OM606 most power out of stock electric pump
OM606 most power out of stock electric pump
03-13-2014, 11:04 AM
#1
Turbo upgrade?? I can get a HE351VE for pretty cheap and I have a friend that designed and makes a stand alone controller for the actuator on said turbo with 3 wires you tap into on the engine your using it on or you have to add the sensors if it is fully mech. can I use the 605 T3 manifold on a 606 so I can mount the HE351?? if not how do I go about mounting a T3 turbo on the weird flange the 606 has??
Tuning? I have a 06 cummins running a 60/75 compound set up so im not looking for serious power (1 because thats what the truck is for 2 the wife wont let me build two expensive vehicles
) who do I go to for tuning the engine once I have the HE351 mounted and running?? I would like to keep everything stock not looking to spend a boat load of cash just trying to get the most out the stock setup. the 603 pump sounds like the best way but i just dont want to do that much work.
This post was last modified: 03-13-2014, 11:06 AM by Sleek~silver602.
Sleek~silver602
03-13-2014, 11:04 AM #1Hello I have spent the last 2 hours reading about this engine as I'm looking to buy a 98-99 E300. I'm understanding that speedtuningusa has a reflash for the ECM to bump the power up, then there are other things to do this as well(this is where I am confused).
Turbo upgrade?? I can get a HE351VE for pretty cheap and I have a friend that designed and makes a stand alone controller for the actuator on said turbo with 3 wires you tap into on the engine your using it on or you have to add the sensors if it is fully mech. can I use the 605 T3 manifold on a 606 so I can mount the HE351?? if not how do I go about mounting a T3 turbo on the weird flange the 606 has??
Tuning? I have a 06 cummins running a 60/75 compound set up so im not looking for serious power (1 because thats what the truck is for 2 the wife wont let me build two expensive vehicles ) who do I go to for tuning the engine once I have the HE351 mounted and running??
I would like to keep everything stock not looking to spend a boat load of cash just trying to get the most out the stock setup. the 603 pump sounds like the best way but i just dont want to do that much work.
03-15-2014, 06:20 PM
#2
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I'm no help as far as tuning a 606, but I can tell you a 605 exhaust mani won't work because it's a 5 cylinder instead of 6.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
03-15-2014, 09:38 PM
#3
That's a huge turbo to mate to an electronic pump. The W210 is a total yawn machine too. Like a lexus but not as good. You might consider a 606 in another chassis, making it easier to get that HE351 and 603 pump in there.
raysorenson
03-15-2014, 09:38 PM #3He351ve is T4i flange. I thought the 606 came with a T3 flanged manifold.
That's a huge turbo to mate to an electronic pump. The W210 is a total yawn machine too. Like a lexus but not as good. You might consider a 606 in another chassis, making it easier to get that HE351 and 603 pump in there.
03-16-2014, 06:56 AM
#4
605 isn't T3, it's a round hole with a triangular flange, whatever that is. I belive the stock 606 is the same but can't swear to that. If your keeping the 6mm pump then the stock turbo is good enough anyway. If you have enough room converting to T3 wouldn't be a massive problem.
03-16-2014, 03:40 PM
#5
not too big or too small
AFAIK the speedtuningusa chip is a nice boost for an extra 50 hp and 100 nm, but it pretty much maxes out everything else. Again, I'm not the expert, but it seems that AFAIK, It doesn't do much good to start adding parts after maxing out with the tuning chip because the bottleneck hits most of the air/fuel/turbo/exhaust/lines at about the same time. Chip tune it get Oliver to throw in the EGR and MAF delete with the Stage II tune. You will be happy, car will be stock, and you will have more speed than you can use. The car will just want to go. Advance timing about 1 degree, replace the exhaust catalyst with a strait pipe. And enjoy the extra 4 mph. Also replace your stock water pump with one that has a metal impeller before your plastic impeller breaks on you on the road. This happened to me. At the time I never knew Mercedes made anything with a plastic impeller. It almost seems to be confined to a 99 year model issue. Google for the final version of the EGR and MAF deletes on your own.
Using Mobil 1 0w40, 5w40 Turbo Diesel, or 15w50 which are still mid SAPS oils with some anti-wear additives that haven't been removed yet for the emissions people. Using one of these 3 oils should help keep your turbo charger bearing anti-wear coated and not coke under the higher temperatures and also the higher fuel soot loading in the motor oil. If you tune you should change oil at 8,000 miles instead of waiting on the FSS. Higher EGT temperatures, and much dirtier motor oil have been frequently reported by people who chip tune.
Also anyone who ever tuned their 606 noticed great power potential, but also much higher motor oil soot loading.
It is a great engine, once you learn to take your time and extract, install, clean beveled surface, high temp antiseize, and install the glow plugs with a little extra torque. I just put in an extra set on my 190d, and the old ones were already coming out just barely finger tight. This would lead to leaks around the beveled edge of the combustion chamber. This will carbon concrete the old ones in. Everyone has their own theories from annual R*R, to galvanic corrosion, to carbon concreting.
In my experience every OM606 that I have ever seen or have heard of had zero problems pulling the original 6 glow plugs from the factory and installing 6 more. The problems then occurred many miles later when those replacements came out. Think about it, the original 6 were installed on a very clean and oiled head. They seal was perfect. Galvanic issues from aluminum/steel contact would still be there, but this never prevented the originals from coming out. When the originals were pulled out, the carbon crap/junk from the tip and prechamber get pulled through the glow plug hole and beveled sealing face on the prechamber, then when the first replacement set are put in then the never properly seal because of all of the uneven bits of crud on the sealing face.
What I have always done without problem is to thoroughly clean with pipe cleaners, and cylindrical brushes, and WD-40, then really put a lot of anti-seize around the edge of the edge and on the glow plug body, and a tiny bit on the threads. Then I add about 30nm to the stock torque for re installation. My replacement set, after originals & I didn't clean when putting these in, broke 2 of them. The moment that the old ones broke was in the ball park of 100 nm to 120nm and the threads in the head were handling this fine. If they can pull that hard trying to extract a stuck tip and body, then a little extra over the 20nm speck for installation would be fine. What I did with mine on the 3rd set to go in, 1st was factory Berus, was a through cleaning, liberal anti seize, and torqued to around 60nm. I expect no problems when I go to remove. Your mileage may vary, but this is what has worked for me. My head has never been off and I'm at 325k miles.
The weak o-ring fuel seals, and the glow plug issues are the only reasons an OM606 turbo couldn't be described as "The Perfect Engine."
I'm working on a larger spin-on 15 micron & 2 micron filter setup to eliminate the stock fuel setup, but I haven't worked out whether to include the stock shutoff box or not.
Can we get a list together for a speedtuningusa group buy for all the same Stage II with EGR/MAF delete to simplify it for them? We could each include our own prepaid FedEx label and our ME boxes. They could sit down and do 10 of them in an hour, and might be inclined to do it for $150 each. Who's in?
bhowell_10
03-16-2014, 03:40 PM #5As far as I know the stock injectors, stock injector pump, inside diameter of stock fuel lines, stock fuel filters, stock lift pump, stock turbocharger, stock intercooler, and stock exhaust manifold are all pretty well paired together.
not too big or too small
AFAIK the speedtuningusa chip is a nice boost for an extra 50 hp and 100 nm, but it pretty much maxes out everything else. Again, I'm not the expert, but it seems that AFAIK, It doesn't do much good to start adding parts after maxing out with the tuning chip because the bottleneck hits most of the air/fuel/turbo/exhaust/lines at about the same time. Chip tune it get Oliver to throw in the EGR and MAF delete with the Stage II tune. You will be happy, car will be stock, and you will have more speed than you can use. The car will just want to go. Advance timing about 1 degree, replace the exhaust catalyst with a strait pipe. And enjoy the extra 4 mph. Also replace your stock water pump with one that has a metal impeller before your plastic impeller breaks on you on the road. This happened to me. At the time I never knew Mercedes made anything with a plastic impeller. It almost seems to be confined to a 99 year model issue. Google for the final version of the EGR and MAF deletes on your own.
Using Mobil 1 0w40, 5w40 Turbo Diesel, or 15w50 which are still mid SAPS oils with some anti-wear additives that haven't been removed yet for the emissions people. Using one of these 3 oils should help keep your turbo charger bearing anti-wear coated and not coke under the higher temperatures and also the higher fuel soot loading in the motor oil. If you tune you should change oil at 8,000 miles instead of waiting on the FSS. Higher EGT temperatures, and much dirtier motor oil have been frequently reported by people who chip tune.
Also anyone who ever tuned their 606 noticed great power potential, but also much higher motor oil soot loading.
It is a great engine, once you learn to take your time and extract, install, clean beveled surface, high temp antiseize, and install the glow plugs with a little extra torque. I just put in an extra set on my 190d, and the old ones were already coming out just barely finger tight. This would lead to leaks around the beveled edge of the combustion chamber. This will carbon concrete the old ones in. Everyone has their own theories from annual R*R, to galvanic corrosion, to carbon concreting.
In my experience every OM606 that I have ever seen or have heard of had zero problems pulling the original 6 glow plugs from the factory and installing 6 more. The problems then occurred many miles later when those replacements came out. Think about it, the original 6 were installed on a very clean and oiled head. They seal was perfect. Galvanic issues from aluminum/steel contact would still be there, but this never prevented the originals from coming out. When the originals were pulled out, the carbon crap/junk from the tip and prechamber get pulled through the glow plug hole and beveled sealing face on the prechamber, then when the first replacement set are put in then the never properly seal because of all of the uneven bits of crud on the sealing face.
What I have always done without problem is to thoroughly clean with pipe cleaners, and cylindrical brushes, and WD-40, then really put a lot of anti-seize around the edge of the edge and on the glow plug body, and a tiny bit on the threads. Then I add about 30nm to the stock torque for re installation. My replacement set, after originals & I didn't clean when putting these in, broke 2 of them. The moment that the old ones broke was in the ball park of 100 nm to 120nm and the threads in the head were handling this fine. If they can pull that hard trying to extract a stuck tip and body, then a little extra over the 20nm speck for installation would be fine. What I did with mine on the 3rd set to go in, 1st was factory Berus, was a through cleaning, liberal anti seize, and torqued to around 60nm. I expect no problems when I go to remove. Your mileage may vary, but this is what has worked for me. My head has never been off and I'm at 325k miles.
The weak o-ring fuel seals, and the glow plug issues are the only reasons an OM606 turbo couldn't be described as "The Perfect Engine."
I'm working on a larger spin-on 15 micron & 2 micron filter setup to eliminate the stock fuel setup, but I haven't worked out whether to include the stock shutoff box or not.
Can we get a list together for a speedtuningusa group buy for all the same Stage II with EGR/MAF delete to simplify it for them? We could each include our own prepaid FedEx label and our ME boxes. They could sit down and do 10 of them in an hour, and might be inclined to do it for $150 each. Who's in?
03-17-2014, 08:23 AM
#7
(03-16-2014, 03:40 PM)bhowell_10 As far as I know the stock injectors, stock injector pump, inside diameter of stock fuel lines, stock fuel filters, stock lift pump, stock turbocharger, stock intercooler, and stock exhaust manifold are all pretty well paired together.
not too big or too small
AFAIK the speedtuningusa chip is a nice boost for an extra 50 hp and 100 nm, but it pretty much maxes out everything else. Again, I'm not the expert, but it seems that AFAIK, It doesn't do much good to start adding parts after maxing out with the tuning chip because the bottleneck hits most of the air/fuel/turbo/exhaust/lines at about the same time. Chip tune it get Oliver to throw in the EGR and MAF delete with the Stage II tune. You will be happy, car will be stock, and you will have more speed than you can use. The car will just want to go. Advance timing about 1 degree, replace the exhaust catalyst with a strait pipe. And enjoy the extra 4 mph. Also replace your stock water pump with one that has a metal impeller before your plastic impeller breaks on you on the road. This happened to me. At the time I never knew Mercedes made anything with a plastic impeller. It almost seems to be confined to a 99 year model issue. Google for the final version of the EGR and MAF deletes on your own.
Using Mobil 1 0w40, 5w40 Turbo Diesel, or 15w50 which are still mid SAPS oils with some anti-wear additives that haven't been removed yet for the emissions people. Using one of these 3 oils should help keep your turbo charger bearing anti-wear coated and not coke under the higher temperatures and also the higher fuel soot loading in the motor oil. If you tune you should change oil at 8,000 miles instead of waiting on the FSS. Higher EGT temperatures, and much dirtier motor oil have been frequently reported by people who chip tune.
Also anyone who ever tuned their 606 noticed great power potential, but also much higher motor oil soot loading.
It is a great engine, once you learn to take your time and extract, install, clean beveled surface, high temp antiseize, and install the glow plugs with a little extra torque. I just put in an extra set on my 190d, and the old ones were already coming out just barely finger tight. This would lead to leaks around the beveled edge of the combustion chamber. This will carbon concrete the old ones in. Everyone has their own theories from annual R*R, to galvanic corrosion, to carbon concreting.
In my experience every OM606 that I have ever seen or have heard of had zero problems pulling the original 6 glow plugs from the factory and installing 6 more. The problems then occurred many miles later when those replacements came out. Think about it, the original 6 were installed on a very clean and oiled head. They seal was perfect. Galvanic issues from aluminum/steel contact would still be there, but this never prevented the originals from coming out. When the originals were pulled out, the carbon crap/junk from the tip and prechamber get pulled through the glow plug hole and beveled sealing face on the prechamber, then when the first replacement set are put in then the never properly seal because of all of the uneven bits of crud on the sealing face.
What I have always done without problem is to thoroughly clean with pipe cleaners, and cylindrical brushes, and WD-40, then really put a lot of anti-seize around the edge of the edge and on the glow plug body, and a tiny bit on the threads. Then I add about 30nm to the stock torque for re installation. My replacement set, after originals & I didn't clean when putting these in, broke 2 of them. The moment that the old ones broke was in the ball park of 100 nm to 120nm and the threads in the head were handling this fine. If they can pull that hard trying to extract a stuck tip and body, then a little extra over the 20nm speck for installation would be fine. What I did with mine on the 3rd set to go in, 1st was factory Berus, was a through cleaning, liberal anti seize, and torqued to around 60nm. I expect no problems when I go to remove. Your mileage may vary, but this is what has worked for me. My head has never been off and I'm at 325k miles.
The weak o-ring fuel seals, and the glow plug issues are the only reasons an OM606 turbo couldn't be described as "The Perfect Engine."
I'm working on a larger spin-on 15 micron & 2 micron filter setup to eliminate the stock fuel setup, but I haven't worked out whether to include the stock shutoff box or not.
Can we get a list together for a speedtuningusa group buy for all the same Stage II with EGR/MAF delete to simplify it for them? We could each include our own prepaid FedEx label and our ME boxes. They could sit down and do 10 of them in an hour, and might be inclined to do it for $150 each. Who's in?
by "shut off box" do you mean the black valve bolted to the side of the IP, contrary to popular opinion and as you probably know it is solely for emergency use and part of the immobiliser system nothing to do with stopping the engine so yes it could be bypassed but would either mean fabricating a dummy plate and O ring stub or threading the port on the IP
On mine when I get round to it I intend to take fuel supply straight to the lift pump then plumb the rest of the system under pressure hopefully eliminating the issues associated with air ingress through the dozen O rings on the clear pipes
yorkshire1
03-17-2014, 08:23 AM #7(03-16-2014, 03:40 PM)bhowell_10 As far as I know the stock injectors, stock injector pump, inside diameter of stock fuel lines, stock fuel filters, stock lift pump, stock turbocharger, stock intercooler, and stock exhaust manifold are all pretty well paired together.
not too big or too small
AFAIK the speedtuningusa chip is a nice boost for an extra 50 hp and 100 nm, but it pretty much maxes out everything else. Again, I'm not the expert, but it seems that AFAIK, It doesn't do much good to start adding parts after maxing out with the tuning chip because the bottleneck hits most of the air/fuel/turbo/exhaust/lines at about the same time. Chip tune it get Oliver to throw in the EGR and MAF delete with the Stage II tune. You will be happy, car will be stock, and you will have more speed than you can use. The car will just want to go. Advance timing about 1 degree, replace the exhaust catalyst with a strait pipe. And enjoy the extra 4 mph. Also replace your stock water pump with one that has a metal impeller before your plastic impeller breaks on you on the road. This happened to me. At the time I never knew Mercedes made anything with a plastic impeller. It almost seems to be confined to a 99 year model issue. Google for the final version of the EGR and MAF deletes on your own.
Using Mobil 1 0w40, 5w40 Turbo Diesel, or 15w50 which are still mid SAPS oils with some anti-wear additives that haven't been removed yet for the emissions people. Using one of these 3 oils should help keep your turbo charger bearing anti-wear coated and not coke under the higher temperatures and also the higher fuel soot loading in the motor oil. If you tune you should change oil at 8,000 miles instead of waiting on the FSS. Higher EGT temperatures, and much dirtier motor oil have been frequently reported by people who chip tune.
Also anyone who ever tuned their 606 noticed great power potential, but also much higher motor oil soot loading.
It is a great engine, once you learn to take your time and extract, install, clean beveled surface, high temp antiseize, and install the glow plugs with a little extra torque. I just put in an extra set on my 190d, and the old ones were already coming out just barely finger tight. This would lead to leaks around the beveled edge of the combustion chamber. This will carbon concrete the old ones in. Everyone has their own theories from annual R*R, to galvanic corrosion, to carbon concreting.
In my experience every OM606 that I have ever seen or have heard of had zero problems pulling the original 6 glow plugs from the factory and installing 6 more. The problems then occurred many miles later when those replacements came out. Think about it, the original 6 were installed on a very clean and oiled head. They seal was perfect. Galvanic issues from aluminum/steel contact would still be there, but this never prevented the originals from coming out. When the originals were pulled out, the carbon crap/junk from the tip and prechamber get pulled through the glow plug hole and beveled sealing face on the prechamber, then when the first replacement set are put in then the never properly seal because of all of the uneven bits of crud on the sealing face.
What I have always done without problem is to thoroughly clean with pipe cleaners, and cylindrical brushes, and WD-40, then really put a lot of anti-seize around the edge of the edge and on the glow plug body, and a tiny bit on the threads. Then I add about 30nm to the stock torque for re installation. My replacement set, after originals & I didn't clean when putting these in, broke 2 of them. The moment that the old ones broke was in the ball park of 100 nm to 120nm and the threads in the head were handling this fine. If they can pull that hard trying to extract a stuck tip and body, then a little extra over the 20nm speck for installation would be fine. What I did with mine on the 3rd set to go in, 1st was factory Berus, was a through cleaning, liberal anti seize, and torqued to around 60nm. I expect no problems when I go to remove. Your mileage may vary, but this is what has worked for me. My head has never been off and I'm at 325k miles.
The weak o-ring fuel seals, and the glow plug issues are the only reasons an OM606 turbo couldn't be described as "The Perfect Engine."
I'm working on a larger spin-on 15 micron & 2 micron filter setup to eliminate the stock fuel setup, but I haven't worked out whether to include the stock shutoff box or not.
Can we get a list together for a speedtuningusa group buy for all the same Stage II with EGR/MAF delete to simplify it for them? We could each include our own prepaid FedEx label and our ME boxes. They could sit down and do 10 of them in an hour, and might be inclined to do it for $150 each. Who's in?
by "shut off box" do you mean the black valve bolted to the side of the IP, contrary to popular opinion and as you probably know it is solely for emergency use and part of the immobiliser system nothing to do with stopping the engine so yes it could be bypassed but would either mean fabricating a dummy plate and O ring stub or threading the port on the IP
On mine when I get round to it I intend to take fuel supply straight to the lift pump then plumb the rest of the system under pressure hopefully eliminating the issues associated with air ingress through the dozen O rings on the clear pipes
03-17-2014, 11:39 AM
#8
(03-16-2014, 03:40 PM)bhowell_10 Can we get a list together for a speedtuningusa group buy for all the same Stage II with EGR/MAF delete to simplify it for them? We could each include our own prepaid FedEx label and our ME boxes. They could sit down and do 10 of them in an hour, and might be inclined to do it for $150 each. Who's in?
I'm in for the group buy.
(03-16-2014, 03:40 PM)bhowell_10 Can we get a list together for a speedtuningusa group buy for all the same Stage II with EGR/MAF delete to simplify it for them? We could each include our own prepaid FedEx label and our ME boxes. They could sit down and do 10 of them in an hour, and might be inclined to do it for $150 each. Who's in?
I'm in for the group buy.
03-17-2014, 12:08 PM
#9
1977 300D for parts? Just a pile of rust but still runs!
1984 190D 2.2 - gone to better home
1987 Dodge Maxivan with OM603 and Goran’s 7.5 backroads terror
1987 300TD - tinker toy
1989 300TE - parts
1991 300TE - backyards decor
1991 300TD - Barrote’s 7.5
1992 300TD - semi-STD(Goran modified 7.5 ip but still with factory turbo+at)
1998 E300TD - dd with DSL1 now
1998 ML320 - snow ride
2014 Sprinter 2500 - Malone’s tune + pedal box
I will join as well. To make it workable for group buy we need considerable number to be attractive proposition to the vendor.
1977 300D for parts? Just a pile of rust but still runs!
1984 190D 2.2 - gone to better home
1987 Dodge Maxivan with OM603 and Goran’s 7.5 backroads terror
1987 300TD - tinker toy
1989 300TE - parts
1991 300TE - backyards decor
1991 300TD - Barrote’s 7.5
1992 300TD - semi-STD(Goran modified 7.5 ip but still with factory turbo+at)
1998 E300TD - dd with DSL1 now
1998 ML320 - snow ride
2014 Sprinter 2500 - Malone’s tune + pedal box
03-17-2014, 01:08 PM
#10
EDIT: group buy post
This post was last modified: 03-17-2014, 01:16 PM by 97e300.
After speaking to the gentleman at speedtuningusa, the regular price for the stage 2 with egr kill is 375 and after group buy, minimum of 10, it'll be 250 per. I'll post a dedicated thread to the topic momentarily.
EDIT: group buy post
03-19-2014, 01:15 AM
#11
(03-17-2014, 08:23 AM)yorkshire1 by "shut off box" do you mean the black valve bolted to the side of the IP, contrary to popular opinion and as you probably know it is solely for emergency use and part of the immobiliser system nothing to do with stopping the engine so yes it could be bypassed but would either mean fabricating a dummy plate and O ring stub or threading the port on the IP
On mine when I get round to it I intend to take fuel supply straight to the lift pump then plumb the rest of the system under pressure hopefully eliminating the issues associated with air ingress through the dozen O rings on the clear pipes
yes, dummy plate & 0-ring or more like a hollow rubber stopper. I'm looking into a 15 micron and 2 micron large spin-on probably in the trunk, pushed by a 5 psi electric diesel pump.
Then just a simple pipe to the IP. Eliminate the stock filter garbage plastic pipe & cheap o-ring system under the hood, and eliminate the power steering pump and pulley. Switch to electric power steering. Install a modded connector where the downstream inter cooler aluminum pipe goes into the intake manifold where the intake air temp sensor goes & the EGR pipe is located. This setup would supply more fuel if the IP ever wanted it, and wouldn't be subject to the constant chasing of tiny invisible air leaks. It also would negate any diesel vaporization issues. Put a copper plug into the EGR port on the exhaust manifold. Strait pipe where the exhaust catalyst is.
Word to the wise: Always use lots of brake parts cleaner, and diesel flush your lines out, and use clean hands/gloves. You don't want anything solid ever entering the IP.
I've been working on bypass filtration for a long time, but the benefits of micron range filtration may be negated by removing the ZDDP and Moly in their larger compound sizes. We "tuned" drivers may just have to change our oil more often. Maybe at 7-8 thousand miles instead of when the FSS tells us to.
bhowell_10
03-19-2014, 01:15 AM #11(03-17-2014, 08:23 AM)yorkshire1 by "shut off box" do you mean the black valve bolted to the side of the IP, contrary to popular opinion and as you probably know it is solely for emergency use and part of the immobiliser system nothing to do with stopping the engine so yes it could be bypassed but would either mean fabricating a dummy plate and O ring stub or threading the port on the IP
On mine when I get round to it I intend to take fuel supply straight to the lift pump then plumb the rest of the system under pressure hopefully eliminating the issues associated with air ingress through the dozen O rings on the clear pipes
yes, dummy plate & 0-ring or more like a hollow rubber stopper. I'm looking into a 15 micron and 2 micron large spin-on probably in the trunk, pushed by a 5 psi electric diesel pump.
Then just a simple pipe to the IP. Eliminate the stock filter garbage plastic pipe & cheap o-ring system under the hood, and eliminate the power steering pump and pulley. Switch to electric power steering. Install a modded connector where the downstream inter cooler aluminum pipe goes into the intake manifold where the intake air temp sensor goes & the EGR pipe is located. This setup would supply more fuel if the IP ever wanted it, and wouldn't be subject to the constant chasing of tiny invisible air leaks. It also would negate any diesel vaporization issues. Put a copper plug into the EGR port on the exhaust manifold. Strait pipe where the exhaust catalyst is.
Word to the wise: Always use lots of brake parts cleaner, and diesel flush your lines out, and use clean hands/gloves. You don't want anything solid ever entering the IP.
I've been working on bypass filtration for a long time, but the benefits of micron range filtration may be negated by removing the ZDDP and Moly in their larger compound sizes. We "tuned" drivers may just have to change our oil more often. Maybe at 7-8 thousand miles instead of when the FSS tells us to.
03-20-2014, 03:52 AM
#12
(03-19-2014, 01:15 AM)bhowell_10(03-17-2014, 08:23 AM)yorkshire1 by "shut off box" do you mean the black valve bolted to the side of the IP, contrary to popular opinion and as you probably know it is solely for emergency use and part of the immobiliser system nothing to do with stopping the engine so yes it could be bypassed but would either mean fabricating a dummy plate and O ring stub or threading the port on the IP
On mine when I get round to it I intend to take fuel supply straight to the lift pump then plumb the rest of the system under pressure hopefully eliminating the issues associated with air ingress through the dozen O rings on the clear pipes
yes, dummy plate & 0-ring or more like a hollow rubber stopper. I'm looking into a 15 micron and 2 micron large spin-on probably in the trunk, pushed by a 5 psi electric diesel pump.
Then just a simple pipe to the IP. Eliminate the stock filter garbage plastic pipe & cheap o-ring system under the hood, and eliminate the power steering pump and pulley. Switch to electric power steering. Install a modded connector where the downstream inter cooler aluminum pipe goes into the intake manifold where the intake air temp sensor goes & the EGR pipe is located. This setup would supply more fuel if the IP ever wanted it, and wouldn't be subject to the constant chasing of tiny invisible air leaks. It also would negate any diesel vaporization issues. Put a copper plug into the EGR port on the exhaust manifold. Strait pipe where the exhaust catalyst is.
Word to the wise: Always use lots of brake parts cleaner, and diesel flush your lines out, and use clean hands/gloves. You don't want anything solid ever entering the IP.
I've been working on bypass filtration for a long time, but the benefits of micron range filtration may be negated by removing the ZDDP and Moly in their larger compound sizes. We "tuned" drivers may just have to change our oil more often. Maybe at 7-8 thousand miles instead of when the FSS tells us to.
sounds like the way to go, I never understood on the stock motor the logic of running the induction air through the intercooler only for it to be warmed up again by the red hot aluminium EGR casting
ref fuel, Im running veg oil with 15%UL and have a primer bulb fitted on the feed line which when running is nearly always sucked flat suggesting the mech lift pump is struggling for supply through the stock lines from the tank so its no wonder the O rings struggle to seal on these engines
This post was last modified: 03-20-2014, 03:53 AM by yorkshire1.
yorkshire1
03-20-2014, 03:52 AM #12(03-19-2014, 01:15 AM)bhowell_10(03-17-2014, 08:23 AM)yorkshire1 by "shut off box" do you mean the black valve bolted to the side of the IP, contrary to popular opinion and as you probably know it is solely for emergency use and part of the immobiliser system nothing to do with stopping the engine so yes it could be bypassed but would either mean fabricating a dummy plate and O ring stub or threading the port on the IP
On mine when I get round to it I intend to take fuel supply straight to the lift pump then plumb the rest of the system under pressure hopefully eliminating the issues associated with air ingress through the dozen O rings on the clear pipes
yes, dummy plate & 0-ring or more like a hollow rubber stopper. I'm looking into a 15 micron and 2 micron large spin-on probably in the trunk, pushed by a 5 psi electric diesel pump.
Then just a simple pipe to the IP. Eliminate the stock filter garbage plastic pipe & cheap o-ring system under the hood, and eliminate the power steering pump and pulley. Switch to electric power steering. Install a modded connector where the downstream inter cooler aluminum pipe goes into the intake manifold where the intake air temp sensor goes & the EGR pipe is located. This setup would supply more fuel if the IP ever wanted it, and wouldn't be subject to the constant chasing of tiny invisible air leaks. It also would negate any diesel vaporization issues. Put a copper plug into the EGR port on the exhaust manifold. Strait pipe where the exhaust catalyst is.
Word to the wise: Always use lots of brake parts cleaner, and diesel flush your lines out, and use clean hands/gloves. You don't want anything solid ever entering the IP.
I've been working on bypass filtration for a long time, but the benefits of micron range filtration may be negated by removing the ZDDP and Moly in their larger compound sizes. We "tuned" drivers may just have to change our oil more often. Maybe at 7-8 thousand miles instead of when the FSS tells us to.
sounds like the way to go, I never understood on the stock motor the logic of running the induction air through the intercooler only for it to be warmed up again by the red hot aluminium EGR casting
ref fuel, Im running veg oil with 15%UL and have a primer bulb fitted on the feed line which when running is nearly always sucked flat suggesting the mech lift pump is struggling for supply through the stock lines from the tank so its no wonder the O rings struggle to seal on these engines
03-20-2014, 03:55 PM
#14
(03-20-2014, 03:52 AM)yorkshire1(03-19-2014, 01:15 AM)bhowell_10(03-17-2014, 08:23 AM)yorkshire1 by "shut off box" do you mean the black valve bolted to the side of the IP, contrary to popular opinion and as you probably know it is solely for emergency use and part of the immobiliser system nothing to do with stopping the engine so yes it could be bypassed but would either mean fabricating a dummy plate and O ring stub or threading the port on the IP
On mine when I get round to it I intend to take fuel supply straight to the lift pump then plumb the rest of the system under pressure hopefully eliminating the issues associated with air ingress through the dozen O rings on the clear pipes
yes, dummy plate & 0-ring or more like a hollow rubber stopper. I'm looking into a 15 micron and 2 micron large spin-on probably in the trunk, pushed by a 5 psi electric diesel pump.
Then just a simple pipe to the IP. Eliminate the stock filter garbage plastic pipe & cheap o-ring system under the hood, and eliminate the power steering pump and pulley. Switch to electric power steering. Install a modded connector where the downstream inter cooler aluminum pipe goes into the intake manifold where the intake air temp sensor goes & the EGR pipe is located. This setup would supply more fuel if the IP ever wanted it, and wouldn't be subject to the constant chasing of tiny invisible air leaks. It also would negate any diesel vaporization issues. Put a copper plug into the EGR port on the exhaust manifold. Strait pipe where the exhaust catalyst is.
Word to the wise: Always use lots of brake parts cleaner, and diesel flush your lines out, and use clean hands/gloves. You don't want anything solid ever entering the IP.
I've been working on bypass filtration for a long time, but the benefits of micron range filtration may be negated by removing the ZDDP and Moly in their larger compound sizes. We "tuned" drivers may just have to change our oil more often. Maybe at 7-8 thousand miles instead of when the FSS tells us to.
sounds like the way to go, I never understood on the stock motor the logic of running the induction air through the intercooler only for it to be warmed up again by the red hot aluminium EGR casting
ref fuel, Im running veg oil with 15%UL and have a primer bulb fitted on the feed line which when running is nearly always sucked flat suggesting the mech lift pump is struggling for supply through the stock lines from the tank so its no wonder the O rings struggle to seal on these engines
Can you do a viscocity test on your veg oil and 15% diesel blend?
Wonder how much the significantly higher viscosity is causing the stock lines to struggle? Otherwise larger lines from the tank are in order. No point in making the engine struggle for fuel.
bhowell_10
03-20-2014, 03:55 PM #14(03-20-2014, 03:52 AM)yorkshire1(03-19-2014, 01:15 AM)bhowell_10(03-17-2014, 08:23 AM)yorkshire1 by "shut off box" do you mean the black valve bolted to the side of the IP, contrary to popular opinion and as you probably know it is solely for emergency use and part of the immobiliser system nothing to do with stopping the engine so yes it could be bypassed but would either mean fabricating a dummy plate and O ring stub or threading the port on the IP
On mine when I get round to it I intend to take fuel supply straight to the lift pump then plumb the rest of the system under pressure hopefully eliminating the issues associated with air ingress through the dozen O rings on the clear pipes
yes, dummy plate & 0-ring or more like a hollow rubber stopper. I'm looking into a 15 micron and 2 micron large spin-on probably in the trunk, pushed by a 5 psi electric diesel pump.
Then just a simple pipe to the IP. Eliminate the stock filter garbage plastic pipe & cheap o-ring system under the hood, and eliminate the power steering pump and pulley. Switch to electric power steering. Install a modded connector where the downstream inter cooler aluminum pipe goes into the intake manifold where the intake air temp sensor goes & the EGR pipe is located. This setup would supply more fuel if the IP ever wanted it, and wouldn't be subject to the constant chasing of tiny invisible air leaks. It also would negate any diesel vaporization issues. Put a copper plug into the EGR port on the exhaust manifold. Strait pipe where the exhaust catalyst is.
Word to the wise: Always use lots of brake parts cleaner, and diesel flush your lines out, and use clean hands/gloves. You don't want anything solid ever entering the IP.
I've been working on bypass filtration for a long time, but the benefits of micron range filtration may be negated by removing the ZDDP and Moly in their larger compound sizes. We "tuned" drivers may just have to change our oil more often. Maybe at 7-8 thousand miles instead of when the FSS tells us to.
sounds like the way to go, I never understood on the stock motor the logic of running the induction air through the intercooler only for it to be warmed up again by the red hot aluminium EGR casting
ref fuel, Im running veg oil with 15%UL and have a primer bulb fitted on the feed line which when running is nearly always sucked flat suggesting the mech lift pump is struggling for supply through the stock lines from the tank so its no wonder the O rings struggle to seal on these engines
Can you do a viscocity test on your veg oil and 15% diesel blend?
Wonder how much the significantly higher viscosity is causing the stock lines to struggle? Otherwise larger lines from the tank are in order. No point in making the engine struggle for fuel.
03-21-2014, 03:36 AM
#15
Stevo-trendy
03-21-2014, 03:36 AM #15You want to use petrol/gas to thin veg oil it lowers the viscosity down a lot more than diesel , also helps with de watering the veg oil & its easy to start it in the morning with just a splash of petrol added to the veg
03-21-2014, 06:27 AM
#16
(03-21-2014, 03:36 AM)Stevo-trendy You want to use petrol/gas to thin veg oil it lowers the viscosity down a lot more than diesel , also helps with de watering the veg oil & its easy to start it in the morning with just a splash of petrol added to the veg
It is thinned with petrol/gas ie UL as posted (unleaded)
Yes viscosity is slightly higher than diesel but its a happy medium the feedline does want to be larger bore, job waiting to be done
I believe the stock fuel supply lines/system are underspecced anyway as the clear pipes from the preheater thru the prefilter and immobiliser valve to the lift pump are too small , they should all be larger than the pressure side pipes so theyre not restricting the lift pump, you only have to look at the size of the hosetail on the preheater inlet to see what the bore should really have been right thru the suction side and in my view this is a large contributor to suction side air ingress.. imagine what the lift pump is trying to suck through on high revs
yorkshire1
03-21-2014, 06:27 AM #16(03-21-2014, 03:36 AM)Stevo-trendy You want to use petrol/gas to thin veg oil it lowers the viscosity down a lot more than diesel , also helps with de watering the veg oil & its easy to start it in the morning with just a splash of petrol added to the veg
It is thinned with petrol/gas ie UL as posted (unleaded)
Yes viscosity is slightly higher than diesel but its a happy medium the feedline does want to be larger bore, job waiting to be done
I believe the stock fuel supply lines/system are underspecced anyway as the clear pipes from the preheater thru the prefilter and immobiliser valve to the lift pump are too small , they should all be larger than the pressure side pipes so theyre not restricting the lift pump, you only have to look at the size of the hosetail on the preheater inlet to see what the bore should really have been right thru the suction side and in my view this is a large contributor to suction side air ingress.. imagine what the lift pump is trying to suck through on high revs
03-21-2014, 09:08 AM
#17
Veg oil will eventually eat the seals in the IP and anywhere where it comes into contact with rubber really. I had problems with air bubbles in the fuel lines, this was eventually traced back to the fuel preheater thermostat letting in air. I bypassed it and it ran perfect.
03-21-2014, 02:38 PM
#18
Stevo-trendy
03-21-2014, 02:38 PM #18You can buy the full kit of viton o rings which are a lot better than standard O rings against veg think the kit is around £20-25 quid it's for all the pipes & the other seals on the pump
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