Timing of the IP
Timing of the IP
11-23-2012, 08:48 PM
#1
Since I am somewhat home bound for at least another week, I want to to get a definitive lock down of information and the process to correctly set the IP on the OM617.9XX engine. Having more years behind me versus in front of me, I remember the good old days when one could just turn the distributor on a gas engine and "time" it by ear. Heck, I remember setting points and even cars with a postive ground system, e.g., my old beloved Packard.
So, any one out there on a step by step, EZ PROCESS on the timing? I am wondering if it's like adjusting the valves. Once you get the trick down of turning the bottom nut to the front of the engine and then the top nut the same direction, one can breeze thru the process in about 30 minutes. The first time I did it, it took about 3 hours and I was royally frustrated and PO'd. Now, it's simple and fun, like injectors for me. I can change all the fluids, all the filters, do the injectors and the valves like a pro, even with my own tricks and shortcuts. BUT, and BUT ... timing and making sure the injection pump is on the money ... ANOTHER MYSTERY TO ME.
I solicited Goran to make a Video -- so, PLEASE pester him to make one if that is an option.
ANYONE OUT THERE ???
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Howdy,
Since I am somewhat home bound for at least another week, I want to to get a definitive lock down of information and the process to correctly set the IP on the OM617.9XX engine. Having more years behind me versus in front of me, I remember the good old days when one could just turn the distributor on a gas engine and "time" it by ear. Heck, I remember setting points and even cars with a postive ground system, e.g., my old beloved Packard.
So, any one out there on a step by step, EZ PROCESS on the timing? I am wondering if it's like adjusting the valves. Once you get the trick down of turning the bottom nut to the front of the engine and then the top nut the same direction, one can breeze thru the process in about 30 minutes. The first time I did it, it took about 3 hours and I was royally frustrated and PO'd. Now, it's simple and fun, like injectors for me. I can change all the fluids, all the filters, do the injectors and the valves like a pro, even with my own tricks and shortcuts. BUT, and BUT ... timing and making sure the injection pump is on the money ... ANOTHER MYSTERY TO ME.
I solicited Goran to make a Video -- so, PLEASE pester him to make one if that is an option.
ANYONE OUT THERE ???
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
11-23-2012, 11:20 PM
#2
If everything is catty wompus make sure the crank is at 24*, the cam is at the timing marks (with on the #1 upstroke), and the IP is set to either to the marks straight on (or off by a little bit-there was a bad batch).
Once that's close, remove the DVs, and install your drip tube. rotate towards and back from the engine, with the 3 nuts snug to the block. It takes some wiggling to get it to properly drip.
Got it first time on my engine, set to 26*
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
11-23-2012, 11:20 PM #2It's really really easy-just go slow.
If everything is catty wompus make sure the crank is at 24*, the cam is at the timing marks (with on the #1 upstroke), and the IP is set to either to the marks straight on (or off by a little bit-there was a bad batch).
Once that's close, remove the DVs, and install your drip tube. rotate towards and back from the engine, with the 3 nuts snug to the block. It takes some wiggling to get it to properly drip.
Got it first time on my engine, set to 26*
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
12-01-2012, 07:14 PM
#4
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
BINGO AND X 1,000
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-09-2012, 12:34 AM
#6
I guess maybe it's not but it took me like 10 or 12 shots at it before i got it. If you think about it that cam has like 50 teeth on it so what are the chances that you hit the right one. I mean you try and get it on the right one but what could happen?
1. you miss by about 180 degrees
2. you miss by 1 or 2 teeth either way.
You're supposed to turn the crankshaft till it is set at the 24BTDC and then also check to see that the front most cams have their lobes pointy end more toward the sky than the earth.
I guess the camshaft turns 2 times per 1 turn of the crank.
There are many threads on the topic. Best of luck and keep us posted.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
yes, it is that difficult
I guess maybe it's not but it took me like 10 or 12 shots at it before i got it. If you think about it that cam has like 50 teeth on it so what are the chances that you hit the right one. I mean you try and get it on the right one but what could happen?
1. you miss by about 180 degrees
2. you miss by 1 or 2 teeth either way.
You're supposed to turn the crankshaft till it is set at the 24BTDC and then also check to see that the front most cams have their lobes pointy end more toward the sky than the earth.
I guess the camshaft turns 2 times per 1 turn of the crank.
There are many threads on the topic. Best of luck and keep us posted.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
12-09-2012, 02:44 PM
#8
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
I got Ryan's info. So, please shoot me an email too since I am still not 100% comfortable doing it
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-09-2012, 05:30 PM
#9
Set the motor to the desired timing (around 26?)
Pull the DVs, install the drip tube (bought or made)on injector #1 and slightly loosen the
IP mounting bolts.
Hand pump it and rotate the IP until you get regular 1second drips. Finding the sweet spot is a whore, it will go pull pour, then nothing, and you will have one hell of a time doing it the first time. having the mounting bolts snug makes a big difference in keeping everything still.
Don't be a wimp, tear it up!
This post was last modified: 12-09-2012, 07:02 PM by Simpler=Better.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-09-2012, 05:30 PM #9make a witness mark before you do anything, then:
Set the motor to the desired timing (around 26?)
Pull the DVs, install the drip tube (bought or made)on injector #1 and slightly loosen the
IP mounting bolts.
Hand pump it and rotate the IP until you get regular 1second drips. Finding the sweet spot is a whore, it will go pull pour, then nothing, and you will have one hell of a time doing it the first time. having the mounting bolts snug makes a big difference in keeping everything still.
Don't be a wimp, tear it up!
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
12-09-2012, 10:14 PM
#11
Thanks ! I just sent you a PM.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Hey,
Thanks ! I just sent you a PM.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-09-2012, 10:41 PM
#12
Austincarnut
12-09-2012, 10:41 PM #12hey mark, these cars are very forgiving, follow the instructions to the 't' and you'll be all set!, make sure your chain isn't stretched, hell you can even facetime one of us if you wish...
12-10-2012, 07:27 AM
#13
Let me show you some pictures of my exhaust manifold that I just "cured" with the VHT paint. It looks like a damm burnt hotdog. That ruined my Saturday.
Right now, I'm in the dumps ... poop. LOL. Cannot even cook an exhaust manifold with controlled heat. I hate the re-do.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
VERY Forgiving ... LOL.
Let me show you some pictures of my exhaust manifold that I just "cured" with the VHT paint. It looks like a damm burnt hotdog. That ruined my Saturday.
Right now, I'm in the dumps ... poop. LOL. Cannot even cook an exhaust manifold with controlled heat. I hate the re-do.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-10-2012, 08:18 AM
#14
(12-10-2012, 07:27 AM)Greazzer VERY Forgiving ... LOL.
Let me show you some pictures of my exhaust manifold that I just "cured" with the VHT paint. It looks like a damm burnt hotdog. That ruined my Saturday.
Right now, I'm in the dumps ... poop. LOL. Cannot even cook an exhaust manifold with controlled heat. I hate the re-do.
Color doesn't matter...the coating is for anti rust, isn't it? Besides, it was going to get dirty in the engine bay eventually. They only stay clean for around 2k miles
Personally I prefer dirty fiberglass wrap...Got it on bike and my DD truck.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-10-2012, 08:18 AM #14(12-10-2012, 07:27 AM)Greazzer VERY Forgiving ... LOL.
Let me show you some pictures of my exhaust manifold that I just "cured" with the VHT paint. It looks like a damm burnt hotdog. That ruined my Saturday.
Right now, I'm in the dumps ... poop. LOL. Cannot even cook an exhaust manifold with controlled heat. I hate the re-do.
Color doesn't matter...the coating is for anti rust, isn't it? Besides, it was going to get dirty in the engine bay eventually. They only stay clean for around 2k miles
Personally I prefer dirty fiberglass wrap...Got it on bike and my DD truck.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
12-10-2012, 09:48 AM
#15
Here's what I am doing.
- Making sure the mark on the IP drive gear lines up with the mark on the IP housing. (this is not one of the pumps were the mark is off by a couple teeth)
- Setting the engine to 24 degrees BTDC. Cylinder 1 exhaust cam lobe is pointing up and to the right.
- Slide IP into place and check timing.
There are two locations the pump will slide in. One will give an adjustment range of approximately 20 BTDC to TDC. The other is approximately 10 BTDC to 10 ATDC.
Any ideas on what is going on?
This post was last modified: 12-10-2012, 11:05 AM by Torkey.
I've set the timing successfully many times on the IP. What I'm having problems with is getting the IP installed so 24 degrees is in the adjustment range. After installing and reinstalling the IP at least 30 times I've got as close as 20 degrees BTDC with the IP rotated to max advance.
Here's what I am doing.
- Making sure the mark on the IP drive gear lines up with the mark on the IP housing. (this is not one of the pumps were the mark is off by a couple teeth)
- Setting the engine to 24 degrees BTDC. Cylinder 1 exhaust cam lobe is pointing up and to the right.
- Slide IP into place and check timing.
There are two locations the pump will slide in. One will give an adjustment range of approximately 20 BTDC to TDC. The other is approximately 10 BTDC to 10 ATDC.
Any ideas on what is going on?
12-10-2012, 12:11 PM
#16
(12-10-2012, 09:48 AM)Torkey I've set the timing successfully many times on the IP. What I'm having problems with is getting the IP installed so 24 degrees is in the adjustment range. After installing and reinstalling the IP at least 30 times I've got as close as 20 degrees BTDC with the IP rotated to max advance.
Here's what I am doing.
- Making sure the mark on the IP drive gear lines up with the mark on the IP housing. (this is not one of the pumps were the mark is off by a couple teeth)
- Setting the engine to 24 degrees BTDC. Cylinder 1 exhaust cam lobe is pointing up and to the right.
- Slide IP into place and check timing.
There are two locations the pump will slide in. One will give an adjustment range of approximately 20 BTDC to TDC. The other is approximately 10 BTDC to 10 ATDC.
Any ideas on what is going on?
Probibly chain stretch.
Have you tried to put the engine at say around 26 degrees? Sounds like with the engine at 24 the installation is retarded, so the engine needs to be set a touch advanced to put your adjustment range in range.
Either that or advance the IP cam a tooth then install @ 24 degrees and see where you are at.
That is why I like the dial indicator, I can tell if the IP cam jumps.
This post was last modified: 12-10-2012, 12:38 PM by OM616.
(12-10-2012, 09:48 AM)Torkey I've set the timing successfully many times on the IP. What I'm having problems with is getting the IP installed so 24 degrees is in the adjustment range. After installing and reinstalling the IP at least 30 times I've got as close as 20 degrees BTDC with the IP rotated to max advance.
Here's what I am doing.
- Making sure the mark on the IP drive gear lines up with the mark on the IP housing. (this is not one of the pumps were the mark is off by a couple teeth)
- Setting the engine to 24 degrees BTDC. Cylinder 1 exhaust cam lobe is pointing up and to the right.
- Slide IP into place and check timing.
There are two locations the pump will slide in. One will give an adjustment range of approximately 20 BTDC to TDC. The other is approximately 10 BTDC to 10 ATDC.
Any ideas on what is going on?
Probibly chain stretch.
Have you tried to put the engine at say around 26 degrees? Sounds like with the engine at 24 the installation is retarded, so the engine needs to be set a touch advanced to put your adjustment range in range.
Either that or advance the IP cam a tooth then install @ 24 degrees and see where you are at.
That is why I like the dial indicator, I can tell if the IP cam jumps.
12-10-2012, 01:52 PM
#17
(12-10-2012, 12:11 PM)OM616 That is why I like the dial indicator, I can tell if the IP cam jumps.
I've heard of drip timing, and looking for the locking tooth, is this another mysterious method?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-10-2012, 01:52 PM #17(12-10-2012, 12:11 PM)OM616 That is why I like the dial indicator, I can tell if the IP cam jumps.
I've heard of drip timing, and looking for the locking tooth, is this another mysterious method?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
12-10-2012, 02:56 PM
#18
(12-10-2012, 12:11 PM)OM616 Probibly chain stretch.I think you are onto something here.
Have you tried to put the engine at say around 26 degrees? Sounds like with the engine at 24 the installation is retarded, so the engine needs to be set a touch advanced to put your adjustment range in range.
Either that or advance the IP cam a tooth then install @ 24 degrees and see where you are at.
That is why I like the dial indicator, I can tell if the IP cam jumps.
Regarding the chain stretch... I've put in a woodruff key to eliminate the stretch and also advanced the valve timing a few degrees for better low end torque.
That might be enough to explain what is happening. I will play around with where the engine is set and see if that will help.
(12-10-2012, 12:11 PM)OM616 Probibly chain stretch.I think you are onto something here.
Have you tried to put the engine at say around 26 degrees? Sounds like with the engine at 24 the installation is retarded, so the engine needs to be set a touch advanced to put your adjustment range in range.
Either that or advance the IP cam a tooth then install @ 24 degrees and see where you are at.
That is why I like the dial indicator, I can tell if the IP cam jumps.
Regarding the chain stretch... I've put in a woodruff key to eliminate the stretch and also advanced the valve timing a few degrees for better low end torque.
That might be enough to explain what is happening. I will play around with where the engine is set and see if that will help.
12-10-2012, 05:07 PM
#19
Maybe I am missing the boat on this altoghether.
Is setting the timing truely mechanical such as adjusting the injectors or the valves, et cet. That is, all one needs are the correct tools, procedures, and the spec's ? Or, is this more a matter of art and Kentucky windage ?
I thought it would be simple and straight forward and just a matter of setting it to the spec ?
Very confused right now ! Poop
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Hey IP timing guru's --
Maybe I am missing the boat on this altoghether.
Is setting the timing truely mechanical such as adjusting the injectors or the valves, et cet. That is, all one needs are the correct tools, procedures, and the spec's ? Or, is this more a matter of art and Kentucky windage ?
I thought it would be simple and straight forward and just a matter of setting it to the spec ?
Very confused right now ! Poop
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-10-2012, 05:42 PM
#20
(12-10-2012, 05:07 PM)Greazzer Hey IP timing guru's --
Maybe I am missing the boat on this altoghether.
Is setting the timing truely mechanical such as adjusting the injectors or the valves, et cet. That is, all one needs are the correct tools, procedures, and the spec's ? Or, is this more a matter of art and Kentucky windage ?
I thought it would be simple and straight forward and just a matter of setting it to the spec ?
Very confused right now ! Poop
You are exactly correct in your "truly mechanical" description, that is exactly what it is, however the method that MB has chosen to identify the mechanical events is piss poor IMOP.
Like I said in my PM, what is being set is the relationship between the fill port closure of the element to the crankshaft. By the book, the goal is to set the fill port closure to 24 degrees BTDC.
The Fill port is closed by the element plunger as it is lifted by the IP cam, so to look at it another way, as I do when I set IP timing, is to look for the amount of plunger lift required to close the fill port to be achieved at 24 degrees. Now to do that one needs to know at what plunger lift is the fill port closed, on a stock MW pump that is used with MB auto engines, that measurement is 2.15mm (5.5mm elements, setting tolerance is 2.10/2.20mm)
It is strictly mechanical, the plunger that is mechanically driven by the IP cam, needs to be lifted 2.15mm when the crank is at 24 degrees BTDC. With the drip method, port closure is identified when the steady stream of fuel suddenly becomes a drip, (throttle has to be a full power for this to work properly), the problem is the IP cam is very radical and it is easy to go past port closer and not know it. With the indicator, you can see exactly where the plunger is at all times, so if it bumps over a bit you can see it.
(12-10-2012, 01:52 PM)Simpler=Better I've heard of drip timing, and looking for the locking tooth, is this another mysterious method?
Nothing the see here folks..... everyone move along now....
[size=large]After checking my notes for a stock MW pump with 5.5mm elements, I see that the lift to port closure of 2.5mm is not correct, that is for the last 10mm pump I built, the corect lift speck for 5.5mm MW elements is 2.15mm. I corected the text above but wanted to add a note for those who may have read the origonal post with the incorect speck.
This post was last modified: 12-11-2012, 01:02 PM by OM616.
[/color][/size]
(12-10-2012, 05:07 PM)Greazzer Hey IP timing guru's --
Maybe I am missing the boat on this altoghether.
Is setting the timing truely mechanical such as adjusting the injectors or the valves, et cet. That is, all one needs are the correct tools, procedures, and the spec's ? Or, is this more a matter of art and Kentucky windage ?
I thought it would be simple and straight forward and just a matter of setting it to the spec ?
Very confused right now ! Poop
You are exactly correct in your "truly mechanical" description, that is exactly what it is, however the method that MB has chosen to identify the mechanical events is piss poor IMOP.
Like I said in my PM, what is being set is the relationship between the fill port closure of the element to the crankshaft. By the book, the goal is to set the fill port closure to 24 degrees BTDC.
The Fill port is closed by the element plunger as it is lifted by the IP cam, so to look at it another way, as I do when I set IP timing, is to look for the amount of plunger lift required to close the fill port to be achieved at 24 degrees. Now to do that one needs to know at what plunger lift is the fill port closed, on a stock MW pump that is used with MB auto engines, that measurement is 2.15mm (5.5mm elements, setting tolerance is 2.10/2.20mm)
It is strictly mechanical, the plunger that is mechanically driven by the IP cam, needs to be lifted 2.15mm when the crank is at 24 degrees BTDC. With the drip method, port closure is identified when the steady stream of fuel suddenly becomes a drip, (throttle has to be a full power for this to work properly), the problem is the IP cam is very radical and it is easy to go past port closer and not know it. With the indicator, you can see exactly where the plunger is at all times, so if it bumps over a bit you can see it.
(12-10-2012, 01:52 PM)Simpler=Better I've heard of drip timing, and looking for the locking tooth, is this another mysterious method?
Nothing the see here folks..... everyone move along now....
[size=large]After checking my notes for a stock MW pump with 5.5mm elements, I see that the lift to port closure of 2.5mm is not correct, that is for the last 10mm pump I built, the corect lift speck for 5.5mm MW elements is 2.15mm. I corected the text above but wanted to add a note for those who may have read the origonal post with the incorect speck.
12-11-2012, 06:34 AM
#21
(12-10-2012, 05:07 PM)Greazzer Is setting the timing truely mechanical such as adjusting the injectors or the valves, et cet. That is, all one needs are the correct tools, procedures, and the spec's ? Or, is this more a matter of art and Kentucky windage ?
I thought it would be simple and straight forward and just a matter of setting it to the spec ?
Basically it is a mechanical thing.
But if you have non-stock injectors like most people here probably have you may have set the "begin of delivery" on the pump and on the engine right.
But the "begin of injection" still may be not as exact as necessary as the modified injectors can change the real timing.
That´s why I use a diesel timing pistol for stuff like that. Only then you know what´s going on.
Gruß
Volker
This post was last modified: 12-11-2012, 06:36 AM by Volker407.
(12-10-2012, 05:07 PM)Greazzer Is setting the timing truely mechanical such as adjusting the injectors or the valves, et cet. That is, all one needs are the correct tools, procedures, and the spec's ? Or, is this more a matter of art and Kentucky windage ?
I thought it would be simple and straight forward and just a matter of setting it to the spec ?
Basically it is a mechanical thing.
But if you have non-stock injectors like most people here probably have you may have set the "begin of delivery" on the pump and on the engine right.
But the "begin of injection" still may be not as exact as necessary as the modified injectors can change the real timing.
That´s why I use a diesel timing pistol for stuff like that. Only then you know what´s going on.
Gruß
Volker
12-11-2012, 09:51 AM
#22
What the hell is that contraption ? Where does one buy one ? Would that tool work for setting any sort of timing for any OM617.9XX engine ?
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Volker --
What the hell is that contraption ? Where does one buy one ? Would that tool work for setting any sort of timing for any OM617.9XX engine ?
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-11-2012, 12:39 PM
#23
(12-11-2012, 09:51 AM)Greazzer Volker --
What the hell is that contraption ? Where does one buy one ? Would that tool work for setting any sort of timing for any OM617.9XX engine ?
It´s a timing pistol for old diesel engines like I said before. Suitable for any OM616/617/603/606 engine. You put a sensor clamp on the outside of injection line #1, let the engine idle and adjust the gun until the TDC marker on the block is aligning the 0° marker on the crankshaft in the strobe.
Then the gun shows you the real "begin of injection" in degrees with all the influence of the complete injection system. Pretty easy and you don´t have to mess with fuel drip stuff and so on.
The only problem is the price, the cheapest ones I have seen start at 950 Euros.
ebay.com (# 281031578952) has an older Version for sale at the moment, but still expensive
Gruß
Volker
(12-11-2012, 09:51 AM)Greazzer Volker --
What the hell is that contraption ? Where does one buy one ? Would that tool work for setting any sort of timing for any OM617.9XX engine ?
It´s a timing pistol for old diesel engines like I said before. Suitable for any OM616/617/603/606 engine. You put a sensor clamp on the outside of injection line #1, let the engine idle and adjust the gun until the TDC marker on the block is aligning the 0° marker on the crankshaft in the strobe.
Then the gun shows you the real "begin of injection" in degrees with all the influence of the complete injection system. Pretty easy and you don´t have to mess with fuel drip stuff and so on.
The only problem is the price, the cheapest ones I have seen start at 950 Euros.
ebay.com (# 281031578952) has an older Version for sale at the moment, but still expensive
Gruß
Volker
12-11-2012, 12:48 PM
#24
(12-11-2012, 12:39 PM)Volker407(12-11-2012, 09:51 AM)Greazzer Volker --
What the hell is that contraption ? Where does one buy one ? Would that tool work for setting any sort of timing for any OM617.9XX engine ?
It´s a timing pistol for old diesel engines like I said before. Suitable for any OM616/617/603/606 engine. You put a sensor clamp on the outside of injection line #1, let the engine idle and adjust the gun until the TDC marker on the block is aligning the 0° marker on the crankshaft in the strobe.
Then the gun shows you the real "begin of injection" in degrees with all the influence of the complete injection system. Pretty easy and you don´t have to mess with fuel drip stuff and so on.
The only problem is the price, the cheapest ones I have seen start at 950 Euros.
ebay.com (# 281031578952) has an older Version for sale at the moment, but still expensive
Gruß
Volker
Will it work at cranking speed? As in the engine will not start because timing is off too far?
(12-11-2012, 12:39 PM)Volker407(12-11-2012, 09:51 AM)Greazzer Volker --
What the hell is that contraption ? Where does one buy one ? Would that tool work for setting any sort of timing for any OM617.9XX engine ?
It´s a timing pistol for old diesel engines like I said before. Suitable for any OM616/617/603/606 engine. You put a sensor clamp on the outside of injection line #1, let the engine idle and adjust the gun until the TDC marker on the block is aligning the 0° marker on the crankshaft in the strobe.
Then the gun shows you the real "begin of injection" in degrees with all the influence of the complete injection system. Pretty easy and you don´t have to mess with fuel drip stuff and so on.
The only problem is the price, the cheapest ones I have seen start at 950 Euros.
ebay.com (# 281031578952) has an older Version for sale at the moment, but still expensive
Gruß
Volker
Will it work at cranking speed? As in the engine will not start because timing is off too far?
12-11-2012, 01:24 PM
#25
(12-11-2012, 12:48 PM)OM616 Will it work at cranking speed? As in the engine will not start because timing is off too far?
Yes it would work at cranking speed, but the rpm has to stay steady otherwise the gun interrupts the measurement.
I need about 1 min to do a measurement but I believe your battery or your starter will surrender before.
But if your timing is off that far something must have gone very wrong
Gruß
Volker
(12-11-2012, 12:48 PM)OM616 Will it work at cranking speed? As in the engine will not start because timing is off too far?
Yes it would work at cranking speed, but the rpm has to stay steady otherwise the gun interrupts the measurement.
I need about 1 min to do a measurement but I believe your battery or your starter will surrender before.
But if your timing is off that far something must have gone very wrong
Gruß
Volker
12-11-2012, 01:32 PM
#26
(12-11-2012, 01:24 PM)Volker407(12-11-2012, 12:48 PM)OM616 Will it work at cranking speed? As in the engine will not start because timing is off too far?
Yes it would work at cranking speed, but the rpm has to stay steady otherwise the gun interrupts the measurement.
I need about 1 min to do a measurement but I believe your battery or your starter will surrender before.
But if your timing is off that far something must have gone very wrong
Gruß
Volker
My question was aimed at some one installing a pump and trying to static time it. Once it is running, the timing can be fine tuned easily to the individual engine desires using this light.
So what you are saying is to install a pump and set it so the engine will start, the light may not work?
My understanding about using a timing light is that the timing reading is delayed to around 14 degrees BTDC, when the port closure is at 24 degrees, correct?
(12-11-2012, 01:24 PM)Volker407(12-11-2012, 12:48 PM)OM616 Will it work at cranking speed? As in the engine will not start because timing is off too far?
Yes it would work at cranking speed, but the rpm has to stay steady otherwise the gun interrupts the measurement.
I need about 1 min to do a measurement but I believe your battery or your starter will surrender before.
But if your timing is off that far something must have gone very wrong
Gruß
Volker
My question was aimed at some one installing a pump and trying to static time it. Once it is running, the timing can be fine tuned easily to the individual engine desires using this light.
So what you are saying is to install a pump and set it so the engine will start, the light may not work?
My understanding about using a timing light is that the timing reading is delayed to around 14 degrees BTDC, when the port closure is at 24 degrees, correct?
12-11-2012, 01:42 PM
#27
(12-11-2012, 01:24 PM)Volker407(12-11-2012, 12:48 PM)OM616 Will it work at cranking speed? As in the engine will not start because timing is off too far?
Yes it would work at cranking speed, but the rpm has to stay steady otherwise the gun interrupts the measurement.
I need about 1 min to do a measurement but I believe your battery or your starter will surrender before.
But if your timing is off that far something must have gone very wrong
Gruß
Volker
What if you removed the glow plugs from #2-5 and then cranked with the battery you ought to have enough to make an adjustment
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-11-2012, 01:42 PM #27(12-11-2012, 01:24 PM)Volker407(12-11-2012, 12:48 PM)OM616 Will it work at cranking speed? As in the engine will not start because timing is off too far?
Yes it would work at cranking speed, but the rpm has to stay steady otherwise the gun interrupts the measurement.
I need about 1 min to do a measurement but I believe your battery or your starter will surrender before.
But if your timing is off that far something must have gone very wrong
Gruß
Volker
What if you removed the glow plugs from #2-5 and then cranked with the battery you ought to have enough to make an adjustment
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
12-11-2012, 02:01 PM
#28
(12-11-2012, 01:32 PM)OM616 My question was aimed at some one installing a pump and trying to static time it. Once it is running, the timing can be fine tuned easily to the individual engine desires using this light.
I thought your question was if the timing gun will work when the engine is turned only by the starter. Was that your question?
Quote:So what you are saying is to install a pump and set it so the engine will start, the light may not work?As soon as the engine runs and idles the gun works. Due to the manual it works from 70°BTDC - 5°BTDC. But that is only valid for my model, not for the ebay one.
Quote:My understanding about using a timing light is that the timing reading is delayed to around 14 degrees BTDC, when the port closure is at 24 degrees, correct?No, there is a conversion table for every engine. If you use it my timing light displays the exact °BTDC.
On my OM617A it displayed 18°BTDC (I know it´s a little late but that´s how I bought it....)
Gruß
Volker
(12-11-2012, 01:42 PM)Simpler=Better What if you removed the glow plugs from #2-5 and then cranked with the battery you ought to have enough to make an adjustment
Yeah, that might work. Though I Never tried it.
Gruß
Volker
This post was last modified: 12-11-2012, 02:10 PM by Volker407.
(12-11-2012, 01:32 PM)OM616 My question was aimed at some one installing a pump and trying to static time it. Once it is running, the timing can be fine tuned easily to the individual engine desires using this light.
I thought your question was if the timing gun will work when the engine is turned only by the starter. Was that your question?
Quote:So what you are saying is to install a pump and set it so the engine will start, the light may not work?As soon as the engine runs and idles the gun works. Due to the manual it works from 70°BTDC - 5°BTDC. But that is only valid for my model, not for the ebay one.
Quote:My understanding about using a timing light is that the timing reading is delayed to around 14 degrees BTDC, when the port closure is at 24 degrees, correct?No, there is a conversion table for every engine. If you use it my timing light displays the exact °BTDC.
On my OM617A it displayed 18°BTDC (I know it´s a little late but that´s how I bought it....)
Gruß
Volker
(12-11-2012, 01:42 PM)Simpler=Better What if you removed the glow plugs from #2-5 and then cranked with the battery you ought to have enough to make an adjustment
Yeah, that might work. Though I Never tried it.
Gruß
Volker
12-11-2012, 02:53 PM
#29
(12-11-2012, 02:01 PM)Volker407(12-11-2012, 01:32 PM)OM616 My question was aimed at some one installing a pump and trying to static time it. Once it is running, the timing can be fine tuned easily to the individual engine desires using this light.
I thought your question was if the timing gun will work when the engine is turned only by the starter. Was that your question?
Gruß
Volker
Yes, that was my question.
(12-11-2012, 02:01 PM)Volker407(12-11-2012, 01:32 PM)OM616 My question was aimed at some one installing a pump and trying to static time it. Once it is running, the timing can be fine tuned easily to the individual engine desires using this light.
I thought your question was if the timing gun will work when the engine is turned only by the starter. Was that your question?
Gruß
Volker
Yes, that was my question.
12-11-2012, 03:51 PM
#30
These guys make a little tach that uses a transducer off one of the injection lines. It seems like you could use a transducer like that and then use a timing light just like a gas engine correct?
'85 300CD
http://tinytach.com/
These guys make a little tach that uses a transducer off one of the injection lines. It seems like you could use a transducer like that and then use a timing light just like a gas engine correct?
'85 300CD
12-11-2012, 04:46 PM
#31
Try it out, maybe it works.
Gruß
Volker
I don´t know, the problem I see there is that a gas engine timing light uses the magnetic field signal from a ~10.000-20.000Volt ignition pulse and that signal will presumably be a little different from the 5Volt or 12Volt Signal the tinytach probably uses.
Try it out, maybe it works.
Gruß
Volker
12-11-2012, 05:56 PM
#32
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Ebay has a Snap - On, buy # 121034558631. Would this work ?
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-12-2012, 09:03 AM
#33
(12-11-2012, 05:56 PM)Greazzer Ebay has a Snap - On, buy # 121034558631. Would this work ?
The MT480 works with an luminosity sensor which replaces the glow plug to detect the fire in the prechamber. But if you have fire in the prechamber the injection has already started some time ago so I don´t know about how exact this measurement is.
You also need the exact sensor to fit a OM617A glow plug hole and to me it seems the light itself is missing.
So I don´t know if it would work. Maybe ask the seller if he knows.
Gruß
Volker
(12-11-2012, 05:56 PM)Greazzer Ebay has a Snap - On, buy # 121034558631. Would this work ?
The MT480 works with an luminosity sensor which replaces the glow plug to detect the fire in the prechamber. But if you have fire in the prechamber the injection has already started some time ago so I don´t know about how exact this measurement is.
You also need the exact sensor to fit a OM617A glow plug hole and to me it seems the light itself is missing.
So I don´t know if it would work. Maybe ask the seller if he knows.
Gruß
Volker
12-12-2012, 02:09 PM
#34
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
Other than the one you listed here with the picture, what other models would work ? THANKS !
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-12-2012, 03:06 PM
#35
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
12-12-2012, 03:40 PM
#36
(12-12-2012, 03:06 PM)w123love Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
They're all getting worked up over nothing. Next time I'm home I need to make a video pulling the pump, reinstalling, and timing it. It's really not that complicated just go by the books.
And for the love of deer, if it runs before messing with it just mark the flanges.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-12-2012, 03:40 PM #36(12-12-2012, 03:06 PM)w123love Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
They're all getting worked up over nothing. Next time I'm home I need to make a video pulling the pump, reinstalling, and timing it. It's really not that complicated just go by the books.
And for the love of deer, if it runs before messing with it just mark the flanges.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
12-12-2012, 04:53 PM
#37
(12-12-2012, 03:40 PM)Simpler=Better(12-12-2012, 03:06 PM)w123love Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
They're all getting worked up over nothing.
...
And for the love of deer, if it runs before messing with it just mark the flanges.
I dunno, you'd think that would make sense. Mark it, take it out, put it back.
I think that as the pump is turning, like it is a mini motor so it's turning in cycles for each delivery valve to fire.
I've turned the 'crank shaft' of the pump or whatever you'd call it, by hand. And there is definite spots it likes to stop at. I imagine 5 spots really, like position 1,2,3,4,5.
And yet there are how many teeth on that shaft? 50ish?
So lets say all the teeth are lined up IP to timing gear, like tooth 1-1 and 2-2 etc, obviously.
Then you try and pull the IP off the timing gear/block. Ok you tried to do it 'by the book'. Now what happens if you didn't do something exactly 'by the book' and the IP rotates from position 1 to position 2. Well now what?
I'm sure it is easy for some of us and I never had a problem with it till that 1 time that I did. Then it was 12 times before the 50 teeth were all back together right
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(12-12-2012, 03:40 PM)Simpler=Better(12-12-2012, 03:06 PM)w123love Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
They're all getting worked up over nothing.
...
And for the love of deer, if it runs before messing with it just mark the flanges.
I dunno, you'd think that would make sense. Mark it, take it out, put it back.
I think that as the pump is turning, like it is a mini motor so it's turning in cycles for each delivery valve to fire.
I've turned the 'crank shaft' of the pump or whatever you'd call it, by hand. And there is definite spots it likes to stop at. I imagine 5 spots really, like position 1,2,3,4,5.
And yet there are how many teeth on that shaft? 50ish?
So lets say all the teeth are lined up IP to timing gear, like tooth 1-1 and 2-2 etc, obviously.
Then you try and pull the IP off the timing gear/block. Ok you tried to do it 'by the book'. Now what happens if you didn't do something exactly 'by the book' and the IP rotates from position 1 to position 2. Well now what?
I'm sure it is easy for some of us and I never had a problem with it till that 1 time that I did. Then it was 12 times before the 50 teeth were all back together right
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
12-12-2012, 08:58 PM
#38
Something like this would work if you can get it or similar your side of the pond http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUNSON-77089-D...4848668dae its a transducer but also an amplifier so it will work with a strobe. Not particularly cheap though.
12-12-2012, 09:18 PM
#39
(12-12-2012, 03:40 PM)Simpler=Better(12-12-2012, 03:06 PM)w123love Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
They're all getting worked up over nothing. Next time I'm home I need to make a video pulling the pump, reinstalling, and timing it. It's really not that complicated just go by the books.
And for the love of deer, if it runs before messing with it just mark the flanges.
That would amazing if you could go out of your way to do that.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
(12-12-2012, 03:40 PM)Simpler=Better(12-12-2012, 03:06 PM)w123love Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
They're all getting worked up over nothing. Next time I'm home I need to make a video pulling the pump, reinstalling, and timing it. It's really not that complicated just go by the books.
And for the love of deer, if it runs before messing with it just mark the flanges.
That would amazing if you could go out of your way to do that.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
12-13-2012, 09:15 AM
#40
(12-12-2012, 09:18 PM)w123love(12-12-2012, 03:40 PM)Simpler=Better(12-12-2012, 03:06 PM)w123love Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
They're all getting worked up over nothing. Next time I'm home I need to make a video pulling the pump, reinstalling, and timing it. It's really not that complicated just go by the books.
And for the love of deer, if it runs before messing with it just mark the flanges.
That would amazing if you could go out of your way to do that.
Gotta R&R the lady's truck's head, finish installing my truck's electric fan(before I get stuck in traffic and cook it), and blah blah blah but once I've got all that crap taken care of I will. I owe crd valves/timing anyway might as well videotape it.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-13-2012, 09:15 AM #40(12-12-2012, 09:18 PM)w123love(12-12-2012, 03:40 PM)Simpler=Better(12-12-2012, 03:06 PM)w123love Holy butt I am more scared than ever to try this at home.
They're all getting worked up over nothing. Next time I'm home I need to make a video pulling the pump, reinstalling, and timing it. It's really not that complicated just go by the books.
And for the love of deer, if it runs before messing with it just mark the flanges.
That would amazing if you could go out of your way to do that.
Gotta R&R the lady's truck's head, finish installing my truck's electric fan(before I get stuck in traffic and cook it), and blah blah blah but once I've got all that crap taken care of I will. I owe crd valves/timing anyway might as well videotape it.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
12-21-2012, 07:38 AM
#41
Where did you get that timing light? I've searched and searched and can't find one!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Volker,
Where did you get that timing light? I've searched and searched and can't find one!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
12-21-2012, 09:34 AM
#42
I found a bunch of other contraptions on FleaBay ... but was advised they are probably not going to work or work as well.
So, yes, where does one look !
Thanks
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
X 2 !!!
I found a bunch of other contraptions on FleaBay ... but was advised they are probably not going to work or work as well.
So, yes, where does one look !
Thanks
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-21-2012, 11:22 AM
#43
It's been a while since I started looking at it and other things have come up so, it's on hold for me. If I remember it can be bought with three different size clamps, 6mm, .25" and 6.5mm. Anyone know if one of those sizes works on a 602?
I think the part numbers were v765-01, v765-02, and v765-03 for the unit with the different size clamps. Of course you can buy the clamps separately too. Last I looked, each version was under $200 at tooldiscounter.
There's also this one, Gunson 77089
http://www.amazon.com/Gunson-Diesel-Adap...ming+light
I know even less about that one.
This post was last modified: 12-21-2012, 11:35 AM by waz.
***********************************************
1993 300D 2.5L turbo. W124.128 2.5L 602.962
1991 350SD W126.134 Transplanted a 3.0L 603.961 into it.
Have any of you seen the ferret v765? Piezzo timing adapter that clamps on diesel injector line. It says it works with any inductive (spark activated) timing light.
It's been a while since I started looking at it and other things have come up so, it's on hold for me. If I remember it can be bought with three different size clamps, 6mm, .25" and 6.5mm. Anyone know if one of those sizes works on a 602?
I think the part numbers were v765-01, v765-02, and v765-03 for the unit with the different size clamps. Of course you can buy the clamps separately too. Last I looked, each version was under $200 at tooldiscounter.
There's also this one, Gunson 77089
http://www.amazon.com/Gunson-Diesel-Adap...ming+light
I know even less about that one.
***********************************************
1993 300D 2.5L turbo. W124.128 2.5L 602.962
1991 350SD W126.134 Transplanted a 3.0L 603.961 into it.
12-21-2012, 05:01 PM
#44
(12-21-2012, 07:38 AM)MFSuper90 Volker,
Where did you get that timing light? I've searched and searched and can't find one!
he mentioned this older version in post #23:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281031578952?ru=...26_rdc%3D1
this thing looks awesome for fine tuning and knowing EXACTLY where the events are occurring... However, it is totally unnecessary to get it running really well...
If I was home right now, I'd likely do a video myself(been planning on adjusting my IP a bit as well), but Im with the in-laws until after Christmas and then visiting my parents for new years and then right back into school...one quarter left!
It's been awhile since I did mine, but its pretty straightforward...like others have mentioned read the various procedures...I would add that youll likely need a solid day to do it your first time, many removals and reinstalls, etc. (especially if you werent paying attention to all the directions) ...the second time you do it after learning all the ins and outs, you could likely do it in about 30-45 mins...my last removal and replacement took me about 20-30 but i was jamming, not my normal relaxed pace(wanted to finish it up on a Sun night so I wouldnt have to have my wife gimme a ride to work early the next day...
This is a decent write-up on PP with many pictures of the basic procedure I used(As far as adjustment goes) ...I actually used another one that included FSM docs as well as removal/replacement but cannot find it now:
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM615OM616InjPumpTiming
I did not mess with the delivery valves and dont remember wiring the throttle open, instead I looked very closely at the little dimple that the fuel line ferrule seals against for #1 and observed the fuel just BARELY start to fill the bowl and see what the timing is...
If youve never removed the pump, then you likely dont need to do it now, just loosen it up and like they do in the link...replacing the gasket is highly recomended tho... I think the timing numbers are different for various methods, but Im pretty sure I used the ones mentioned in the PP thread above...
here's another good page with some info on R&R:
http://mb.bolinko.org/15/warsztat-mainme...-pump.html
This post was last modified: 12-21-2012, 05:16 PM by SurfRodder.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
12-21-2012, 05:01 PM #44(12-21-2012, 07:38 AM)MFSuper90 Volker,
Where did you get that timing light? I've searched and searched and can't find one!
he mentioned this older version in post #23:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281031578952?ru=...26_rdc%3D1
this thing looks awesome for fine tuning and knowing EXACTLY where the events are occurring... However, it is totally unnecessary to get it running really well...
If I was home right now, I'd likely do a video myself(been planning on adjusting my IP a bit as well), but Im with the in-laws until after Christmas and then visiting my parents for new years and then right back into school...one quarter left!
It's been awhile since I did mine, but its pretty straightforward...like others have mentioned read the various procedures...I would add that youll likely need a solid day to do it your first time, many removals and reinstalls, etc. (especially if you werent paying attention to all the directions) ...the second time you do it after learning all the ins and outs, you could likely do it in about 30-45 mins...my last removal and replacement took me about 20-30 but i was jamming, not my normal relaxed pace(wanted to finish it up on a Sun night so I wouldnt have to have my wife gimme a ride to work early the next day...
This is a decent write-up on PP with many pictures of the basic procedure I used(As far as adjustment goes) ...I actually used another one that included FSM docs as well as removal/replacement but cannot find it now:
http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM615OM616InjPumpTiming
I did not mess with the delivery valves and dont remember wiring the throttle open, instead I looked very closely at the little dimple that the fuel line ferrule seals against for #1 and observed the fuel just BARELY start to fill the bowl and see what the timing is...
If youve never removed the pump, then you likely dont need to do it now, just loosen it up and like they do in the link...replacing the gasket is highly recomended tho... I think the timing numbers are different for various methods, but Im pretty sure I used the ones mentioned in the PP thread above...
here's another good page with some info on R&R:
http://mb.bolinko.org/15/warsztat-mainme...-pump.html
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
12-21-2012, 06:01 PM
#45
(12-21-2012, 07:38 AM)MFSuper90 Volker,
Where did you get that timing light? I've searched and searched and can't find one!
I got my timing light from a professional workshop supplier. In Germany it is not sold in "standard" stores, you have to order it. I would have to ask if it is sold in the US.
The AVL 875 would also work but you can also use the above mentioned
Gunson 77089 or the Ferret V765 adaptor with a standard gasser timing light.
Gruß
Volker
(12-21-2012, 07:38 AM)MFSuper90 Volker,
Where did you get that timing light? I've searched and searched and can't find one!
I got my timing light from a professional workshop supplier. In Germany it is not sold in "standard" stores, you have to order it. I would have to ask if it is sold in the US.
The AVL 875 would also work but you can also use the above mentioned
Gunson 77089 or the Ferret V765 adaptor with a standard gasser timing light.
Gruß
Volker
12-22-2012, 11:02 AM
#46
(12-21-2012, 09:34 AM)Greazzer X 2 !!!
I found a bunch of other contraptions on FleaBay ... but was advised they are probably not going to work or work as well.
So, yes, where does one look !
Thanks
This post was last modified: 12-22-2012, 11:06 AM by Austincarnut.
Austincarnut
12-22-2012, 11:02 AM #46what year is the injection pump you are trying to time? different years have the ability of checking timing with a timing light. Those also have a pump lock that will hold them in place for assembly. send me some pics and I can walk you through it, hell I've done it thousands of times, the first time there might be a learning curve, otherwise its pretty straight forward. you can also use air to check timing in a way more accurate way than the drip method. when I can avoid it I use the timing light tool, that is the two light mb tool
(12-21-2012, 09:34 AM)Greazzer X 2 !!!
I found a bunch of other contraptions on FleaBay ... but was advised they are probably not going to work or work as well.
So, yes, where does one look !
Thanks
12-22-2012, 05:29 PM
#47
I just pulled the drive train today for swapping bodies so my MB is in N.C. for at least a week until I can get to Charlotte.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
OK ... will do !
I just pulled the drive train today for swapping bodies so my MB is in N.C. for at least a week until I can get to Charlotte.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
12-22-2012, 06:14 PM
#48
fordheaded
12-22-2012, 06:14 PM #48Hey Austincarnut, Can you elaborate on the "two light MB tool" please, got me curious. Thanks, Ed
12-23-2012, 08:39 AM
#49
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/atta...tool-b.jpg
This A/B light tool works on I think 84/85 M.Y pumps, when both lights light up the pump is timed. The plug on the driver's side of the pump in the front of the governor housing will allow access for these tools. The smaller plug opening won't work. im sure there is documentation out there to better explain, but most of you guys don't have access to what I use and the free site (the 123 maintenance site) is gone. I will try to dig up some better info...
http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM...V_tool.jpg
(12-22-2012, 06:14 PM)fordheaded Hey Austincarnut, Can you elaborate on the "two light MB tool" please, got me curious. Thanks, Ed
This post was last modified: 12-23-2012, 08:40 AM by Austincarnut.
Austincarnut
12-23-2012, 08:39 AM #49This tool locks the pump for assembly, keeps it from turning while installing, won't work on all MW/M pumps, there are several locks, this is just an example:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/atta...tool-b.jpg
This A/B light tool works on I think 84/85 M.Y pumps, when both lights light up the pump is timed. The plug on the driver's side of the pump in the front of the governor housing will allow access for these tools. The smaller plug opening won't work. im sure there is documentation out there to better explain, but most of you guys don't have access to what I use and the free site (the 123 maintenance site) is gone. I will try to dig up some better info...
http://www.w124performance.com/images/OM...V_tool.jpg
(12-22-2012, 06:14 PM)fordheaded Hey Austincarnut, Can you elaborate on the "two light MB tool" please, got me curious. Thanks, Ed
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