard would it really be to better the results of Callaway back in turbocharging's relative infancy? Considering the vast amount of turbos in different configurations, it couldn't be that hard to beat this seemingly pretty laggy conversion.
I'll have to ask my old boss about these cars, he worked at Callaway for awhile (worked on their land speed record holding Corvette circa the mid to late 80's). He might know how the cars fared over the long run. The thing is, yes Mercedes went through the extra steps for reliability, but did they really have to in what was a pretty ridiculously overbuilt, undertuned engine? Maybe to see the kind of mileages we're used to hearing about now, but what's to say that a stock 616a with a turbo couldn't go 300k with what would be considered 'normal' useage? At 15,000 miles a year, you'd be able to drive it for 20 years if that figure were anything other than a number I pulled out of thin air, but you get my point.
11-24-2009, 10:24 PM
#15
(11-24-2009, 08:15 PM)CID Vicious I've seen someone make the manifolds from 617a manifolds just cut and capped.These are all I have.
ForcedInduction
11-24-2009, 10:24 PM
#15
(11-24-2009, 08:15 PM)CID Vicious I've seen someone make the manifolds from 617a manifolds just cut and capped.These are all I have.
11-25-2009, 03:12 PM
#16
also some one in another post proposed taking a coupe making a 240cd and relocating the engine back 4-5 in like a 300 and move some weight towards the center of the car!!!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
11-25-2009, 03:12 PM #16on my setup i used the original style exhaust manifold and the there was an adapter from it to the turbo would be hard to fabricate a new one for a different style set up!
also some one in another post proposed taking a coupe making a 240cd and relocating the engine back 4-5 in like a 300 and move some weight towards the center of the car!!!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
11-25-2009, 06:02 PM
#17
You know, if someone is willing to wager a 616, this might be worth pursuing, considering the injection pumps that become available for use. It'd be fun to see how far they'd go before they burst
. I'd think they'd be cheaper to come by, too, since everyone wants a 617a. That smell and noise are the gears turning in my head...
I think it was over at turbomustangs.com or something, but there was a guy who got into Car Craft with an 80s Firebird running TPI and a stock, two bolt main 70's era truck block. Nothing special or cutting edge about the motor itself, and I think they used megasquirt or somehing like that to tune it. They ran it with twin turbos and nitrous and got about 600 hp out of the stock block. They said something like "When you engage the nitrous you can feel the mains squirm a bit, but nothing's come apart yet!" And that truck motor wasn't anywhere near as over built and under tuned as the 616.
Who knows, with the right injection pump and VNT, maybe swapped in turbo pistons and rods, the 616 might be a sleeper, especially with more modest goals than a sub 10 second quarter like the Firebird...until the Finns come off some of that 5 cylinder pump knowledge, we're kind of reduced to taking shots in the dark. Hasn't anyone tried reverse engineering the Myna, anyway?
CID Vicious
11-25-2009, 06:02 PM #17It's a great idea, if you can figure out how to mod either the X member or the oil pan. The 617 is a 616 with a cylinder added to the rear, essentially, at least in how it sits in the 123 chassis in relation to one another. Move it back the four inches and the pan and X member are trying to occupy the same space. It would be just as easy (or not) to do it to a sedan as a coupe.
You know, if someone is willing to wager a 616, this might be worth pursuing, considering the injection pumps that become available for use. It'd be fun to see how far they'd go before they burst . I'd think they'd be cheaper to come by, too, since everyone wants a 617a.
That smell and noise are the gears turning in my head...
I think it was over at turbomustangs.com or something, but there was a guy who got into Car Craft with an 80s Firebird running TPI and a stock, two bolt main 70's era truck block. Nothing special or cutting edge about the motor itself, and I think they used megasquirt or somehing like that to tune it. They ran it with twin turbos and nitrous and got about 600 hp out of the stock block. They said something like "When you engage the nitrous you can feel the mains squirm a bit, but nothing's come apart yet!" And that truck motor wasn't anywhere near as over built and under tuned as the 616.
Who knows, with the right injection pump and VNT, maybe swapped in turbo pistons and rods, the 616 might be a sleeper, especially with more modest goals than a sub 10 second quarter like the Firebird...until the Finns come off some of that 5 cylinder pump knowledge, we're kind of reduced to taking shots in the dark. Hasn't anyone tried reverse engineering the Myna, anyway?
11-25-2009, 11:44 PM
#18
(11-25-2009, 06:02 PM)CID Vicious Hasn't anyone tried reverse engineering the Myna, anyway?
Not much to reverse. Their main attraction is the 7mm elements and bench tuning from experience, the rest is external in a custom ALDA and a "full load adjustment" rod on the rack emergency stop lever.
If the Chinese 10mm MW elements work out well, there really won't be much of a need for Myna anymore...
ForcedInduction
11-25-2009, 11:44 PM
#18
(11-25-2009, 06:02 PM)CID Vicious Hasn't anyone tried reverse engineering the Myna, anyway?
Not much to reverse. Their main attraction is the 7mm elements and bench tuning from experience, the rest is external in a custom ALDA and a "full load adjustment" rod on the rack emergency stop lever.
If the Chinese 10mm MW elements work out well, there really won't be much of a need for Myna anymore...
11-27-2009, 12:40 AM
#19
(11-25-2009, 11:44 PM)ForcedInduction(11-25-2009, 06:02 PM)CID Vicious Hasn't anyone tried reverse engineering the Myna, anyway?
Not much to reverse. Their main attraction is the 7mm elements and bench tuning from experience, the rest is external in a custom ALDA and a "full load adjustment" rod on the rack emergency stop lever.
If the Chinese 10mm MW elements work out well, there really won't be much of a need for Myna anymore...
this is the case not only since the Chinese 10mm MW are up...
I ran larger MW since nearly 2 years, perfect quality!
But if you go for after market crap and smoke and rough running is not an issue, go for it. Bench tuning is not rocket science and all the external ALDA stuff is just because they had to use the M instead of the MW, cause there are no suitable after market MW elements.
Tom
(11-25-2009, 11:44 PM)ForcedInduction(11-25-2009, 06:02 PM)CID Vicious Hasn't anyone tried reverse engineering the Myna, anyway?
Not much to reverse. Their main attraction is the 7mm elements and bench tuning from experience, the rest is external in a custom ALDA and a "full load adjustment" rod on the rack emergency stop lever.
If the Chinese 10mm MW elements work out well, there really won't be much of a need for Myna anymore...
this is the case not only since the Chinese 10mm MW are up...
I ran larger MW since nearly 2 years, perfect quality!
But if you go for after market crap and smoke and rough running is not an issue, go for it. Bench tuning is not rocket science and all the external ALDA stuff is just because they had to use the M instead of the MW, cause there are no suitable after market MW elements.
Tom
12-02-2009, 12:44 AM
#20
(11-24-2009, 10:24 PM)ForcedInduction(11-24-2009, 08:15 PM)CID Vicious I've seen someone make the manifolds from 617a manifolds just cut and capped.These are all I have.
Wait, you have/had a turbo 616? Or just the photos?
I'm thinking this could work out very well for me, get a K26 and exhaust manifold and the related lines and such from pick a part, and my 240D/Auto that I'll have leftover from converted teh 300D to manual would be a much more useful car. Those results shouldn't be hard to replicate or improve upon with a K26, and if it's anywhere near 170 lb ft (which is all the bigger 617a makes stock anyway) I'd be quite happy. Always better to have two running cars, especially if you're screwing around with one of them.
I figure if the car doesn't do as well as I think it will, the world will lose one 617a manifold and I'll have a spare turbo kicking around, and lose a few hours of my life tilting at a turbo 616.
CID Vicious
12-02-2009, 12:44 AM #20(11-24-2009, 10:24 PM)ForcedInduction(11-24-2009, 08:15 PM)CID Vicious I've seen someone make the manifolds from 617a manifolds just cut and capped.These are all I have.
Wait, you have/had a turbo 616? Or just the photos?
I'm thinking this could work out very well for me, get a K26 and exhaust manifold and the related lines and such from pick a part, and my 240D/Auto that I'll have leftover from converted teh 300D to manual would be a much more useful car. Those results shouldn't be hard to replicate or improve upon with a K26, and if it's anywhere near 170 lb ft (which is all the bigger 617a makes stock anyway) I'd be quite happy. Always better to have two running cars, especially if you're screwing around with one of them.
I figure if the car doesn't do as well as I think it will, the world will lose one 617a manifold and I'll have a spare turbo kicking around, and lose a few hours of my life tilting at a turbo 616.
12-02-2009, 07:50 AM
#22
On a side note anyone know the inner diameter of the prechambers in the OM60X series?
Graminal95
12-02-2009, 07:50 AM #22Thats my manifold your talking about, and I say if you have the will and the time go for it. My 240Dt has served me well over the past 45k miles, and yours should to. Just don't expect a huge increase in torque unless you get a little VNT. I can make boost in the upper RPM's but down low she is still a bit of a dog, on par with my Pa's 85 (2.88 diff) auto 300DT.
On a side note anyone know the inner diameter of the prechambers in the OM60X series?
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