Cummins 8.3L Injection Pump Identification (Bosch M?)
Cummins 8.3L Injection Pump Identification (Bosch M?)
06-13-2013, 09:13 PM
#1
I have a truck with an 8.3L Cummins, and I want to start some tuning. I have EGT, Boost and Fuel Pressure gauges installed and I am eager to play around with the pump a little. Only problem, I have no idea what controls what on this pump. I have spent quite some time on Google and turned up a whole lot of nothing. I know Bosch MW pumps were used on a lot of 6CTA engines, but from my Mercedes Diesel Bosch Tag Identification knowledge, I believe this is a Bosch M pump, but I can't find anything on these larger M pumps. Can anyone offer any help?
-Jack Miles : Tampa : Florida :
1963 Unimog 404 TLF-8 - OM617.951 Powered / 8-Speed / Doka Hardcab
Mercedes L1116 L1319
Gassers - '63 'Mog, '65 'Mog / '86 190e 2.3-16 / '87 190e 2.3-16 / '90 190e 2.6/5
Hey Guys,
I have a truck with an 8.3L Cummins, and I want to start some tuning. I have EGT, Boost and Fuel Pressure gauges installed and I am eager to play around with the pump a little. Only problem, I have no idea what controls what on this pump. I have spent quite some time on Google and turned up a whole lot of nothing. I know Bosch MW pumps were used on a lot of 6CTA engines, but from my Mercedes Diesel Bosch Tag Identification knowledge, I believe this is a Bosch M pump, but I can't find anything on these larger M pumps. Can anyone offer any help?
-Jack Miles : Tampa : Florida :
1963 Unimog 404 TLF-8 - OM617.951 Powered / 8-Speed / Doka Hardcab
Mercedes L1116 L1319
Gassers - '63 'Mog, '65 'Mog / '86 190e 2.3-16 / '87 190e 2.3-16 / '90 190e 2.6/5
06-14-2013, 06:50 AM
#2
Some people there will rattle it all off for you pretty quick.
Ed
yankneck696
06-14-2013, 06:50 AM #2Try on www.4btswaps.com
Some people there will rattle it all off for you pretty quick.
Ed
Alastair E
06-14-2013, 07:30 AM #3Thats an 'MW' pump....
--It'll have 'MW' in its BOSCH part-number.....
![[Image: 300TDnoplate.jpg]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z128/alastairhcii/300TDnoplate.jpg)
06-14-2013, 11:26 AM
#5
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Kinda funny. Alastair says its a MW, on616 thinks its a p-pump and I think it looks like an A-pump!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
06-14-2013, 01:37 PM
#6
(06-14-2013, 11:26 AM)MFSuper90 Kinda funny. Alastair says its a MW, on616 thinks its a p-pump and I think it looks like an A-pump!
If I recall correctly, the A pump uses elements that look like the elements used in the M pump, ie. they do not have a flange like the MW or P elements do.
Does the winner get anything for correctly identifying the pump? Lol
(06-14-2013, 11:26 AM)MFSuper90 Kinda funny. Alastair says its a MW, on616 thinks its a p-pump and I think it looks like an A-pump!
If I recall correctly, the A pump uses elements that look like the elements used in the M pump, ie. they do not have a flange like the MW or P elements do.
Does the winner get anything for correctly identifying the pump? Lol
06-14-2013, 10:44 PM
#7
The governor is an RSV governor, fellow on another website was able to identify that.
-Jack Miles : Tampa : Florida :
1963 Unimog 404 TLF-8 - OM617.951 Powered / 8-Speed / Doka Hardcab
Mercedes L1116 L1319
Gassers - '63 'Mog, '65 'Mog / '86 190e 2.3-16 / '87 190e 2.3-16 / '90 190e 2.6/5
Doesn't the "M" on the attached photo mean M Pump?
The governor is an RSV governor, fellow on another website was able to identify that.
-Jack Miles : Tampa : Florida :
1963 Unimog 404 TLF-8 - OM617.951 Powered / 8-Speed / Doka Hardcab
Mercedes L1116 L1319
Gassers - '63 'Mog, '65 'Mog / '86 190e 2.3-16 / '87 190e 2.3-16 / '90 190e 2.6/5
diesel2fast4u
06-15-2013, 12:44 AM #8p pump...
check www.cumminsforum.com lots of info
Grand cherokee WK (OM642)
06-15-2013, 03:15 AM
#9
(06-14-2013, 11:01 AM)OM616 My bet is that it is a P pump, They use the same elements as the MW, but can go much larger... 12mm /14mm elements can be found easily for a P pump.
The tag will say what it is.
uhhh, no!
Pump on picture is MW with RSV governor,
Elements etc is not the same as any other pumps
MW goes to 10 mm element size, 10mm stroke
P goes to 13mm element stock, 11-14mm stroke
dieselmeken
06-15-2013, 03:15 AM #9(06-14-2013, 11:01 AM)OM616 My bet is that it is a P pump, They use the same elements as the MW, but can go much larger... 12mm /14mm elements can be found easily for a P pump.
The tag will say what it is.
uhhh, no!
Pump on picture is MW with RSV governor,
Elements etc is not the same as any other pumps
MW goes to 10 mm element size, 10mm stroke
P goes to 13mm element stock, 11-14mm stroke
06-15-2013, 12:03 PM
#11
(06-15-2013, 03:15 AM)dieselmeken(06-14-2013, 11:01 AM)OM616 My bet is that it is a P pump, They use the same elements as the MW, but can go much larger... 12mm /14mm elements can be found easily for a P pump.
The tag will say what it is.
uhhh, no!
Pump on picture is MW with RSV governor,
Elements etc is not the same as any other pumps
MW goes to 10 mm element size, 10mm stroke
P goes to 13mm element stock, 11-14mm stroke
I should have clarified... PS7100 pump..... I am running PS7100 elements min my MW pumps and have several on the self. Although most PS7100 elements are of the thick flange type, there are some thin flange ones that are available.
It would be nice to see the mounting flange... The MW (generally) a three bolt flange and the PS7100 pumps that I have seen have a 4 bolt flange...
The PS7100 Pump is basically a MW pump on steroids lol
Edit: Here is a link to one on e-bay; http://www.ebay.com/itm/P7100-Bosch-Fuel..._87wt_1394
This post was last modified: 06-15-2013, 12:34 PM by OM616.
(06-15-2013, 03:15 AM)dieselmeken(06-14-2013, 11:01 AM)OM616 My bet is that it is a P pump, They use the same elements as the MW, but can go much larger... 12mm /14mm elements can be found easily for a P pump.
The tag will say what it is.
uhhh, no!
Pump on picture is MW with RSV governor,
Elements etc is not the same as any other pumps
MW goes to 10 mm element size, 10mm stroke
P goes to 13mm element stock, 11-14mm stroke
I should have clarified... PS7100 pump..... I am running PS7100 elements min my MW pumps and have several on the self. Although most PS7100 elements are of the thick flange type, there are some thin flange ones that are available.
It would be nice to see the mounting flange... The MW (generally) a three bolt flange and the PS7100 pumps that I have seen have a 4 bolt flange...
The PS7100 Pump is basically a MW pump on steroids lol
Edit: Here is a link to one on e-bay; http://www.ebay.com/itm/P7100-Bosch-Fuel..._87wt_1394
06-15-2013, 12:34 PM
#12
(06-15-2013, 12:03 PM)OM616(06-15-2013, 03:15 AM)dieselmeken(06-14-2013, 11:01 AM)OM616 My bet is that it is a P pump, They use the same elements as the MW, but can go much larger... 12mm /14mm elements can be found easily for a P pump.
The tag will say what it is.
uhhh, no!
Pump on picture is MW with RSV governor,
Elements etc is not the same as any other pumps
MW goes to 10 mm element size, 10mm stroke
P goes to 13mm element stock, 11-14mm stroke
I should have clarified... PS7100 pump..... I am running PS7100 elements min my MW pumps and have several on the self. Although most PS7100 elements are of the thick flange type, there are some thin flange ones that are available.
It would be nice to see the mounting flange... The MW (generally) a three bolt flange and the PS7100 pumps that I have seen have a 4 bolt flange...
The PS7100 Pump is basically a MW pump on steroids lol
Uhhh again, OM616, do you really know this whit Bosch pumps??
If P is a MW on steroides,then R is a P on steroides, and H is a R on steroides, Thats not correct.
Different pumpsizes is for different engine power
Its based on engine size / powewr output / cyl, I dont have the correct diagram, but it whit inlinepumps it starts with A followed by MW-P-R-H-Z
etc.
Just to clarify, MW elements DONT fit into P-serie pumps.
Only thing they have in common is that they look the same on the flange.
MW is fitted into pumphouse with a M8 threded pin, P-series have M10 thread.
The elements are not exchangable with each other.
You (OM616) have most certanly a P 7100 serie in your Cummins
dieselmeken
06-15-2013, 12:34 PM #12(06-15-2013, 12:03 PM)OM616(06-15-2013, 03:15 AM)dieselmeken(06-14-2013, 11:01 AM)OM616 My bet is that it is a P pump, They use the same elements as the MW, but can go much larger... 12mm /14mm elements can be found easily for a P pump.
The tag will say what it is.
uhhh, no!
Pump on picture is MW with RSV governor,
Elements etc is not the same as any other pumps
MW goes to 10 mm element size, 10mm stroke
P goes to 13mm element stock, 11-14mm stroke
I should have clarified... PS7100 pump..... I am running PS7100 elements min my MW pumps and have several on the self. Although most PS7100 elements are of the thick flange type, there are some thin flange ones that are available.
It would be nice to see the mounting flange... The MW (generally) a three bolt flange and the PS7100 pumps that I have seen have a 4 bolt flange...
The PS7100 Pump is basically a MW pump on steroids lol
Uhhh again, OM616, do you really know this whit Bosch pumps??
If P is a MW on steroides,then R is a P on steroides, and H is a R on steroides, Thats not correct.
Different pumpsizes is for different engine power
Its based on engine size / powewr output / cyl, I dont have the correct diagram, but it whit inlinepumps it starts with A followed by MW-P-R-H-Z
etc.
Just to clarify, MW elements DONT fit into P-serie pumps.
Only thing they have in common is that they look the same on the flange.
MW is fitted into pumphouse with a M8 threded pin, P-series have M10 thread.
The elements are not exchangable with each other.
You (OM616) have most certanly a P 7100 serie in your Cummins
06-15-2013, 12:53 PM
#13
(06-15-2013, 12:34 PM)dieselmeken(06-15-2013, 12:03 PM)OM616(06-15-2013, 03:15 AM)dieselmeken uhhh, no!
Pump on picture is MW with RSV governor,
Elements etc is not the same as any other pumps
MW goes to 10 mm element size, 10mm stroke
P goes to 13mm element stock, 11-14mm stroke
I should have clarified... PS7100 pump..... I am running PS7100 elements min my MW pumps and have several on the shelf. Although most PS7100 elements are of the thick flange type, there are some thin flange ones that are available.
It would be nice to see the mounting flange... The MW (generally) a three bolt flange and the PS7100 pumps that I have seen have a 4 bolt flange...
The PS7100 Pump is basically a MW pump on steroids lol
Uhhh again, OM616, do you really know this whit Bosch pumps??
If P is a MW on steroides,then R is a P on steroides, and H is a R on steroides, Thats not correct.
Different pumpsizes is for different engine power
Its based on engine size / powewr output / cyl, I dont have the correct diagram, but it whit inlinepumps it starts with A followed by MW-P-R-H-Z
etc.
Just to clarify, MW elements DONT fit into P-serie pumps.
Only thing they have in common is that they look the same on the flange.
MW is fitted into pumphouse with a M8 threded pin, P-series have M10 thread.
The elements are not exchangable with each other.
You (OM616) have most certanly a P 7100 serie in your Cummins
Lets keep things friendly here lol....
To clarify, I did not meen to say that MW elements would be a direct swap to the PS7100 Pump, but I did say that I am running a PS7100 Element in the MW pump.
Here is a link to a PS7100 pump listed on e-bay.. I do not have a better pic to show... http://www.ebay.com/itm/P7100-Bosch-Fuel..._87wt_1394
I do not have a Cummins, only MB diesels, I am running 10mm thin flanged elements that are listed as being used in a PS7100 pump, in my MW pump that I put on a 617a and will be soon putting on my 616 turbo engine.
The 10mm PS7100 element that I have chosen, is a direct swap into the MW pump. I like the robustness of the thick flange elements, but they require a different DV holder, so I am using the thinh flange elements to be able to use the DV holders I have.
I see several different P pump designations when looking at elements, and I am only familiar with he elements for the PS7100 pump specifically, so you are correct that I am not familiar with all the different pumps in the P family, but the PS7100 pump is one that I am familiar with, even have a manual for one.
Looking at a list of elements, I see that there is a P, PN, and PS7100 pump… I am speaking only of the PS7100 pump.
This post was last modified: 06-15-2013, 01:03 PM by OM616.
(06-15-2013, 12:34 PM)dieselmeken(06-15-2013, 12:03 PM)OM616(06-15-2013, 03:15 AM)dieselmeken uhhh, no!
Pump on picture is MW with RSV governor,
Elements etc is not the same as any other pumps
MW goes to 10 mm element size, 10mm stroke
P goes to 13mm element stock, 11-14mm stroke
I should have clarified... PS7100 pump..... I am running PS7100 elements min my MW pumps and have several on the shelf. Although most PS7100 elements are of the thick flange type, there are some thin flange ones that are available.
It would be nice to see the mounting flange... The MW (generally) a three bolt flange and the PS7100 pumps that I have seen have a 4 bolt flange...
The PS7100 Pump is basically a MW pump on steroids lol
Uhhh again, OM616, do you really know this whit Bosch pumps??
If P is a MW on steroides,then R is a P on steroides, and H is a R on steroides, Thats not correct.
Different pumpsizes is for different engine power
Its based on engine size / powewr output / cyl, I dont have the correct diagram, but it whit inlinepumps it starts with A followed by MW-P-R-H-Z
etc.
Just to clarify, MW elements DONT fit into P-serie pumps.
Only thing they have in common is that they look the same on the flange.
MW is fitted into pumphouse with a M8 threded pin, P-series have M10 thread.
The elements are not exchangable with each other.
You (OM616) have most certanly a P 7100 serie in your Cummins
Lets keep things friendly here lol....
To clarify, I did not meen to say that MW elements would be a direct swap to the PS7100 Pump, but I did say that I am running a PS7100 Element in the MW pump.
Here is a link to a PS7100 pump listed on e-bay.. I do not have a better pic to show... http://www.ebay.com/itm/P7100-Bosch-Fuel..._87wt_1394
I do not have a Cummins, only MB diesels, I am running 10mm thin flanged elements that are listed as being used in a PS7100 pump, in my MW pump that I put on a 617a and will be soon putting on my 616 turbo engine.
The 10mm PS7100 element that I have chosen, is a direct swap into the MW pump. I like the robustness of the thick flange elements, but they require a different DV holder, so I am using the thinh flange elements to be able to use the DV holders I have.
I see several different P pump designations when looking at elements, and I am only familiar with he elements for the PS7100 pump specifically, so you are correct that I am not familiar with all the different pumps in the P family, but the PS7100 pump is one that I am familiar with, even have a manual for one.
Looking at a list of elements, I see that there is a P, PN, and PS7100 pump… I am speaking only of the PS7100 pump.
06-16-2013, 01:08 PM
#15
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-8-3L-505..._23wt_1394
You should be able to get a copy of the Bosch service manual for it on ebay as well.
I hope this helps
Here is a link to the exact same pump / governor on ebay...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-8-3L-505..._23wt_1394
You should be able to get a copy of the Bosch service manual for it on ebay as well.
I hope this helps
06-17-2013, 12:28 PM
#16
(06-15-2013, 10:23 AM)MFSuper90 Good thing we have dieselmeken!
I like dieselmeken... he makes me laugh, but I am disappointed with this exchange, or lack there of.... I am fine with being called out, but then after providing additional references and clarification supporting my position that the pump in question is a P7100, and that I am running 10mm P7100 elements in my MW pumps, I expect the challenger to, at the very least, acknowledge such either positively or negatively...
Perhaps if I made a bunch of videos…..
I guess I have a problem with being told I do not know shit when references back me up. If I were making claims about M pumps, then I would expect to be schooled by Dieselmeken, but what elements will work in MW pumps?… I must be on my man period or something… sometimes one just needs to vent ya know…
(06-15-2013, 10:23 AM)MFSuper90 Good thing we have dieselmeken!
I like dieselmeken... he makes me laugh, but I am disappointed with this exchange, or lack there of.... I am fine with being called out, but then after providing additional references and clarification supporting my position that the pump in question is a P7100, and that I am running 10mm P7100 elements in my MW pumps, I expect the challenger to, at the very least, acknowledge such either positively or negatively...
Perhaps if I made a bunch of videos…..
I guess I have a problem with being told I do not know shit when references back me up. If I were making claims about M pumps, then I would expect to be schooled by Dieselmeken, but what elements will work in MW pumps?… I must be on my man period or something… sometimes one just needs to vent ya know…
06-17-2013, 02:11 PM
#17
this pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/P7100-Bosch-Fuel..._87wt_1394
is a P serie 7100
This pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-8-3L-505..._23wt_1394
is a MW serie.
If you look at the pictures you see that there is 2 different pumps
In OM617 MW pumps you can put thin 10 mm elements, no problems at all, direct fit. They are from RS5/RS13 pumps fitted to Volvo D / TD60 engine
Newer MW elements from serie 1000 and up can be fitted but it demands work on the pumphousing.
Maybee Im wrong, One time I thought I was wrong, and that was also wrong.......:-)
or have I missed something here?
This post was last modified: 06-17-2013, 02:13 PM by dieselmeken.
dieselmeken
06-17-2013, 02:11 PM #17Im friendly for sure
this pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/P7100-Bosch-Fuel..._87wt_1394
is a P serie 7100
This pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-8-3L-505..._23wt_1394
is a MW serie.
If you look at the pictures you see that there is 2 different pumps
In OM617 MW pumps you can put thin 10 mm elements, no problems at all, direct fit. They are from RS5/RS13 pumps fitted to Volvo D / TD60 engine
Newer MW elements from serie 1000 and up can be fitted but it demands work on the pumphousing.
Maybee Im wrong, One time I thought I was wrong, and that was also wrong.......:-)
or have I missed something here?
06-17-2013, 03:00 PM
#18
(06-17-2013, 02:11 PM)dieselmeken Im friendly for sure
this pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/P7100-Bosch-Fuel..._87wt_1394
is a P serie 7100
We agree on that.
(06-17-2013, 02:11 PM)dieselmeken This pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-8-3L-505..._23wt_1394
is a MW serie.
If you look at the pictures you see that there is 2 different pumps
OK... I consider myself Schooled..... bellow is a link to a pump that shows the Bosch tag and looks identical to the pump in question. I was pretty confident that it was a P and was incorrect...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Diesel-Inj...197wt_1157
Like Fletch said…”it takes a big man to admit he is wrong… and I am not a big man” lol
(06-17-2013, 02:11 PM)dieselmeken In OM617 MW pumps you can put thin 10 mm elements, no problems at all, direct fit. They are from RS5/RS13 pumps fitted to Volvo D / TD60 engine
Newer MW elements from serie 1000 and up can be fitted but it demands work on the pumphousing.
Yes, we are back in agreement again. It was the assertion that I was wrong about the elements that I am running in my MW pumps that got my knickers in a twist lol. I am cool with being wrong about what pump it was, that was a guess with out seeing the Bosch tag.
Here is a 4 cylinder P pump that looks like the MW, but the Bosch tag can be seen identifying it as a P pump with 12 mm elements.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Cummins-P7...471wt_1394
One of my flaws is I tend to get touchy when I am told that what I have done successfully won't work lol. As I said I like you, you seem like a good guy. Perhaps when I get my equipment assembled we could do a M vrs MW superpump challenge…
(06-17-2013, 02:11 PM)dieselmeken Maybee Im wrong, One time I thought I was wrong, and that was also wrong.......:-)
or have I missed something here?
Nope... I think all is cleared up and is good...I declare you the winner of the, " what pump is this" challenge.
This post was last modified: 06-17-2013, 03:18 PM by OM616.
(06-17-2013, 02:11 PM)dieselmeken Im friendly for sure
this pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/P7100-Bosch-Fuel..._87wt_1394
is a P serie 7100
We agree on that.
(06-17-2013, 02:11 PM)dieselmeken This pump http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-8-3L-505..._23wt_1394
is a MW serie.
If you look at the pictures you see that there is 2 different pumps
OK... I consider myself Schooled..... bellow is a link to a pump that shows the Bosch tag and looks identical to the pump in question. I was pretty confident that it was a P and was incorrect...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bosch-Diesel-Inj...197wt_1157
Like Fletch said…”it takes a big man to admit he is wrong… and I am not a big man” lol
(06-17-2013, 02:11 PM)dieselmeken In OM617 MW pumps you can put thin 10 mm elements, no problems at all, direct fit. They are from RS5/RS13 pumps fitted to Volvo D / TD60 engine
Newer MW elements from serie 1000 and up can be fitted but it demands work on the pumphousing.
Yes, we are back in agreement again. It was the assertion that I was wrong about the elements that I am running in my MW pumps that got my knickers in a twist lol. I am cool with being wrong about what pump it was, that was a guess with out seeing the Bosch tag.
Here is a 4 cylinder P pump that looks like the MW, but the Bosch tag can be seen identifying it as a P pump with 12 mm elements.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Cummins-P7...471wt_1394
One of my flaws is I tend to get touchy when I am told that what I have done successfully won't work lol. As I said I like you, you seem like a good guy. Perhaps when I get my equipment assembled we could do a M vrs MW superpump challenge…
(06-17-2013, 02:11 PM)dieselmeken Maybee Im wrong, One time I thought I was wrong, and that was also wrong.......:-)
or have I missed something here?
Nope... I think all is cleared up and is good...I declare you the winner of the, " what pump is this" challenge.
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