M fuel pump capabilities and adjustment
M fuel pump capabilities and adjustment
I'm exploring options for more power. Most obvious is to throw the pump in the bin and get a modified pump from dieselmeken. I do think I need to get a feel for adjusting this one first, max it out before I replace it. Currently it runs so clean you wouldn't know it was a diesel.
So question #1: How much power can a 5 cylinder M pump with 5.5mm elements support at the crankshaft? Bosch documentation says about 25hp per cylinder.
Question #2: Is there a definitive guide available to how the governor in the M pump works or how to adjust it for max performance in such a way that still lets it return to idle when you lift off the throttle?
So far all the information I have come across is really for the MW pump and the M-pump information is either contradicting, missing pictures to explain which part they're talking about or just flat out wrong. Lots of mention of a rack limiter which the M pump doesn't have (the full load screw affects everything, not just max rack travel), throttle stops not found on the M pump and conflicting info on idle control (Surprise, all 5 screws on the back affect the idle, none of the guides mention that fact).
Everyone seems to know that the pumps won't return to idle if you touch any of the 5 screws on the back, but I have not come across a definitive answer of how to fix that while still retaining any kind of performance.
Question #3: can an MW pump be fitted as a drop-in replacement for the M pump?
Baldur Gislason
I have an OM662 (SSangYong) with an STT turbo kit. It has an M pump with the vacuum operated fast idle and no ELD, stock 5.5mm elements. (pump picture: http://i.imgur.com/VJfjrFV.jpg)
I'm exploring options for more power. Most obvious is to throw the pump in the bin and get a modified pump from dieselmeken. I do think I need to get a feel for adjusting this one first, max it out before I replace it. Currently it runs so clean you wouldn't know it was a diesel.
So question #1: How much power can a 5 cylinder M pump with 5.5mm elements support at the crankshaft? Bosch documentation says about 25hp per cylinder.
Question #2: Is there a definitive guide available to how the governor in the M pump works or how to adjust it for max performance in such a way that still lets it return to idle when you lift off the throttle?
So far all the information I have come across is really for the MW pump and the M-pump information is either contradicting, missing pictures to explain which part they're talking about or just flat out wrong. Lots of mention of a rack limiter which the M pump doesn't have (the full load screw affects everything, not just max rack travel), throttle stops not found on the M pump and conflicting info on idle control (Surprise, all 5 screws on the back affect the idle, none of the guides mention that fact).
Everyone seems to know that the pumps won't return to idle if you touch any of the 5 screws on the back, but I have not come across a definitive answer of how to fix that while still retaining any kind of performance.
Question #3: can an MW pump be fitted as a drop-in replacement for the M pump?
Baldur Gislason
(12-07-2013, 04:07 PM)baldur Question #2: Is there a definitive guide available to how the governor in the M pump works or how to adjust it for max performance in such a way that still lets it return to idle when you lift off the throttle?
You will not find a good explanation of how the RSF governor works, and how the adjustments affect each other. You are very correct that the M pump (RSF Governor) information that is out there is not correct.
I have not spent any time with the RSF Governor, (personally I do not care for it), but speaking in general, the engine's lack of a return to idle is caused by too much throttle pressure at the idle position, meaning that the throttle is controlling more of the idle than the Idle Governor is. The Throttle dose not modulate with engine speed like the Idle Governor does, so with too much Throttle in the mix, engine will not idle down.
In this instance, the throttle needs to be backed off, and the Idle Governor turned up, (decreasing the Throttle input and increasing the Idle Governor input so the Idle governor is in more control of the speed when the throttle is in the idle position.
I have no idea how to adjust the RSF governor to accomplish this but that is the jist of what needs to happen.
I am also not sure if the RSF governor as a Idle Governor Bump Stop Spring like the RW Governor does. If it does, there may be a need to back it off a touch as well, but again, I am not familiar with the RSF governor specifically.
(12-07-2013, 04:07 PM)baldur Question #3: can an MW pump be fitted as a drop-in replacement for the M pump?
I do not know why not, but you will need to fashion an oil feed line to feed the MW pump with oil. The MW/RW pump/governor look to be bulkier than the M/RSF Pump/Governor, so I would question if there is room around the pump for the MW.
(12-07-2013, 04:07 PM)baldur Question #2: Is there a definitive guide available to how the governor in the M pump works or how to adjust it for max performance in such a way that still lets it return to idle when you lift off the throttle?
You will not find a good explanation of how the RSF governor works, and how the adjustments affect each other. You are very correct that the M pump (RSF Governor) information that is out there is not correct.
I have not spent any time with the RSF Governor, (personally I do not care for it), but speaking in general, the engine's lack of a return to idle is caused by too much throttle pressure at the idle position, meaning that the throttle is controlling more of the idle than the Idle Governor is. The Throttle dose not modulate with engine speed like the Idle Governor does, so with too much Throttle in the mix, engine will not idle down.
In this instance, the throttle needs to be backed off, and the Idle Governor turned up, (decreasing the Throttle input and increasing the Idle Governor input so the Idle governor is in more control of the speed when the throttle is in the idle position.
I have no idea how to adjust the RSF governor to accomplish this but that is the jist of what needs to happen.
I am also not sure if the RSF governor as a Idle Governor Bump Stop Spring like the RW Governor does. If it does, there may be a need to back it off a touch as well, but again, I am not familiar with the RSF governor specifically.
(12-07-2013, 04:07 PM)baldur Question #3: can an MW pump be fitted as a drop-in replacement for the M pump?
I do not know why not, but you will need to fashion an oil feed line to feed the MW pump with oil. The MW/RW pump/governor look to be bulkier than the M/RSF Pump/Governor, so I would question if there is room around the pump for the MW.
What settings are there for minimum throttle on the M pump? The linkage returns as far as the lever wants to go, I can't tell if there's a screw somewhere that I'm missing.
Baldur Gislason
I was just thinking if I can get my hands on an MW pump off a turbo 605 or something that might be a worthwhile upgrade since Bosch rates the MW pump up to 50hp per cylinder while the M pump is only rated to 25hp per cylinder in the Bosch literature.
What settings are there for minimum throttle on the M pump? The linkage returns as far as the lever wants to go, I can't tell if there's a screw somewhere that I'm missing.
Baldur Gislason
(12-09-2013, 05:22 PM)baldur I was just thinking if I can get my hands on an MW pump off a turbo 605 or something that might be a worthwhile upgrade since Bosch rates the MW pump up to 50hp per cylinder while the M pump is only rated to 25hp per cylinder in the Bosch literature.
What settings are there for minimum throttle on the M pump? The linkage returns as far as the lever wants to go, I can't tell if there's a screw somewhere that I'm missing.
Personally I recommend contacting Dieselmeken... He seems like a good guy and may be willing to provide you with the info you need for the M pump. I can only speak intelligently about MW/RW pump/governor adjustements.
(12-09-2013, 05:22 PM)baldur I was just thinking if I can get my hands on an MW pump off a turbo 605 or something that might be a worthwhile upgrade since Bosch rates the MW pump up to 50hp per cylinder while the M pump is only rated to 25hp per cylinder in the Bosch literature.
What settings are there for minimum throttle on the M pump? The linkage returns as far as the lever wants to go, I can't tell if there's a screw somewhere that I'm missing.
Personally I recommend contacting Dieselmeken... He seems like a good guy and may be willing to provide you with the info you need for the M pump. I can only speak intelligently about MW/RW pump/governor adjustements.
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