My 87 300d superturbo
My 87 300d superturbo
05-27-2014, 08:44 PM
#1
Insane190d
05-27-2014, 08:44 PM #1Well ive been wanting to build one for a couple years now, finally got to it. Still more to do, but sofar the list is...Mynä 8mm pump (set around 100cc now) euro style exhaust manifold with an hx35 turbo off 2nd gen dodge cummins, air flows through a 27" x 12" x 3" front mount intercooler. (No A/C, who needs it..) 3" piping to Intake that is the stock one but modified for nice even flow from ic. 30 psi pop valve. (Work's great). 4" down pipe off second gen dodge cummins (almost looks like it was made for the benz). Having some cooling issues now if anyone can help. My phone wont download pics for some reason, but ill dfinetly get them to the computer if there's some Interest Im my fun lil project. It HAULS!!. Still stock auto fornow
05-28-2014, 01:24 AM
#2
Original engine? How much did you score the exhaust mani for?
"Cooling issues" covers a lot of territory. A little more detail will get you better advice. If I had to guess, probably pushing too much fuel or that IC is blocking adequate airflow through the radiator.
I would get a new radiator if the current is older than five years or unknown. If you don't like that idea, at least slap an electric fan on that badboy and set it low. Also, get a standard transmission, like yesterday. If you're ready with the parts, you won't have to suffer downtime when the slushee gives up the ghost.
MBZ123
Of course pix! Pics or it didn't happen, you know this.
Original engine? How much did you score the exhaust mani for?
"Cooling issues" covers a lot of territory. A little more detail will get you better advice. If I had to guess, probably pushing too much fuel or that IC is blocking adequate airflow through the radiator.
I would get a new radiator if the current is older than five years or unknown. If you don't like that idea, at least slap an electric fan on that badboy and set it low. Also, get a standard transmission, like yesterday. If you're ready with the parts, you won't have to suffer downtime when the slushee gives up the ghost.
MBZ123
05-28-2014, 05:13 AM
#3
Insane190d
05-28-2014, 05:13 AM #3You got it. Pics soon. But yea the cooling is as soon as I get into it. I elimiminated ac and left the electric fan out thinking it was just for ac but I found out it turns on at 90°c. So im gonna do some more hacking to get fan back, ill have rad out too to. heck its condition. Original om603 car is clean with 108,000 miles
05-28-2014, 08:09 AM
#4
At a minimum, if it's the same head gasket it had when it rolled off the assembly line, it should be replaced. The head gaskets have undergone several improvements over the years. The aftermarket HG's have these improvements as well. You also need to check the part# on your lifters. If they're the old#, replace them while you're in there.
raysorenson
05-28-2014, 08:09 AM #4Do a hydrocarbon test (aka "block tester") on the cooling system to see if combustion gasses are getting into the cooling system. If you've got a #14 head casting and it's not cracked already, it will be soon if you don't fix this.
At a minimum, if it's the same head gasket it had when it rolled off the assembly line, it should be replaced. The head gaskets have undergone several improvements over the years. The aftermarket HG's have these improvements as well. You also need to check the part# on your lifters. If they're the old#, replace them while you're in there.
05-28-2014, 08:15 AM
#5
(05-28-2014, 08:09 AM)raysorenson Do a hydrocarbon test (aka "block tester") on the cooling system to see if combustion gasses are getting into the cooling system. If you've got a #14 head casting and it's not cracked already, it will be soon if you don't fix this.
At a minimum, if it's the same head gasket it had when it rolled off the assembly line, it should be replaced. The head gaskets have undergone several improvements over the years. The aftermarket HG's have these improvements as well. You also need to check the part# on your lifters. If they're the old#, replace them while you're in there.
Ok very good, ill check all that. Where can I find the head number? If its #14 start looking for another head ?
Insane190d
05-28-2014, 08:15 AM #5(05-28-2014, 08:09 AM)raysorenson Do a hydrocarbon test (aka "block tester") on the cooling system to see if combustion gasses are getting into the cooling system. If you've got a #14 head casting and it's not cracked already, it will be soon if you don't fix this.
At a minimum, if it's the same head gasket it had when it rolled off the assembly line, it should be replaced. The head gaskets have undergone several improvements over the years. The aftermarket HG's have these improvements as well. You also need to check the part# on your lifters. If they're the old#, replace them while you're in there.
Ok very good, ill check all that. Where can I find the head number? If its #14 start looking for another head ?
05-28-2014, 08:54 AM
#6
Did you remove the AC condenser to fit the intercooler in there? PICS MAN PICS!
This post was last modified: 05-28-2014, 08:55 AM by winmutt.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
You'd be best off to describe the cooling problems. My aux fan is blown and we run well into the 100's here in Atlanta and I rarely see a peep over 85*C. Do you have an EGT installed? What kind of radiator is it? Does the clutch lock up on the fan. I don't agree with Ray's statement on #14. Chances are if it hasn't cracked it won't anytime soon. With such low mileage I am betting you just need a new radiator or clutch. #20-22 will run you $12-2200, there are a lot of other things you can look at before getting into that.
Did you remove the AC condenser to fit the intercooler in there? PICS MAN PICS!
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
05-28-2014, 12:18 PM
#7
(05-28-2014, 08:54 AM)winmutt You'd be best off to describe the cooling problems. My aux fan is blown and we run well into the 100's here in Atlanta and I rarely see a peep over 85*C. Do you have an EGT installed? What kind of radiator is it? Does the clutch lock up on the fan. I don't agree with Ray's statement on #14. Chances are if it hasn't cracked it won't anytime soon. With such low mileage I am betting you just need a new radiator or clutch. #20-22 will run you $12-2200, there are a lot of other things you can look at before getting into that.
Did you remove the AC condenser to fit the intercooler in there? PICS MAN PICS!
I kno I kno im tryna get pics up. Ac condenser gone. Just drove it now, drove it normal it was fine right at 80c. Over heats when hammering on it. Fan is spinning at idle. Ill go rev it up to see if it starts slipping. Temp raises and boils the water. Then air gets in and heat stops. No egt yet but intake stays amazingly cool ever since ic. Factory rad
This post was last modified: 05-28-2014, 12:19 PM by Insane190d.
Insane190d
05-28-2014, 12:18 PM #7(05-28-2014, 08:54 AM)winmutt You'd be best off to describe the cooling problems. My aux fan is blown and we run well into the 100's here in Atlanta and I rarely see a peep over 85*C. Do you have an EGT installed? What kind of radiator is it? Does the clutch lock up on the fan. I don't agree with Ray's statement on #14. Chances are if it hasn't cracked it won't anytime soon. With such low mileage I am betting you just need a new radiator or clutch. #20-22 will run you $12-2200, there are a lot of other things you can look at before getting into that.
Did you remove the AC condenser to fit the intercooler in there? PICS MAN PICS!
I kno I kno im tryna get pics up. Ac condenser gone. Just drove it now, drove it normal it was fine right at 80c. Over heats when hammering on it. Fan is spinning at idle. Ill go rev it up to see if it starts slipping. Temp raises and boils the water. Then air gets in and heat stops. No egt yet but intake stays amazingly cool ever since ic. Factory rad
05-28-2014, 04:04 PM
#8
This post was last modified: 05-28-2014, 04:19 PM by Insane190d.
Attached Files
Image(s)
05-28-2014, 04:41 PM
#9
(05-28-2014, 08:09 AM)raysorenson If you've got a #14 head casting and it's not cracked already, it will be soon if you don't fix this.
winmutt I don't agree with Ray's statement on #14. Chances are if it hasn't cracked it won't anytime soon.
You can crack any head from overheating. The #14 cracked so frequently that MB addressed the problem in later castings. This guy has a worked injection pump, more boost AND he's overheating. You are actually advising someone with an overheating hotrod 603 that, if he has a #14 head, he probably won't crack it by doing this. Food for thought.
raysorenson
05-28-2014, 04:41 PM #9(05-28-2014, 08:09 AM)raysorenson If you've got a #14 head casting and it's not cracked already, it will be soon if you don't fix this.
winmutt I don't agree with Ray's statement on #14. Chances are if it hasn't cracked it won't anytime soon.
You can crack any head from overheating. The #14 cracked so frequently that MB addressed the problem in later castings. This guy has a worked injection pump, more boost AND he's overheating. You are actually advising someone with an overheating hotrod 603 that, if he has a #14 head, he probably won't crack it by doing this. Food for thought.
Insane190d
05-28-2014, 05:03 PM #10![[Image: IMG_20140521_134705_zpskgn65rkr.jpg]](http://%20http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t660/91cumminsman/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140521_134705_zpskgn65rkr.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_20140521_134739_zps4oe4ssuc.jpg]](http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t660/91cumminsman/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140521_134739_zps4oe4ssuc.jpg)
![[Image: 20140521_134542_zps76lmkeso.jpg]](http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t660/91cumminsman/Mobile%20Uploads/20140521_134542_zps76lmkeso.jpg)
![[Image: 20140526_180509_zpsr6qghusc.jpg]](http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t660/91cumminsman/Mobile%20Uploads/20140526_180509_zpsr6qghusc.jpg)
![[Image: 20140524_144112_zpsrsbiwquy.jpg]](http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t660/91cumminsman/Mobile%20Uploads/20140524_144112_zpsrsbiwquy.jpg)
![[Image: 20140521_134529_zpsygj6gu6l.jpg]](http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t660/91cumminsman/Mobile%20Uploads/20140521_134529_zpsygj6gu6l.jpg)
Looks like the fan clutch is the problem. I got it up to temp and it wasnt pushing any air or going any faster.
[edited] fixed image links.
05-28-2014, 06:39 PM
#12
(05-28-2014, 08:54 AM)winmutt You'd be best off to describe the cooling problems. My aux fan is blown and we run well into the 100's here in Atlanta and I rarely see a peep over 85*C. Do you have an EGT installed? What kind of radiator is it? Does the clutch lock up on the fan. I don't agree with Ray's statement on #14. Chances are if it hasn't cracked it won't anytime soon. With such low mileage I am betting you just need a new radiator or clutch. #20-22 will run you $12-2200, there are a lot of other things you can look at before getting into that.
Did you remove the AC condenser to fit the intercooler in there? PICS MAN PICS!
^^^This this and more this.
Pick the low hanging fruit (aka cheapest/easiest fixes) first. Absolutely no reason to go burnin up all your bennies without stone cold confirmation of bigger issues. The casting number of head is irrelevant providing you properly maintain all pertinent systems. BUT YA, you definitely need to get a pyrometer in there like last week with that setup. You're begging for a disaster. I know I dont wanna see you posting in here acting the teardropper, so do yourself a huge favor. NOW. For the love of Rudolph!
MBZ123
O ya, and how bout a heat blankie for that force feeder?!?! That can't be any good for all them things lookin like sardines up top there sans any barriers. That turbo is infringing on the personal space of Mr. CH and he sure ain't cool wit dat! Ahhh, sometimes, sigh...8D
There are plenty of solutions for shielding/redirecting heat within the engine bay and some are quite inexpensive. You'll need at least one.
MBZ123
This post was last modified: 05-28-2014, 06:48 PM by mbz123.
(05-28-2014, 08:54 AM)winmutt You'd be best off to describe the cooling problems. My aux fan is blown and we run well into the 100's here in Atlanta and I rarely see a peep over 85*C. Do you have an EGT installed? What kind of radiator is it? Does the clutch lock up on the fan. I don't agree with Ray's statement on #14. Chances are if it hasn't cracked it won't anytime soon. With such low mileage I am betting you just need a new radiator or clutch. #20-22 will run you $12-2200, there are a lot of other things you can look at before getting into that.
Did you remove the AC condenser to fit the intercooler in there? PICS MAN PICS!
^^^This this and more this.
Pick the low hanging fruit (aka cheapest/easiest fixes) first. Absolutely no reason to go burnin up all your bennies without stone cold confirmation of bigger issues. The casting number of head is irrelevant providing you properly maintain all pertinent systems. BUT YA, you definitely need to get a pyrometer in there like last week with that setup. You're begging for a disaster. I know I dont wanna see you posting in here acting the teardropper, so do yourself a huge favor. NOW. For the love of Rudolph!
MBZ123
O ya, and how bout a heat blankie for that force feeder?!?! That can't be any good for all them things lookin like sardines up top there sans any barriers. That turbo is infringing on the personal space of Mr. CH and he sure ain't cool wit dat! Ahhh, sometimes, sigh...8D
There are plenty of solutions for shielding/redirecting heat within the engine bay and some are quite inexpensive. You'll need at least one.
MBZ123
05-28-2014, 07:59 PM
#13
Insane190d
05-28-2014, 07:59 PM #13Just keep in mind there is alot more things I have to do. I kno I need an egt I kno I need a heat shield on charger. Im in the test stage havent drove it much at all. The intake was fabbed by my friend. Thats my favorite part of the car. Im gonna eliminate the fan clutch.
06-09-2014, 08:17 PM
#14
Insane190d
06-09-2014, 08:17 PM #14Well ive been running the car around and it doesnt over heat as bad now that I made the fan a fixed fan, but still heats up. Im definitely thinking its got some minor cracks in the head. Stays pressurized overnight. It is a #14 head. Think ill be buying anothee head #22
06-10-2014, 02:42 AM
#15
DiseaselWeasel
06-10-2014, 02:42 AM #15Of maybe you injection timing is off? There are so many possibilities... The viscous fan clutch is very important, without it the big cooling fan is basically dissabled. The beauty of a viscous fan is that it can manage heat, not just blow it away. Get a new SACHS (notjing else!) fan clutch and all will be good. I don't see the point in removing it because it's broken... It's a terribly good invention!
06-10-2014, 08:17 AM
#16
(06-10-2014, 02:42 AM)DiseaselWeasel Of maybe you injection timing is off? There are so many possibilities... The viscous fan clutch is very important, without it the big cooling fan is basically dissabled. The beauty of a viscous fan is that it can manage heat, not just blow it away. Get a new SACHS (notjing else!) fan clutch and all will be good. I don't see the point in removing it because it's broken... It's a terribly good invention!
The timing seems to be set pretty good. I figured id get rid of the fan clutch cause I have alot more fuel so just wantto keep cool especially during summer. Im going to do a leak test.
This post was last modified: 06-10-2014, 08:18 AM by Insane190d.
Insane190d
06-10-2014, 08:17 AM #16(06-10-2014, 02:42 AM)DiseaselWeasel Of maybe you injection timing is off? There are so many possibilities... The viscous fan clutch is very important, without it the big cooling fan is basically dissabled. The beauty of a viscous fan is that it can manage heat, not just blow it away. Get a new SACHS (notjing else!) fan clutch and all will be good. I don't see the point in removing it because it's broken... It's a terribly good invention!
The timing seems to be set pretty good. I figured id get rid of the fan clutch cause I have alot more fuel so just wantto keep cool especially during summer. Im going to do a leak test.
06-10-2014, 02:36 PM
#17
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lil-75...7AodMWAAfQ
Solid deal at $30.
FWIW, my personal experience went like this- Slow coolant loss for a few months with no evidence of a leak. One morning, at about 10*F ambient temps, my gauge went from normal to pegged while driving over 110mph. The heater stopped working. I pulled over. There was coolant in the tank, at the right level too. I sat for a while, cranked it back up and the gauge went back to normal and my heater started working again. I drove to work and checked the cooling system with the block tester. It was positive for hydrocarbons.
My #14 head zero cracks that I could see. I understand they typically crack between the prechamber bore and the exhaust valve. I inspected these areas especially carefully. I did not check for flatness. I think the gasket was not sealing, but that's pure conjecture. I replaced the head anyway since I had a twentysomething head laying around. It's been rock solid since then.
If you decide to go the head route, try to get a blown rodbender with the angled prechambers installed.
raysorenson
06-10-2014, 02:36 PM #17You need this to accurately determine if it's a combustion leak causing coolant loss:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lil-75...7AodMWAAfQ
Solid deal at $30.
FWIW, my personal experience went like this- Slow coolant loss for a few months with no evidence of a leak. One morning, at about 10*F ambient temps, my gauge went from normal to pegged while driving over 110mph. The heater stopped working. I pulled over. There was coolant in the tank, at the right level too. I sat for a while, cranked it back up and the gauge went back to normal and my heater started working again. I drove to work and checked the cooling system with the block tester. It was positive for hydrocarbons.
My #14 head zero cracks that I could see. I understand they typically crack between the prechamber bore and the exhaust valve. I inspected these areas especially carefully. I did not check for flatness. I think the gasket was not sealing, but that's pure conjecture. I replaced the head anyway since I had a twentysomething head laying around. It's been rock solid since then.
If you decide to go the head route, try to get a blown rodbender with the angled prechambers installed.
06-10-2014, 08:18 PM
#18
(06-10-2014, 02:36 PM)raysorenson You need this to accurately determine if it's a combustion leak causing coolant loss:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lil-75...7AodMWAAfQ
Solid deal at $30.
FWIW, my personal experience went like this- Slow coolant loss for a few months with no evidence of a leak. One morning, at about 10*F ambient temps, my gauge went from normal to pegged while driving over 110mph. The heater stopped working. I pulled over. There was coolant in the tank, at the right level too. I sat for a while, cranked it back up and the gauge went back to normal and my heater started working again. I drove to work and checked the cooling system with the block tester. It was positive for hydrocarbons.
My #14 head zero cracks that I could see. I understand they typically crack between the prechamber bore and the exhaust valve. I inspected these areas especially carefully. I did not check for flatness. I think the gasket was not sealing, but that's pure conjecture. I replaced the head anyway since I had a twentysomething head laying around. It's been rock solid since then.
If you decide to go the head route, try to get a blown rodbender with the angled prechambers installed.
Ok thanks thats what ill do, if it turns out to be bad ill atleast kno where my problem is and keep an eye out for a 3.5l head. Sounds good. Suppose ill get a new timing chain while im at it
Insane190d
06-10-2014, 08:18 PM #18(06-10-2014, 02:36 PM)raysorenson You need this to accurately determine if it's a combustion leak causing coolant loss:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lil-75...7AodMWAAfQ
Solid deal at $30.
FWIW, my personal experience went like this- Slow coolant loss for a few months with no evidence of a leak. One morning, at about 10*F ambient temps, my gauge went from normal to pegged while driving over 110mph. The heater stopped working. I pulled over. There was coolant in the tank, at the right level too. I sat for a while, cranked it back up and the gauge went back to normal and my heater started working again. I drove to work and checked the cooling system with the block tester. It was positive for hydrocarbons.
My #14 head zero cracks that I could see. I understand they typically crack between the prechamber bore and the exhaust valve. I inspected these areas especially carefully. I did not check for flatness. I think the gasket was not sealing, but that's pure conjecture. I replaced the head anyway since I had a twentysomething head laying around. It's been rock solid since then.
If you decide to go the head route, try to get a blown rodbender with the angled prechambers installed.
Ok thanks thats what ill do, if it turns out to be bad ill atleast kno where my problem is and keep an eye out for a 3.5l head. Sounds good. Suppose ill get a new timing chain while im at it
06-11-2014, 03:54 PM
#19
Insane190d
06-11-2014, 03:54 PM #19Well I did the combustion gas test to my coolant system....turned green that means something's not happy either head or gasket
06-12-2014, 12:09 PM
#20
This post was last modified: 06-12-2014, 12:15 PM by willbhere4u.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
06-12-2014, 12:09 PM #20Probably a cracked cylinder head dose the cooling system stay pressurized? That's a good sign the head is cracked. My car will have pressure in the cooling system for days after its shut off and 30 seconds after it starts up Evan cold. My car has had a cracked head for the last 2 years but it never overheats I just have to keep the coolant filled up. It doesn't burn coolant the crack is under 400 psi so the combustion gassed get in to the coolant but the crack must be small enough the coolant doesn't leak back in to the combustion chamber.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
06-12-2014, 03:48 PM
#21
Insane190d
06-12-2014, 03:48 PM #21Yea stays pressurized overnight im sure its the head. Verry small crack cause I had to really warm it up and build boost for it to test bad.
06-23-2014, 07:09 PM
#23
(06-19-2014, 01:20 PM)winmutt That intercooler routing has me jealous.
Hahaha thanks yea it does look good and keeps the intake very cool to the touch even after really running it hard
So Im looking for a new cylinder head, now what gasket should I use that can handle the boost? It seems like evey one use the om606 head gasket. Is it an mls?
This post was last modified: 06-23-2014, 07:11 PM by Insane190d.
Insane190d
06-23-2014, 07:09 PM #23(06-19-2014, 01:20 PM)winmutt That intercooler routing has me jealous.
Hahaha thanks yea it does look good and keeps the intake very cool to the touch even after really running it hard
So Im looking for a new cylinder head, now what gasket should I use that can handle the boost? It seems like evey one use the om606 head gasket. Is it an mls?
06-24-2014, 09:26 AM
#24
Both the regular and the "service" (thicker) version of the 606 hg will increase the compression ratio if installed on a 603.
A side note: some of the later heads have increased combustion chamber volume which should reduce compression ratio. Some also have extra coolant passages to the block. Mine did and I had to drill holes in the HG to accomodate.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outsi...01-400.pdf
raysorenson
06-24-2014, 09:26 AM #24I've searched a lot on the 603 HG subject. I came to the conclusion that the standard HG can handle 350-400hp and that the 606 HG install was troublesome.
Both the regular and the "service" (thicker) version of the 606 hg will increase the compression ratio if installed on a 603.
A side note: some of the later heads have increased combustion chamber volume which should reduce compression ratio. Some also have extra coolant passages to the block. Mine did and I had to drill holes in the HG to accomodate.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outsi...01-400.pdf
06-24-2014, 12:30 PM
#25
(06-24-2014, 09:26 AM)raysorenson I've searched a lot on the 603 HG subject. I came to the conclusion that the standard HG can handle 350-400hp and that the 606 HG install was troublesome.Ok thanks. Yea I have a wanted add on Craig's list for a 606. Hopefully one will come up
Both the regular and the "service" (thicker) version of the 606 hg will increase the compression ratio if installed on a 603.
A side note: some of the later heads have increased combustion chamber volume which should reduce compression ratio. Some also have extra coolant passages to the block. Mine did and I had to drill holes in the HG to accomodate.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outsi...01-400.pdf
Insane190d
06-24-2014, 12:30 PM #25(06-24-2014, 09:26 AM)raysorenson I've searched a lot on the 603 HG subject. I came to the conclusion that the standard HG can handle 350-400hp and that the 606 HG install was troublesome.Ok thanks. Yea I have a wanted add on Craig's list for a 606. Hopefully one will come up
Both the regular and the "service" (thicker) version of the 606 hg will increase the compression ratio if installed on a 603.
A side note: some of the later heads have increased combustion chamber volume which should reduce compression ratio. Some also have extra coolant passages to the block. Mine did and I had to drill holes in the HG to accomodate.
http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outsi...01-400.pdf
06-29-2014, 05:05 PM
#26
This post was last modified: 06-29-2014, 05:23 PM by Insane190d.
Insane190d
06-29-2014, 05:05 PM #26Well I pulled head off. Nothing obvious. Noticed a small crack on #6  cylinder. But wouldnt think that would cause the over heat problem. Whats your guys thoughts? I havent checked to see if everything is still true. Ill try to post pics.
06-30-2014, 05:14 AM
#28
(06-29-2014, 08:57 PM)raysorenson Pics of the cracks! Where are they?
I kno. I never can figure out how to post pics. Crack is barely noticeable by the bigger valve. Forgot if thats intake or exhaust.
Insane190d
06-30-2014, 05:14 AM #28(06-29-2014, 08:57 PM)raysorenson Pics of the cracks! Where are they?
I kno. I never can figure out how to post pics. Crack is barely noticeable by the bigger valve. Forgot if thats intake or exhaust.
![[Image: 20140629_155753_zpslj21w0du.jpg]](http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/91cumminsman/media/20140629_155753_zpslj21w0du.jpg.html)
![[Image: 20140629_155853_zpsrgm9g7fw.jpg]](http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/91cumminsman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140629_155853_zpsrgm9g7fw.jpg.html)
06-30-2014, 03:54 PM
#30
![[Image: 20140630_121016_zpswgl1v46t.jpg]](http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/91cumminsman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140630_121016_zpswgl1v46t.jpg.html)
![[Image: 20140629_155900_zpskq4v8ils.upgraded]](http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/91cumminsman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140629_155900_zpskq4v8ils.jpg.html)
If u look close the top picture is one of the very small cracks closer to left valve
This post was last modified: 06-30-2014, 03:57 PM by Insane190d.
Insane190d
06-30-2014, 03:54 PM #30
If u look close the top picture is one of the very small cracks closer to left valve
07-01-2014, 09:41 AM
#31
BUT FIRST THINGS FIRST
For crying out loud, get some proper telemetry installed. You're gonna end up in this same exact pinch, yes even with a later redesigned cylinder head, if you ignore basic monitoring. Seriously, how many times do you want to hunt down and fork over just to stare at your baby up on jacks? OK, maybe a tad melodramatic, but the cost benefit speaks for itself.
MBZ123
If it's not too pricey, get that head checked out. Just looking at it is gonna tell you diddly shit all day long and then some. I'm not privy to what pressure/fluxing/surfacing/etc costs these days, but I would bet cash money it's cheaper than a replacement cylinder head. Your symptoms and those pics don't have this armchair Sherlock convinced it's the cylinder head that needs to be tossed. If it all checks out, another fifty dollar gasket and a weekend wrenching will have you back on the road.
BUT FIRST THINGS FIRST
For crying out loud, get some proper telemetry installed. You're gonna end up in this same exact pinch, yes even with a later redesigned cylinder head, if you ignore basic monitoring. Seriously, how many times do you want to hunt down and fork over just to stare at your baby up on jacks? OK, maybe a tad melodramatic, but the cost benefit speaks for itself.
MBZ123
07-01-2014, 02:12 PM
#32
(07-01-2014, 09:41 AM)mbz123 If it's not too pricey, get that head checked out. Just looking at it is gonna tell you diddly shit all day long and then some. I'm not privy to what pressure/fluxing/surfacing/etc costs these days, but I would bet cash money it's cheaper than a replacement cylinder head. Your symptoms and those pics don't have this armchair Sherlock convinced it's the cylinder head that needs to be tossed. If it all checks out, another fifty dollar gasket and a weekend wrenching will have you back on the road.
BUT FIRST THINGS FIRST
For crying out loud, get some proper telemetry installed. You're gonna end up in this same exact pinch, yes even with a later redesigned cylinder head, if you ignore basic monitoring. Seriously, how many times do you want to hunt down and fork over just to stare at your baby up on jacks? OK, maybe a tad melodramatic, but the cost benefit speaks for itself.
MBZ123
Ok sounds good I will see who can test it around here, but still that little crack will worry me that it could get worse over time. And yes I will order an egt guage RIGHT NOW
. Any other guages recommended? Im also mounting a fan on oil cooler.
Insane190d
07-01-2014, 02:12 PM #32(07-01-2014, 09:41 AM)mbz123 If it's not too pricey, get that head checked out. Just looking at it is gonna tell you diddly shit all day long and then some. I'm not privy to what pressure/fluxing/surfacing/etc costs these days, but I would bet cash money it's cheaper than a replacement cylinder head. Your symptoms and those pics don't have this armchair Sherlock convinced it's the cylinder head that needs to be tossed. If it all checks out, another fifty dollar gasket and a weekend wrenching will have you back on the road.
BUT FIRST THINGS FIRST
For crying out loud, get some proper telemetry installed. You're gonna end up in this same exact pinch, yes even with a later redesigned cylinder head, if you ignore basic monitoring. Seriously, how many times do you want to hunt down and fork over just to stare at your baby up on jacks? OK, maybe a tad melodramatic, but the cost benefit speaks for itself.
MBZ123
Ok sounds good I will see who can test it around here, but still that little crack will worry me that it could get worse over time. And yes I will order an egt guage RIGHT NOW
. Any other guages recommended? Im also mounting a fan on oil cooler.
07-01-2014, 04:14 PM
#33
I like Auber instruments. The prices are right, the digital gauges have lots of bells and whistles and they match the '80s era cars well. Then there's 14point7's iDash http://www.14point7.com/products/idash It will do anything you want without having to install a single gauge in your dash. Just use a phone.
raysorenson
07-01-2014, 04:14 PM #33You can't have too many gauges. How about 1 egt for each cylinder, exhaust back pressure (turbine inlet pressure), IAT, MAP, pressure at turbo outlet for comparing with MAP to see pressure loss in intake plumbing and intercooler. I'm sure I'm missing some here.
I like Auber instruments. The prices are right, the digital gauges have lots of bells and whistles and they match the '80s era cars well. Then there's 14point7's iDash http://www.14point7.com/products/idash It will do anything you want without having to install a single gauge in your dash. Just use a phone.
07-02-2014, 02:26 AM
#34
(07-01-2014, 04:14 PM)raysorenson You can't have too many gauges. How about 1 egt for each cylinder, exhaust back pressure (turbine inlet pressure), IAT, MAP, pressure at turbo outlet for comparing with MAP to see pressure loss in intake plumbing and intercooler. I'm sure I'm missing some here.
I like Auber instruments. The prices are right, the digital gauges have lots of bells and whistles and they match the '80s era cars well. Then there's 14point7's iDash http://www.14point7.com/products/idash It will do anything you want without having to install a single gauge in your dash. Just use a phone.
Wow, impressively thorough. Although I will respectfully disagree on the too many gauges sentiment. Frugal minimalist here and 1xqty EGT/cyl for a streeter is a bit on the lavish side imo. Now if he's drifting/dragging/autoXing with any frequency, then by all means. To each his own, though.
(07-01-2014, 02:12 PM)Insane190d Ok sounds good I will see who can test it around here, but still that little crack will worry me that it could get worse over time. And yes I will order an egt guage RIGHT NOW
Well, that's what the tests will explain in greater detail. Frankly, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If it turns out to be a doorstop, you're out less than a cee note. If it turns out you get another go with it for several years or more then how much is that worth to you? If it were me, that's one hell of a reason to throw a party. Hehe, excellent excuse to knock 'em back with the bros You've already shown us you're the gambler and any gambler worth his salt knows a no-brainer when he sees one. Don't forget to do your homework on the machine shop tho. Ask around, don't just take it to the first listing you turn to in the yellow pages. You want competent and experienced service for an alloy head. If you get blank stares or hemmhawwing when you mention it's a Mercedes head, TURN AND WALK.
Was it you that I responded to in another thread about attaching a fan to the oil cooler? If not, I'll repeat it here: benefit<tradeoff. I forget the spec on that bypass valve, but I vaguely recall the amount of time it is ever open was some ridiculously small number. Basically, crank oil rarely traveled through the cooler because it almost never got warm enough to trip that valve. So instead of blazing down that trail, and also an answer your question, get an oil temp sensor/gauge to see if you're oil is actually running that hot and for how long. If that's an issue, diagnose why rather than slap a bandaid on it. Your engine will love you back!
MBZ123
(07-01-2014, 04:14 PM)raysorenson You can't have too many gauges. How about 1 egt for each cylinder, exhaust back pressure (turbine inlet pressure), IAT, MAP, pressure at turbo outlet for comparing with MAP to see pressure loss in intake plumbing and intercooler. I'm sure I'm missing some here.
I like Auber instruments. The prices are right, the digital gauges have lots of bells and whistles and they match the '80s era cars well. Then there's 14point7's iDash http://www.14point7.com/products/idash It will do anything you want without having to install a single gauge in your dash. Just use a phone.
Wow, impressively thorough. Although I will respectfully disagree on the too many gauges sentiment. Frugal minimalist here and 1xqty EGT/cyl for a streeter is a bit on the lavish side imo. Now if he's drifting/dragging/autoXing with any frequency, then by all means. To each his own, though.
(07-01-2014, 02:12 PM)Insane190d Ok sounds good I will see who can test it around here, but still that little crack will worry me that it could get worse over time. And yes I will order an egt guage RIGHT NOW
Well, that's what the tests will explain in greater detail. Frankly, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If it turns out to be a doorstop, you're out less than a cee note. If it turns out you get another go with it for several years or more then how much is that worth to you? If it were me, that's one hell of a reason to throw a party. Hehe, excellent excuse to knock 'em back with the bros You've already shown us you're the gambler and any gambler worth his salt knows a no-brainer when he sees one. Don't forget to do your homework on the machine shop tho. Ask around, don't just take it to the first listing you turn to in the yellow pages. You want competent and experienced service for an alloy head. If you get blank stares or hemmhawwing when you mention it's a Mercedes head, TURN AND WALK.
Was it you that I responded to in another thread about attaching a fan to the oil cooler? If not, I'll repeat it here: benefit<tradeoff. I forget the spec on that bypass valve, but I vaguely recall the amount of time it is ever open was some ridiculously small number. Basically, crank oil rarely traveled through the cooler because it almost never got warm enough to trip that valve. So instead of blazing down that trail, and also an answer your question, get an oil temp sensor/gauge to see if you're oil is actually running that hot and for how long. If that's an issue, diagnose why rather than slap a bandaid on it. Your engine will love you back!
MBZ123
07-02-2014, 07:58 AM
#35
(07-02-2014, 02:26 AM)mbz123(07-01-2014, 04:14 PM)raysorenson You can't have too many gauges. How about 1 egt for each cylinder, exhaust back pressure (turbine inlet pressure), IAT, MAP, pressure at turbo outlet for comparing with MAP to see pressure loss in intake plumbing and intercooler. I'm sure I'm missing some here.
I like Auber instruments. The prices are right, the digital gauges have lots of bells and whistles and they match the '80s era cars well. Then there's 14point7's iDash http://www.14point7.com/products/idash It will do anything you want without having to install a single gauge in your dash. Just use a phone.
Wow, impressively thorough. Although I will respectfully disagree on the too many gauges sentiment. Frugal minimalist here and 1xqty EGT/cyl for a streeter is a bit on the lavish side imo. Now if he's drifting/dragging/autoXing with any frequency, then by all means. To each his own, though.
(07-01-2014, 02:12 PM)Insane190d Ok sounds good I will see who can test it around here, but still that little crack will worry me that it could get worse over time. And yes I will order an egt guage RIGHT NOW
Well, that's what the tests will explain in greater detail. Frankly, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If it turns out to be a doorstop, you're out less than a cee note. If it turns out you get another go with it for several years or more then how much is that worth to you? If it were me, that's one hell of a reason to throw a party. Hehe, excellent excuse to knock 'em back with the bros You've already shown us you're the gambler and any gambler worth his salt knows a no-brainer when he sees one. Don't forget to do your homework on the machine shop tho. Ask around, don't just take it to the first listing you turn to in the yellow pages. You want competent and experienced service for an alloy head. If you get blank stares or hemmhawwing when you mention it's a Mercedes head, TURN AND WALK.
Was it you that I responded to in another thread about attaching a fan to the oil cooler? If not, I'll repeat it here: benefit<tradeoff. I forget the spec on that bypass valve, but I vaguely recall the amount of time it is ever open was some ridiculously small number. Basically, crank oil rarely traveled through the cooler because it almost never got warm enough to trip that valve. So instead of blazing down that trail, and also an answer your question, get an oil temp sensor/gauge to see if you're oil is actually running that hot and for how long. If that's an issue, diagnose why rather than slap a bandaid on it. Your engine will love you back!
MBZ123
Ok all sounds good I do plan on installing an oil temp gauge befor shes back up and running. Whats getting in the danger level for oil temp?
Insane190d
07-02-2014, 07:58 AM #35(07-02-2014, 02:26 AM)mbz123(07-01-2014, 04:14 PM)raysorenson You can't have too many gauges. How about 1 egt for each cylinder, exhaust back pressure (turbine inlet pressure), IAT, MAP, pressure at turbo outlet for comparing with MAP to see pressure loss in intake plumbing and intercooler. I'm sure I'm missing some here.
I like Auber instruments. The prices are right, the digital gauges have lots of bells and whistles and they match the '80s era cars well. Then there's 14point7's iDash http://www.14point7.com/products/idash It will do anything you want without having to install a single gauge in your dash. Just use a phone.
Wow, impressively thorough. Although I will respectfully disagree on the too many gauges sentiment. Frugal minimalist here and 1xqty EGT/cyl for a streeter is a bit on the lavish side imo. Now if he's drifting/dragging/autoXing with any frequency, then by all means. To each his own, though.
(07-01-2014, 02:12 PM)Insane190d Ok sounds good I will see who can test it around here, but still that little crack will worry me that it could get worse over time. And yes I will order an egt guage RIGHT NOW
Well, that's what the tests will explain in greater detail. Frankly, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. If it turns out to be a doorstop, you're out less than a cee note. If it turns out you get another go with it for several years or more then how much is that worth to you? If it were me, that's one hell of a reason to throw a party. Hehe, excellent excuse to knock 'em back with the bros You've already shown us you're the gambler and any gambler worth his salt knows a no-brainer when he sees one. Don't forget to do your homework on the machine shop tho. Ask around, don't just take it to the first listing you turn to in the yellow pages. You want competent and experienced service for an alloy head. If you get blank stares or hemmhawwing when you mention it's a Mercedes head, TURN AND WALK.
Was it you that I responded to in another thread about attaching a fan to the oil cooler? If not, I'll repeat it here: benefit<tradeoff. I forget the spec on that bypass valve, but I vaguely recall the amount of time it is ever open was some ridiculously small number. Basically, crank oil rarely traveled through the cooler because it almost never got warm enough to trip that valve. So instead of blazing down that trail, and also an answer your question, get an oil temp sensor/gauge to see if you're oil is actually running that hot and for how long. If that's an issue, diagnose why rather than slap a bandaid on it. Your engine will love you back!
MBZ123
Ok all sounds good I do plan on installing an oil temp gauge befor shes back up and running. Whats getting in the danger level for oil temp?
07-11-2014, 08:02 AM
#36
Insane190d
07-11-2014, 08:02 AM #36Going to get my head pressure tested, then if good on it will go with an om606 mls gasket.
07-12-2014, 01:26 PM
#37
Keep us up to date with the results on that head.
MBZ123
Thermostat that controls flow to the oil cooler under DS front fender starts to open at 110*C and is full open at 125*C. Not sure best location for sensor, but the pipe/tube exiting the bottom of filter housing and connecting to cooler is the outbound path (connection at middle of housing is inbound.) Pan is the easiest although as close as one can get to and just before the actual bypass theoretically seems the best. Even at full open there is still some quantity flowing straight through to the filter/not redirected. Best to get in there and have a looksee for any vacant/plugged threaded ports or some such.
Keep us up to date with the results on that head.
MBZ123
07-13-2014, 05:27 PM
#38
(07-12-2014, 01:26 PM)mbz123 Keep us up to date with the results on that head.
MBZ123
His head is cracked. He even posted pictures of it. What do think a head shop is going to tell the guy?
raysorenson
07-13-2014, 05:27 PM #38(07-12-2014, 01:26 PM)mbz123 Keep us up to date with the results on that head.
MBZ123
His head is cracked. He even posted pictures of it. What do think a head shop is going to tell the guy?
07-14-2014, 05:16 PM
#39
(07-12-2014, 01:26 PM)mbz123 Thermostat that controls flow to the oil cooler under DS front fender starts to open at 110*C and is full open at 125*C. Not sure best location for sensor, but the pipe/tube exiting the bottom of filter housing and connecting to cooler is the outbound path (connection at middle of housing is inbound.) Pan is the easiest although as close as one can get to and just before the actual bypass theoretically seems the best. Even at full open there is still some quantity flowing straight through to the filter/not redirected. Best to get in there and have a looksee for any vacant/plugged threaded ports or some such.Ok sounds good. Any yea the head im not too thrilled about putting back on but its easy enough to do. If it passed the test ill run it while in search for a good head
Keep us up to date with the results on that head.
MBZ123
Insane190d
07-14-2014, 05:16 PM #39(07-12-2014, 01:26 PM)mbz123 Thermostat that controls flow to the oil cooler under DS front fender starts to open at 110*C and is full open at 125*C. Not sure best location for sensor, but the pipe/tube exiting the bottom of filter housing and connecting to cooler is the outbound path (connection at middle of housing is inbound.) Pan is the easiest although as close as one can get to and just before the actual bypass theoretically seems the best. Even at full open there is still some quantity flowing straight through to the filter/not redirected. Best to get in there and have a looksee for any vacant/plugged threaded ports or some such.Ok sounds good. Any yea the head im not too thrilled about putting back on but its easy enough to do. If it passed the test ill run it while in search for a good head
Keep us up to date with the results on that head.
MBZ123
08-25-2014, 10:03 AM
#41
(08-25-2014, 01:46 AM)swatmugga what size of intercooler do you use?
27x12x3"
Insane190d
08-25-2014, 10:03 AM #41(08-25-2014, 01:46 AM)swatmugga what size of intercooler do you use?
27x12x3"
08-25-2014, 04:58 PM
#43
(08-25-2014, 12:00 PM)swatmugga Do you had to cut your frame?
No, it was a tight fit. I trimmed the radiator support a bit. (Diddnt take any structural integrity from it) to get the 90 degree angle boost hoses
Insane190d
08-25-2014, 04:58 PM #43(08-25-2014, 12:00 PM)swatmugga Do you had to cut your frame?
No, it was a tight fit. I trimmed the radiator support a bit. (Diddnt take any structural integrity from it) to get the 90 degree angle boost hoses
09-11-2014, 12:12 PM
#44
Insane190d
09-11-2014, 12:12 PM #44Well im back at it. Installing new headgasket now. Just went with a good stock gasket and sprayed on that copper sealer on it, everyone says stock will hold a safe 450hp with good boost. Head checked out good, looked everywhere for a #22 with no luck and I had to get my car back together, soo we will see..
09-11-2014, 05:14 PM
#45
![[Image: IMG_20140911_114950_zps2cswmxdw.jpg]](http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/91cumminsman/media/IMG_20140911_114950_zps2cswmxdw.jpg.html)
[/url]![[Image: 20140911_141200_zpstkfnexeh.jpg]](http://%20%5BURL=http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/91cumminsman/media/20140911_141200_zpstkfnexeh.jpg.html)
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This post was last modified: 09-11-2014, 05:25 PM by Insane190d.
09-12-2014, 05:36 AM
#47
(09-11-2014, 08:50 PM)raysorenson Good luck!
Thanks! Hopefully it will be all good
Insane190d
09-12-2014, 05:36 AM #47(09-11-2014, 08:50 PM)raysorenson Good luck!
Thanks! Hopefully it will be all good
09-17-2014, 06:32 PM
#48
Insane190d
09-17-2014, 06:32 PM #48shes back up and running! I went on a half hour tester trip with 0 problems! Engine is finally staying cool, and I was hammering pretty good on it too. Might be time to cranck up the fuel and swap the manual into it
09-20-2014, 01:51 AM
#49
I do have a small request though. Could you describe in more detail what the shop actually performed on the head and info they had to conclude what they did? What tests specifically and what if any documented data did they provide you besides a "ya, it's cool, throw her back on 'n yer good to go" to show their results.
(09-17-2014, 06:32 PM)Insane190d I was hammering pretty good on it too. Might be time to cranck up the fuel and swap the manual into it
and I thought I was a gambler!!!! Your enthusiasm's infectious, but just remember to get that monitoring in place before you go aggro with extreme tuning.
MBZ123
Good for you, that's great news. Glad you stuck with it to see things through with the original head. Undo haste makes waste and you woulda been out a shiny dime had you jumped the gun with a replacement prematurely!
I do have a small request though. Could you describe in more detail what the shop actually performed on the head and info they had to conclude what they did? What tests specifically and what if any documented data did they provide you besides a "ya, it's cool, throw her back on 'n yer good to go" to show their results.
(09-17-2014, 06:32 PM)Insane190d I was hammering pretty good on it too. Might be time to cranck up the fuel and swap the manual into it
and I thought I was a gambler!!!! Your enthusiasm's infectious, but just remember to get that monitoring in place before you go aggro with extreme tuning.
MBZ123
09-20-2014, 02:30 PM
#50
(09-20-2014, 01:51 AM)mbz123 Good for you, that's great news. Glad you stuck with it to see things through with the original head. Undo haste makes waste and you woulda been out a shiny dime had you jumped the gun with a replacement prematurely!
I do have a small request though. Could you describe in more detail what the shop actually performed on the head and info they had to conclude what they did? What tests specifically and what if any documented data did they provide you besides a "ya, it's cool, throw her back on 'n yer good to go" to show their results.
(09-17-2014, 06:32 PM)Insane190d I was hammering pretty good on it too. Might be time to cranck up the fuel and swap the manual into it
and I thought I was a gambler!!!! Your enthusiasm's infectious, but just remember to get that monitoring in place before you go aggro with extreme tuning.
MBZ123
Yea thanks! The machine shop just did a hillbilly pressure test, I think it was filled with 40psi of air and sprayed with soapy water... but I was starting to get impatient looking at my car in the garage apart and waiting to find a new head, so I figure "F it" ill put it together and see. Its really not a bad job. Its all fun.
and yes the guages are getting wired up inthe next day
This post was last modified: 09-20-2014, 02:32 PM by Insane190d.
Insane190d
09-20-2014, 02:30 PM #50(09-20-2014, 01:51 AM)mbz123 Good for you, that's great news. Glad you stuck with it to see things through with the original head. Undo haste makes waste and you woulda been out a shiny dime had you jumped the gun with a replacement prematurely!
I do have a small request though. Could you describe in more detail what the shop actually performed on the head and info they had to conclude what they did? What tests specifically and what if any documented data did they provide you besides a "ya, it's cool, throw her back on 'n yer good to go" to show their results.
(09-17-2014, 06:32 PM)Insane190d I was hammering pretty good on it too. Might be time to cranck up the fuel and swap the manual into it
and I thought I was a gambler!!!! Your enthusiasm's infectious, but just remember to get that monitoring in place before you go aggro with extreme tuning.
MBZ123
Yea thanks! The machine shop just did a hillbilly pressure test, I think it was filled with 40psi of air and sprayed with soapy water... but I was starting to get impatient looking at my car in the garage apart and waiting to find a new head, so I figure "F it" ill put it together and see. Its really not a bad job. Its all fun.
and yes the guages are getting wired up inthe next day
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