Garrett ball bearing oil and air cooled turbo
Garrett ball bearing oil and air cooled turbo
after some feed back one garrett enginereer said:
-"would agree with you that they are more suitable for drag racing, with short runs.
The ceramic bearing cartridges hold up better at high temperatures now than the old ones with the plastic retainers, but the problem will be heat affecting the oil and with no water cooling, the temperatures in the hub and bearing bore areas could get pretty high - dependant on what the exhaust gas inlet temperature is of course. For drag racing; only a few minutes at a time and maybe running on methanol, this is less of a problem.
The main restricting factor on these turbos may be the ductile iron turbine housing, which would suffer at continuous high temperature, again less of a problem for short runs on the drag strip.
Have you seen the white paper on water cooling on our website? It gives some really good, useful information?:"
well the white paper did not say anything I did not know before and can not really see what it help for these drag racing turbos, no documentation available
somebody here has experience about using them continuously? Help would be highly appreciated!
Well after been search for some time for a good low pressure turbo I find the garrett GTX drag racing series could offer some features that was very desirable and hard to find else where. I spoke with a Garrett distributor here and was a little bit amazed that they know very little about these turbos, never had them never heard of them was the answer. And when I said they where oil and air cooled and not water cooled the question about cooling rise to the surface
after some feed back one garrett enginereer said:
-"would agree with you that they are more suitable for drag racing, with short runs.
The ceramic bearing cartridges hold up better at high temperatures now than the old ones with the plastic retainers, but the problem will be heat affecting the oil and with no water cooling, the temperatures in the hub and bearing bore areas could get pretty high - dependant on what the exhaust gas inlet temperature is of course. For drag racing; only a few minutes at a time and maybe running on methanol, this is less of a problem.
The main restricting factor on these turbos may be the ductile iron turbine housing, which would suffer at continuous high temperature, again less of a problem for short runs on the drag strip.
Have you seen the white paper on water cooling on our website? It gives some really good, useful information?:"
well the white paper did not say anything I did not know before and can not really see what it help for these drag racing turbos, no documentation available
somebody here has experience about using them continuously? Help would be highly appreciated!
Honestly, garrett is about the only manufacture that water cools the cartridge. (holset and them probably do, but not as much)
Have you looked into the Borg Warner EFR series?
they look pretty good, on paper at least
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I've never even owned a water cooled turbo. Every piece of machinery and vehicle we own is air cooled and does just fine, even when you add abunch of fuel into the mix.
Honestly, garrett is about the only manufacture that water cools the cartridge. (holset and them probably do, but not as much)
Have you looked into the Borg Warner EFR series?
they look pretty good, on paper at least
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Volvo did use a Garrett GTB2052v in the D5 diesel engine in the past but the cars in Germany that was driven hard on Auto Ban and turn of when they come home did see some problem, cooking the oil in the turbo, after come the GTB2056VL along and that problem was no longer an issue. I have seen several blow up turbo because of cooking oil, specially precision turbos but most because of no patience to let them cool down
if a engine is driven hard and have turbo with journal bearing oil and air cooled, before you stop drive easy or let the engine go for some minutes on idle there properly no problem at all
But if we know look at a turbo with oil and air cooling and use ball bearing as well, the same size, the oil flow will go down about 50% that would mean less cooling with the oil supplied to the turbo
Well I know the efr quite good, EFR7163 is the high pressure turbo and the low pressure turbo is suppose to be a GTX4708R, GTX4508R will have liquid cooled CHRA but it gives to muck back pressure in this set up because the turbine is to small according to the simulation nad I am not interested of waste of that energy, GTX4708R is excellent but is oil and air-cooled. since this is a serie set-up LP turbo will see lower exhaust temperatures, depending on how much is needed to be waste gated from the EFR7163 at top and they will run together all the time.
the GTX4708R's exhaust house is pretty big and massive and will accumulate a lot of heat, Tial do not manufacture, at least not yet a GT47/GTX47 house, I suppose even the inconel 718 turbine wheel is quite heavy only that. And if not that is enough to think about, it is almost ridicules big to hide, only intake is 6" and the weight >25kg, the isentropic efficiency of the compressor can be run in the 80% area most of the time, turbine efficiency said to be around 69% with is not that bad but not like the fabulous GTX5518R's 82%
EFR7163 is not chosen for its isentropic efficiency but its working range and it's higher efficiency at lower U/C ratio compare to normal turbos
Have simulated some BW airwerks but the spool was surprisingly slower and lost interesst of them, havent seen a Holset that I want to try, at least not yet
there of my thinking
(07-10-2014, 07:14 AM)MFSuper90 I've never even owned a water cooled turbo. Every piece of machinery and vehicle we own is air cooled and does just fine, even when you add abunch of fuel into the mix.
Honestly, garrett is about the only manufacture that water cools the cartridge. (holset and them probably do, but not as much)
Have you looked into the Borg Warner EFR series?
they look pretty good, on paper at least
Hi
Volvo did use a Garrett GTB2052v in the D5 diesel engine in the past but the cars in Germany that was driven hard on Auto Ban and turn of when they come home did see some problem, cooking the oil in the turbo, after come the GTB2056VL along and that problem was no longer an issue. I have seen several blow up turbo because of cooking oil, specially precision turbos but most because of no patience to let them cool down
if a engine is driven hard and have turbo with journal bearing oil and air cooled, before you stop drive easy or let the engine go for some minutes on idle there properly no problem at all
But if we know look at a turbo with oil and air cooling and use ball bearing as well, the same size, the oil flow will go down about 50% that would mean less cooling with the oil supplied to the turbo
Well I know the efr quite good, EFR7163 is the high pressure turbo and the low pressure turbo is suppose to be a GTX4708R, GTX4508R will have liquid cooled CHRA but it gives to muck back pressure in this set up because the turbine is to small according to the simulation nad I am not interested of waste of that energy, GTX4708R is excellent but is oil and air-cooled. since this is a serie set-up LP turbo will see lower exhaust temperatures, depending on how much is needed to be waste gated from the EFR7163 at top and they will run together all the time.
the GTX4708R's exhaust house is pretty big and massive and will accumulate a lot of heat, Tial do not manufacture, at least not yet a GT47/GTX47 house, I suppose even the inconel 718 turbine wheel is quite heavy only that. And if not that is enough to think about, it is almost ridicules big to hide, only intake is 6" and the weight >25kg, the isentropic efficiency of the compressor can be run in the 80% area most of the time, turbine efficiency said to be around 69% with is not that bad but not like the fabulous GTX5518R's 82%
EFR7163 is not chosen for its isentropic efficiency but its working range and it's higher efficiency at lower U/C ratio compare to normal turbos
Have simulated some BW airwerks but the spool was surprisingly slower and lost interesst of them, havent seen a Holset that I want to try, at least not yet
there of my thinking
(07-10-2014, 07:14 AM)MFSuper90 I've never even owned a water cooled turbo. Every piece of machinery and vehicle we own is air cooled and does just fine, even when you add abunch of fuel into the mix.
Honestly, garrett is about the only manufacture that water cools the cartridge. (holset and them probably do, but not as much)
Have you looked into the Borg Warner EFR series?
they look pretty good, on paper at least
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