T3 / GT2256V Adapter
T3 / GT2256V Adapter
05-02-2009, 10:27 PM
#1
This post was last modified: 05-02-2009, 11:00 PM by 300SD81.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
Made up this adapter plate for my GT2256V, not sure how its going to work yet. Is there any way to have bolt going into the turbo where its in the middle of the plate? Or am I going to have to drill out the threads in the turbo and use a stud? The other 2 holes on the turbo and 2 on the T3 manifold have clearance issues too. Any suggestions would be great.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
05-02-2009, 11:55 PM
#2
This post was last modified: 05-02-2009, 11:56 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
05-02-2009, 11:55 PM
#2
The bottom two I used studs and a bolt on the top. I also set the turbo about 1/2" higher than in your picture to allow clearance for the bolt to turn.
05-03-2009, 06:56 PM
#3
ForcedInduction
05-03-2009, 06:56 PM
#3
Here is my first prototype. I made this 1/4" version to be sure the holes would line up. The final version was made with 3/8" steel plate.
05-04-2009, 03:03 AM
#4
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
How well does the air hole on the turbo/manifold line up on yours?
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
05-04-2009, 03:14 AM
#5
This is how I got it running. I cut a lip into the manifold and it never gave me a problem. I just found better alternatives.
ForcedInduction
05-04-2009, 03:14 AM
#5
On the compressor side?
This is how I got it running. I cut a lip into the manifold and it never gave me a problem. I just found better alternatives.
05-04-2009, 10:58 AM
#6
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
On the turbine, I placed mine so that the turbine inlet and the manifold outlet were lined up with eachother. I'm modifying it to match yours and will have to check it again when I have access to a spare manifold.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
05-04-2009, 07:16 PM
#7
ForcedInduction
05-04-2009, 07:16 PM
#7
It flows fine. I tried to match both ports as best as possible to maximize flow.
07-17-2009, 10:52 AM
#10
(07-17-2009, 10:09 AM)Motorhead Is this a good size turbo for the 617 or is there a need for a bigger turbo as the I/P can handle it?
I'll leave FI or winmutt could tell you more, but this is the perfect turbo for a well tuned 617 with stock elements IP. If your going beyond stock elements, this turbo will be too small.
BTW - I have three of these buggers, if interested I am open for trading stuff.
This post was last modified: 07-17-2009, 10:53 AM by DeliveryValve.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
07-17-2009, 10:52 AM #10(07-17-2009, 10:09 AM)Motorhead Is this a good size turbo for the 617 or is there a need for a bigger turbo as the I/P can handle it?
I'll leave FI or winmutt could tell you more, but this is the perfect turbo for a well tuned 617 with stock elements IP. If your going beyond stock elements, this turbo will be too small.
BTW - I have three of these buggers, if interested I am open for trading stuff.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
07-17-2009, 01:23 PM
#11
Are yours mechanical or electrical vane control. Mine is electronic and am trying to find out what makes it tick.
Even with larger elements this is not woefully undersized. The GT2*59V are so much harder and expensive to find.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
You have three? Wish you had mentioned that last month before I got one off EBay heheheh
Are yours mechanical or electrical vane control. Mine is electronic and am trying to find out what makes it tick.
Even with larger elements this is not woefully undersized. The GT2*59V are so much harder and expensive to find.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
07-17-2009, 01:33 PM
#12
If you get anywhere with figuring out how to use the existing circuit board in the electronic actuator, please let me know. I spent about a week researching the chips in it and got nowhere. I just developed my own board to interface directly to the motor and I'm using a throttle position sensor attached to the shaft for feedback.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
Haven't gotten anywhere lately, my lifes been pretty crazy. I managed to drill a new alignment hole and clock the turbo, and got a bit further with the electronic control system (re-designed again, sensor, motor, and cpu boards now communicate with ethernet for easy debugging and computer interface. have sensor and motor boards assembled, sensor programmed)
If you get anywhere with figuring out how to use the existing circuit board in the electronic actuator, please let me know. I spent about a week researching the chips in it and got nowhere. I just developed my own board to interface directly to the motor and I'm using a throttle position sensor attached to the shaft for feedback.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
07-17-2009, 03:23 PM
#13
(07-17-2009, 10:52 AM)DeliveryValve I'll leave FI or winmutt could tell you more, but this is the perfect turbo for a well tuned 617 with stock elements IP. If your going beyond stock elements, this turbo will be too small.
Thats pretty much right on. For daily driving its a good match but the exhaust drive pressure can get a little high in the upper RPM range.
ForcedInduction
07-17-2009, 03:23 PM
#13
(07-17-2009, 10:52 AM)DeliveryValve I'll leave FI or winmutt could tell you more, but this is the perfect turbo for a well tuned 617 with stock elements IP. If your going beyond stock elements, this turbo will be too small.
Thats pretty much right on. For daily driving its a good match but the exhaust drive pressure can get a little high in the upper RPM range.
07-18-2009, 04:07 AM
#15
(07-17-2009, 03:23 PM)ForcedInduction .....For daily driving its a good match but the exhaust drive pressure can get a little high in the upper RPM range.
This is where I think the adapter plate on the Federal manifold is acting like dam and causing a little reservoir behind it. It would seem logical the pressure spike would be most apparent at the higher rpms.
Check out the two pictures here. The GT2256v port (left pic) is almost half the size of the Federal port that is outlined on the back side (right pic).
The collector on the exhaust manifold has enough area with a restrictor plate on it to have a cavity.
I think a custom header would solve this issue. But since I can't make one. I am planning on using a '85 California exhaust manifold and making a pipe that loop to the turbo. All the same diameter, no cavities. Plus I can have it sit about 3 to 4 inches back from the original position to be able to install a 603 air box in front of the turbo. What do you think?
Here's a Cali manifold pic that I pirated from peachparts member jeremy5848. I would have that pipe half as long.
.
This post was last modified: 07-18-2009, 04:15 AM by DeliveryValve.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
07-18-2009, 04:07 AM #15(07-17-2009, 03:23 PM)ForcedInduction .....For daily driving its a good match but the exhaust drive pressure can get a little high in the upper RPM range.
This is where I think the adapter plate on the Federal manifold is acting like dam and causing a little reservoir behind it. It would seem logical the pressure spike would be most apparent at the higher rpms.
Check out the two pictures here. The GT2256v port (left pic) is almost half the size of the Federal port that is outlined on the back side (right pic).
The collector on the exhaust manifold has enough area with a restrictor plate on it to have a cavity.
I think a custom header would solve this issue. But since I can't make one. I am planning on using a '85 California exhaust manifold and making a pipe that loop to the turbo. All the same diameter, no cavities. Plus I can have it sit about 3 to 4 inches back from the original position to be able to install a 603 air box in front of the turbo. What do you think?
Here's a Cali manifold pic that I pirated from peachparts member jeremy5848. I would have that pipe half as long.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
07-18-2009, 06:43 AM
#16
(07-18-2009, 04:07 AM)DeliveryValve This is where I think the adapter plate on the Federal manifold is acting like dam and causing a little reservoir behind it. It would seem logical the pressure spike would be most apparent at the higher rpms.
It doesn't matter what you do the the manifold, the turbine housing inlet will still be the same shape/area/volume. About the only thing that could alleviate the "dam effect" is to use an overly thick plate and make a bell mouth to smooth out the remaining width.
Thats pretty much what I did. The plate pictured is a 1/4" thick template/prototype, thats why I allowed those marks to remain in the metal. The final plate is 1/2" thick and allowed me to make a much smoother port transition.
Something like my second plate(s)...
This post was last modified: 07-18-2009, 06:43 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
07-18-2009, 06:43 AM
#16
(07-18-2009, 04:07 AM)DeliveryValve This is where I think the adapter plate on the Federal manifold is acting like dam and causing a little reservoir behind it. It would seem logical the pressure spike would be most apparent at the higher rpms.
It doesn't matter what you do the the manifold, the turbine housing inlet will still be the same shape/area/volume. About the only thing that could alleviate the "dam effect" is to use an overly thick plate and make a bell mouth to smooth out the remaining width.
Thats pretty much what I did. The plate pictured is a 1/4" thick template/prototype, thats why I allowed those marks to remain in the metal. The final plate is 1/2" thick and allowed me to make a much smoother port transition.
Something like my second plate(s)...
07-19-2009, 01:59 AM
#17
(07-18-2009, 06:43 AM)ForcedInduction ....
It doesn't matter what you do the the manifold, the turbine housing inlet will still be the same shape/area/volume. About the only thing that could alleviate the "dam effect" is to use an overly thick plate and make a bell mouth to smooth out the remaining width.....
Well I don't have any hard numbers to back it up, but I think it still is an issue. The collector on the Federal manifold gets as deep as 2 3/4 inches with an opening of 2 1/4 x 1 3/4 inches. Then it gets narrowed down to, because of it's odd shape, an average 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 for the turbo inlet. I think it's still a big cavity behind that plate. But that's my thoughts and it may not matter like you said.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
07-19-2009, 01:59 AM #17(07-18-2009, 06:43 AM)ForcedInduction ....
It doesn't matter what you do the the manifold, the turbine housing inlet will still be the same shape/area/volume. About the only thing that could alleviate the "dam effect" is to use an overly thick plate and make a bell mouth to smooth out the remaining width.....
Well I don't have any hard numbers to back it up, but I think it still is an issue. The collector on the Federal manifold gets as deep as 2 3/4 inches with an opening of 2 1/4 x 1 3/4 inches. Then it gets narrowed down to, because of it's odd shape, an average 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 for the turbo inlet. I think it's still a big cavity behind that plate. But that's my thoughts and it may not matter like you said.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
07-19-2009, 09:23 AM
#18
Until it matched the federal opening. Then I welded a flange matching the exhaust port (identical T3).
No additional adaptor plate, as narrow as possible.
Now I can still use the original air filter including the U-tube, everything looks stock.
Pics below.
The oil return line leads into the short tube remaining in the oil pan. The bigger dia tube matches the original seal.
Tom
This post was last modified: 07-28-2009, 11:37 PM by tomnik.
I modified only the turbine housing by cutting, welding, grinding, welding, grinding,...
Until it matched the federal opening. Then I welded a flange matching the exhaust port (identical T3).
No additional adaptor plate, as narrow as possible.
Now I can still use the original air filter including the U-tube, everything looks stock.
Pics below.
The oil return line leads into the short tube remaining in the oil pan. The bigger dia tube matches the original seal.
Tom
07-20-2009, 03:12 AM
#19
(Excuse the poor cutting. I was in quite a hurry to get done at the time...)
This post was last modified: 07-20-2009, 03:14 AM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
07-20-2009, 03:12 AM
#19
I pulled the 2256 from my 240 today in preparation for installing it on the 300D.
(Excuse the poor cutting. I was in quite a hurry to get done at the time...)
07-23-2009, 03:28 PM
#20
(07-17-2009, 01:23 PM)winmutt Are yours mechanical or electrical vane control. Mine is electronic and am trying to find out what makes it tick.
Does yours have the common black box with Hella on it? If so, it is the same controller as the one on my CDI and my GT2056V turbo from a 2007 Sprinter. I used my W211 DVD to figure out the wiring, used a scope to look at the signal (PWM), and I'm able to control the vanes on the bench.
I think it has the option to be CAN controlled, but the one on my CDI, and the Sprinter turbo both use the same control system. I actually plugged the Sprinter turbo into the CDI wiring harness, and it works like a champ.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(07-17-2009, 01:23 PM)winmutt Are yours mechanical or electrical vane control. Mine is electronic and am trying to find out what makes it tick.
Does yours have the common black box with Hella on it? If so, it is the same controller as the one on my CDI and my GT2056V turbo from a 2007 Sprinter. I used my W211 DVD to figure out the wiring, used a scope to look at the signal (PWM), and I'm able to control the vanes on the bench.
I think it has the option to be CAN controlled, but the one on my CDI, and the Sprinter turbo both use the same control system. I actually plugged the Sprinter turbo into the CDI wiring harness, and it works like a champ.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
07-23-2009, 06:51 PM
#21
(07-17-2009, 01:23 PM)winmutt You have three? Wish you had mentioned that last month before I got one off EBay heheheh
Are yours mechanical or electrical vane control. Mine is electronic and am trying to find out what makes it tick.
...
For some odd reason, I missed your question. I have the vacuum operated versions.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
07-23-2009, 06:51 PM #21(07-17-2009, 01:23 PM)winmutt You have three? Wish you had mentioned that last month before I got one off EBay heheheh
Are yours mechanical or electrical vane control. Mine is electronic and am trying to find out what makes it tick.
...
For some odd reason, I missed your question. I have the vacuum operated versions.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
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