300d - 4 Speed Manual Conversion
300d - 4 Speed Manual Conversion
I was at a local Pull'n'Save and found a 1979 240D W123. It had the 4 speed manual tranny. I have already read so much about these manual swaps and decided i'll pull it out. So one Saturday morning, my brother and I pulled everything we thought we'd need for a manual conversion and for $140 dollars, I had a manual transmission, Flywheel, Clutch disk, pressure plate, Cross member, drive shaft, pedal, and shifter assembly, with all the bolts for everything.
School is out on Tuesday, so thats when shes going up and I'm going to pull the tranny. I have researched a lot about this conversion, but i dont really understand about balancing the flywheel to the crankshaft? I dont know how to find out if my flywheel is neutrally balanced.
Any help or tips about this conversion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a LOT! -David
MrUkrainian
05-16-2013, 08:36 PM #1First, I want to start off and say that im new to the forum. I am 16 years old and doing my first manual conversion, so I may not know everything about being a mechanic. I have a 1981 Mercedes 300D W123 with the OM617.952 turbo diesel and auto transmission from a 1984 300TD wagon that I swapped in.
I was at a local Pull'n'Save and found a 1979 240D W123. It had the 4 speed manual tranny. I have already read so much about these manual swaps and decided i'll pull it out. So one Saturday morning, my brother and I pulled everything we thought we'd need for a manual conversion and for $140 dollars, I had a manual transmission, Flywheel, Clutch disk, pressure plate, Cross member, drive shaft, pedal, and shifter assembly, with all the bolts for everything.
School is out on Tuesday, so thats when shes going up and I'm going to pull the tranny. I have researched a lot about this conversion, but i dont really understand about balancing the flywheel to the crankshaft? I dont know how to find out if my flywheel is neutrally balanced.
Any help or tips about this conversion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a LOT! -David
MrUkrainian
05-16-2013, 09:58 PM #3Thanks! It's only been a couple of months, but I'm already so tired of the auto tranny acting up downshifting when i dont want it to and what not. It shifts pretty hard too. Hopefully this conversion isnt too hard.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
05-16-2013, 11:06 PM #5Mark with a scribe before disassembly, and take to a shop that does balancing
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
I took my flywheel and pressure plate to a balancer and told them to "balance it" and thats what they did. I haven't had any vibration issues.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
You do know that the 240 drive shaft is too long right?
I took my flywheel and pressure plate to a balancer and told them to "balance it" and thats what they did. I haven't had any vibration issues.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
1983 300TD : 4 Speed : SLS Delete : More. Daily Deathcab
1987 190E/16v/OM603 : 5 Speed : SLS Delete : Lots More..W201 Project
Mark the automatic flywheel alignment on the crankshaft, take the manual and the auto flywheel to the machine shop & say you want it match-balanced. They will replicate your mark on the manual flywheel and balance it exactly like the automatic one.
1983 300TD : 4 Speed : SLS Delete : More. Daily Deathcab
1987 190E/16v/OM603 : 5 Speed : SLS Delete : Lots More..W201 Project
I took my auto flywheel setup (all parts listed above...anything between the crank and torque converter all matchmarked to be obvious in orientation) to a local machine shop and had them check the balance . Mine happened to be basically neutral, I believe a couple grams off? I don't remember. Anyway, some people had different results. The idea here is to make a reference mark on the new flywheel (take the spacer ring plate deal and choose a spot that makes sense on the donor's flywheel to match up with the marks on your crank....
Then the machine shop can "match balance" (if necessary, like I said mine was GTG without doing that) or just neutral balance (like mine) the new flywheel and pressure plate bolted together(as they will be in your car...also matchmarked to each other).
Be prepared for a little shudder/vibration with the light 240 flywheel. Apparently there is not enough mass to properly absorb the inherent imbalance of the 5 cylinder with the lighter flywheel. That being said, many people have doine this swap and used the 240D flywheel (my first attempt included) and have put many thousands of miles on them... Just a little unpleasant in stop and go traffic, but still way better overall than the auto IMO.
Also like mentioned above, you need to figure out your front driveshaft length prior to attempting this swap... The 240D shaft will be way too long to go behind the 300D engine...it'll need to be chopped and preferably balanced, best way is to jack the car up and measure the dofference for yourself, but the numbers are posted here and on PP, but youre gonna have to search...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
05-20-2013, 02:59 PM #8If you have a set of center punches (sharp tip like for starting a drill) I always mark anything I pull apart that can be reinstalled in a different orientation with a very conspicous mark, usualy two dots inline on both sides of the split, in this case 2 on the crank and 2 on the auto flywheel, spacer plate and flexplate.
I took my auto flywheel setup (all parts listed above...anything between the crank and torque converter all matchmarked to be obvious in orientation) to a local machine shop and had them check the balance . Mine happened to be basically neutral, I believe a couple grams off? I don't remember. Anyway, some people had different results. The idea here is to make a reference mark on the new flywheel (take the spacer ring plate deal and choose a spot that makes sense on the donor's flywheel to match up with the marks on your crank....
Then the machine shop can "match balance" (if necessary, like I said mine was GTG without doing that) or just neutral balance (like mine) the new flywheel and pressure plate bolted together(as they will be in your car...also matchmarked to each other).
Be prepared for a little shudder/vibration with the light 240 flywheel. Apparently there is not enough mass to properly absorb the inherent imbalance of the 5 cylinder with the lighter flywheel. That being said, many people have doine this swap and used the 240D flywheel (my first attempt included) and have put many thousands of miles on them... Just a little unpleasant in stop and go traffic, but still way better overall than the auto IMO.
Also like mentioned above, you need to figure out your front driveshaft length prior to attempting this swap... The 240D shaft will be way too long to go behind the 300D engine...it'll need to be chopped and preferably balanced, best way is to jack the car up and measure the dofference for yourself, but the numbers are posted here and on PP, but youre gonna have to search...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
MrUkrainian
05-20-2013, 03:45 PM #9Thanks a lot, that really helped. Does anyone know about how much its going to cost for a shop to shorten my driveshaft and balance, and the flywheel?
Don't forget you will need to shorten and then adjust the shifter rods it can be done fairly easily but you may need a tap & dye set to re thread the rods or a welder to cut and re weld the shifter rods to the correct length they need to be adjustable to get them adjusted correctly
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
05-20-2013, 04:01 PM #10probably around $150-300 for the drive shaft. It will need to be rebalanced when they are done welding it
Don't forget you will need to shorten and then adjust the shifter rods it can be done fairly easily but you may need a tap & dye set to re thread the rods or a welder to cut and re weld the shifter rods to the correct length they need to be adjustable to get them adjusted correctly
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
This is where I'm at now, sorry for the bad picture. haha
Difference in drive shafts..
This auto tranny is a lot heavier then the manual one... haha
MrUkrainian
06-10-2013, 04:57 PM #11Alright, I actually started doing the manual swap. Today, I pulled the transmission and driveshaft off... And now I dont know what to do. Whats next? I am supposed to mark something on the auto flywheel before i take it off? Also, how do I know if my flywheel is neutrally balanced?
This is where I'm at now, sorry for the bad picture. haha
Difference in drive shafts..
This auto tranny is a lot heavier then the manual one... haha
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-11-2013, 09:43 AM #12Mark the flywheel to the crankshaft before you take it off. then you can have both flywheels checked for neutral balance at a machine shop if they are neutral it dose not matter how you put the new one on. If its not neutral they will match them and mark the new flywheel so you can line it back up. most likely it will be neutral.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
MrUkrainian
06-11-2013, 12:32 PM #13Is there any way that I can check for balance myself, without taking it to a shop? Maybe I could bolt up the flywheel and start the engine without the transmission and check for vibrations? Or would that not help at all? haha I'm 16 and on a tight budget..
If you can put it on a bearing and mark it on one side spin it. If the mark come up in the same spot its heavy on the bottom or off balance. if the mark comes up in random places every time its probably neutral.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-11-2013, 05:27 PM #14I would put it all together as is. It will run and drive just fine its probably going to have some minor vibrations any ways because the 240d flywheel is lighter that a stock 300d flywheel. Many have used the 240d flywheel before with no real issues except low rpm in high gears will get some vibrations with the 240d flywheel. But its more annoying than anything. You would have to save up for a 300d flywheel out of a euro 300d stick car or a G wagon they fetch around $300 if you want no vibrations at all
If you can put it on a bearing and mark it on one side spin it. If the mark come up in the same spot its heavy on the bottom or off balance. if the mark comes up in random places every time its probably neutral.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
MrUkrainian
06-11-2013, 10:34 PM #15Are these the marks? Does this mean that my flywheel isnt neutrally balanced?
Any machine shop could check the balance pretty cheap and easy. I would call a NAPA/Car quest and ask them! If they can turn a flywheel I would think they could check balance
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-12-2013, 12:19 PM #17With out a balance machine you can put a bearing in the middle of it and spin it on a shaft the heavy side should always go to the bottom if ifs neutrally balance it will stop spinning at random points.
Any machine shop could check the balance pretty cheap and easy. I would call a NAPA/Car quest and ask them! If they can turn a flywheel I would think they could check balance
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
Anyway, by marking the stuff that came off the car (and the crank to match) you can always have it checked later, if necessary. You are most likely going to be a-okay running that 240D flywheel as is and like will mentioned above, the 240D wheel is going to make its presence known anyway.
In fact, I think that when I first did the swap, I ran it like that and kept the other stuff marked and ziptied together for my heavier 300gd wheel that I ordered...put several thousand miles on it (like 4-5 oil changes) without issue and had planned on match balalncing the GD wheel to the old stuff, but ended up neutral instead.
So, my suggestion (worked for me, YMMV) is to bolt up the 240 flywheel and clutch and install the trans so you can measure the new total length the driveshaft needs to be and focus your money there. I overpaid for my cut and rebalance, but others have paid about 150-200 shipped for theirs and that seems reasonable to me.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
06-12-2013, 01:54 PM #18Honestly, I would just mark the old stuff as it came off the crank... I remember being on a tight budget and I'd say you should focus your money on the driveshaft... not really an expense you can avoid... The 240D flywheel will most likely be really close to neutral (probably within a few grams). If it was good enough for M-B, it should be good enough for you... Most people who modifiy and adapt stuff for their cars are engineers at heart (if not training) and tend to overdo things when they can to make sure they never have to worry about it...
Anyway, by marking the stuff that came off the car (and the crank to match) you can always have it checked later, if necessary. You are most likely going to be a-okay running that 240D flywheel as is and like will mentioned above, the 240D wheel is going to make its presence known anyway.
In fact, I think that when I first did the swap, I ran it like that and kept the other stuff marked and ziptied together for my heavier 300gd wheel that I ordered...put several thousand miles on it (like 4-5 oil changes) without issue and had planned on match balalncing the GD wheel to the old stuff, but ended up neutral instead.
So, my suggestion (worked for me, YMMV) is to bolt up the 240 flywheel and clutch and install the trans so you can measure the new total length the driveshaft needs to be and focus your money there. I overpaid for my cut and rebalance, but others have paid about 150-200 shipped for theirs and that seems reasonable to me.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
MrUkrainian
06-12-2013, 02:34 PM #19I think I'm going to just bolt it up. I marked the auto flywheel to the crank, and removed it. I didnt find any marks, so hopefully it is neutrally balanced as well. While I still have the transmission out, what are some things I can replace? I know I need to get a pilot bearing.. What else is easy and affordable to change?
(06-12-2013, 02:34 PM)MrUkrainian I think I'm going to just bolt it up. I marked the auto flywheel to the crank, and removed it. I didnt find any marks, so hopefully it is neutrally balanced as well. While I still have the transmission out, what are some things I can replace? I know I need to get a pilot bearing.. What else is easy and affordable to change?
im pretty much right where you are, got the engine out today, gonna put the turbo engine in next week after i get it balanced.
I havent removed the pilot bearing yet or gotten a new one.
is there anything else that goes in besides just the pilot bearing itself? do i need to swap the flange that is on the crank too?
and what bolts did you use to put the fly wheel back on? the ones i ordered are longer than what came off the manual fly wheel.
(06-12-2013, 02:34 PM)MrUkrainian I think I'm going to just bolt it up. I marked the auto flywheel to the crank, and removed it. I didnt find any marks, so hopefully it is neutrally balanced as well. While I still have the transmission out, what are some things I can replace? I know I need to get a pilot bearing.. What else is easy and affordable to change?
im pretty much right where you are, got the engine out today, gonna put the turbo engine in next week after i get it balanced.
I havent removed the pilot bearing yet or gotten a new one.
is there anything else that goes in besides just the pilot bearing itself? do i need to swap the flange that is on the crank too?
and what bolts did you use to put the fly wheel back on? the ones i ordered are longer than what came off the manual fly wheel.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
07-07-2013, 10:06 PM #21Ha!! I'm almost finished with my manual swap, I just need to bleed the clutch and connect the shift linkages and I'll be doooooooone! Well, I guess I need to jump the wires for the neutral safety switch and hook up the reverse lights...
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
(07-07-2013, 10:06 PM)sassparilla_kid Ha!! I'm almost finished with my manual swap, I just need to bleed the clutch and connect the shift linkages and I'll be doooooooone! Well, I guess I need to jump the wires for the neutral safety switch and hook up the reverse lights...
when you say jump the wires for the neutral safety switch, you mean the remnants from old automatic trans? because i didnt see that on my manual trans? only had a reverse light switch
(07-07-2013, 10:06 PM)sassparilla_kid Ha!! I'm almost finished with my manual swap, I just need to bleed the clutch and connect the shift linkages and I'll be doooooooone! Well, I guess I need to jump the wires for the neutral safety switch and hook up the reverse lights...
when you say jump the wires for the neutral safety switch, you mean the remnants from old automatic trans? because i didnt see that on my manual trans? only had a reverse light switch
(07-08-2013, 03:59 AM)poleshady(07-07-2013, 10:06 PM)sassparilla_kid Ha!! I'm almost finished with my manual swap, I just need to bleed the clutch and connect the shift linkages and I'll be doooooooone! Well, I guess I need to jump the wires for the neutral safety switch and hook up the reverse lights...
when you say jump the wires for the neutral safety switch, you mean the remnants from old automatic trans? because i didnt see that on my manual trans? only had a reverse light switch
AFAIK, there is no neutral safety on the manual transmissions. So you need to have a brain when you start the car :p
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
07-08-2013, 12:16 PM #23(07-08-2013, 03:59 AM)poleshady(07-07-2013, 10:06 PM)sassparilla_kid Ha!! I'm almost finished with my manual swap, I just need to bleed the clutch and connect the shift linkages and I'll be doooooooone! Well, I guess I need to jump the wires for the neutral safety switch and hook up the reverse lights...
when you say jump the wires for the neutral safety switch, you mean the remnants from old automatic trans? because i didnt see that on my manual trans? only had a reverse light switch
AFAIK, there is no neutral safety on the manual transmissions. So you need to have a brain when you start the car :p
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(07-08-2013, 12:16 PM)Simpler=Better(07-08-2013, 03:59 AM)poleshady(07-07-2013, 10:06 PM)sassparilla_kid Ha!! I'm almost finished with my manual swap, I just need to bleed the clutch and connect the shift linkages and I'll be doooooooone! Well, I guess I need to jump the wires for the neutral safety switch and hook up the reverse lights...
when you say jump the wires for the neutral safety switch, you mean the remnants from old automatic trans? because i didnt see that on my manual trans? only had a reverse light switch
AFAIK, there is no neutral safety on the manual transmissions. So you need to have a brain when you start the car :p
Yeah what he said, since there isn't one on the manual you need to cross two wires so the car thinks it's in neutral
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
07-08-2013, 02:19 PM #24(07-08-2013, 12:16 PM)Simpler=Better(07-08-2013, 03:59 AM)poleshady(07-07-2013, 10:06 PM)sassparilla_kid Ha!! I'm almost finished with my manual swap, I just need to bleed the clutch and connect the shift linkages and I'll be doooooooone! Well, I guess I need to jump the wires for the neutral safety switch and hook up the reverse lights...
when you say jump the wires for the neutral safety switch, you mean the remnants from old automatic trans? because i didnt see that on my manual trans? only had a reverse light switch
AFAIK, there is no neutral safety on the manual transmissions. So you need to have a brain when you start the car :p
Yeah what he said, since there isn't one on the manual you need to cross two wires so the car thinks it's in neutral
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
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