Source for Bosio & Monark Nozzles
Source for Bosio & Monark Nozzles
I am trying to find a dealer or source that can order some DN0SD315 Nozzles manufactured by either Bosio or Monark. These nozzles were not used on MB engines but rather a Ford engine. They are supposed to flow around 15% more than the 265 nozzles, and I want to try them with the 10mm pump.
I have seen that Diesel Giant sells some Bosio nozzles, but I would like to know where he is getting them from. I saw a Monark web site, but you have to request info and all that.
There has to be someone who has a link to sources.
Thanks
I know I saw a post recently about this but after searching I can not find what I am looking for so I thought I would throw it up in the wind and see where it goes.
I am trying to find a dealer or source that can order some DN0SD315 Nozzles manufactured by either Bosio or Monark. These nozzles were not used on MB engines but rather a Ford engine. They are supposed to flow around 15% more than the 265 nozzles, and I want to try them with the 10mm pump.
I have seen that Diesel Giant sells some Bosio nozzles, but I would like to know where he is getting them from. I saw a Monark web site, but you have to request info and all that.
There has to be someone who has a link to sources.
Thanks
Monarks: Sean Watts, actually C. Sean Watts at Hessionautoimports.com in North Carolina, but good luck there. He's been out of commission for a while now.
Fly them back from Deuschland: Pay a small fortune on VAT, customs, and some other crap. Nice? Look what we got to look foward to once we follow the European model of commerce.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
http://www.kermatdi.com/servlet/StoreFront For Bosio's. I believe the mainstay US distributor, maybe the only. Not sure if Brian at Diesel Giant is a resaler or not.
Monarks: Sean Watts, actually C. Sean Watts at Hessionautoimports.com in North Carolina, but good luck there. He's been out of commission for a while now.
Fly them back from Deuschland: Pay a small fortune on VAT, customs, and some other crap. Nice? Look what we got to look foward to once we follow the European model of commerce.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
There are other sources for nozzles that I know are cheaper, but I do not want to risk a unknown if I do not have to given how many changes I am making at once.
Quality seems to be a concept of the past, tis the times we live in.
I will see how difficult it will be to get some and report back costs. These nozzles would be a nice upgrade.
Many thanks.
There are other sources for nozzles that I know are cheaper, but I do not want to risk a unknown if I do not have to given how many changes I am making at once.
Quality seems to be a concept of the past, tis the times we live in.
I will see how difficult it will be to get some and report back costs. These nozzles would be a nice upgrade.
I am wondering what everyone's thinks China falls in the line? Better than India, but not as good as Italy? Based on actual experience is best of course.
I have heard that the Bosch nozzles are of poor quality and that they are made in India. Better nozzles are available from Italy and possibly Germany.
I am wondering what everyone's thinks China falls in the line? Better than India, but not as good as Italy? Based on actual experience is best of course.
(09-03-2012, 09:09 PM)OM616 I have heard that the Bosch nozzles are of poor quality and that they are made in India. Better nozzles are available from Italy and possibly Germany.
I am wondering what everyone's thinks China falls in the line? Better than India, but not as good as Italy? Based on actual experience is best of course.
Some of Bosch nozzles are made in China, too.
Quality quite ok.
I sell the Bosio nozzles
(09-03-2012, 09:09 PM)OM616 I have heard that the Bosch nozzles are of poor quality and that they are made in India. Better nozzles are available from Italy and possibly Germany.
I am wondering what everyone's thinks China falls in the line? Better than India, but not as good as Italy? Based on actual experience is best of course.
Some of Bosch nozzles are made in China, too.
Quality quite ok.
I sell the Bosio nozzles
Graminal95
09-04-2012, 11:21 AM #6I just had a quick look and the online price for MB nozzles is 40.80 plus shipping for the OM606 application. I'm looking for nozzles myself and wonder if MB are still made in Germany or if they are just re-branded Bosch (made in India) nozzles. Does anyone know?
(09-04-2012, 12:13 AM)pp d Some of Bosch nozzles are made in China, too.
Quality quite ok.
I sell the Bosio nozzles
Thanks for the input.
I have one Bosio dealer over here checking into the nozzles, but I have a feeling that they will be too obscure to be in stock.
I got a very good price from the manufacturer I am getting the Elements from so I think I will get some to check out. I am very pleased with the element so I have hopes that the nozzles will be good. Plus they have them in stock.
(09-04-2012, 12:13 AM)pp d Some of Bosch nozzles are made in China, too.
Quality quite ok.
I sell the Bosio nozzles
Thanks for the input.
I have one Bosio dealer over here checking into the nozzles, but I have a feeling that they will be too obscure to be in stock.
I got a very good price from the manufacturer I am getting the Elements from so I think I will get some to check out. I am very pleased with the element so I have hopes that the nozzles will be good. Plus they have them in stock.
(09-04-2012, 11:21 AM)Graminal95 I just had a quick look and the online price for MB nozzles is 40.80 plus shipping for the OM606 application. I'm looking for nozzles myself and wonder if MB are still made in Germany or if they are just re-branded Bosch (made in India) nozzles. Does anyone know?
I had ordered several nozzles. Always the same type.
eBay for 20 Euro/each
Bosch-Service for 45 Euro/each
Mercedes for 75Euro/each
In every case I got Bosch nozzles made in India. After several tests the eBay ones turned out to be not good, the Bosch and Mercedes ones were very good. So the supplier and the price decides what you get...
Don´t buy too cheap if you want quality.
Gruß
Volker
(09-04-2012, 11:21 AM)Graminal95 I just had a quick look and the online price for MB nozzles is 40.80 plus shipping for the OM606 application. I'm looking for nozzles myself and wonder if MB are still made in Germany or if they are just re-branded Bosch (made in India) nozzles. Does anyone know?
I had ordered several nozzles. Always the same type.
eBay for 20 Euro/each
Bosch-Service for 45 Euro/each
Mercedes for 75Euro/each
In every case I got Bosch nozzles made in India. After several tests the eBay ones turned out to be not good, the Bosch and Mercedes ones were very good. So the supplier and the price decides what you get...
Don´t buy too cheap if you want quality.
Gruß
Volker
(09-04-2012, 01:49 PM)Volker407 I had ordered several nozzles. Always the same type.
eBay for 20 Euro/each
Bosch-Service for 45 Euro/each
Mercedes for 75Euro/each
In every case I got Bosch nozzles made in India. After several tests the eBay ones turned out to be not good, the Bosch and Mercedes ones were very good. So the supplier and the price decides what you get...
Don´t buy too cheap if you want quality.
Gruß
Volker
I am very impressed with the elements I have received to date, but ask me 5 years from now to get the real story.
I am hoping that the low price is a result of cheep labor not poor quality. There is one way to find out.
(09-04-2012, 01:49 PM)Volker407 I had ordered several nozzles. Always the same type.
eBay for 20 Euro/each
Bosch-Service for 45 Euro/each
Mercedes for 75Euro/each
In every case I got Bosch nozzles made in India. After several tests the eBay ones turned out to be not good, the Bosch and Mercedes ones were very good. So the supplier and the price decides what you get...
Don´t buy too cheap if you want quality.
Gruß
Volker
I am very impressed with the elements I have received to date, but ask me 5 years from now to get the real story.
I am hoping that the low price is a result of cheep labor not poor quality. There is one way to find out.
With one caveat: not so much if you burn WVO or WMO or a concoction thereof. BUT, for #2, cannot beat the Bosios. Having rebuilt a bunch of injectors for folks and their feedback, and from my own experience, they are right now the best.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
If you can get Bosios here in the USA, then that is the cadilac of nozzles. Of course, I mean when a cadilac was a cadilac and the standard for the world on luxury. Guess the good old days are gone ....
With one caveat: not so much if you burn WVO or WMO or a concoction thereof. BUT, for #2, cannot beat the Bosios. Having rebuilt a bunch of injectors for folks and their feedback, and from my own experience, they are right now the best.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
(09-04-2012, 09:22 PM)Greazzer If you can get Bosios here in the USA, then that is the cadilac of nozzles. Of course, I mean when a cadilac was a cadilac and the standard for the world on luxury. Guess the good old days are gone ....
With one caveat: not so much if you burn WVO or WMO or a concoction thereof. BUT, for #2, cannot beat the Bosios. Having rebuilt a bunch of injectors for folks and their feedback, and from my own experience, they are right now the best.
What do you notice about the Bosio nozzles that sets them apart from the others?
(09-04-2012, 09:22 PM)Greazzer If you can get Bosios here in the USA, then that is the cadilac of nozzles. Of course, I mean when a cadilac was a cadilac and the standard for the world on luxury. Guess the good old days are gone ....
With one caveat: not so much if you burn WVO or WMO or a concoction thereof. BUT, for #2, cannot beat the Bosios. Having rebuilt a bunch of injectors for folks and their feedback, and from my own experience, they are right now the best.
What do you notice about the Bosio nozzles that sets them apart from the others?
The Bosio's have a super nice spray pattern with a much heavier flow of fuel. Since I am looking at spray patterns with just my eyes -- no special equipment or scanner or whatever -- I can see how they pop. The Bosch's pop with a nice spray pattern but it is like a vapor. The Monarks have a nice spray pattern but it's like a mist. So, comparing all 3 above, and looking at them, they all spray nice (assuming good nozzles and pintles) but the Bosios have way more fuel without any sort of peeing or streaming. Having rebuilt well over 50 sets of injectors for customers on the forums in the past year, and trying all 3 plus Elsbetts, the Bosios are the best IMO. Maybe it is their ability to deliver more fuel but deliver it in a manner which permits a nice spray pattern instead of peeing or streaming. The Bosch's pop like a vapor also but much heavier on the fuel. Sort of like if you took nose drops and squeezed the container into the air. You can see the mist but it quickly goes away whereas if you had more fuel but the same exact delivery, the heavier "mist" or "spray" just cannot disappear, but no peeing or streaming.
I guess after re-reading the above, that is clear as mud. Sorry. I suck at trying to describe stuff. I have four measurements. Move or adjust something a hair or something is a ball buster and either move something a smidge or mash it down. LOL.
Hope this helps.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Here is my .02. It is not scientific nor based on any technical studies and I had my fill of a former member who premised a virtual livlihood out of making a distinction without a difference to prompt a debate in which he was already "correct". So, here it is:
The Bosio's have a super nice spray pattern with a much heavier flow of fuel. Since I am looking at spray patterns with just my eyes -- no special equipment or scanner or whatever -- I can see how they pop. The Bosch's pop with a nice spray pattern but it is like a vapor. The Monarks have a nice spray pattern but it's like a mist. So, comparing all 3 above, and looking at them, they all spray nice (assuming good nozzles and pintles) but the Bosios have way more fuel without any sort of peeing or streaming. Having rebuilt well over 50 sets of injectors for customers on the forums in the past year, and trying all 3 plus Elsbetts, the Bosios are the best IMO. Maybe it is their ability to deliver more fuel but deliver it in a manner which permits a nice spray pattern instead of peeing or streaming. The Bosch's pop like a vapor also but much heavier on the fuel. Sort of like if you took nose drops and squeezed the container into the air. You can see the mist but it quickly goes away whereas if you had more fuel but the same exact delivery, the heavier "mist" or "spray" just cannot disappear, but no peeing or streaming.
I guess after re-reading the above, that is clear as mud. Sorry. I suck at trying to describe stuff. I have four measurements. Move or adjust something a hair or something is a ball buster and either move something a smidge or mash it down. LOL.
Hope this helps.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-07-2012, 11:36 AM #13I have always gotten mine on eBay
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
I thought I would ask because if the different manufacturers are making the nozzles to print, they should all be the same, unless surface finish is different, or Bosio has tweaked the print a touch.
I bet they have a better process to get the surface finish better, like is advertised with extrude honing nozzles.
Can you get the proper springs to convert the NA injector to a 150 bar or better 175 bar injector?
You did just fine with your description.
I thought I would ask because if the different manufacturers are making the nozzles to print, they should all be the same, unless surface finish is different, or Bosio has tweaked the print a touch.
I bet they have a better process to get the surface finish better, like is advertised with extrude honing nozzles.
Can you get the proper springs to convert the NA injector to a 150 bar or better 175 bar injector?
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
There appears to be 2 springs, long and short. The top part of the injector body either can accomadate the long or short spring (deeper hole). The spring determines whether to use the fat or thinner disk and the rivet looking part. The bodies themselves look similar but one is marked 115 BAR and the other 135 BAR. There are some differences in the turbo and non-turbo bodies but I could not tell you what. I know that the long or short spring can be Turbo, but I think the non-turbo only uses the short spring. You cannot mix and match either, and you must use the upper and lowewr injector body as they came. If you screw up the parts in any way, you will most likely have a leak no matter what. Don't ask me how I know. The pressure or the pop is determined by the shim thickness. Thicker shim (s) equals more PSI. So, you could have a 115 BAR injector body and inners and just put in a super fatty shim and you will get 150 BAR, et cet. Or, 135 BAR and use a super skinny shim and just get 100 BAR. The shim determines the PSI and pop. That is why this can be so damm frustrating and time consuming when first starting out. You have to match the shim(s) to get the PSI spot on. For example, you could have a 1.20mm shim, but need a 1.25mm shim. You either have a 1.25mm shim or you use a 1.00mm +.25mm shim and use 2 shims to get them exact as possible. I almost aways beat the FSM +/- 50 PSI. I strive for 25 +/- PSI or less.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
(09-07-2012, 02:37 PM)Greazzer So, you could have a 115 BAR injector body and inners and just put in a super fatty shim and you will get 150 BAR
But the spring rate will be wrong for the new pressure which can cause problems on the engine.
Gruß
Volker
(09-07-2012, 04:03 PM)Volker407(09-07-2012, 02:37 PM)Greazzer So, you could have a 115 BAR injector body and inners and just put in a super fatty shim and you will get 150 BAR
But the spring rate will be wrong for the new pressure which can cause problems on the engine.
Gruß
Volker
That is why I was asking about the different spring to run at least 150 bar, but I would really prefer 175 ish. I have been talking with a friend privately about this and I have learned a lot! Just because an Injector will pop or brake at a given pressure, if the spring rate is too high it will not chatter or the term he used was snare, which I gather determines how fine the spray is to some degree.
I was going to contact the local Bosch dealer and see if they could find the correct springs. My fear is that I send them to someone and they set the pop, but they will not snare properly at full fueling. This is a problem any time one deviates from stock specks.
Greazzer; have you done any 150 bar injectors? did you notice a different sound or spray quality? I have never played with an Injector so this is all new to me.
(09-07-2012, 04:03 PM)Volker407(09-07-2012, 02:37 PM)Greazzer So, you could have a 115 BAR injector body and inners and just put in a super fatty shim and you will get 150 BAR
But the spring rate will be wrong for the new pressure which can cause problems on the engine.
Gruß
Volker
That is why I was asking about the different spring to run at least 150 bar, but I would really prefer 175 ish. I have been talking with a friend privately about this and I have learned a lot! Just because an Injector will pop or brake at a given pressure, if the spring rate is too high it will not chatter or the term he used was snare, which I gather determines how fine the spray is to some degree.
I was going to contact the local Bosch dealer and see if they could find the correct springs. My fear is that I send them to someone and they set the pop, but they will not snare properly at full fueling. This is a problem any time one deviates from stock specks.
Greazzer; have you done any 150 bar injectors? did you notice a different sound or spray quality? I have never played with an Injector so this is all new to me.
Mbz used the same shorter spring both on a /na engines,just used different shims. The longer springs were used on the asperated engine only. Changed to enhance a smoother movement of the pintle. Have used both on the turbo cars,(short & long spring)felt no difference,poss. less emissions on higher rpms.
No. I have only rebuilt 135 BAR and 115 BAR diesel injectors. I have been asked to set them higher or lower, but I generally do not deviate too far. That is, instead of 1,950, I would set them 1,900 or 2,000 for example. As for the 150 BAR injector, I am pretty sure the IP and timing would be affected. Good luck on the springs. Finding shims if tough enough.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Greazzer; have you done any 150 bar injectors? did you notice a different sound or spray quality? I have never played with an Injector so this is all new to me.
No. I have only rebuilt 135 BAR and 115 BAR diesel injectors. I have been asked to set them higher or lower, but I generally do not deviate too far. That is, instead of 1,950, I would set them 1,900 or 2,000 for example. As for the 150 BAR injector, I am pretty sure the IP and timing would be affected. Good luck on the springs. Finding shims if tough enough.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
What I"ve noticed ,higher pop pressure,finer spray,higher pitched buzz. Imo Mbz reduced the pressure because of loss of low
rpm power(spray too fine) and noise level. Cleaned many injectors that the spray pattern was ok but the spray was too fine,in each case the complaint was lack of low end power. Hope this helps .
I believe in 1984 Mbz started out with a pop pressure on the turbos at 2,100 psi but soon reduced that to 2,000 psi,( service bulletin).
What I"ve noticed ,higher pop pressure,finer spray,higher pitched buzz. Imo Mbz reduced the pressure because of loss of low
rpm power(spray too fine) and noise level. Cleaned many injectors that the spray pattern was ok but the spray was too fine,in each case the complaint was lack of low end power. Hope this helps .
If I do decide to go above the 135 pop pressure, I will get a set of AAZ injectors and have them set to a 135 first stage and a 175 second stage and see how it does.
My Bosio dealer over here is not getting anywhere with Bosio in respect to the 315 nozzles. I saw a listing on e-bay for 315 nozzles and it said they were used on Ford Fiesta & Courier 1.8 Diesel RTF/RTH.
I ordered some of the Chinese nozzles, when I get them I will compare hardness to the old Bosch nozzles I have, and have them cut in half to see the internal geometry and compare it to the old Bosch ones I have but they have about 200K on them lol so it will be interesting to see what they look like inside.
EDIT: I just checked my e-mail and Bosio has the 315 nozzles in stock. No price was indicated, but I bet they would be in the $40-$50 range. If anyone wants to try some let me know and I will add them to my order, (I will be ordering 10 to have enough for both my cars). I will require payment prior to my ordering the extra nozzles as I do not have the extra cash on hand to cover them.
I was thinking last night that I should just stick with the 135bar setting as that is what everyone else would be using. Figures, I have 8 extra 115bar bodies too, I will have to find some 135 bodies to put the 315 nozzles in .
If I do decide to go above the 135 pop pressure, I will get a set of AAZ injectors and have them set to a 135 first stage and a 175 second stage and see how it does.
My Bosio dealer over here is not getting anywhere with Bosio in respect to the 315 nozzles. I saw a listing on e-bay for 315 nozzles and it said they were used on Ford Fiesta & Courier 1.8 Diesel RTF/RTH.
I ordered some of the Chinese nozzles, when I get them I will compare hardness to the old Bosch nozzles I have, and have them cut in half to see the internal geometry and compare it to the old Bosch ones I have but they have about 200K on them lol so it will be interesting to see what they look like inside.
EDIT: I just checked my e-mail and Bosio has the 315 nozzles in stock. No price was indicated, but I bet they would be in the $40-$50 range. If anyone wants to try some let me know and I will add them to my order, (I will be ordering 10 to have enough for both my cars). I will require payment prior to my ordering the extra nozzles as I do not have the extra cash on hand to cover them.
Purplecomputer
09-08-2012, 12:12 PM #22I didnt really bother to read all the other posts but i have a set of Bosios that I am having greazzer rebuild and he lent me some bosch nozzles in the mean time and the Bosios deliver waaaay more power. I can feel a loss of acceleration with the bosch as compared to the bosios.
(09-08-2012, 12:12 PM)Purplecomputer I didnt really bother to read all the other posts but i have a set of Bosios that I am having greazzer rebuild and he lent me some bosch nozzles in the mean time and the Bosios deliver waaaay more power. I can feel a loss of acceleration with the bosch as compared to the bosios.
That is interesting, I have heard that the Bosios make better power, but that is usually in comparison of worn out injectors. Greazzer, can you comment on the age of the loaner injectors (high mileage?), and was the pop pressure the same for both types of nozzles?
The 315 nozzle is supposed to flow more fuel than the 265, so they should be really worth it as a performance up grade over the 265.
(09-08-2012, 12:12 PM)Purplecomputer I didnt really bother to read all the other posts but i have a set of Bosios that I am having greazzer rebuild and he lent me some bosch nozzles in the mean time and the Bosios deliver waaaay more power. I can feel a loss of acceleration with the bosch as compared to the bosios.
That is interesting, I have heard that the Bosios make better power, but that is usually in comparison of worn out injectors. Greazzer, can you comment on the age of the loaner injectors (high mileage?), and was the pop pressure the same for both types of nozzles?
The 315 nozzle is supposed to flow more fuel than the 265, so they should be really worth it as a performance up grade over the 265.
I just cleaned a set of Elsbetts and I can say they have just as much fuel as the Bosios and just as fine spray or pop. BUT, I can say that Bosios are NOT good for WVO at all. So, there is something different between those 2 as well even though the fuel and pop spray is the same.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
They were loaners--They were not new, but they were not horrible. They were set at 1,650.00 (non turbo). I have no idea how many miles were on those injectors. And yes, per my prior posts, Bosios are better IMO. The loaners were cleaned, pop tested, and balanced and they pop good. Not sure if the car ran "better" or ran with less power but ran better (or worse).
I just cleaned a set of Elsbetts and I can say they have just as much fuel as the Bosios and just as fine spray or pop. BUT, I can say that Bosios are NOT good for WVO at all. So, there is something different between those 2 as well even though the fuel and pop spray is the same.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
(09-10-2012, 06:41 AM)Turbo can somebody tell what kind of spray pattern are the original give and what kind of type of cone?
From what I can decipher from the numbers, the MBs use a nozzle with a 0 spray angle (wrong term?). I have heard some argue that the 0 stands for 10 degrees, but I have not seen any specks to confirm that. You will see nozzles with a 4 for the angle digit for other applications often.
I am getting pricing on Bosio and Monark 315 nozzles, and the Chinese ones are on their way for grins.
Once I know the cost, I will be ordering some for my 10mm 616turbo and 617a cars, if anyone else wants some let me know soon. As a heads up, I will need payment prior to my ordering any parts.
(09-10-2012, 06:41 AM)Turbo can somebody tell what kind of spray pattern are the original give and what kind of type of cone?
From what I can decipher from the numbers, the MBs use a nozzle with a 0 spray angle (wrong term?). I have heard some argue that the 0 stands for 10 degrees, but I have not seen any specks to confirm that. You will see nozzles with a 4 for the angle digit for other applications often.
I am getting pricing on Bosio and Monark 315 nozzles, and the Chinese ones are on their way for grins.
Once I know the cost, I will be ordering some for my 10mm 616turbo and 617a cars, if anyone else wants some let me know soon. As a heads up, I will need payment prior to my ordering any parts.
(09-16-2012, 06:23 PM)Turbo Thank for the input om616
You would no happen to know where to look for some electronic operated nozzle that would be able to run on a om606.962 engine with a common rail system for some serious tuning
I think I can safely say that you are looking at a set of custom made injectors.
The trick would really be to get the pintle nozzles to interface with the electronic actuation housing.
Good luck with that one!
The package from China arrived today with the 315 nozzles.
With the naked eye I can see that they have a flat on the pintle for the pre spray, but I need to get the camera for the Microscope working to get some close ups.
Still waiting on the official price for the Bosio and Monark nozzles.
(09-16-2012, 06:23 PM)Turbo Thank for the input om616
You would no happen to know where to look for some electronic operated nozzle that would be able to run on a om606.962 engine with a common rail system for some serious tuning
I think I can safely say that you are looking at a set of custom made injectors.
The trick would really be to get the pintle nozzles to interface with the electronic actuation housing.
Good luck with that one!
The package from China arrived today with the 315 nozzles.
With the naked eye I can see that they have a flat on the pintle for the pre spray, but I need to get the camera for the Microscope working to get some close ups.
Still waiting on the official price for the Bosio and Monark nozzles.
yes your are right I am looking for custom made injectors, any tips
Do you have more information about the 315 nozzle? I am specially interested since you mention the have pre spray. I am really looking forward to hear what you find out abut trying at 175 bar, keep up the good work
(09-17-2012, 03:20 PM)OM616(09-16-2012, 06:23 PM)Turbo Thank for the input om616
You would no happen to know where to look for some electronic operated nozzle that would be able to run on a om606.962 engine with a common rail system for some serious tuning
I think I can safely say that you are looking at a set of custom made injectors.
The trick would really be to get the pintle nozzles to interface with the electronic actuation housing.
Good luck with that one!
The package from China arrived today with the 315 nozzles.
With the naked eye I can see that they have a flat on the pintle for the pre spray, but I need to get the camera for the Microscope working to get some close ups.
Still waiting on the official price for the Bosio and Monark nozzles.
Thanks for the input
yes your are right I am looking for custom made injectors, any tips
Do you have more information about the 315 nozzle? I am specially interested since you mention the have pre spray. I am really looking forward to hear what you find out abut trying at 175 bar, keep up the good work
(09-17-2012, 03:20 PM)OM616(09-16-2012, 06:23 PM)Turbo Thank for the input om616
You would no happen to know where to look for some electronic operated nozzle that would be able to run on a om606.962 engine with a common rail system for some serious tuning
I think I can safely say that you are looking at a set of custom made injectors.
The trick would really be to get the pintle nozzles to interface with the electronic actuation housing.
Good luck with that one!
The package from China arrived today with the 315 nozzles.
With the naked eye I can see that they have a flat on the pintle for the pre spray, but I need to get the camera for the Microscope working to get some close ups.
Still waiting on the official price for the Bosio and Monark nozzles.
I bought set of cheap nozzles for my om603 about six months ago and they are already in bad condition. Almost all of the nozzles are leaking and when engine is cold one injector is jamming which makes hell of a lot noise and engine runs with five cylinders until it gets little warmer. And blue/gray smoke cloud can be seen from rear mirror
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
I can give a good advice for everyone: don't buy cheap nozzles I bought set of cheap nozzles for my om603 about six months ago and they are already in bad condition. Almost all of the nozzles are leaking and when engine is cold one injector is jamming which makes hell of a lot noise and engine runs with five cylinders until it gets little warmer. And blue/gray smoke cloud can be seen from rear mirror
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
(09-18-2012, 04:23 PM)Siekkinen I can give a good advice for everyone: don't buy cheap nozzles
Good advice lol. I will be installing Bosios with my pump, and Monarks in the 300D. I got the China ones to see how they were. Jury is still out, there are many China manufacturers, these were not the cheapest ones I have seen, but tests will determine the quality.
(09-18-2012, 04:09 PM)Turbo Thanks for the input
yes your are right I am looking for custom made injectors, any tips
Do you have more information about the 315 nozzle? I am specially interested since you mention the have pre spray. I am really looking forward to hear what you find out abut trying at 175 bar, keep up the good work
I have decided to go with 135 bar initially as the proper springs are available, 175 bar would require a proper spring in order to keep the rate and total force where it should be for best operation.
My recommendation to you is to take the money that you want to spend for the injection system, and use it for a vacation on a beach, and drink beverages out of coconuts. You will surly feel better about the spent money that way.
(09-18-2012, 04:23 PM)Siekkinen I can give a good advice for everyone: don't buy cheap nozzles
Good advice lol. I will be installing Bosios with my pump, and Monarks in the 300D. I got the China ones to see how they were. Jury is still out, there are many China manufacturers, these were not the cheapest ones I have seen, but tests will determine the quality.
(09-18-2012, 04:09 PM)Turbo Thanks for the input
yes your are right I am looking for custom made injectors, any tips
Do you have more information about the 315 nozzle? I am specially interested since you mention the have pre spray. I am really looking forward to hear what you find out abut trying at 175 bar, keep up the good work
I have decided to go with 135 bar initially as the proper springs are available, 175 bar would require a proper spring in order to keep the rate and total force where it should be for best operation.
My recommendation to you is to take the money that you want to spend for the injection system, and use it for a vacation on a beach, and drink beverages out of coconuts. You will surly feel better about the spent money that way.
but I will be working on to see if I can make some inevertable progressPeople has often said about my projects that they are impossible or they will not work but to see there faces when it work out-beats any vacation on a beach, and drink beverages out of coconuts, I can sit on a beach for 15minutes and do that then it starts to crawl under my skin, but that's me, I really liked what somebody said
-"To boldly go where no man has gone before"
In my experience nobody give you respect and say hey man it was so impressive to see you on the beach and drink from a coconut
please keep up your good work and I will do my best to get my on the way
My recommendation to you is to take the money that you want to spend for the injection system, and use it for a vacation on a beach, and drink beverages out of coconuts. You will surly feel better about the spent money that way.
[/quote]
Thanks for that Advice but I will be working on to see if I can make some inevertable progress
People has often said about my projects that they are impossible or they will not work but to see there faces when it work out-beats any vacation on a beach, and drink beverages out of coconuts, I can sit on a beach for 15minutes and do that then it starts to crawl under my skin, but that's me, I really liked what somebody said
-"To boldly go where no man has gone before"
In my experience nobody give you respect and say hey man it was so impressive to see you on the beach and drink from a coconut
please keep up your good work and I will do my best to get my on the way
My recommendation to you is to take the money that you want to spend for the injection system, and use it for a vacation on a beach, and drink beverages out of coconuts. You will surly feel better about the spent money that way.
[/quote]
(09-18-2012, 06:51 PM)OM616 Good advice lol. I will be installing Bosios with my pump, and Monarks in the 300D. I got the China ones to see how they were. Jury is still out, there are many China manufacturers, these were not the cheapest ones I have seen, but tests will determine the quality.
I think that my nozzles are italian. They were 17 euros/each when I bought them. How much does Bosio or Monark nozzles cost in states? Here they are about 45 euros/each so full set costs pretty much but they are supposed to be good though. Almost 300 euros is high price in this money situation. My car eats all my money
Don't you think that 175 bar injection pressure makes engine knock? Injection is so fast with that pressure.
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
(09-18-2012, 06:51 PM)OM616 Good advice lol. I will be installing Bosios with my pump, and Monarks in the 300D. I got the China ones to see how they were. Jury is still out, there are many China manufacturers, these were not the cheapest ones I have seen, but tests will determine the quality.
I think that my nozzles are italian. They were 17 euros/each when I bought them. How much does Bosio or Monark nozzles cost in states? Here they are about 45 euros/each so full set costs pretty much but they are supposed to be good though. Almost 300 euros is high price in this money situation. My car eats all my money
Don't you think that 175 bar injection pressure makes engine knock? Injection is so fast with that pressure.
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
(09-19-2012, 02:37 PM)Siekkinen I think that my nozzles are italian. They were 17 euros/each when I bought them. How much does Bosio or Monark nozzles cost in states? Here they are about 45 euros/each so full set costs pretty much but they are supposed to be good though. Almost 300 euros is high price in this money situation. My car eats all my money
Don't you think that 175 bar injection pressure makes engine knock? Injection is so fast with that pressure.
Keep in mind that the highest quality nozzle will be damaged by a number of things, poor fuel, water, dirt, etc. It is critical to determine what the root cause of the failure was regardless of where the nozzle was made.
I have heard of Bosio nozzles for $40-$45 USD and Monark Nozzles for $20-$30 USD. I am still waiting to get a hard number of each.
As a reference, AAZ injectors have a 300bar main pop pressure, something to think about.
(09-19-2012, 02:37 PM)Siekkinen I think that my nozzles are italian. They were 17 euros/each when I bought them. How much does Bosio or Monark nozzles cost in states? Here they are about 45 euros/each so full set costs pretty much but they are supposed to be good though. Almost 300 euros is high price in this money situation. My car eats all my money
Don't you think that 175 bar injection pressure makes engine knock? Injection is so fast with that pressure.
Keep in mind that the highest quality nozzle will be damaged by a number of things, poor fuel, water, dirt, etc. It is critical to determine what the root cause of the failure was regardless of where the nozzle was made.
I have heard of Bosio nozzles for $40-$45 USD and Monark Nozzles for $20-$30 USD. I am still waiting to get a hard number of each.
As a reference, AAZ injectors have a 300bar main pop pressure, something to think about.
(09-19-2012, 04:04 PM)OM616 As a reference, AAZ injectors have a 300bar main pop pressure, something to think about.
Are you sure about the 300bar pressure?
According to my information the specification for AAZ 2stage injectors is 150bar and 210bar. But the throttle effect at medium and high rpm is relatively high with those nozzle holders compared to the Mercedes nozzle holders.
Gruß
Volker
(09-19-2012, 04:04 PM)OM616 As a reference, AAZ injectors have a 300bar main pop pressure, something to think about.
Are you sure about the 300bar pressure?
According to my information the specification for AAZ 2stage injectors is 150bar and 210bar. But the throttle effect at medium and high rpm is relatively high with those nozzle holders compared to the Mercedes nozzle holders.
Gruß
Volker
(09-19-2012, 04:04 PM)OM616 Keep in mind that the highest quality nozzle will be damaged by a number of things, poor fuel, water, dirt, etc. It is critical to determine what the root cause of the failure was regardless of where the nozzle was made.
I have heard of Bosio nozzles for $40-$45 USD and Monark Nozzles for $20-$30 USD. I am still waiting to get a hard number of each.
As a reference, AAZ injectors have a 300bar main pop pressure, something to think about.
Fuel wasn't poor, there couldn't be any water in fuel and I changed nozzles really carefully and parts were clean. And I forgot where I put old nozzles so I can't change them back
VW engine is not comparable to the MB engine cause it runs bad and knocks even with stock engine
I haven't ever tried that big opening pressure so I can't say anything sure to it. Of course you should try it if it makes some difference in power. At least fast injection is guaranteed and if I understand correctly, it is your purpose.
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
(09-19-2012, 04:04 PM)OM616 Keep in mind that the highest quality nozzle will be damaged by a number of things, poor fuel, water, dirt, etc. It is critical to determine what the root cause of the failure was regardless of where the nozzle was made.
I have heard of Bosio nozzles for $40-$45 USD and Monark Nozzles for $20-$30 USD. I am still waiting to get a hard number of each.
As a reference, AAZ injectors have a 300bar main pop pressure, something to think about.
Fuel wasn't poor, there couldn't be any water in fuel and I changed nozzles really carefully and parts were clean. And I forgot where I put old nozzles so I can't change them back
VW engine is not comparable to the MB engine cause it runs bad and knocks even with stock engine
I haven't ever tried that big opening pressure so I can't say anything sure to it. Of course you should try it if it makes some difference in power. At least fast injection is guaranteed and if I understand correctly, it is your purpose.
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
(09-19-2012, 04:32 PM)Volker407(09-19-2012, 04:04 PM)OM616 As a reference, AAZ injectors have a 300bar main pop pressure, something to think about.
Are you sure about the 300bar pressure?
According to my information the specification for AAZ 2stage injectors is 150bar and 210bar. But the throttle effect at medium and high rpm is relatively high with those nozzle holders compared to the Mercedes nozzle holders.
Gruß
Volker
The specks I have seen for the AAZs is that it was 190 bar initial, and 300 main, then they changed it to 200 initial and 300 main.
I found most of that info on VW forums, of course if it is on the internet it must be true.... LOL
(09-19-2012, 04:32 PM)Volker407(09-19-2012, 04:04 PM)OM616 As a reference, AAZ injectors have a 300bar main pop pressure, something to think about.
Are you sure about the 300bar pressure?
According to my information the specification for AAZ 2stage injectors is 150bar and 210bar. But the throttle effect at medium and high rpm is relatively high with those nozzle holders compared to the Mercedes nozzle holders.
Gruß
Volker
The specks I have seen for the AAZs is that it was 190 bar initial, and 300 main, then they changed it to 200 initial and 300 main.
I found most of that info on VW forums, of course if it is on the internet it must be true.... LOL
They encouraged me to test them.
For grins, I asked the China manufacturer about their performance life expectations for the nozzles they make. They said that their nozzles come with a 10 month warranty. I was surprised to hear that, makes me even more hopeful.
They encouraged me to test them.
The Bosch nozzle had just under 200K on it and a lot of years of heat cycles as well.
The Bosch came in at a 52 Rc and the China came in at 62 Rc.
I was expecting the China one to be soft, but it is right where I would expect it to be.
I am going to try to get my microscope hooked up to the computer this weekend so I can get some close ups of the pintle tip.
(09-18-2012, 04:09 PM)Turbo Thanks for the input
yes your are right I am looking for custom made injectors, any tips
If you end up designing you own injector assemblies, I would be interested in machining up the custom bodies, provided you have a print of course.
NDA would be a must with out saying.
I just did a hardness comparison between the China nozzle and a 1978 Bosch nozzle that was made in France.
The Bosch nozzle had just under 200K on it and a lot of years of heat cycles as well.
The Bosch came in at a 52 Rc and the China came in at 62 Rc.
I was expecting the China one to be soft, but it is right where I would expect it to be.
I am going to try to get my microscope hooked up to the computer this weekend so I can get some close ups of the pintle tip.
(09-18-2012, 04:09 PM)Turbo Thanks for the input
yes your are right I am looking for custom made injectors, any tips
If you end up designing you own injector assemblies, I would be interested in machining up the custom bodies, provided you have a print of course.
NDA would be a must with out saying.
I received the Bosio 315 Nozzles and think I have a line on some Monark ones but there seems to be some communication issues.
I am looking for 135 bar injector bodies to install the new nozzles in and am wondering if there is an advantage with using used ones as the springs should have taken a set a long time ago and should be very stable, as apposed to a new spring that may drift until it has taken a set.
Any thoughts??
So I thought I would up date this thread.
I received the Bosio 315 Nozzles and think I have a line on some Monark ones but there seems to be some communication issues.
I am looking for 135 bar injector bodies to install the new nozzles in and am wondering if there is an advantage with using used ones as the springs should have taken a set a long time ago and should be very stable, as apposed to a new spring that may drift until it has taken a set.
Any thoughts??
(09-19-2012, 02:37 PM)Siekkinen I think that my nozzles are italian. They were 17 euros/each when I bought them. ....
I have been seeing HENZO nozzles being used in various applications around the 'net. They are made in northern Italy, I wonder if it's the same outfit you used.
Here is the site to buy them.
http://www.dieselsend.de/duesen.shtml
They have DN0SD261, DN0SD265 and DN0SD314 nozzles.
.
(11-06-2012, 06:12 PM)OM616 ....
I am looking for 135 bar injector bodies to install the new nozzles in and am wondering if there is an advantage with using used ones as the springs should have taken a set a long time ago and should be very stable, as apposed to a new spring that may drift until it has taken a set.
Any thoughts??
I don't see a problem as rebuilders almost always reuse then springs. I think your assessment of the stabilization of the spring is something that has to be considered.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
11-06-2012, 07:49 PM #41(09-19-2012, 02:37 PM)Siekkinen I think that my nozzles are italian. They were 17 euros/each when I bought them. ....
I have been seeing HENZO nozzles being used in various applications around the 'net. They are made in northern Italy, I wonder if it's the same outfit you used.
Here is the site to buy them.
http://www.dieselsend.de/duesen.shtml
They have DN0SD261, DN0SD265 and DN0SD314 nozzles.
.
(11-06-2012, 06:12 PM)OM616 ....
I am looking for 135 bar injector bodies to install the new nozzles in and am wondering if there is an advantage with using used ones as the springs should have taken a set a long time ago and should be very stable, as apposed to a new spring that may drift until it has taken a set.
Any thoughts??
I don't see a problem as rebuilders almost always reuse then springs. I think your assessment of the stabilization of the spring is something that has to be considered.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
(11-06-2012, 06:12 PM)OM616 I am looking for 135 bar injector bodies to install the new nozzles in and am wondering if there is an advantage with using used ones as the springs should have taken a set a long time ago and should be very stable, as apposed to a new spring that may drift until it has taken a set.
Any thoughts??
To see a significant pressure change caused by a new spring you would have to wait serveral years or drive at least 25.000miles. I don´t think you want to try the nozzles out that long
Gruß
Volker
(11-06-2012, 06:12 PM)OM616 I am looking for 135 bar injector bodies to install the new nozzles in and am wondering if there is an advantage with using used ones as the springs should have taken a set a long time ago and should be very stable, as apposed to a new spring that may drift until it has taken a set.
Any thoughts??
To see a significant pressure change caused by a new spring you would have to wait serveral years or drive at least 25.000miles. I don´t think you want to try the nozzles out that long
Gruß
Volker
(11-06-2012, 07:49 PM)DeliveryValve(09-19-2012, 02:37 PM)Siekkinen I think that my nozzles are italian. They were 17 euros/each when I bought them. ....
I have been seeing HENZO nozzles being used in various applications around the 'net. They are made in northern Italy, I wonder if it's the same outfit you used.
Here is the site to buy them.
http://www.dieselsend.de/duesen.shtml
They have DN0SD261, DN0SD265 and DN0SD314 nozzles.
I can't remember what brand they are. But if you ask me, don't buy them. It's just waste of money to buy cheap nozzles several times a year.
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
(11-06-2012, 07:49 PM)DeliveryValve(09-19-2012, 02:37 PM)Siekkinen I think that my nozzles are italian. They were 17 euros/each when I bought them. ....
I have been seeing HENZO nozzles being used in various applications around the 'net. They are made in northern Italy, I wonder if it's the same outfit you used.
Here is the site to buy them.
http://www.dieselsend.de/duesen.shtml
They have DN0SD261, DN0SD265 and DN0SD314 nozzles.
I can't remember what brand they are. But if you ask me, don't buy them. It's just waste of money to buy cheap nozzles several times a year.
w124 300 STD/daily driver
w202 250 TDT
w201 2.6E
I found this doc on nozzle design.
(11-13-2012, 04:09 PM)OM616 I found this doc on nozzle design.
Interesting find. Thanks!
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
11-14-2012, 07:17 PM #45(11-13-2012, 04:09 PM)OM616 I found this doc on nozzle design.
Interesting find. Thanks!
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
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