sticky piston?
sticky piston?
07-12-2009, 01:36 AM
#1
I have an OM617 out of a 79 300SD, and I am trying to start it to see if it is any good or not. Turned with a socket, and wasn't seized up.
Now when I have the starter attached and I try to start it, it turns and stops, turns and stops, turns and stops. Figured maybe I might not have enough juice going to it, as I don't actually have a Mercedes battery here...HOWEVER:
When I put the socket on it, I can turn it around but there is one spot that it seems to be sticky. Turns through it, just takes more effort.
Without taking off the head, is there a diagnosis that can be made here? And possibly some treatment for this condition?
Thanks,
Dunl
Hi all,
I have an OM617 out of a 79 300SD, and I am trying to start it to see if it is any good or not. Turned with a socket, and wasn't seized up.
Now when I have the starter attached and I try to start it, it turns and stops, turns and stops, turns and stops. Figured maybe I might not have enough juice going to it, as I don't actually have a Mercedes battery here...HOWEVER:
When I put the socket on it, I can turn it around but there is one spot that it seems to be sticky. Turns through it, just takes more effort.
Without taking off the head, is there a diagnosis that can be made here? And possibly some treatment for this condition?
Thanks,
Dunl
07-12-2009, 02:16 AM
#2
This post was last modified: 07-12-2009, 02:16 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
07-12-2009, 02:16 AM
#2
Take off the valve cover and inspect the chain, cam and valve springs.
07-12-2009, 12:27 PM
#3
(07-12-2009, 02:16 AM)ForcedInduction Take off the valve cover and inspect the chain, cam and valve springs.
ForcedInduction: Good to "see" you again....nice to find a forum to get your expertise and input.
I have the valve cover off, but I can't see anything. It's the first time I've actually looked at valves though (the first doesn't count, as that time the inside was coated with coolant, and after and extremely low compression test - 82, 90, that sort of thing - I sold it off for $200 profit). Everything looks fine. The chain looks good, but it seems to be sticky every revolution I go, so unless the chain has problems at an even distance along the chain I'm thinking it's probably not the chain.
I'm going to go shoot some pics for you of different angles of the top, and different angles throughout the revolution. Hopefully you can (can't?) find the issue from that.
Thanks,
Dunl
(07-12-2009, 02:16 AM)ForcedInduction Take off the valve cover and inspect the chain, cam and valve springs.
ForcedInduction: Good to "see" you again....nice to find a forum to get your expertise and input.
I have the valve cover off, but I can't see anything. It's the first time I've actually looked at valves though (the first doesn't count, as that time the inside was coated with coolant, and after and extremely low compression test - 82, 90, that sort of thing - I sold it off for $200 profit). Everything looks fine. The chain looks good, but it seems to be sticky every revolution I go, so unless the chain has problems at an even distance along the chain I'm thinking it's probably not the chain.
I'm going to go shoot some pics for you of different angles of the top, and different angles throughout the revolution. Hopefully you can (can't?) find the issue from that.
Thanks,
Dunl
07-12-2009, 12:55 PM
#4
GREASY_BEAST
07-12-2009, 12:55 PM #4How many Cold Cranking Amps does the battery have? The "stickiness" is good, that means your engine has compression.
07-12-2009, 12:56 PM
#5
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cc01bcb73300000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cdf26e567c00000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cd3408d74900000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cdb64a567a00000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cd34d6d79700000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cc2404f70100000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7ccbeb276ca00000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cdb14d16e600000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7ccaec1f78100000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cca31036fe00000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
sticky
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cc6228763e00000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
free
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cdc3c0165200000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
sticky
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cc03bfb73100000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
free
![[Image: ry%3D400]](http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d933b3127ccec7cc84caf79f00000040O08Tbt3LZoD28-BA/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
(07-12-2009, 12:55 PM)GREASY_BEAST How many Cold Cranking Amps does the battery have? The "stickiness" is good, that means your engine has compression.
Well, let's see.....I tried a red top Optima from my jeep, figuring it would spin it around the whole way....guess not. Then I tried boosting it with the wife's Jetta TDI while revving it...still didn't spin it. Those were the two lazy ways until I got scared, and then stupidly I remembered that I have a Dodge Cummins 3500 1 ton out front....
I'm going to check the valves now while the cover is off.
Edit: Well, the Dodge has two batteries, but both are only 750 CCA.
This post was last modified: 07-12-2009, 04:14 PM by dunl.
sticky
free
sticky
free
(07-12-2009, 12:55 PM)GREASY_BEAST How many Cold Cranking Amps does the battery have? The "stickiness" is good, that means your engine has compression.
Well, let's see.....I tried a red top Optima from my jeep, figuring it would spin it around the whole way....guess not. Then I tried boosting it with the wife's Jetta TDI while revving it...still didn't spin it. Those were the two lazy ways until I got scared, and then stupidly I remembered that I have a Dodge Cummins 3500 1 ton out front....
I'm going to check the valves now while the cover is off.
Edit: Well, the Dodge has two batteries, but both are only 750 CCA.
07-12-2009, 02:27 PM
#6
Okay, finished now....the last three were right in spec.
Just waiting for the next piece of advice. Here's yesterday's thread at mercedesshop"
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/show...p?t=256497
This post was last modified: 07-12-2009, 02:49 PM by dunl.
On 5th valve now, all very tight.....as ForcedInduction has probably already guessed.
Okay, finished now....the last three were right in spec.
Just waiting for the next piece of advice. Here's yesterday's thread at mercedesshop"
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/show...p?t=256497
07-12-2009, 03:30 PM
#7
BTW, that banjo and the one on the Alda were crystal clean.
This post was last modified: 07-12-2009, 04:13 PM by dunl.
I just broke the banjo bolt on the back of the engine. The airline fitting part is fine, but the bolt broke off...luckily I got the rest of it out with some vicegrips as it broke without much tightening effort whatsoever. Is there another one on this engine somewhere that isn't needed that I could borrow from.
BTW, that banjo and the one on the Alda were crystal clean.
07-12-2009, 04:33 PM
#8
The batteries I use in my cars are rated 1000cca.
(07-12-2009, 03:30 PM)dunl BTW, that banjo and the one on the Alda were crystal clean.
Without an EGR, the blowby oil doesn't have any soot to mix with and make sludge. The only other fittings I can think of off hand are on the ALDA and the IP oil supply. The block-head coolant bleed tube (above the water pump) may use the same size.
This post was last modified: 07-12-2009, 04:36 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
07-12-2009, 04:33 PM
#8
That cam looks good. Line up the mark on the first tower with the cam and see how far off it is from 0 degrees at the crank. GREASY_BEAST is right, it may just be good 'ol compression. Find some beefy jumper cables and get a boost from your dodge.
The batteries I use in my cars are rated 1000cca.
(07-12-2009, 03:30 PM)dunl BTW, that banjo and the one on the Alda were crystal clean.
Without an EGR, the blowby oil doesn't have any soot to mix with and make sludge. The only other fittings I can think of off hand are on the ALDA and the IP oil supply. The block-head coolant bleed tube (above the water pump) may use the same size.
07-12-2009, 04:40 PM
#9
(07-12-2009, 04:33 PM)ForcedInduction That cam looks good. Line up the mark on the first tower with the cam and see how far off it is from 0 degrees at the crank.
Huh? I hate to say it, but you need to treat me like a 2 year old. While I managed to do a valve adjustment correctly for the first time this morning in about 1hr start to finish (including cleaning the cover and putting it back on), everything I do I learn off the internet. I wrench by myself, with no experience, just an attitude to learn.
How do I find 0 degrees at the crank? Is there a timing mark or something?
Quote:GREASY_BEAST is right, it may just be good 'ol compression. Find some beefy jumper cables and get a boost from your dodge.
Unfortunately, the Dodge is awaiting a serpentine belt. I should be working on that instead, but....old loves are hard to drop.
Quote:The batteries I use in my cars are rated 1000cca.
I'll need to keep that in mind.
Quote:Without an EGR, the blowby oil doesn't have any soot to mix with and make sludge. The only other fittings I can think of off hand are on the ALDA and the IP oil supply.
Hmmm....going to cause issues to run it today without that?
(07-12-2009, 04:33 PM)ForcedInduction That cam looks good. Line up the mark on the first tower with the cam and see how far off it is from 0 degrees at the crank.
Huh? I hate to say it, but you need to treat me like a 2 year old. While I managed to do a valve adjustment correctly for the first time this morning in about 1hr start to finish (including cleaning the cover and putting it back on), everything I do I learn off the internet. I wrench by myself, with no experience, just an attitude to learn.
How do I find 0 degrees at the crank? Is there a timing mark or something?
Quote:GREASY_BEAST is right, it may just be good 'ol compression. Find some beefy jumper cables and get a boost from your dodge.
Unfortunately, the Dodge is awaiting a serpentine belt. I should be working on that instead, but....old loves are hard to drop.
Quote:The batteries I use in my cars are rated 1000cca.
I'll need to keep that in mind.
Quote:Without an EGR, the blowby oil doesn't have any soot to mix with and make sludge. The only other fittings I can think of off hand are on the ALDA and the IP oil supply.
Hmmm....going to cause issues to run it today without that?
07-12-2009, 04:51 PM
#10
(07-12-2009, 04:40 PM)dunl Huh? I hate to say it, but you need to treat me like a 2 year old.Is that good or bad? I try to keep my points simple and to the point, sometimes it just comes out that way.
Quote:How do I find 0 degrees at the crank? Is there a timing mark or something?Yes. There is a "0l0" and marks up to 40 degrees before and after TDC.
Quote:Hmmm....going to cause issues to run it today without that?I wouldn't worry about the ALDA fitting until you get the engine running and ready to drive. It doesn't affect anything on the engine at start or idle.
ForcedInduction
07-12-2009, 04:51 PM
#10
(07-12-2009, 04:40 PM)dunl Huh? I hate to say it, but you need to treat me like a 2 year old.Is that good or bad? I try to keep my points simple and to the point, sometimes it just comes out that way.
Quote:How do I find 0 degrees at the crank? Is there a timing mark or something?Yes. There is a "0l0" and marks up to 40 degrees before and after TDC.
Quote:Hmmm....going to cause issues to run it today without that?I wouldn't worry about the ALDA fitting until you get the engine running and ready to drive. It doesn't affect anything on the engine at start or idle.
07-12-2009, 04:55 PM
#11
(07-12-2009, 04:51 PM)ForcedInduction Is that good or bad? I try to keep my points simple and to the point, sometimes it just comes out that way.
Not your issue, just mine. I'm self-taught, but as a result, I come off sounding like I know more than I actually do....so.......
Quote:Yes. There is a "0l0" and marks up to 40 degrees before and after TDC.
...that's exactly what I need.
What if it is off?Quote:I wouldn't worry about the ALDA fitting until you get the engine running and ready to drive. It doesn't affect anything on the engine at start or idle.
Perfect. Let's hope I can get it going.
(07-12-2009, 04:51 PM)ForcedInduction Is that good or bad? I try to keep my points simple and to the point, sometimes it just comes out that way.
Not your issue, just mine. I'm self-taught, but as a result, I come off sounding like I know more than I actually do....so.......
Quote:Yes. There is a "0l0" and marks up to 40 degrees before and after TDC.
...that's exactly what I need.
What if it is off?Quote:I wouldn't worry about the ALDA fitting until you get the engine running and ready to drive. It doesn't affect anything on the engine at start or idle.
Perfect. Let's hope I can get it going.
07-12-2009, 04:59 PM
#12
(07-12-2009, 04:55 PM)dunl What if it is off?
It probably will be from wear. Anything between 0-10* ATDC is normal.
ForcedInduction
07-12-2009, 04:59 PM
#12
(07-12-2009, 04:55 PM)dunl What if it is off?
It probably will be from wear. Anything between 0-10* ATDC is normal.
07-12-2009, 11:06 PM
#13
(07-12-2009, 04:59 PM)ForcedInduction(07-12-2009, 04:55 PM)dunl What if it is off?
It probably will be from wear. Anything between 0-10* ATDC is normal.
Well, I never did get around to checking this. I spent the afternoon trying to boost it with the sickly gassers I have around here, and the 750 CCA battery from the Dodge 3500. My red top optima from my 48 Willys Jeep almost got it spinning fast enough....but no go.
Thanks for the help.....I need to get that serpentine belt back on the dodge, and then boost the sucker. Too bad too...I had some smoke coming out the exhaust and everything....just needed a little more juice.
(07-12-2009, 04:59 PM)ForcedInduction(07-12-2009, 04:55 PM)dunl What if it is off?
It probably will be from wear. Anything between 0-10* ATDC is normal.
Well, I never did get around to checking this. I spent the afternoon trying to boost it with the sickly gassers I have around here, and the 750 CCA battery from the Dodge 3500. My red top optima from my 48 Willys Jeep almost got it spinning fast enough....but no go.
Thanks for the help.....I need to get that serpentine belt back on the dodge, and then boost the sucker. Too bad too...I had some smoke coming out the exhaust and everything....just needed a little more juice.
07-13-2009, 12:04 PM
#14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m00MBqnxa...43&index=0
Okay, I'm being told that I can't run this without the counterweight attached on the end. So over at mercedesshop I posted this in reply (my inspiration for doing this in the first place):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m00MBqnxa...43&index=0
07-13-2009, 05:01 PM
#15
(07-13-2009, 12:04 PM)dunl Okay, I'm being told that I can't run this without the counterweight attached on the end.
Which one? The balancer on the front or weight on the flywheel? It should run well enough to test-idle without either one.
ForcedInduction
07-13-2009, 05:01 PM
#15
(07-13-2009, 12:04 PM)dunl Okay, I'm being told that I can't run this without the counterweight attached on the end.
Which one? The balancer on the front or weight on the flywheel? It should run well enough to test-idle without either one.
07-13-2009, 05:59 PM
#16
(07-13-2009, 05:01 PM)ForcedInduction(07-13-2009, 12:04 PM)dunl Okay, I'm being told that I can't run this without the counterweight attached on the end.
Which one? The balancer on the front or weight on the flywheel? It should run well enough to test-idle without either one.
The flywheel....and you're correct, as that video shows it can be done. I just bought a serpentine for the Dodge, so hopefully I can get this thing boosted and running. I'll get a video if it ever happens.
(07-13-2009, 05:01 PM)ForcedInduction(07-13-2009, 12:04 PM)dunl Okay, I'm being told that I can't run this without the counterweight attached on the end.
Which one? The balancer on the front or weight on the flywheel? It should run well enough to test-idle without either one.
The flywheel....and you're correct, as that video shows it can be done. I just bought a serpentine for the Dodge, so hopefully I can get this thing boosted and running. I'll get a video if it ever happens.
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