Best handling option
Best handling option
02-17-2014, 06:19 PM
#1
discuss
I have been hooked on the idea of a w123 606 wagon track car for quite a while now. Unfortunately, I am concerned about how well a w123 wagon can be made get around a corner. I am concerned mostly about weight and suspension design. I emailed BSR asking about their aristo subframe swap and they told me that the w123 wasn't a great idea because of the weight. Anyway, what diesel body could nicely house a superturbo 606 and handle well?
discuss
02-17-2014, 11:02 PM
#2
A 124 will be lighter.
A 210 might have a stiffness advantage but nothing pivotal.
The 124 has a ton of caster with not much scrub radius unless you get radical with the fenders. That means camber is good with the wheels turned but little jacking of the inside rear tire. Google caster jacking. As i recall, the caster spec on the 210 is the typical 4-6* range. Nothing special there.
The 210 has short/long arm front suspension, the 124 has strut. As the suspension compresses, a strut front typically does not gain negative camber, especially on a lowered car. You've got to be into rally car ride height for that. Short/long arm suspension does gain negative camber on compression. This means the outside front tire will have a better contact patch as the body rolls in turns, but the 124's added caster could more than make up for this on tight turns but maybe not on long, high speed sweepers.
Consider a 602 equipped 124. Plenty of room for intercooling, good weight distribution, more than enough horsepower capability.
IMHO, wagons aren't good for track unless you've got a serious traction or weight distribution problem. Plus, why track a sought after body? Put a sedan into a wall, no big deal.
raysorenson
02-17-2014, 11:02 PM #2The 124/210 have the 5 link rear suspension and room for intercooling a 606.
A 124 will be lighter.
A 210 might have a stiffness advantage but nothing pivotal.
The 124 has a ton of caster with not much scrub radius unless you get radical with the fenders. That means camber is good with the wheels turned but little jacking of the inside rear tire. Google caster jacking. As i recall, the caster spec on the 210 is the typical 4-6* range. Nothing special there.
The 210 has short/long arm front suspension, the 124 has strut. As the suspension compresses, a strut front typically does not gain negative camber, especially on a lowered car. You've got to be into rally car ride height for that. Short/long arm suspension does gain negative camber on compression. This means the outside front tire will have a better contact patch as the body rolls in turns, but the 124's added caster could more than make up for this on tight turns but maybe not on long, high speed sweepers.
Consider a 602 equipped 124. Plenty of room for intercooling, good weight distribution, more than enough horsepower capability.
IMHO, wagons aren't good for track unless you've got a serious traction or weight distribution problem. Plus, why track a sought after body? Put a sedan into a wall, no big deal.
02-18-2014, 09:34 AM
#3
if not, why not a w201 or if wagon a w202?
the w201 is lighter, more modern and it is possible to fit a om606 in there.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
02-18-2014, 09:34 AM #3is a wagon a requirement?
if not, why not a w201 or if wagon a w202?
the w201 is lighter, more modern and it is possible to fit a om606 in there.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
02-18-2014, 11:43 AM
#4
(02-17-2014, 06:19 PM)97e300 I have been hooked on the idea of a w123 606 wagon track car for quite a while now. Unfortunately, I am concerned about how well a w123 wagon can be made get around a corner. I am concerned mostly about weight and suspension design. I emailed BSR asking about their aristo subframe swap and they told me that the w123 wasn't a great idea because of the weight. Anyway, what diesel body could nicely house a superturbo 606 and handle well?
discuss
what you lack in cornering in a w123tdt you gain in awsomeness
! And that's worth allotseriously, it sucks at cornering. I think BSR made some good suspension-uppgrades. check the video where the driver explains how they built it. think they used mazda coils or something
**Black Smoke Racing that is
This post was last modified: 02-18-2014, 12:04 PM by john.
Holset power!
(02-17-2014, 06:19 PM)97e300 I have been hooked on the idea of a w123 606 wagon track car for quite a while now. Unfortunately, I am concerned about how well a w123 wagon can be made get around a corner. I am concerned mostly about weight and suspension design. I emailed BSR asking about their aristo subframe swap and they told me that the w123 wasn't a great idea because of the weight. Anyway, what diesel body could nicely house a superturbo 606 and handle well?
discuss
what you lack in cornering in a w123tdt you gain in awsomeness
! And that's worth allotseriously, it sucks at cornering. I think BSR made some good suspension-uppgrades. check the video where the driver explains how they built it. think they used mazda coils or something
**Black Smoke Racing that is
Holset power!
02-18-2014, 11:55 AM
#5
1981 Mercedes 300TD Lowered 4 speed manual Holset HX30
mike-81-240d
02-18-2014, 11:55 AM #5Rx8 coilovers, volvo steering gear, and a supra rear end. Not much w123 left.
1981 Mercedes 300TD Lowered 4 speed manual Holset HX30
02-18-2014, 04:07 PM
#6
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-18-2014, 04:07 PM #6I say get a coupe
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
02-19-2014, 11:24 AM
#8
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
02-26-2014, 03:07 PM
#9
(02-17-2014, 06:19 PM)97e300 I have been hooked on the idea of a w123 606 wagon track car for quite a while now. Unfortunately, I am concerned about how well a w123 wagon can be made get around a corner. I am concerned mostly about weight and suspension design. I emailed BSR asking about their aristo subframe swap and they told me that the w123 wasn't a great idea because of the weight. Anyway, what diesel body could nicely house a superturbo 606 and handle well?
discuss
If you are into w123's and like fabricating, how about getting a rust bucket w123 wagon, gut the tub and suspension out for any unwanted weight, then fabricate into it what ever front and rear suspension you want to use. While fabricating a new tub, you can incorporate a roll cage into the new frame. Not sure how much weight you can remove by doing it this way, but just thinking out loud.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
02-26-2014, 03:07 PM #9(02-17-2014, 06:19 PM)97e300 I have been hooked on the idea of a w123 606 wagon track car for quite a while now. Unfortunately, I am concerned about how well a w123 wagon can be made get around a corner. I am concerned mostly about weight and suspension design. I emailed BSR asking about their aristo subframe swap and they told me that the w123 wasn't a great idea because of the weight. Anyway, what diesel body could nicely house a superturbo 606 and handle well?
discuss
If you are into w123's and like fabricating, how about getting a rust bucket w123 wagon, gut the tub and suspension out for any unwanted weight, then fabricate into it what ever front and rear suspension you want to use. While fabricating a new tub, you can incorporate a roll cage into the new frame. Not sure how much weight you can remove by doing it this way, but just thinking out loud.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
02-28-2014, 10:33 AM
#10
here it is-
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showth...p?t=217930
This post was last modified: 02-28-2014, 10:45 AM by JB3.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
EDIT-
here it is-
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showth...p?t=217930
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
02-28-2014, 12:06 PM
#11
(02-28-2014, 10:33 AM)JB3 EDIT-
here it is-
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showth...p?t=217930
That's awesome! Something like this would be great too if i had the time/money
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/07/a-st...any-other/
(02-28-2014, 10:33 AM)JB3 EDIT-
here it is-
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showth...p?t=217930
That's awesome! Something like this would be great too if i had the time/money
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/07/a-st...any-other/
02-28-2014, 12:23 PM
#12
(02-28-2014, 12:06 PM)97e300(02-28-2014, 10:33 AM)JB3 EDIT-
here it is-
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showth...p?t=217930
That's awesome! Something like this would be great too if i had the time/money
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/07/a-st...any-other/
Both of those concepts are what I'm talkin 'bout!
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
02-28-2014, 12:23 PM #12(02-28-2014, 12:06 PM)97e300(02-28-2014, 10:33 AM)JB3 EDIT-
here it is-
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/showth...p?t=217930
That's awesome! Something like this would be great too if i had the time/money
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/07/a-st...any-other/
Both of those concepts are what I'm talkin 'bout!
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
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