first suspension upgrade to 240D....
first suspension upgrade to 240D....
however when i take corners quickly the sway is such that i'm afraid i'm going to roll the car over. i don't even think i've three-wheeled it yet but it sure feels that way. what do you all think i should do to minimize this issue - drive slower (hah), front antisway bar, performance shocks in front or what?
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
hi folks, i had the 240D's steering and alignment checked out after the engine swap was done, so my car steers well and goes in a straight line. i am reasonably happy with the stock height after the 617 went in, might cut 1/2 spring later on, but for now i think it's fine.
however when i take corners quickly the sway is such that i'm afraid i'm going to roll the car over. i don't even think i've three-wheeled it yet but it sure feels that way. what do you all think i should do to minimize this issue - drive slower (hah), front antisway bar, performance shocks in front or what?
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
03-06-2013, 01:20 PM #2Check the linkage on the front swaybar. I used to take my 300D around corners like a madman and it stayed pretty grounded to the ground
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
03-06-2013, 05:51 PM #3You can upgrade to a wagon front sway bar it's a bit beefier but a P.I.T.A to install. or put Bilstine HD shocks on it I had them on my 240d and it handled lake a beast
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
03-06-2013, 07:49 PM #4I have Bilstien HD shocks right now and they are pretty sweet, I'm also gonna upgrade the front swaybar as soon as I find some free time
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
03-07-2013, 12:02 AM #5Easiest thing to do is to get rid of the softer 240d front springs and replace them with stiffer 300d springs. Then do the wagon sway bar swap.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
(03-07-2013, 12:02 AM)DeliveryValve Easiest thing to do is to get rid of the softer 240d front springs and replace them with stiffer 300d springs. Then do the wagon sway bar swap.
This. You can cut them shorter to regain your lowered ride height. Lower the rear too. A low front with a higher rear screws up your roll axis and will contribute to lifting a rear wheel.
raysorenson
03-07-2013, 07:54 AM #6(03-07-2013, 12:02 AM)DeliveryValve Easiest thing to do is to get rid of the softer 240d front springs and replace them with stiffer 300d springs. Then do the wagon sway bar swap.
This. You can cut them shorter to regain your lowered ride height. Lower the rear too. A low front with a higher rear screws up your roll axis and will contribute to lifting a rear wheel.
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
thanks folks. this sounds like a good plan. if i'm bothering to get the 300D springs then i'll get all four and trim them for a slightly lower ride. if i'm bothering to get at the swaybar bushings then i should swap in the wagon bar at the same time. it sounds like most of the work is in accessing the bar.
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
![[Image: SAM_1502.JPG]](http://www.lithic.org/tmp/SAM_1502.JPG)
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
as requested... my stance. 617.952 + slopeback manual on stock 240D springs. (the street's not flat.) i'm more interested in lowering my center of gravity than i am in lowriding per se, but a touch more might be justified.
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
Judging for your picture and going with the firmer of the 240d spring (123 321 27 04) which I'm guessing the 300d 123 321 41 04 spring is about 23% firmer, I would assume cutting at least a coil would give you the same ride height or a bit higher with a 1 burl pad.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
03-09-2013, 02:06 AM #9There are two optional 240d springs. Pn# 123 321 39 04 - 14.7mm wire diameter, spring travel 25 and length 460, and pn#123 321 27 04 - 15 diameter and spring travel 23.3 and length 463. The 300d spring pn#123 321 41 04- 15.8 diameter and spring travel 18.4 and length 450.
Judging for your picture and going with the firmer of the 240d spring (123 321 27 04) which I'm guessing the 300d 123 321 41 04 spring is about 23% firmer, I would assume cutting at least a coil would give you the same ride height or a bit higher with a 1 burl pad.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
is the whole of spring travel really just 20ish mm?
do the desired nub/burl pads get bought anew with a spring swap or are they a junkyard item?
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
hmmm... good info.
is the whole of spring travel really just 20ish mm?
do the desired nub/burl pads get bought anew with a spring swap or are they a junkyard item?
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
lgreeley83
03-09-2013, 02:43 AM #11Love the orange.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
(03-09-2013, 02:42 AM)bricktron ....
is the whole of spring travel really just 20ish mm?
do the desired nub/burl pads get bought anew with a spring swap or are they a junkyard item?
The actual spec is per 1,000Nm, the deflection is 20ish mm.
You can buy the spring pads new or get them used if they are in good shape. There few sizes to choose from and I believe they go up to four burls.
.
(03-09-2013, 02:43 AM)lgreeley83 Love the orange.
Agreed!
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
03-09-2013, 10:04 AM #12(03-09-2013, 02:42 AM)bricktron ....
is the whole of spring travel really just 20ish mm?
do the desired nub/burl pads get bought anew with a spring swap or are they a junkyard item?
The actual spec is per 1,000Nm, the deflection is 20ish mm.
You can buy the spring pads new or get them used if they are in good shape. There few sizes to choose from and I believe they go up to four burls.
.
(03-09-2013, 02:43 AM)lgreeley83 Love the orange.
Agreed!
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
PS the color is englischrot 504... the whole reason i bought this junker!
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
cool. anyone know the conversion factor, how many burls = the height of 1 spring coil?
PS the color is englischrot 504... the whole reason i bought this junker!
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
raysorenson
03-10-2013, 07:52 AM #14The change in ride height after cutting a coil has many variables. Odds are it would take more burls than you can get to make up for a missing coil. I recommend against cutting an entire coil off at once.
(03-10-2013, 12:03 AM)bricktron cool. anyone know the conversion factor, how many burls = the height of 1 spring coil?It's all different with the deflection rate. Here are the specs.
Shim, front spring 8 MM thick, one burls
MB# 123 321 13 84
Shim, front spring 13 MM thick, two burls
MB# 123 321 14 84
Shim, front spring 18 MM thick, three burls
MB# 123 321 15 84
Shim, front spring 23 MM thick, four burls
MB# 123 321 16 84
++++++++++++++++
Shim, REAR spring 9.5 MM thick, one burls
MB# 115 325 22 44
Shim, REAR spring 14 MM thick, one burls
MB# 115 325 23 44
Shim, REAR spring 19 MM thick, one burls
MB# 115 325 24 44
(03-10-2013, 07:52 AM)raysorenson The change in ride height after cutting a coil has many variables. Odds are it would take more burls than you can get to make up for a missing coil. I recommend against cutting an entire coil off at once.
I estimate one coil based off of my vehicle with cut springs and another 300d with an aluminum manual trans and 240 d springs that I've seen in person.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
03-14-2013, 02:30 AM #15(03-10-2013, 12:03 AM)bricktron cool. anyone know the conversion factor, how many burls = the height of 1 spring coil?It's all different with the deflection rate. Here are the specs.
Shim, front spring 8 MM thick, one burls
MB# 123 321 13 84
Shim, front spring 13 MM thick, two burls
MB# 123 321 14 84
Shim, front spring 18 MM thick, three burls
MB# 123 321 15 84
Shim, front spring 23 MM thick, four burls
MB# 123 321 16 84
++++++++++++++++
Shim, REAR spring 9.5 MM thick, one burls
MB# 115 325 22 44
Shim, REAR spring 14 MM thick, one burls
MB# 115 325 23 44
Shim, REAR spring 19 MM thick, one burls
MB# 115 325 24 44
(03-10-2013, 07:52 AM)raysorenson The change in ride height after cutting a coil has many variables. Odds are it would take more burls than you can get to make up for a missing coil. I recommend against cutting an entire coil off at once.
I estimate one coil based off of my vehicle with cut springs and another 300d with an aluminum manual trans and 240 d springs that I've seen in person.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
03-14-2013, 09:09 AM #16They still sell the side trim new
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
03-14-2013, 10:31 AM #17pennies & JB weld form the inside will fill in the trim holes nicely...
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
03-14-2013, 05:29 PM #18I tried that but they started falling out after I got the car painted it sucked. If I do it again I'm welding them closed
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
did a little reading on the antisway bar.... FWIW WP sez the stiffness of a bar is proportional to the fourth exponent of its radius and if the two bars are 24 and 25mm in diameter then the wagon bar gives you a ((25/2)^4)/((24/2)^4) = 1.177 or an 18% increase in stiffness. any comment on what this means from those who have driven with both?
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
i have the beltline trim stashed away, got to get a little bodywork done before it goes back on....
did a little reading on the antisway bar.... FWIW WP sez the stiffness of a bar is proportional to the fourth exponent of its radius and if the two bars are 24 and 25mm in diameter then the wagon bar gives you a ((25/2)^4)/((24/2)^4) = 1.177 or an 18% increase in stiffness. any comment on what this means from those who have driven with both?
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
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