606.962 Compound, Twin or Single VGT?
606.962 Compound, Twin or Single VGT?
Turbos to choose from:
Garrett TV4502 "twin scroll" (a/r .60 compressor / 1.22 turbine)
Holset HE351VE (modified with 2-way vac/pressure actuator)
(2) Garrett GT2256V's (modified with 2-way vac/pressure actuators)
Would you...?
1. Twin 2256's (splitting duty 1-3 & 4-6)
2. Compound TV4502 (low pressure) and HE351V (high pressure)
3. Single HE351V
4. Other combo of above turbos
My initial "dream setup" would be the 351 feeding the 4502 but idk if there would be enough flow to properly spool the 4502.
Please advise.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Hypothetically speaking; if one had a OM606.962 and wanted to boosts power to the maximum HP that stock internals could safely handle, which turbo setup would YOU choose? (IP and injectors will be modified accordingly).
Turbos to choose from:
Garrett TV4502 "twin scroll" (a/r .60 compressor / 1.22 turbine)
Holset HE351VE (modified with 2-way vac/pressure actuator)
(2) Garrett GT2256V's (modified with 2-way vac/pressure actuators)
Would you...?
1. Twin 2256's (splitting duty 1-3 & 4-6)
2. Compound TV4502 (low pressure) and HE351V (high pressure)
3. Single HE351V
4. Other combo of above turbos
My initial "dream setup" would be the 351 feeding the 4502 but idk if there would be enough flow to properly spool the 4502.
Please advise.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
351 would be a 60mm inducer. that would be too close to compound them.
What are the specs of the 2256v?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
From just a little research I did, the tv4502 is only 64mm inducer.
351 would be a 60mm inducer. that would be too close to compound them.
What are the specs of the 2256v?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I don't know if this applies or not:
![[Image: gt22compress.jpg]](http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/163/gt22compress.jpg)
The one on the left:
![[Image: 2256_vs_2260.JPG]](http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/medium/2256_vs_2260.JPG)
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
05-21-2013, 01:52 PM #3The 2256v turbos are from a sprinter. I'm interested in this build as well
I don't know if this applies or not:
The one on the left:
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
could do the 351 or tv4502 as LP, and the 52mm garret as HP.
Compound VNT would be awesomeness!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Hmm. So that is 52 or 59mm inducer correct?
could do the 351 or tv4502 as LP, and the 52mm garret as HP.
Compound VNT would be awesomeness!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
This revelation could be the reason my post went generally unnoticed.
Could someone explain the theory behind why its bad or wrong to use a vnt/vgt on a high performance 606t?
Vnt/vgt compounding is my goal.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
I recently read a post that said that vnt turbos really "suck on a MB superengine" but I don't understand why.
This revelation could be the reason my post went generally unnoticed.
Could someone explain the theory behind why its bad or wrong to use a vnt/vgt on a high performance 606t?
Vnt/vgt compounding is my goal.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
That's just my thoughts
I am also curious why they shy away from variable chargers
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I think if set up correctly it would be pretty awesome, allowing boost at a low rpm, which in turn should let you put more fuel to it earlier, and as being vnt it should also flow well at high rpm when the housings open a little.
That's just my thoughts
I am also curious why they shy away from variable chargers
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
My goal is to get more than 500hp this summer with early spool and smooth acceleration. Spool and acceleration are success for now and more power is coming.
But here you can see how soon compound with this setup spools.
![[Image: IMG_20130709_172153_zps8ff3805c.jpg]](http://s904.photobucket.com/user/BTriker/media/IMG_20130709_172153_zps8ff3805c.jpg.html)
Here is the setup
![[Image: 20130527_180157_zps671d8942.jpg]](http://s904.photobucket.com/user/BTriker/media/20130527_180157_zps671d8942.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_20130606_150657_zpsfadbefa9.jpg]](http://s904.photobucket.com/user/BTriker/media/IMG_20130606_150657_zpsfadbefa9.jpg.html)
Some adjusting and pull
http://youtu.be/yaAbKesv6K8
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Sorry my very bad english but I hope someone understand. I made om606 compound with Schwitzer S2B and S300 with two 60mm wastegates for C126 Merc. Smaller turbo starts spool under 2000rpm and the bigger comes together about 3000rpm and the acceleration is smooth at the end. Now I have just 120cc flathead 7mm and the pump´s feed rate ends but the bigger pump is coming. In a dyno the throttle linkage didn´t go at the end and there where about the ~20-30cc diesel to use so the power and torque left so low. Now the linkage is better and the throttle goes full.
My goal is to get more than 500hp this summer with early spool and smooth acceleration. Spool and acceleration are success for now and more power is coming.
But here you can see how soon compound with this setup spools.
Here is the setup
Some adjusting and pull
http://youtu.be/yaAbKesv6K8
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
07-16-2013, 08:23 AM #9It's gorgeous! You might have to do that buddy
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(07-16-2013, 09:46 AM)HaavardPYA More pics of manifolds etc
Here is some pics
Now there is a scoop over the turbo and side pipe from the passenger side. But I have´t got no picture of those
![[Image: IMG_20130606_102232_zps42375b89.jpg]](http://s904.photobucket.com/user/BTriker/media/IMG_20130606_102232_zps42375b89.jpg.html)
Exhaust manifold. Inner diameter of the manifold is 42mm
![[Image: C360_2012-12-16-11-12-56_zps8a58327c.jpg]](http://s904.photobucket.com/user/BTriker/media/C360_2012-12-16-11-12-56_zps8a58327c.jpg.html)
Intake manifold
![[Image: 20130523_171617_zpsdaaa28c3.jpg]](http://s904.photobucket.com/user/BTriker/media/20130523_171617_zpsdaaa28c3.jpg.html)
How the pipes goes. Downpipe is 3,5" with the screampipe from the second wastegate.
![[Image: C360_2012-12-29-15-00-41.jpg]](http://s904.photobucket.com/user/BTriker/media/C360_2012-12-29-15-00-41.jpg.html)
Some head work
![[Image: 20130201_165551_zps7e81c3a0.jpg]](http://s904.photobucket.com/user/BTriker/media/20130201_165551_zps7e81c3a0.jpg.html)
Transmission is modified by Finnish expert Siekkinen
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
(07-16-2013, 09:46 AM)HaavardPYA More pics of manifolds etc
Here is some pics
Now there is a scoop over the turbo and side pipe from the passenger side. But I have´t got no picture of those
Exhaust manifold. Inner diameter of the manifold is 42mm
Intake manifold
How the pipes goes. Downpipe is 3,5" with the screampipe from the second wastegate.
Some head work
Transmission is modified by Finnish expert Siekkinen
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
(06-23-2013, 09:33 PM)CRD4x4 I recently read a post that said that vnt turbos really "suck on a MB superengine" but I don't understand why.
This revelation could be the reason my post went generally unnoticed.
Could someone explain the theory behind why its bad or wrong to use a vnt/vgt on a high performance 606t?
Vnt/vgt compounding is my goal.
I noticed that Meken said they sucked on an MB, calling them an exhaust brake. Another poster said VNT installs were for folks that don't know anything about turbo tuning.
It's my assumption that there are a whole lot of folks installing VNT turbos with inadequate control of the hot side, giving VNT installs a bad name.
If you're planning to use a VNT in a max power scenario while using a pressure/vacuum wastegate actuator, you only have around 22"/HG of vacuum available to overcome spring force in the actuator. You would end up with too much boost in cruise and light throttle conditions. This would be fine if you were only boosting 1 bar.
raysorenson
07-16-2013, 02:04 PM #12(06-23-2013, 09:33 PM)CRD4x4 I recently read a post that said that vnt turbos really "suck on a MB superengine" but I don't understand why.
This revelation could be the reason my post went generally unnoticed.
Could someone explain the theory behind why its bad or wrong to use a vnt/vgt on a high performance 606t?
Vnt/vgt compounding is my goal.
I noticed that Meken said they sucked on an MB, calling them an exhaust brake. Another poster said VNT installs were for folks that don't know anything about turbo tuning.
It's my assumption that there are a whole lot of folks installing VNT turbos with inadequate control of the hot side, giving VNT installs a bad name.
If you're planning to use a VNT in a max power scenario while using a pressure/vacuum wastegate actuator, you only have around 22"/HG of vacuum available to overcome spring force in the actuator. You would end up with too much boost in cruise and light throttle conditions. This would be fine if you were only boosting 1 bar.
I have had great success width both He351VE and HE341VE
First home-build manifold and HE351VE this one was giving 2.3 Boost width 2.0 bar EGP. at 5000 RPM
The HE341VE + KKD manifold, has a little more back pressure 2.2 boost and 2.2 bar EGP at 5000 RPM.
They can both handle all my Myna pump 7 mm can deliver.
The way i control it is width home-build controller, measuring both BOOST and EGP all the time and closing the wanes as much as possible, bot newer allow the EGP go higher then 0.3 bar higher then Boost,
That why it is not an EXHAUST BRAKE :-) but spool early.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dA9A_F9E...s3bDbNaC2w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULEGavGRa...s3bDbNaC2w
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
Regarding VNT
I have had great success width both He351VE and HE341VE
First home-build manifold and HE351VE this one was giving 2.3 Boost width 2.0 bar EGP. at 5000 RPM
The HE341VE + KKD manifold, has a little more back pressure 2.2 boost and 2.2 bar EGP at 5000 RPM.
They can both handle all my Myna pump 7 mm can deliver.
The way i control it is width home-build controller, measuring both BOOST and EGP all the time and closing the wanes as much as possible, bot newer allow the EGP go higher then 0.3 bar higher then Boost,
That why it is not an EXHAUST BRAKE :-) but spool early.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dA9A_F9E...s3bDbNaC2w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULEGavGRa...s3bDbNaC2w
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
HP turbo efr 7163 LP turbo and GTX4508R, should be good for >800HP
but if BG is not going to release the 7163 soon I will go on different road
I do not dare to have some all originally components
VNT turbo can work but of Type DVANT so the VNT mecanism do not create to much pressure losses. garrett GTB3576VKLNR with GTX3576R compressor wheel would work for medium out put, or if used as HP unit it will be able to make some power
If somebody is just calling VNT exhaust brake is more telling of that persons limited knowledge in turbocharger technology, if you use old stuff there is no absolute not to make it work
There is big difference in in what generation of turbo is used only garrett have GT Gta GTb GTC GTD generations of turbo, and if you combine there racing turbos it can make dissent boost
and power is just not all about boost, the exhaust and intake system is playing a major part, If somebody is telling you they have a high out put motor with original intake I would say there is plenty more to come
If the exhaust pipe has to little volume vs to short the efficiency of the turbine at high boost is going to be low and big exhaust back pressure, in that case a more axial design of the turbine stage would be prefable
using booth intercooler and aftercooler would help further
then if you have really good amount of energy in the exhaust gases you can super cool the intake to -50 degree with turbo techology, but that is really more for an petrol engine
quote='raysorenson' pid='53620' dateline='1374001461']
(06-23-2013, 09:33 PM)CRD4x4 I recently read a post that said that vnt turbos really "suck on a MB superengine" but I don't understand why.
This revelation could be the reason my post went generally unnoticed.
Could someone explain the theory behind why its bad or wrong to use a vnt/vgt on a high performance 606t?
Vnt/vgt compounding is my goal.
I noticed that Meken said they sucked on an MB, calling them an exhaust brake. Another poster said VNT installs were for folks that don't know anything about turbo tuning.
It's my assumption that there are a whole lot of folks installing VNT turbos with inadequate control of the hot side, giving VNT installs a bad name.
If you're planning to use a VNT in a max power scenario while using a pressure/vacuum wastegate actuator, you only have around 22"/HG of vacuum available to overcome spring force in the actuator. You would end up with too much boost in cruise and light throttle conditions. This would be fine if you were only boosting 1 bar.
[/quote]
I am working on serie turbo set up where I have simulated
HP turbo efr 7163 LP turbo and GTX4508R, should be good for >800HP
but if BG is not going to release the 7163 soon I will go on different road
I do not dare to have some all originally components
VNT turbo can work but of Type DVANT so the VNT mecanism do not create to much pressure losses. garrett GTB3576VKLNR with GTX3576R compressor wheel would work for medium out put, or if used as HP unit it will be able to make some power
If somebody is just calling VNT exhaust brake is more telling of that persons limited knowledge in turbocharger technology, if you use old stuff there is no absolute not to make it work
There is big difference in in what generation of turbo is used only garrett have GT Gta GTb GTC GTD generations of turbo, and if you combine there racing turbos it can make dissent boost
and power is just not all about boost, the exhaust and intake system is playing a major part, If somebody is telling you they have a high out put motor with original intake I would say there is plenty more to come
If the exhaust pipe has to little volume vs to short the efficiency of the turbine at high boost is going to be low and big exhaust back pressure, in that case a more axial design of the turbine stage would be prefable
using booth intercooler and aftercooler would help further
then if you have really good amount of energy in the exhaust gases you can super cool the intake to -50 degree with turbo techology, but that is really more for an petrol engine
quote='raysorenson' pid='53620' dateline='1374001461']
(06-23-2013, 09:33 PM)CRD4x4 I recently read a post that said that vnt turbos really "suck on a MB superengine" but I don't understand why.
This revelation could be the reason my post went generally unnoticed.
Could someone explain the theory behind why its bad or wrong to use a vnt/vgt on a high performance 606t?
Vnt/vgt compounding is my goal.
I noticed that Meken said they sucked on an MB, calling them an exhaust brake. Another poster said VNT installs were for folks that don't know anything about turbo tuning.
It's my assumption that there are a whole lot of folks installing VNT turbos with inadequate control of the hot side, giving VNT installs a bad name.
If you're planning to use a VNT in a max power scenario while using a pressure/vacuum wastegate actuator, you only have around 22"/HG of vacuum available to overcome spring force in the actuator. You would end up with too much boost in cruise and light throttle conditions. This would be fine if you were only boosting 1 bar.
[/quote]
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-0...-pics.html
Ed
yankneck696
07-17-2013, 06:16 AM #15THe he351VE can easily support 500 HP on a Cummins turbodiesel. Controlled correctly, it should do you fine. This is a well done install. Just a small issue on TC lockup
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-0...-pics.html
Ed
I don't understand exactly what you want, but a well done VGT turbo control is a quite difficult task.To double this is a very great challange for everybody. I think to this you need very great experience. You should try after several hundredth. (although I do not know your experience)
I've seen various control on net tunning diesel forums and these sufficiently reveal the magnitude of the task. To make an actuator is such great task as to size a turbo. It's affect the work of the whole car.
(this "exaust brake" able to goes the car)
It's refer to Garett VGT, I don't know the Holset sytem (yet).
Offroaddieselhu
offroaddieselhu
07-17-2013, 07:52 AM #16Hi,
I don't understand exactly what you want, but a well done VGT turbo control is a quite difficult task.To double this is a very great challange for everybody. I think to this you need very great experience. You should try after several hundredth. (although I do not know your experience)
I've seen various control on net tunning diesel forums and these sufficiently reveal the magnitude of the task. To make an actuator is such great task as to size a turbo. It's affect the work of the whole car.
(this "exaust brake" able to goes the car)
It's refer to Garett VGT, I don't know the Holset sytem (yet).
Offroaddieselhu
But as of now I have neither of those luxurys
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Besides being hard to fit under the hood, I think compound chargers are largely overlooked in the std field. What's not to like? Quick spool and great top end? If I ever had the money (and time) that's what I would be doing.
But as of now I have neither of those luxurys
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Someone says that the hx40super would have got the same results, but the added behavior is not what I want. Target power is now 550-600hp with early spool and I think the HP target is achievable with a new 8mm pump. Now with the small 7mm 120cc pump the combo has shown it´s nature and thats why I want to improve the setup.
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
I've driven a number of STD configurations and the reason why I wanted to try a compound turbo setup was quick spool till the end. VNT / VGT charging might be certainly a good option for the right turbocharger, but the control is much more challenging than the two wastegate guidance if you want quick spool.
Someone says that the hx40super would have got the same results, but the added behavior is not what I want. Target power is now 550-600hp with early spool and I think the HP target is achievable with a new 8mm pump. Now with the small 7mm 120cc pump the combo has shown it´s nature and thats why I want to improve the setup.
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Video is coming...
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Dieselmeken 8mm with 220cc pump has arrived and installed. I have driven some adjusting and now it runs like HELL. Now it acts like CDI-engine reacts immediately to throttle pedal with no lag with a lot of power and it runs till the end very good. I couldn´t believe prechamber engine can react like that. Now there is 2.2bar intake manifold pressure and 1.0bar in bigger turbo.
Video is coming...
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
(10-11-2013, 05:42 AM)Triker Dieselmeken 8mm with 220cc pump has arrived and installed. I have driven some adjusting and now it runs like HELL. Now it acts like CDI-engine reacts immediately to throttle pedal with no lag with a lot of power and it runs till the end very good. I couldn´t believe prechamber engine can react like that. Now there is 2.2bar intake manifold pressure and 1.0bar in bigger turbo.
Video is coming...
Awesome
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(10-11-2013, 05:42 AM)Triker Dieselmeken 8mm with 220cc pump has arrived and installed. I have driven some adjusting and now it runs like HELL. Now it acts like CDI-engine reacts immediately to throttle pedal with no lag with a lot of power and it runs till the end very good. I couldn´t believe prechamber engine can react like that. Now there is 2.2bar intake manifold pressure and 1.0bar in bigger turbo.
Video is coming...
Awesome
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
http://youtu.be/uR-b-UJLwrU
Adjusting continues...
(sorry my bad english)
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Some adjusting video 80-180km/h in third gear(722.3 and 2.24diff). Need to low back preboost feed because it now stucks primary turbo´s turbine housing. The IP is great and I have to be careful not to boom the engine.
http://youtu.be/uR-b-UJLwrU
Adjusting continues...
(sorry my bad english)
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
I want to watch this video so badly but YouTube says its "private" and won't let me watch it!
P.s your English is better than most Americans!
(10-12-2013, 03:17 PM)Triker Some adjusting video 80-180km/h in third gear(722.3 and 2.24diff). Need to low back preboost feed because it now stucks primary turbo´s turbine housing. The IP is great and I have to be careful not to boom the engine.
http://youtu.be/uR-b-UJLwrU
Adjusting continues...
(sorry my bad english)
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Oh no!!
I want to watch this video so badly but YouTube says its "private" and won't let me watch it!
P.s your English is better than most Americans!
(10-12-2013, 03:17 PM)Triker Some adjusting video 80-180km/h in third gear(722.3 and 2.24diff). Need to low back preboost feed because it now stucks primary turbo´s turbine housing. The IP is great and I have to be careful not to boom the engine.
http://youtu.be/uR-b-UJLwrU
Adjusting continues...
(sorry my bad english)
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Now it should work.I did some adjusting again today.
A couple of rounds preboost feed lower and a couple of rounds boost feed higher and one rounds both wastegates tighter.
Now the preboost feed won´t stuck primary turbo´s turbine housing at pedal to the metal acceleration.
Sweet
Tried to film some video but it´s difficult to film with one hand and steer in other hand(I don´t have Gopro). I try to get someone to film also outside the car.
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Oops sorry Now it should work.
I did some adjusting again today.
A couple of rounds preboost feed lower and a couple of rounds boost feed higher and one rounds both wastegates tighter.
Now the preboost feed won´t stuck primary turbo´s turbine housing at pedal to the metal acceleration.
Sweet
Tried to film some video but it´s difficult to film with one hand and steer in other hand(I don´t have Gopro). I try to get someone to film also outside the car.
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Winter arrived to Finland and the Sec went to winter sleep. I reach to adjust it to work better with 2.2bar intake manifold pressure and 1.5 bar bigger turbo pressure and adjust the feed with and without the boost. It´s pretty difficult to adjust this setup with this 8mm pump but no impossible at all I can assure. So sad I couldn´t take it to dyno and adjust more because the damn snow. My goal was reach to 2.8-3.0bar intake manifold pressure and 2bar bigger turbo pressure with some minor smoke. Well now it´s time to make this setup better to next spring like Holley hp150 lift pump and better fuel filter bracket. It´s going to be Bosch fuel filter bracket with 14mm couplings and some more small modifications.I update this thread perhaps next spring next time but if someone wants to know more about the setup or else I follow this STD site.
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Yeah Winter arrived to Finland and the Sec went to winter sleep. I reach to adjust it to work better with 2.2bar intake manifold pressure and 1.5 bar bigger turbo pressure and adjust the feed with and without the boost. It´s pretty difficult to adjust this setup with this 8mm pump but no impossible at all I can assure. So sad I couldn´t take it to dyno and adjust more because the damn snow. My goal was reach to 2.8-3.0bar intake manifold pressure and 2bar bigger turbo pressure with some minor smoke. Well now it´s time to make this setup better to next spring like Holley hp150 lift pump and better fuel filter bracket. It´s going to be Bosch fuel filter bracket with 14mm couplings and some more small modifications.
I update this thread perhaps next spring next time but if someone wants to know more about the setup or else I follow this STD site.
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
10-17-2013, 02:22 PM #27No winter driving because of salt? I hate salted roads.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(10-17-2013, 02:22 PM)Simpler=Better No winter driving because of salt? I hate salted roads.
Here they salt the roads in winter and that mean slippery roads and winter tyres and that´s not what I wait for the grip for adjusting. I have studded tyres in my carage for SEC but I have experience that they won´t last long
and don´t give grip as much as tarmac. I´m sorry that I have only one poor adjusting video on this setup and I have moved it to private in "You tube" where setup worked a little bit poor because adjusting is quite exact. That film is not the best result what I have with this
Burnout videos looks great but won´t give as much information about the setup as acceleration videos of speedometer and pressure gauges. I have reached some good adjustment about the spool, WG and fuel adjustment but not enough yet. I have to make some(like I said in previous message) modification to next spring to get maximum fuel capacity what I could get out of this setup like the pressures I said or more. I think there is plenty of capacity of this to get very good HP(over 550hp to 600hp without nitro) with early spool. Turbos working great and gives plenty of air. I was hoping that my friend could arrive to film some video for present adjustment but he didn´t reach before snowI know someone says that "If there is no film that´s not true" but some Finns know me and if have decided to do it and the world won´t collapse, I DO IT
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
(10-17-2013, 02:22 PM)Simpler=Better No winter driving because of salt? I hate salted roads.
Here they salt the roads in winter and that mean slippery roads and winter tyres and that´s not what I wait for the grip for adjusting. I have studded tyres in my carage for SEC but I have experience that they won´t last long
and don´t give grip as much as tarmac. I´m sorry that I have only one poor adjusting video on this setup and I have moved it to private in "You tube" where setup worked a little bit poor because adjusting is quite exact. That film is not the best result what I have with this Burnout videos looks great but won´t give as much information about the setup as acceleration videos of speedometer and pressure gauges. I have reached some good adjustment about the spool, WG and fuel adjustment but not enough yet. I have to make some(like I said in previous message) modification to next spring to get maximum fuel capacity what I could get out of this setup like the pressures I said or more. I think there is plenty of capacity of this to get very good HP(over 550hp to 600hp without nitro) with early spool. Turbos working great and gives plenty of air. I was hoping that my friend could arrive to film some video for present adjustment but he didn´t reach before snowI know someone says that "If there is no film that´s not true" but some Finns know me and if have decided to do it and the world won´t collapse, I DO IT
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
It's not like you're selling it and claiming 500hp with no proof I feel for you with the salt. Back home my Brother's truck is only a 98 but needs constant major attention due to the crumbling everything
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
10-17-2013, 07:45 PM #29The photos speak for themselves It's not like you're selling it and claiming 500hp with no proof
I feel for you with the salt. Back home my Brother's truck is only a 98 but needs constant major attention due to the crumbling everything
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(07-17-2013, 06:16 AM)yankneck696 THe he351VE can easily support 500 HP on a Cummins turbodiesel. Controlled correctly, it should do you fine. This is a well done install. Just a small issue on TC lockup
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-0...-pics.html
Ed
I had OM606 with stock internals, 7mm 170cc IP and HE351VE, the best I got in dyno was just 402hp. I'd say it supports easily 350hp on these engines but for 400hp range it starts to make too much backpressure, and as a DI engine Cummins needs less air to make equal power. The spoolup wasn't that good either, not that big difference compared to HX40 super which is good for some 30-40hp more than 351.
(07-17-2013, 06:16 AM)yankneck696 THe he351VE can easily support 500 HP on a Cummins turbodiesel. Controlled correctly, it should do you fine. This is a well done install. Just a small issue on TC lockup
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-0...-pics.html
Ed
I had OM606 with stock internals, 7mm 170cc IP and HE351VE, the best I got in dyno was just 402hp. I'd say it supports easily 350hp on these engines but for 400hp range it starts to make too much backpressure, and as a DI engine Cummins needs less air to make equal power. The spoolup wasn't that good either, not that big difference compared to HX40 super which is good for some 30-40hp more than 351.
(10-18-2013, 03:36 PM)mantahead is video still not working?
nice project, by the way.
Not anymore. I let it be viewed a few days and everyone who wanted to see that small adjusting video has seen it
Like I said it was only a small clip of unfinished adjusting and testing and it didn´t give the best image about the setup yet.
There are plenty of people who disagree about the compound turbos and I want to show to them that they are wrong with video of high performance and early spool compound setup next spring when here is tarmac again
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
(10-18-2013, 03:36 PM)mantahead is video still not working?
nice project, by the way.
Not anymore. I let it be viewed a few days and everyone who wanted to see that small adjusting video has seen it
Like I said it was only a small clip of unfinished adjusting and testing and it didn´t give the best image about the setup yet.
There are plenty of people who disagree about the compound turbos and I want to show to them that they are wrong with video of high performance and early spool compound setup next spring when here is tarmac again
S210 320CDI
W140 S300DT
EX: C126 om606 compound "300STC
(10-19-2013, 05:16 AM)muuris(10-18-2013, 09:49 PM)MFSuper90 What did you do to control the he351ve?
I got rid of the original actuator and used egp and boost to control it. Basically egp pushes vane ring to open-position naturally.
There is a fellow on 4btswaps that made a electronic controller to control the 351 with the original actuator, pretty neat, I think it would help spool and top end power compared to EGP/boost.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(10-19-2013, 05:16 AM)muuris(10-18-2013, 09:49 PM)MFSuper90 What did you do to control the he351ve?
I got rid of the original actuator and used egp and boost to control it. Basically egp pushes vane ring to open-position naturally.
There is a fellow on 4btswaps that made a electronic controller to control the 351 with the original actuator, pretty neat, I think it would help spool and top end power compared to EGP/boost.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I have a hx35 with a 12 cm housing and a k29 with a 20 cm housing both are split exhaust housing. I have been thinking of using them in a compound setup but only using half of the hx35 split housing. I would use a 50 or 60 mm wastegate to bleed of the exhaust to the second side of the k29. Just trying to get more power with less smoke.
What size is a k29? I know a k31 is 71mm inducer, never heard much about a k29
(10-19-2013, 07:43 AM)MFSuper90(10-19-2013, 05:16 AM)muuris(10-18-2013, 09:49 PM)MFSuper90 What did you do to control the he351ve?
I got rid of the original actuator and used egp and boost to control it. Basically egp pushes vane ring to open-position naturally.
There is a fellow on 4btswaps that made a electronic controller to control the 351 with the original actuator, pretty neat, I think it would help spool and top end power compared to EGP/boost.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Those are Both pretty large chargers if your going to daily drive it, definitely wouldn't cut down on smoke because they wouldn't come into boost until late in the rpms.
What size is a k29? I know a k31 is 71mm inducer, never heard much about a k29
(10-19-2013, 07:43 AM)MFSuper90(10-19-2013, 05:16 AM)muuris(10-18-2013, 09:49 PM)MFSuper90 What did you do to control the he351ve?
I got rid of the original actuator and used egp and boost to control it. Basically egp pushes vane ring to open-position naturally.
There is a fellow on 4btswaps that made a electronic controller to control the 351 with the original actuator, pretty neat, I think it would help spool and top end power compared to EGP/boost.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
The k29 flows 65lbs of air so it is good for 650 hp. Not sure on the size out of town will measure it when I gr back . The hx 35 is only good for 300 hp before it is being pushed to hard.
The hx 35 boosts real good with a 12 cm housing I get 5 lbs at 2000 with using both sides of the exhaust housings. I figure I can double that if I only use one side of the 12cm housing.
The k29 flows 65lbs of air so it is good for 650 hp. Not sure on the size out of town will measure it when I gr back . The hx 35 is only good for 300 hp before it is being pushed to hard.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
The hx35 is 56mm inlet, and a what little research I did the k29 is ~47? But the turbine wheel is massive, and would probably outflow a hx35. So if those specs are right, a k29 is no bueno for twins
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I am not sure but this looks like my turbo but I think my exhaust is a t6 with a 20 cm exhaust. I will be home after the fuirst of the year and will get measurements to confirm.
http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-k29-3775-fmw/
I am not sure but this looks like my turbo but I think my exhaust is a t6 with a 20 cm exhaust. I will be home after the fuirst of the year and will get measurements to confirm.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
If those specs are correct from agp, it wouldn't be too bad. But it'll still be a smoke screen until that 35 lights. A hx35 for a low pressure and something like a hx30 or he221 for high would make a very nice spooling set of compounds in my opinion.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(10-19-2013, 07:43 AM)MFSuper90(10-19-2013, 05:16 AM)muuris(10-18-2013, 09:49 PM)MFSuper90 What did you do to control the he351ve?
I got rid of the original actuator and used egp and boost to control it. Basically egp pushes vane ring to open-position naturally.
There is a fellow on 4btswaps that made a electronic controller to control the 351 with the original actuator, pretty neat, I think it would help spool and top end power compared to EGP/boost.
The turbo doesn't know how high tech the control mechanism is. I used an external spring to get the boost/egp ratio I wanted, a stopper screw to set vane ring closed-position and boost control ensured that vanes are fully open on full power. I tried several springs before I got the best result. Spoolup is bad if egp is much higher or lower than boost, it has to be in correlation and about 0,4bar higher on low end, about the same at midrange and even external wastegate couldn't help egp going too high at top end near 400hp. At 350 it worked ok. Original actuator couldn't have opened the vanes furher, so it wouldn't have helped.
(10-19-2013, 07:43 AM)MFSuper90(10-19-2013, 05:16 AM)muuris(10-18-2013, 09:49 PM)MFSuper90 What did you do to control the he351ve?
I got rid of the original actuator and used egp and boost to control it. Basically egp pushes vane ring to open-position naturally.
There is a fellow on 4btswaps that made a electronic controller to control the 351 with the original actuator, pretty neat, I think it would help spool and top end power compared to EGP/boost.
The turbo doesn't know how high tech the control mechanism is. I used an external spring to get the boost/egp ratio I wanted, a stopper screw to set vane ring closed-position and boost control ensured that vanes are fully open on full power. I tried several springs before I got the best result. Spoolup is bad if egp is much higher or lower than boost, it has to be in correlation and about 0,4bar higher on low end, about the same at midrange and even external wastegate couldn't help egp going too high at top end near 400hp. At 350 it worked ok. Original actuator couldn't have opened the vanes furher, so it wouldn't have helped.
(12-29-2013, 03:18 AM)erling66 To anyone who consider a VGT turbo for a high power setup:
Take a look inside the exhaust house and ask yourself, do I think all this exhaust flow restriction will help high end power?
I would be careful to make that kind of statement, I guess that BMW 550D engine is not a high end power for you then?
(12-29-2013, 03:18 AM)erling66 To anyone who consider a VGT turbo for a high power setup:
Take a look inside the exhaust house and ask yourself, do I think all this exhaust flow restriction will help high end power?
Its only logical that the "restriction" that you're referring to won't be an issue.
Others here probably use similar logic when researching and discussing their own projects.
Are there specific VGT set ups that you know should be avoided? If so, please share!
(12-29-2013, 03:18 AM)erling66 To anyone who consider a VGT turbo for a high power setup:
Take a look inside the exhaust house and ask yourself, do I think all this exhaust flow restriction will help high end power?
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
The HE351VE that I'm planning to use on my 3.0L is from a 6.7L turbodiesel.
Its only logical that the "restriction" that you're referring to won't be an issue.
Others here probably use similar logic when researching and discussing their own projects.
Are there specific VGT set ups that you know should be avoided? If so, please share!
(12-29-2013, 03:18 AM)erling66 To anyone who consider a VGT turbo for a high power setup:
Take a look inside the exhaust house and ask yourself, do I think all this exhaust flow restriction will help high end power?
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
(12-29-2013, 10:31 AM)CRD4x4 The HE351VE that I'm planning to use on my 3.0L is from a 6.7L turbodiesel.
Its only logical that the "restriction" that you're referring to won't be an issue.
Others here probably use similar logic when researching and discussing their own projects.
Are there specific VGT set ups that you know should be avoided? If so, please share!
(12-29-2013, 03:18 AM)erling66 To anyone who consider a VGT turbo for a high power setup:
Take a look inside the exhaust house and ask yourself, do I think all this exhaust flow restriction will help high end power?
simply use a newer version of the VNT, VGT and it work better, but if you did not understand turbo machinery it can be very wrong and then it is called just bad turbo to much back pressure in my experience, but what do I know...
(12-29-2013, 10:31 AM)CRD4x4 The HE351VE that I'm planning to use on my 3.0L is from a 6.7L turbodiesel.
Its only logical that the "restriction" that you're referring to won't be an issue.
Others here probably use similar logic when researching and discussing their own projects.
Are there specific VGT set ups that you know should be avoided? If so, please share!
(12-29-2013, 03:18 AM)erling66 To anyone who consider a VGT turbo for a high power setup:
Take a look inside the exhaust house and ask yourself, do I think all this exhaust flow restriction will help high end power?
To quote Jeemu " no VGT goes on any of my cars" I wonder why if they are so great
The BMW 550D was an interesting read. Thanks for the tip "Turbo"
A statement is an opinion and not necessarily a fact, but I did not make any statement, just a question so people could think for themselves
To quote Jeemu " no VGT goes on any of my cars" I wonder why if they are so great
The BMW 550D was an interesting read. Thanks for the tip "Turbo"
(12-29-2013, 10:31 AM)CRD4x4 The HE351VE that I'm planning to use on my 3.0L is from a 6.7L turbodiesel.
Its only logical that the "restriction" that you're referring to won't be an issue.
Others here probably use similar logic when researching and discussing their own projects.
Are there specific VGT set ups that you know should be avoided? If so, please share!
A fellow on 4btswaps by the name of steed made a very nice programmer for the 351ve. He can program it to fit your needs, and you can manually control the vanes in the turbo with a potentiometer. Pretty cool if you ask me
Edit: I forgot to mention he builds several of them and sells them to people
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(12-29-2013, 10:31 AM)CRD4x4 The HE351VE that I'm planning to use on my 3.0L is from a 6.7L turbodiesel.
Its only logical that the "restriction" that you're referring to won't be an issue.
Others here probably use similar logic when researching and discussing their own projects.
Are there specific VGT set ups that you know should be avoided? If so, please share!
A fellow on 4btswaps by the name of steed made a very nice programmer for the 351ve. He can program it to fit your needs, and you can manually control the vanes in the turbo with a potentiometer. Pretty cool if you ask me
Edit: I forgot to mention he builds several of them and sells them to people
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
this is not as bad as well
http://turbo.honeywell.com/whats-new-in-...t-le-mans/
the GTB2260VKLR can make somem nice things as well as the
GTB3576KLNRV turbo
Jeemu possesses decisiveness to put things together, perhaps turbomachinery is not his strongest ability...
this is not as bad as well
http://turbo.honeywell.com/whats-new-in-...t-le-mans/
the GTB2260VKLR can make somem nice things as well as the
GTB3576KLNRV turbo
(12-29-2013, 06:13 AM)Turbo I would be careful to make that kind of statement, I guess that BMW 550D engine is not a high end power for you then?
Variable chargers obviously perform very well in both lower and high power engines. They are the basis for most modern diesel engines but to use a 550D as an example? It has three turbos and the large one isn't variable.
The TDV6 with their twin turbos still only have one of them being variable with the other high power turbo being normal fixed geometry. Its always the smaller turbo that is variable as well.
Like I said I think they are great turbos but I do also think there is a possibility for a restriction to be there. If there was an advantage to using a large variable turbo or all variable in a sequential system I am pretty sure manufacturers would do so.
(12-29-2013, 06:13 AM)Turbo I would be careful to make that kind of statement, I guess that BMW 550D engine is not a high end power for you then?
Variable chargers obviously perform very well in both lower and high power engines. They are the basis for most modern diesel engines but to use a 550D as an example? It has three turbos and the large one isn't variable.
The TDV6 with their twin turbos still only have one of them being variable with the other high power turbo being normal fixed geometry. Its always the smaller turbo that is variable as well.
Like I said I think they are great turbos but I do also think there is a possibility for a restriction to be there. If there was an advantage to using a large variable turbo or all variable in a sequential system I am pretty sure manufacturers would do so.
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