Chop top TD
Chop top TD
I want to convert my Blue 300TD to a truck/convertible. I will most likely be parting it out later, and there aren't many parts to be salvaged from the roof, so I don't see a major potential to destroy any sellable parts in the process.
I would make the cuts on the body right along the line below the windows all around. The only vehicle metal that would remain above the line would be the A-pillar for the windshield and the small triangles on the doors to keep the side view mirrors intact.
I know that some may be offended by my plot to chop top a Benz, but I assure you that this car has been very used and somewhat abused in the past and I would like to try out this idea as an attempt to possibly give it a new lease on life.
I do have two areas of concern though. I am slightly worried about structural rigidity around the doors. I don't the car to bend in half. I am also worried about the windshield being supported enough without the roof behind it.
What do you think? Sounds interesting huh?
As many of you may have already read, I'm ready to let go of my Mercedes. Though before I do, I had a crazy idea that I just might do.
I want to convert my Blue 300TD to a truck/convertible. I will most likely be parting it out later, and there aren't many parts to be salvaged from the roof, so I don't see a major potential to destroy any sellable parts in the process.
I would make the cuts on the body right along the line below the windows all around. The only vehicle metal that would remain above the line would be the A-pillar for the windshield and the small triangles on the doors to keep the side view mirrors intact.
I know that some may be offended by my plot to chop top a Benz, but I assure you that this car has been very used and somewhat abused in the past and I would like to try out this idea as an attempt to possibly give it a new lease on life.
I do have two areas of concern though. I am slightly worried about structural rigidity around the doors. I don't the car to bend in half. I am also worried about the windshield being supported enough without the roof behind it.
What do you think? Sounds interesting huh?
Put a full roll cage in it. No structure problems then! While you're at it back-half it and drop in a big block. That would definitely give it a new lease on life.
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
As long as you don't cut up the hatch and the TD specific rear doors, I guess I wouldn't be too sad.
Put a full roll cage in it. No structure problems then! While you're at it back-half it and drop in a big block. That would definitely give it a new lease on life.
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
ForcedInduction
09-01-2009, 07:53 PM
#3
Weld the door frames closed for structural support. Use rear sedan doors so you don't kill a set of wagon doors.
Forced, are you saying to weld the doors shut, or to weld up the hole left in the remainder of the columns? I really don't want to lose the use of opening doors.
The doors and hatch are all in pretty poor condition. I will not be tearing up valuable parts, they are beginning to rust in places and have plenty of dents and scrapes. Don't worry.
How much do you think a very basic cage would run? I want to keep it cheap and don't have a steel tube bender.
Forced, are you saying to weld the doors shut, or to weld up the hole left in the remainder of the columns? I really don't want to lose the use of opening doors.
The doors and hatch are all in pretty poor condition. I will not be tearing up valuable parts, they are beginning to rust in places and have plenty of dents and scrapes. Don't worry.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-01-2009, 08:42 PM #5if you cut the top off with out adding some frame snifters and or welding up the doors it will fold in half! like an accordion
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
(09-01-2009, 07:54 PM)IsaacDW Forced, are you saying to weld the doors shut, or to weld up the hole left in the remainder of the columns? I really don't want to lose the use of opening doors.
I meant weld the doors to the body. The roof is a major structural component, like the top of a trapezoid.
ForcedInduction
09-01-2009, 10:44 PM
#6
(09-01-2009, 07:54 PM)IsaacDW Forced, are you saying to weld the doors shut, or to weld up the hole left in the remainder of the columns? I really don't want to lose the use of opening doors.
I meant weld the doors to the body. The roof is a major structural component, like the top of a trapezoid.
I would leave only the pillars, cross beams between pillars, and edges of the roof along the sides.
It would look like a VERY interesting roll cage, but still allow the open design that I am hoping to achieve.
There would certainly be some work to do the make it look nice and deal with rough/ugly surfaces.
Would cutting the roof in such a way as to leave just enough metal to strengthen the body be a good compromise?
I would leave only the pillars, cross beams between pillars, and edges of the roof along the sides.
It would look like a VERY interesting roll cage, but still allow the open design that I am hoping to achieve.
There would certainly be some work to do the make it look nice and deal with rough/ugly surfaces.
(09-01-2009, 07:54 PM)IsaacDW How much do you think a very basic cage would run? I want to keep it cheap and don't have a steel tube bender.
I did something similar to one my Jeep Cherokees back in the day after I rolled it... a six point cage will run you about a grand, depending on your location and if you find a race shop that has nothing else better to do and is bored with run-of-the-mill builds. I paid $750 back in 1999 in Orlando, FL and the thing was fukkin sweet. 2" dia .125" wall chromoly steel tube. I have pics somewhere, but they are likely in storage and will take some time to drum up.
I would strongly recommend leaving the roof over the front seats at a minimum, you could also potentially just cut the back half off the roof first and then the rest later after you reinforce it. This would also allow you to keep those wagon doors unmolested. They may have issues, but they are still much rarer than sedan doors and someone may have use for them later... no matter what, you're gonna prolly end up cutting the hatch tho, unless you make a custom tailgate (prolly better in the long run anyway since you will be able to fold it down and not have to figure out a way to attach the old one.
One the Cherokee, there were 'ribs' that strengthened the roof, I am unsure if the 123 has those or not, but after you peel back the headliner you would see them.
Another thing to look into is the 'legality' of this project. In FL, I never even got a sideways glance from the cops, even while driving it sans windshield over to the glass shop to have it replaced after I initially cut the roof (and I passed a TON of cop on that trip as well...only about a 10 mile trip but I they must have been preparing for a sting op as I passed about 30 patrol cars en route) In VA however, I got hassled several times but after they checked out the roll cage, they let me go...but it was time consuming each time.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
09-02-2009, 12:22 AM #8(09-01-2009, 07:54 PM)IsaacDW How much do you think a very basic cage would run? I want to keep it cheap and don't have a steel tube bender.
I did something similar to one my Jeep Cherokees back in the day after I rolled it... a six point cage will run you about a grand, depending on your location and if you find a race shop that has nothing else better to do and is bored with run-of-the-mill builds. I paid $750 back in 1999 in Orlando, FL and the thing was fukkin sweet. 2" dia .125" wall chromoly steel tube. I have pics somewhere, but they are likely in storage and will take some time to drum up.
I would strongly recommend leaving the roof over the front seats at a minimum, you could also potentially just cut the back half off the roof first and then the rest later after you reinforce it. This would also allow you to keep those wagon doors unmolested. They may have issues, but they are still much rarer than sedan doors and someone may have use for them later... no matter what, you're gonna prolly end up cutting the hatch tho, unless you make a custom tailgate (prolly better in the long run anyway since you will be able to fold it down and not have to figure out a way to attach the old one.
One the Cherokee, there were 'ribs' that strengthened the roof, I am unsure if the 123 has those or not, but after you peel back the headliner you would see them.
Another thing to look into is the 'legality' of this project. In FL, I never even got a sideways glance from the cops, even while driving it sans windshield over to the glass shop to have it replaced after I initially cut the roof (and I passed a TON of cop on that trip as well...only about a 10 mile trip but I they must have been preparing for a sting op as I passed about 30 patrol cars en route) In VA however, I got hassled several times but after they checked out the roll cage, they let me go...but it was time consuming each time.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
Surf, you are recommending to cut only the roof from behind the rear doors. I would leave the pillar behind the door frame, only cutting the roof, hatch and hatch pillars. I just want to make sure I understood you correctly. This would leave all four doors fully intact. Correct?
Also keep in mind that the rear, side wagon windows are screwed in and can be removed in one piece. Don't waste those either.
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
From what I gather, yes that is what he is suggesting. Similar to a fullsize K5 Blazer, but with four doors, and on a Benz wagon...
Also keep in mind that the rear, side wagon windows are screwed in and can be removed in one piece. Don't waste those either.
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
That was my initial plan, but it appears that I will either need to weld the doors shut permanently or drop a $1000 to have a roll cage installed. Neither of those options appeals to me much, so right now the plan is to make it a partial truck, only from the rear doors back. I guess I could always cut more if the initial chop turns out well.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-02-2009, 07:45 PM #14crew cab! put a tail gate on it and one of those cargo cages like the ford escape! you already have a tail gate cut it in half and revers hinges!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
(09-02-2009, 11:26 AM)IsaacDW Surf, you are recommending to cut only the roof from behind the rear doors. I would leave the pillar behind the door frame, only cutting the roof, hatch and hatch pillars. I just want to make sure I understood you correctly. This would leave all four doors fully intact. Correct?yeah, that's what I meant. You can always remove more later, but if you go too far too fast, a roll cage will be your only *real* option. The Jeep XJ had a bit more of a likelihood to roll than these cars, but I have seen crazier things happen. FWIW, I didnt really notice any serious issue with body flexing after I cut the whole roof off the XJ, but I only drove it for a few months until I could find a cool shop to do the fabbing and welding for the cage.
in case anyone is interested in the XJ, it was a fun car to drive around in and get weird looks... I ended up cutting off the entire ass end and fitting an MJ(Commanche) long bed on it. I had it pop-riveted in place and left it at a friends' shop to get the finish weld done...city of Nawfuk came in and told him he had to get rid of all the cars in his "unauthorized" storage lot while I was on deployment... don't know what happened to it after the city stole it. I hope somebody with vision ended up with it and finished it. I also had a convertible top made for it and used that for a long time...even after snow and rain stretched it out...
anyway, have fun with it! I'll prolly end up doing it to my other XJ once a few other projects are complete and also most likely after I finish up a degree or two...
That latest pic makes the car look sort of like a Subi Brat... would be a fun beach vehicle
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
09-02-2009, 09:33 PM #15(09-02-2009, 11:26 AM)IsaacDW Surf, you are recommending to cut only the roof from behind the rear doors. I would leave the pillar behind the door frame, only cutting the roof, hatch and hatch pillars. I just want to make sure I understood you correctly. This would leave all four doors fully intact. Correct?yeah, that's what I meant. You can always remove more later, but if you go too far too fast, a roll cage will be your only *real* option. The Jeep XJ had a bit more of a likelihood to roll than these cars, but I have seen crazier things happen. FWIW, I didnt really notice any serious issue with body flexing after I cut the whole roof off the XJ, but I only drove it for a few months until I could find a cool shop to do the fabbing and welding for the cage.
in case anyone is interested in the XJ, it was a fun car to drive around in and get weird looks... I ended up cutting off the entire ass end and fitting an MJ(Commanche) long bed on it. I had it pop-riveted in place and left it at a friends' shop to get the finish weld done...city of Nawfuk came in and told him he had to get rid of all the cars in his "unauthorized" storage lot while I was on deployment... don't know what happened to it after the city stole it. I hope somebody with vision ended up with it and finished it. I also had a convertible top made for it and used that for a long time...even after snow and rain stretched it out...
anyway, have fun with it! I'll prolly end up doing it to my other XJ once a few other projects are complete and also most likely after I finish up a degree or two...
That latest pic makes the car look sort of like a Subi Brat... would be a fun beach vehicle
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-15-2009, 08:14 PM #17w123 monster truck!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
![[Image: Benzomino.jpg]](http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/mabusonline/Benzomino.jpg)
Bah, my benzomino looks better...at least to me
I was looking into this when I was working with the Mercedes/Eurocar tech, he had a 300D NA that was pretty beat up for cheap. I looked it over, and the sedan has all of the right features for the conversion - weld the back doors, the back half of the roof moves forward, gets mated to the front section (ahead of the sunroof, behind the windshield), you do it right and it all lines up perfect and you'd just stitch together the remainder. Do it right and no cage necessary, nor any harassment from the cops.
Finish it up with some wagon lights and a custom fabbed tailgate...screw keeping the back seats, and double screw keeping the roof over the back seats, it doesn't look like anything other than a Volvo 740 sedan. A 'proper' W123 Benzomino as above would have as much bed length as a Tacoma, making it a 'real' truck. Add some heavy duty springs in the rear, or if you want to get super fancy, pillage an SLS system.
The SLS idea is the only good reason to try this with a wagon, IMO. The Sedan comes together better, and even to me, who loves automotive blasphemy, carving up a wagon like that seems foolish. I'll bet there's someone willing to pay a pretty penny for that wagon in your area, regardless of the condition. Sedans on the other hand are so dime a dozen...
Surf Rodder, I think the reason your Cherokee didn't change much with the roof cut off is because Jeeps are frame vehicles, instead of being a unibody like our cars are. (Hooray for old school tech?) If I were to do this project (which I just might), the rear doors most certainly get welded, and you'd do that before you touched the roof. One that roof is compromised, keeping it from getting misaligned will effectively be impossible unless you're doing this in a shop with alignment and/or frame work equipment, and you're not, are you? So weld the doors first.
Done like the image above, the moved-forward roof welds in and square tubing or other support material can be added if deemed necessary. Otherwise, since you're welding up a decent box, you shouldn't have problems with rollover or torsional rigidity, at least not compared with the hacked open, gaping hole I'm envisioning would be left over on the white car above.
I'd say if you're going to hack it open and leave it like that, go full roadster with it, instead of this halfway stuff.
Oh, and one lesson learned from the Mercedes tech: one of the cars we worked on was for David Duchovny, (sp?), late model convertible off of the S platform converted to run a six cylinder turbo diesel. Long story short, with my friend's expertise in custom work and background in Mercedes stretching back to the late 70's when our cars were new, combined with Duchovny's deep pockets, couldn't solve the reason why Mercedes never offered Diesel Convertibles from the factory - fumes. And that was with a later model, more sophisticated engine, and the budget to fab up whatever could be imagined out of titanium if necessary. I'd say, if you're going diesel roadster, you too might find out exactly why Mercedes left this niche unfulfilled.
Now, weld them doors shut, unscrew all of the glass from the front doors back, and replace with steel. W123 sedan delivery, so cool...I almost got to do an SD with my '66 Squareback, really should have...
CID Vicious
11-14-2009, 11:36 PM #18
Bah, my benzomino looks better...at least to me
I was looking into this when I was working with the Mercedes/Eurocar tech, he had a 300D NA that was pretty beat up for cheap. I looked it over, and the sedan has all of the right features for the conversion - weld the back doors, the back half of the roof moves forward, gets mated to the front section (ahead of the sunroof, behind the windshield), you do it right and it all lines up perfect and you'd just stitch together the remainder. Do it right and no cage necessary, nor any harassment from the cops.
Finish it up with some wagon lights and a custom fabbed tailgate...screw keeping the back seats, and double screw keeping the roof over the back seats, it doesn't look like anything other than a Volvo 740 sedan. A 'proper' W123 Benzomino as above would have as much bed length as a Tacoma, making it a 'real' truck. Add some heavy duty springs in the rear, or if you want to get super fancy, pillage an SLS system.
The SLS idea is the only good reason to try this with a wagon, IMO. The Sedan comes together better, and even to me, who loves automotive blasphemy, carving up a wagon like that seems foolish. I'll bet there's someone willing to pay a pretty penny for that wagon in your area, regardless of the condition. Sedans on the other hand are so dime a dozen...
Surf Rodder, I think the reason your Cherokee didn't change much with the roof cut off is because Jeeps are frame vehicles, instead of being a unibody like our cars are. (Hooray for old school tech?) If I were to do this project (which I just might), the rear doors most certainly get welded, and you'd do that before you touched the roof. One that roof is compromised, keeping it from getting misaligned will effectively be impossible unless you're doing this in a shop with alignment and/or frame work equipment, and you're not, are you? So weld the doors first.
Done like the image above, the moved-forward roof welds in and square tubing or other support material can be added if deemed necessary. Otherwise, since you're welding up a decent box, you shouldn't have problems with rollover or torsional rigidity, at least not compared with the hacked open, gaping hole I'm envisioning would be left over on the white car above.
I'd say if you're going to hack it open and leave it like that, go full roadster with it, instead of this halfway stuff.
Oh, and one lesson learned from the Mercedes tech: one of the cars we worked on was for David Duchovny, (sp?), late model convertible off of the S platform converted to run a six cylinder turbo diesel. Long story short, with my friend's expertise in custom work and background in Mercedes stretching back to the late 70's when our cars were new, combined with Duchovny's deep pockets, couldn't solve the reason why Mercedes never offered Diesel Convertibles from the factory - fumes. And that was with a later model, more sophisticated engine, and the budget to fab up whatever could be imagined out of titanium if necessary. I'd say, if you're going diesel roadster, you too might find out exactly why Mercedes left this niche unfulfilled.
Now, weld them doors shut, unscrew all of the glass from the front doors back, and replace with steel. W123 sedan delivery, so cool...I almost got to do an SD with my '66 Squareback, really should have...
more pics at- http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...X%26um%3D1
more pics at- http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...X%26um%3D1
CID Vicious
11-17-2009, 06:58 PM #20Sweet Jeebus! I wonder if they're running stiff-assed springs, or whether they're just (over)working an SLS system...
There are some refinements that I would change, (that center window looks like taped on plexi), but from the other pictures, this thing actually, (although possibly hacked), looks pretty interesting.
I like the access from the car into the camper.
It certainly seems to be sitting a lot higher that we would expect.
There are some refinements that I would change, (that center window looks like taped on plexi), but from the other pictures, this thing actually, (although possibly hacked), looks pretty interesting.
I like the access from the car into the camper.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
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