606A in W460 Gelandewagen
606A in W460 Gelandewagen
I picked up a 606A on one of the forums as the new engine for my project truck, and am underway with a new cooling and oil system (G-specific deep-sump oil pan, etc.) but now I'm getting into the tricky parts.
I have an IP from a 603 already installed, retaining the stock 5.5mm elements. I plan on dialing the pump up and then backing off once I get it cranked.
But the hard part is getting rid of the electronically-controlled wastegate of the stock turbo. My solution has been to purchase a different turbo altogether, a rebuilt Garrett T3 (as was found stock on the OM603 turbo) but upgraded with a Volvo truck cold side (57mm inlet) and T04 internals (dual blade). The manual waste gate on the rebuilt turbo is set at 12psi, where I've read numerous times I'd need a manual wastegate to be set for the 606.
I now need to find either a performance header or custom make one to accept the hot side of the turbo, and I'll need custom exhaust for the dump end.
But in the mean time (as this is my first foirer into turbos) I'm still trying to figure out how this is going to work best. I know I'll have a better flow rate with the larger turbo (cold side, at least) when paired with 3" tubes coming from my Donaldson air cleaner, but I'm also aware I'll be losing some low-end boost as result of the turbo size difference. Honestly I'm fine with this because I am slightly worried about the gearbox (Getrag 717.439, 5-speed with .799 5th, as found in the W461 and W463 Gelandewagens) and transfer case (VG-80 as found stock on all W460 Gelandewagens) I have for this project being able to handle the torque from the more powerful 606 (VG80 and 717.439 were both mounted up to the 603 in the G-class, but they saw a maximum of 145hp and 180 ft-lbs torque). I do have an intercooler, so I've got that going for me.
Now I'm just trying to figure out how to get everything to play nicely with one another.
Australian G forums have shown a couple 606-powered W460s achieving "mid 30's" mpg... which I find to be astonishing. My goals are cool operating temperatures, longevity and good mpgs... I wish I could say I was interested in building a monster, but I'll be fine with about 160hp / 220 ft-lbs.
Any thoughts, ideas, things I haven't thought of are greatly appreciated!
1980 Mercedes Benz 300GD (Gelandewagen)
OM617 n/a
4-speed manual
Front/Rear hydraulic lockers
All right guys, it's game time to get more serious about the mechanicals regarding my engine swap.
I picked up a 606A on one of the forums as the new engine for my project truck, and am underway with a new cooling and oil system (G-specific deep-sump oil pan, etc.) but now I'm getting into the tricky parts.
I have an IP from a 603 already installed, retaining the stock 5.5mm elements. I plan on dialing the pump up and then backing off once I get it cranked.
But the hard part is getting rid of the electronically-controlled wastegate of the stock turbo. My solution has been to purchase a different turbo altogether, a rebuilt Garrett T3 (as was found stock on the OM603 turbo) but upgraded with a Volvo truck cold side (57mm inlet) and T04 internals (dual blade). The manual waste gate on the rebuilt turbo is set at 12psi, where I've read numerous times I'd need a manual wastegate to be set for the 606.
I now need to find either a performance header or custom make one to accept the hot side of the turbo, and I'll need custom exhaust for the dump end.
But in the mean time (as this is my first foirer into turbos) I'm still trying to figure out how this is going to work best. I know I'll have a better flow rate with the larger turbo (cold side, at least) when paired with 3" tubes coming from my Donaldson air cleaner, but I'm also aware I'll be losing some low-end boost as result of the turbo size difference. Honestly I'm fine with this because I am slightly worried about the gearbox (Getrag 717.439, 5-speed with .799 5th, as found in the W461 and W463 Gelandewagens) and transfer case (VG-80 as found stock on all W460 Gelandewagens) I have for this project being able to handle the torque from the more powerful 606 (VG80 and 717.439 were both mounted up to the 603 in the G-class, but they saw a maximum of 145hp and 180 ft-lbs torque). I do have an intercooler, so I've got that going for me.
Now I'm just trying to figure out how to get everything to play nicely with one another.
Australian G forums have shown a couple 606-powered W460s achieving "mid 30's" mpg... which I find to be astonishing. My goals are cool operating temperatures, longevity and good mpgs... I wish I could say I was interested in building a monster, but I'll be fine with about 160hp / 220 ft-lbs.
Any thoughts, ideas, things I haven't thought of are greatly appreciated!
1980 Mercedes Benz 300GD (Gelandewagen)
OM617 n/a
4-speed manual
Front/Rear hydraulic lockers
He also had the 603 pump with the stock elements, it was in a 463 but I drove it and it went really good. If you choose to go with a different turbo the are a couple choices from overseas that already make manifolds. Turbobandit http://www.turbobandit.com/shop/ and http://www.kkdmotorsport.com with KKD probably being the better choice or just get an adapter for the stock manifold.
You should contact Titus on pointedthree or clubgwagen, he used the original turbo and just added a wastegate. http://www.pointedthree.com/disc/forums/...06&start=1
He also had the 603 pump with the stock elements, it was in a 463 but I drove it and it went really good. If you choose to go with a different turbo the are a couple choices from overseas that already make manifolds. Turbobandit http://www.turbobandit.com/shop/ and http://www.kkdmotorsport.com with KKD probably being the better choice or just get an adapter for the stock manifold.
I purchased the Garrett T3 because I couldn't find anywhere how to retrofit a manual wastegate to the stock KKK turbo. I'll see if I can get in touch with him!
1980 Mercedes Benz 300GD (Gelandewagen)
OM617 n/a
4-speed manual
Front/Rear hydraulic lockers
Kmaser, thank you so much!
I purchased the Garrett T3 because I couldn't find anywhere how to retrofit a manual wastegate to the stock KKK turbo. I'll see if I can get in touch with him!
1980 Mercedes Benz 300GD (Gelandewagen)
OM617 n/a
4-speed manual
Front/Rear hydraulic lockers
(12-30-2013, 01:39 PM)Suppatime Kmaser, thank you so much!
I purchased the Garrett T3 because I couldn't find anywhere how to retrofit a manual wastegate to the stock KKK turbo. I'll see if I can get in touch with him!
hi drew, you have asked all these questions on clubgwagen and you have had them answered.
i have converted over 10 g wagens to 606/605/662a spec engines all using the manual boxes from merc / some are 6 speed manual and some are the five speed you have got / all of them drive through the vgo 80 transfer case / all the engines i use have got the 6mm elements with some turning up of the settings with 12 psi of boost / i converted the kkk to a pressure operated w/g actuator /all i did was cut up the old vac operated unit's bracket and make a new bracket to carry the pressure operated unit and i then made sure it lined up with the w/g lever and extended the push rod to reach it / finally i test the unit with a low pressure regulator to make sure it operates correctly .
please stop obsessing about your gearboxes /we tow big trailers / drive our g's really hard and have had ZERO failures with any part of the drivetrain.
the g wagens on the aussie site i have helped with (ozgee and mbz460 etc) so i have done my share and can speak with a little bit of experience / you will be running with reduced power and torque so you will be fine / so move on from the fussing over your gearboxes. our g wagen 460's light up the back tyres easily -so relax and get on with the job you are fussing over a situation that you will not have a problem with.
(12-30-2013, 01:39 PM)Suppatime Kmaser, thank you so much!
I purchased the Garrett T3 because I couldn't find anywhere how to retrofit a manual wastegate to the stock KKK turbo. I'll see if I can get in touch with him!
hi drew, you have asked all these questions on clubgwagen and you have had them answered.
i have converted over 10 g wagens to 606/605/662a spec engines all using the manual boxes from merc / some are 6 speed manual and some are the five speed you have got / all of them drive through the vgo 80 transfer case / all the engines i use have got the 6mm elements with some turning up of the settings with 12 psi of boost / i converted the kkk to a pressure operated w/g actuator /all i did was cut up the old vac operated unit's bracket and make a new bracket to carry the pressure operated unit and i then made sure it lined up with the w/g lever and extended the push rod to reach it / finally i test the unit with a low pressure regulator to make sure it operates correctly .
please stop obsessing about your gearboxes /we tow big trailers / drive our g's really hard and have had ZERO failures with any part of the drivetrain.
the g wagens on the aussie site i have helped with (ozgee and mbz460 etc) so i have done my share and can speak with a little bit of experience / you will be running with reduced power and torque so you will be fine / so move on from the fussing over your gearboxes. our g wagen 460's light up the back tyres easily -so relax and get on with the job you are fussing over a situation that you will not have a problem with.
I know you're frustrated with me because of all my questions, but know this is the first serious swap I've done (also first diesel, and first turbo), so please bear with me when asking redundant questions to new sources. Honestly, after knowing what has happened there in the UK, I didn't want to bother you further with any other questions, except for maybe when I get the thing fitted to send you a picture and ask if the engine positioning is correct.
Thanks to your expertise, I'm aware:
- the VG80 will be suitable for the job and will likely have to cut and weld the cardan shaft to fit the added length of engine/transmission
- the W461 clutch and dual-mass flywheel will work for my transmission and are overbuilt so will handle the added torque
- it's a very good idea to get the G-specific oil pan that mounts to the 603/606 engines and the oil hardware accordingly
But the hurdle I can't seem to find the answer to is how to swap the wastegate on the stock KKK to a pressure-operated one, hence my question here.
1980 Mercedes Benz 300GD (Gelandewagen)
OM617 n/a
4-speed manual
Front/Rear hydraulic lockers
Hello Mike!
I know you're frustrated with me because of all my questions, but know this is the first serious swap I've done (also first diesel, and first turbo), so please bear with me when asking redundant questions to new sources. Honestly, after knowing what has happened there in the UK, I didn't want to bother you further with any other questions, except for maybe when I get the thing fitted to send you a picture and ask if the engine positioning is correct.
Thanks to your expertise, I'm aware:
- the VG80 will be suitable for the job and will likely have to cut and weld the cardan shaft to fit the added length of engine/transmission
- the W461 clutch and dual-mass flywheel will work for my transmission and are overbuilt so will handle the added torque
- it's a very good idea to get the G-specific oil pan that mounts to the 603/606 engines and the oil hardware accordingly
But the hurdle I can't seem to find the answer to is how to swap the wastegate on the stock KKK to a pressure-operated one, hence my question here.
1980 Mercedes Benz 300GD (Gelandewagen)
OM617 n/a
4-speed manual
Front/Rear hydraulic lockers
4 Guest(s)
4 Guest(s)