ip lines steel braided?
ip lines steel braided?
Is it ever done? Braided from IP to injectors. Just crossed my mind.
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Can be done, I want to say I've seen it on someone's fancy pants build...
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Do you mean to cover the metal lines with braided covering. or make the line flexible? I would think a braided ss line would expand and contract under the pressure of the injection
Flexible... not a wrap.
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
I misread...no way you'd want that, they would change volume and disturb delivery. You want those lines as stiff as possible, and all equal length
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Hmm. OK makes sense. Something about those lines annoys me guess I'll live.
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
If you don't like their looks take the clamping block off, round the edges into pretty ovals, reinstall. Then paint the assembly or get them chromed.
EDIT:
Gut some spark plug boots and wires, use them to cover the injectors & lines. That ought to confuse some people
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Lol. You guys my god. I think I'll weave a paracord design. That's makes everything hardcore. I'm a rough and tough dude.
On a function and design point..I don't know anything about timing the IP other than the 5 minutes or so I read yesterday. Does their rigidity affect the ease in adjusting the timing? If thats a dumb ass ques. on its cool I need to read a lot more on this topic. If its a flat out no, I have no idea of what I'm talking about anyway. If you feel the need to explain maybe we can get together and while I teach you some of my macreme skills you can tell me.
The rigidity and equal lengths should be important. It is high pressure in them lines. Like near 2000psi, right?
Always we are trying to balance the pressures, spray patterns and timing of every cylinder.
Another thought on awesome lines. Remember those twisty straws with all the loops in them?
I read somewhere though that some dude had to bend them a bit after adjusting the timing. Is that true or was my understanding impaired at that moment? I believe I was a few 6-10 beers deep while reading.
I have bent them by hand just a touch to adjust angles and such. Not much different than any other type of plumbing with compression fittings.
And now just asking for the sake of asking. What about custom designed lines? Still steel but bent in a personally desired design? Line length doesn't matter as long as each line is equal in length to the others?
One could get wild with the design. I wouldn't.
I would think that is mostly correct. The way they are designed stock seems as if they flow mainly uphill till they turn at the injector. So any air bubbles would tend to flow that direction. Probably air would get evacuated no mater the design. But that could be an issue with any loop de loops.
(02-11-2013, 10:10 PM)lpumb3 while your on the subject of Ij Lines , how about copper ? ive been considering a rerun of my fuel lines . i would like to use copper/brass for the entire fuel sys .
(02-11-2013, 10:10 PM)lpumb3 while your on the subject of Ij Lines , how about copper ? ive been considering a rerun of my fuel lines . i would like to use copper/brass for the entire fuel sys .
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
If you want the fancy look use steel and have them copper coated. Any chrome shop should be able to do this
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
i did not realize the veggie would react , could i treat it with power service or some thing ?
im not planing veggie , but though it would be a nice option down the road .
not so much for the fancy look , just easier to bend and corrosion resistance.i need to do my brake lines again at least. its a bonus that it gets old-timey lookin, or keep shiny.
copper plating crossed my mind , i cant seem to find a "coating " company around here that will touch anything that came off a vehicle. all kinds of fancy options too .
as far as painting isnt it pretty normal to just powder coat over everything on big diesels? on that point once you crack a line it flakes.
(02-13-2013, 12:33 PM)lpumb3 i did not realize the veggie would react, could i treat it with power service or some thing ?...
(02-13-2013, 12:33 PM)lpumb3 i did not realize the veggie would react, could i treat it with power service or some thing ?...
(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
(02-14-2013, 03:04 AM)JustPassinThruI have personally ,never run veggie. So i eould never have known.(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
(02-14-2013, 03:04 AM)JustPassinThruI have personally ,never run veggie. So i eould never have known.(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
(02-14-2013, 03:04 AM)JustPassinThru(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I was thinking about this green stuff. Does penut oil have the same effects? Otto diesel designed his engine with penut oil. I would assume back then brass and Copper were his only options for fuel lines.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
(02-14-2013, 03:04 AM)JustPassinThru(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I was thinking about this green stuff. Does penut oil have the same effects? Otto diesel designed his engine with penut oil. I would assume back then brass and Copper were his only options for fuel lines.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
AFAIK it's only a problem with waste oil. The fresh stuff shouldn't be too much of an issue-but who runs $8/gallon fresh oil?
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
It is true that all injection lines have to be the same length, or it will mess timing all up. You could get custom made SS lines, they would be real shiny and pretty
But Injection lines aren't very cheap.
And the shorter the injection line, the better. But they absolutely have to be the same length.
And for performance you could use a injection line with a bigger ID, but you better be pushing some major fuel befor you do that :p
(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(02-21-2013, 09:03 AM)Simpler=Better(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
When it comes to build time I'm going all out with 1/2" fuel lines. I will never ever have a line related fuel restriction.
(02-21-2013, 09:03 AM)Simpler=Better(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
When it comes to build time I'm going all out with 1/2" fuel lines. I will never ever have a line related fuel restriction.
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Nah, just pressurize the fuel tank and it will come shooting out
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
When I was planning on doing my injector rehab on the 617, I was going to do a pop test with the hard line and one with a stainless braid in place to see if there was any discernable differences between each setup...more of a "feel" than anything empirical tho... I was going to get a couple of -3 AN 90* fittings TIG welded to a spare set of tube connectors to make the joint on each end. You can buy a set of 3000 psi tested brake lines from Earl's in many lenghts, starting at 8" and they would be machine cut and assembled and very close tolereances in length, so timing should not be an issue.
Depending on the results of the pop test, I think I would likely make a full set of flex lines at some point, but only use it for tuning at the dyno, etc... once you get dialed in for max power, mark the pump and block (for future reference in case it slips, etc) and then reinstall hard lines...
with some flex lines you could likely even tune it while it was running, like an old distributor based gasser. That would be pretty awesome...
at any rate, I will definitely end up figuring out a way to make AN hoses work for the injector return lines and say goodbye to those pesky rubber lines forever.
The length of the lines would effectively change timing
(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
Well there all equal length for a reason
The amount of expansion in the line could also make a difference with timing also! More line more expansion before injection different timing
(02-22-2013, 03:24 PM)sassparilla_kid I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
(02-22-2013, 03:24 PM)sassparilla_kid I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
(02-22-2013, 03:59 PM)Volker407(02-22-2013, 03:24 PM)sassparilla_kid I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
Diesel is not compressible like air, but to make a simple example:
Walk 5 steps and then walk 10 steps. What of both took you longer?
The fuel also has to make its way through the injection line.
Gruß
Volker
(02-22-2013, 03:59 PM)Volker407(02-22-2013, 03:24 PM)sassparilla_kid I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
Diesel is not compressible like air, but to make a simple example:
Walk 5 steps and then walk 10 steps. What of both took you longer?
The fuel also has to make its way through the injection line.
Gruß
Volker
yeah, if I ended up making them, I would have made them all equal and by trimming the amount of hard line remaining from the donor, you could even make each line a "standard" siza as well as the same length as stock...wouldnt be too hard IMO... I think the main thing would be to keep the lines consistent between cylinders, as a very minor change in length (less than .5mm or so) probably wouldnt change timing to a great degree, at least as fast as these things turn...
If it seemed to run well on the flex lines, I would even have considered leaving them on there as a long term test... then once timing is dialed in via your favorite method, it would be good...as long as there werent any differences between cylinders.
I think what saparilla_kid was getting at is thinking about the line as being full of fuel...now picture one molecule of fuel entering the pipe from the delivery valve, pushing one out at the end...now expand to larger view...it seems like it would take a major difference in line length to have noticeable effect on timing,
The only thing that would concern me would be if the line has more expansion before the injection! going from 0-2000 psi with every injection! Even the steel line's have a little expatiation and contraction. if it expands more or less it would change the injection timing!
(02-26-2013, 07:49 PM)SurfRodder yeah, if I ended up making them, I would have made them all equal and by trimming the amount of hard line remaining from the donor, you could even make each line a "standard" siza as well as the same length as stock...wouldnt be too hard IMO... I think the main thing would be to keep the lines consistent between cylinders, as a very minor change in length (less than .5mm or so) probably wouldnt change timing to a great degree, at least as fast as these things turn...
If it seemed to run well on the flex lines, I would even have considered leaving them on there as a long term test... then once timing is dialed in via your favorite method, it would be good...as long as there werent any differences between cylinders.
I think what saparilla_kid was getting at is thinking about the line as being full of fuel...now picture one molecule of fuel entering the pipe from the delivery valve, pushing one out at the end...now expand to larger view...it seems like it would take a major difference in line length to have noticeable effect on timing,
(02-26-2013, 07:49 PM)SurfRodder yeah, if I ended up making them, I would have made them all equal and by trimming the amount of hard line remaining from the donor, you could even make each line a "standard" siza as well as the same length as stock...wouldnt be too hard IMO... I think the main thing would be to keep the lines consistent between cylinders, as a very minor change in length (less than .5mm or so) probably wouldnt change timing to a great degree, at least as fast as these things turn...
If it seemed to run well on the flex lines, I would even have considered leaving them on there as a long term test... then once timing is dialed in via your favorite method, it would be good...as long as there werent any differences between cylinders.
I think what saparilla_kid was getting at is thinking about the line as being full of fuel...now picture one molecule of fuel entering the pipe from the delivery valve, pushing one out at the end...now expand to larger view...it seems like it would take a major difference in line length to have noticeable effect on timing,
(02-20-2013, 10:16 PM)MFSuper90 It is true that all injection lines have to be the same length, or it will mess timing all up. You could get custom made SS lines, they would be real shiny and pretty
But Injection lines aren't very cheap.
And the shorter the injection line, the better. But they absolutely have to be the same length.
And for performance you could use a injection line with a bigger ID, but you better be pushing some major fuel befor you do that :p
(02-20-2013, 10:16 PM)MFSuper90 It is true that all injection lines have to be the same length, or it will mess timing all up. You could get custom made SS lines, they would be real shiny and pretty
But Injection lines aren't very cheap.
And the shorter the injection line, the better. But they absolutely have to be the same length.
And for performance you could use a injection line with a bigger ID, but you better be pushing some major fuel befor you do that :p
Using hydraulic theory, if you double the size of the line I.D., you cut your pressure in half. That means your IP will have to double it's output pressure to keep the injectors operational. I could be wrong, but .....
(02-28-2013, 05:25 PM)fordheaded Using hydraulic theory, if you double the size of the line I.D., you cut your pressure in half. That means your IP will have to double it's output pressure to keep the injectors operational. I could be wrong, but .....
(02-28-2013, 05:25 PM)fordheaded Using hydraulic theory, if you double the size of the line I.D., you cut your pressure in half. That means your IP will have to double it's output pressure to keep the injectors operational. I could be wrong, but .....
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
You can shop around for other lines from this era, the connector seems to be standardized. I used a random allis chalmers injector line (60s?70s?) to make my drip tube.
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(02-28-2013, 03:51 PM)mantahead so whats the story with bigger diameter injector lines for performance, will this not reduce pressure but improve flow?
(02-28-2013, 03:51 PM)mantahead so whats the story with bigger diameter injector lines for performance, will this not reduce pressure but improve flow?