Porting a om60x Engine
Porting a om60x Engine
Planning on rebuilding an old om602 Turbo. While planning out and laying out a list of things to be done also researching i ran into the question on porting. Im hearing mixed thoughts about porting the head especially on a diesel. Although the 2.5 doesn't really have a history in cracking I'm thinking that porting it would weaken it. The finish also is bothering me. The valve ports are definitely going to be polished to a mirror finish but what about the exhaust or intake ports? Some say that leaving a rough finish helps with air turbulence and other picky stuff like that while others say smooth mirror finish isnt always the best.... Either way I was planning to polish it to a mirror finish mainly because it would reduce carbon build-up. Planning of building up a 275-300hp daily om602 so i want to pay attention to everything that can be changed or modded before the pump or increasing the size of the turbo. Also does anyone know what kind of rods i should run I don't feel to comfortable with stock rods in the engine at that hp and for daily use.
-Find the restriction and work around that (typically the bend right after the valves)
-Don't go hod wild, try more for an even diameter or a slight gradual taper
-Don't hog out the mating area, you want the manifolds to more or less match the head. A "pocket" in the first 2" or each would be bad.
-It's OK to make the intake ports slightly larger than teh manifold openings
-It's OK to make the exhaust ports smaller than the manifold openings
-Think even smooth flow, not giant ports
Mirrored isn't worth the time
If you want to go crazy, rig up a shop vac and a vacuum gauge to get even flow.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
08-31-2014, 09:19 AM #2After much reading, these are the tips I've heard in general:
-Find the restriction and work around that (typically the bend right after the valves)
-Don't go hod wild, try more for an even diameter or a slight gradual taper
-Don't hog out the mating area, you want the manifolds to more or less match the head. A "pocket" in the first 2" or each would be bad.
-It's OK to make the intake ports slightly larger than teh manifold openings
-It's OK to make the exhaust ports smaller than the manifold openings
-Think even smooth flow, not giant ports
Mirrored isn't worth the time
If you want to go crazy, rig up a shop vac and a vacuum gauge to get even flow.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
i did that in a 605, its dificult to go better than the engine already his, regarding intake. exaust is very close to the valves and hapens the same.
just polished it (not to a mirror but polished) made some cutting in the elbow of the exaust to made it smoth, and matched the manifold holes.
to check the flow i used a white powder, to me i seemed to be flowing better than it was.
good luck with yours
BTW remember bernouli´s law
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
hy there ,
i did that in a 605, its dificult to go better than the engine already his, regarding intake. exaust is very close to the valves and hapens the same.
just polished it (not to a mirror but polished) made some cutting in the elbow of the exaust to made it smoth, and matched the manifold holes.
to check the flow i used a white powder, to me i seemed to be flowing better than it was.
good luck with yours
BTW remember bernouli´s law
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
. Would definately love to get my hands on one!in my opinion porting is a N/A gasser´s must have not STD´s. just polish and some blueprinting leave u sleeping happy. Boost is a must have for a STD, real boost from 2bar on
well i send u a 605.96X , in Exchange of a 1000€. shipping cost is up to u. 606.96X more less same price.
regarding figures after "porting" i can´t say nothing, lot of changes were made. power increase yes , almost doubled.
regards to Illinois.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
605 engine , is very good regarding flow as stock, there´nt much u can do to get it better.
in my opinion porting is a N/A gasser´s must have not STD´s. just polish and some blueprinting leave u sleeping happy. Boost is a must have for a STD, real boost from 2bar on
well i send u a 605.96X , in Exchange of a 1000€. shipping cost is up to u. 606.96X more less same price.
regarding figures after "porting" i can´t say nothing, lot of changes were made. power increase yes , almost doubled.
regards to Illinois.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
shadowmaker
09-06-2014, 03:38 AM #6We usually get ~30% more flow to 606 with porting and adding bigger valves. Really good head as it is and nothing much to do if not pushing it to the limit.
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
(09-06-2014, 03:38 AM)shadowmaker We usually get ~30% more flow to 606 with porting and adding bigger valves. Really good head as it is and nothing much to do if not pushing it to the limit.
shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
(09-06-2014, 03:38 AM)shadowmaker We usually get ~30% more flow to 606 with porting and adding bigger valves. Really good head as it is and nothing much to do if not pushing it to the limit.
(09-06-2014, 10:22 AM)Turbo shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
My bad.
All out 606 head flows 30% more than original 603 head, but only 15% more than original 606.
All out 603 head flows 3% more than original 606.
My friend does our heads as he has done this for living for the past 30 years plus he always thinks "outside the box".
shadowmaker
09-09-2014, 07:49 AM #9(09-06-2014, 10:22 AM)Turbo shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
My bad.
All out 606 head flows 30% more than original 603 head, but only 15% more than original 606.
All out 603 head flows 3% more than original 606.
My friend does our heads as he has done this for living for the past 30 years plus he always thinks "outside the box".
perhapes you can watch your pm and get back to me
BR
(09-09-2014, 07:49 AM)shadowmaker(09-06-2014, 10:22 AM)Turbo shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
My bad.
All out 606 head flows 30% more than original 603 head, but only 15% more than original 606.
All out 603 head flows 3% more than original 606.
My friend does our heads as he has done this for living for the past 30 years plus he always thinks "outside the box".
shadomaker
perhapes you can watch your pm and get back to me
BR
(09-09-2014, 07:49 AM)shadowmaker(09-06-2014, 10:22 AM)Turbo shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
My bad.
All out 606 head flows 30% more than original 603 head, but only 15% more than original 606.
All out 603 head flows 3% more than original 606.
My friend does our heads as he has done this for living for the past 30 years plus he always thinks "outside the box".
(09-09-2014, 07:49 AM)shadowmaker(09-06-2014, 10:22 AM)Turbo shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
My bad.
All out 606 head flows 30% more than original 603 head, but only 15% more than original 606.
All out 603 head flows 3% more than original 606.
My friend does our heads as he has done this for living for the past 30 years plus he always thinks "outside the box".
I've had my 606 head gas flowed by Ric Woods http://www.ricwood.com/race_engines.html @ CNCheads in the UK. I haven't run the head yet (they did the cams too) so no direct feedback, but you can see some of the work on my flickr account https://www.flickr.com/photos/benstoneha...345602082/ maybe this would help to see, I can take more photos if you are interested
"Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess." Oscar Wilde
(09-09-2014, 07:49 AM)shadowmaker(09-06-2014, 10:22 AM)Turbo shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
My bad.
All out 606 head flows 30% more than original 603 head, but only 15% more than original 606.
All out 603 head flows 3% more than original 606.
My friend does our heads as he has done this for living for the past 30 years plus he always thinks "outside the box".
I've had my 606 head gas flowed by Ric Woods http://www.ricwood.com/race_engines.html @ CNCheads in the UK. I haven't run the head yet (they did the cams too) so no direct feedback, but you can see some of the work on my flickr account https://www.flickr.com/photos/benstoneha...345602082/ maybe this would help to see, I can take more photos if you are interested
"Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess." Oscar Wilde
(09-11-2014, 04:16 PM)fcpHoly cow, impressive pics, what have you planned for the engine?(09-09-2014, 07:49 AM)shadowmaker(09-06-2014, 10:22 AM)Turbo shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
My bad.
All out 606 head flows 30% more than original 603 head, but only 15% more than original 606.
All out 603 head flows 3% more than original 606.
My friend does our heads as he has done this for living for the past 30 years plus he always thinks "outside the box".
I've had my 606 head gas flowed by Ric Woods http://www.ricwood.com/race_engines.html @ CNCheads in the UK. I haven't run the head yet (they did the cams too) so no direct feedback, but you can see some of the work on my flickr account https://www.flickr.com/photos/benstoneha...345602082/ maybe this would help to see, I can take more photos if you are interested
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
maxypriest
09-11-2014, 04:50 PM #12(09-11-2014, 04:16 PM)fcpHoly cow, impressive pics, what have you planned for the engine?(09-09-2014, 07:49 AM)shadowmaker(09-06-2014, 10:22 AM)Turbo shadowmaker
who sell those kind of head finished, spoke with BBT motorsport, but maybe you have a better suggestion?
BR
My bad.
All out 606 head flows 30% more than original 603 head, but only 15% more than original 606.
All out 603 head flows 3% more than original 606.
My friend does our heads as he has done this for living for the past 30 years plus he always thinks "outside the box".
I've had my 606 head gas flowed by Ric Woods http://www.ricwood.com/race_engines.html @ CNCheads in the UK. I haven't run the head yet (they did the cams too) so no direct feedback, but you can see some of the work on my flickr account https://www.flickr.com/photos/benstoneha...345602082/ maybe this would help to see, I can take more photos if you are interested
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
---Thanks guys for replying so quickly and being so helpful. Im only 19 and planning to take on a huge project. Especially in america where information and parts are scarce on the 5 cylinder 20v
Barrote, or anyone else... What is the economy of the om605? Is it better than my trusty om602 10v. I know the 20v will be smoother, quicker, and more powerful but will the economy be better or worse? If say for example a mechanical pump from a om602 would be swapped would it keep the same economy as from the om602? Overall the om605 should be very identical to the om602.. almost identical mainly differing in the amount of valves. Therefore it should be as simple as working on the o602 . I like the simplicity of the om602 but is the om605 really that more complicated/difficult to work on?
---Thanks guys for replying so quickly and being so helpful. Im only 19 and planning to take on a huge project. Especially in america where information and parts are scarce on the 5 cylinder 20v
is easy to work on, very easy to understand too , german engenering, at its most, this type of engines came when almost every brand was changing to Direct Injected engines, wether common rail, or TDI. so i belive is the end of an era, with all the knowledge inside.
if u are aquainted with engine eficiency, economy, we must talk as specific fuel consupsion, ltr/kW by hour or kms made in one hour.
if u take a IP from 602 engine max fueling rated at 32cc, 602 engine will ofer u 80kw, 605 will ofer 90kw.
IP rated max fueling at 42cc , in a 602 will ofer 90kw , and a 605 120kw, and is not only that , a 602 at 42cc will be very close to stock limit, and a 605 will handle in stock configuration as most as 60cc, witch will alow 150kw.
hope u have your answear regarding economy. (heavy foot equation
)post questions will keep u going.
regards.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
the diff btw a 602 and 605, is not only 2 valves by cylinder, is the same as changing from piston engine to turbojet in na aircraft.
is easy to work on, very easy to understand too , german engenering, at its most, this type of engines came when almost every brand was changing to Direct Injected engines, wether common rail, or TDI. so i belive is the end of an era, with all the knowledge inside.
if u are aquainted with engine eficiency, economy, we must talk as specific fuel consupsion, ltr/kW by hour or kms made in one hour.
if u take a IP from 602 engine max fueling rated at 32cc, 602 engine will ofer u 80kw, 605 will ofer 90kw.
IP rated max fueling at 42cc , in a 602 will ofer 90kw , and a 605 120kw, and is not only that , a 602 at 42cc will be very close to stock limit, and a 605 will handle in stock configuration as most as 60cc, witch will alow 150kw.
hope u have your answear regarding economy. (heavy foot equation )
post questions will keep u going.
regards.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
(09-14-2014, 03:40 PM)barrote the diff btw a 602 and 605, is not only 2 valves by cylinder, is the same as changing from piston engine to turbojet in na aircraft.
is easy to work on, very easy to understand too , german engenering, at its most, this type of engines came when almost every brand was changing to Direct Injected engines, wether common rail, or TDI. so i belive is the end of an era, with all the knowledge inside.
if u are aquainted with engine eficiency, economy, we must talk as specific fuel consupsion, ltr/kW by hour or kms made in one hour.
if u take a IP from 602 engine max fueling rated at 32cc, 602 engine will ofer u 80kw, 605 will ofer 90kw.
IP rated max fueling at 42cc , in a 602 will ofer 90kw , and a 605 120kw, and is not only that , a 602 at 42cc will be very close to stock limit, and a 605 will handle in stock configuration as most as 60cc, witch will alow 150kw.
hope u have your answear regarding economy. (heavy foot equation
post questions will keep u going.
regards.
So pretty much I am limiting the om605's Hp and overall out with a stock om602 IP correct?
The om605 would run on the om602 pump but pretty much at the stock limit. Either way to use the potential of the om605 i would have to modify the elements inside my om602 pump (Bosch m pump or ve??). Probably to 6.5 or 7mm to increase overall stock fuel delivery from 42cc to about roughly 60-75 correct? I'm roughly understanding that the om605 is more efficient in power usage. As for the heavy foot equation lol I simply have to keep off the pedal to keep economy high. Thankyou barrote! for the detailed response
(09-14-2014, 03:40 PM)barrote the diff btw a 602 and 605, is not only 2 valves by cylinder, is the same as changing from piston engine to turbojet in na aircraft.
is easy to work on, very easy to understand too , german engenering, at its most, this type of engines came when almost every brand was changing to Direct Injected engines, wether common rail, or TDI. so i belive is the end of an era, with all the knowledge inside.
if u are aquainted with engine eficiency, economy, we must talk as specific fuel consupsion, ltr/kW by hour or kms made in one hour.
if u take a IP from 602 engine max fueling rated at 32cc, 602 engine will ofer u 80kw, 605 will ofer 90kw.
IP rated max fueling at 42cc , in a 602 will ofer 90kw , and a 605 120kw, and is not only that , a 602 at 42cc will be very close to stock limit, and a 605 will handle in stock configuration as most as 60cc, witch will alow 150kw.
hope u have your answear regarding economy. (heavy foot equation
post questions will keep u going.
regards.
So pretty much I am limiting the om605's Hp and overall out with a stock om602 IP correct?
The om605 would run on the om602 pump but pretty much at the stock limit. Either way to use the potential of the om605 i would have to modify the elements inside my om602 pump (Bosch m pump or ve??). Probably to 6.5 or 7mm to increase overall stock fuel delivery from 42cc to about roughly 60-75 correct? I'm roughly understanding that the om605 is more efficient in power usage. As for the heavy foot equation lol I simply have to keep off the pedal to keep economy high. Thankyou barrote! for the detailed response
, neutral when downhill , ect. that kind, for a US citizen u´re woried about MPG , hard to belive!!! try this diesel in here is 1.40€ average.usualy on a 602 u find a IP like this , PES5M 55 C320 RS XXX, that is a M series with 5,5 mm injector. u can achieve lets say 60cc, but the injection will take 10º exemple, 70cc will take 15º. up to the limit wich i dont know what is.
the idea behind bigger elements is having the same amount of fuel in less time (IP crankshaft degree´s)
for instance if u change the elements just to 6mm u can have the same fuel in less time, besides the max capacity will increase.
from what i´ve heard around , and read the 7.5 mm is the best size element for time and amount of fuel.
70cc is what is needed for 180kw, and then u have max rpm , max load thru rpm range.
ALDA device , boost wich is mandatory , serious boost like from 2BAR on.
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
yep , control the foot , neutral when downhill , ect. that kind, for a US citizen u´re woried about MPG , hard to belive!!! try this diesel in here is 1.40€ average.
usualy on a 602 u find a IP like this , PES5M 55 C320 RS XXX, that is a M series with 5,5 mm injector. u can achieve lets say 60cc, but the injection will take 10º exemple, 70cc will take 15º. up to the limit wich i dont know what is.
the idea behind bigger elements is having the same amount of fuel in less time (IP crankshaft degree´s)
for instance if u change the elements just to 6mm u can have the same fuel in less time, besides the max capacity will increase.
from what i´ve heard around , and read the 7.5 mm is the best size element for time and amount of fuel.
70cc is what is needed for 180kw, and then u have max rpm , max load thru rpm range.
ALDA device , boost wich is mandatory , serious boost like from 2BAR on.
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
. Also i go to school and pay my own bills . Anyways, thank you for the quick reply! Wouldn't the Alda have to be removed when getting bigger elements? Main issue is because if the Alda would be removed wouldn't it be easier for the engine to smoke or would I just have to balance the fuel to air mixture correctly? I know performance and economy do not got together very well
but i was wondering if there is anyway I can limit my IP dynamically. Meaning if i installed the 7.5mm and was producing big boost and putting down +300hp would it be possible to mechanically limit the pump? I do have a lead foot and i do sometimes get carried away. Would it be possible to somehow limit the IP to a set amount of HP and when i need the extra bit of power i can always pop the front of my car and change up some things on the pump? Sorry you might think these are silly questions but i'm trying to save as much money and i'm collecting parts now
I grew up in Poland so I do always think conservatively . Also i go to school and pay my own bills . Anyways, thank you for the quick reply! Wouldn't the Alda have to be removed when getting bigger elements? Main issue is because if the Alda would be removed wouldn't it be easier for the engine to smoke or would I just have to balance the fuel to air mixture correctly? I know performance and economy do not got together very well but i was wondering if there is anyway I can limit my IP dynamically. Meaning if i installed the 7.5mm and was producing big boost and putting down +300hp would it be possible to mechanically limit the pump? I do have a lead foot and i do sometimes get carried away. Would it be possible to somehow limit the IP to a set amount of HP and when i need the extra bit of power i can always pop the front of my car and change up some things on the pump? Sorry you might think these are silly questions but i'm trying to save as much money and i'm collecting parts now
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thre...table-ALDA
raysorenson
09-15-2014, 05:28 PM #18Goran makes a stop lever alda that seems to work well with big elements. It can also be used to adjust max fuel. My pump is set at 140cc but Dieselmeken's alda is set to limit fuel to 90cc.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thre...table-ALDA
(09-11-2014, 04:16 PM)fcp I've had my 606 head gas flowed by Ric Woods http://www.ricwood.com/race_engines.html @ CNCheads in the UK. I haven't run the head yet (they did the cams too) so no direct feedback, but you can see some of the work on my flickr account https://www.flickr.com/photos/benstoneha...345602082/ maybe this would help to see, I can take more photos if you are interested
YESSSSS!!! MOARRRR! HNNNNNGGGG...
Sporting some serious wood over here, SRSLY 8-D
MBZ123
This discussion has me riveted. Keep the posts coming good sirs.
(09-11-2014, 04:16 PM)fcp I've had my 606 head gas flowed by Ric Woods http://www.ricwood.com/race_engines.html @ CNCheads in the UK. I haven't run the head yet (they did the cams too) so no direct feedback, but you can see some of the work on my flickr account https://www.flickr.com/photos/benstoneha...345602082/ maybe this would help to see, I can take more photos if you are interested
YESSSSS!!! MOARRRR! HNNNNNGGGG...
Sporting some serious wood over here, SRSLY 8-D
MBZ123
(09-15-2014, 05:06 PM)Ekstra Wouldn't the Alda have to be removed when getting bigger elements?
balance the fuel to air mixture correctly?
ALDA, is to be on the pump.
ALDA is a device intended to prevent overfuel the engine with low boost or no boost thence to avoid black smoke.
Diesel engines work lean, always lean, when there´s overfuel u can see it as smoke down the exaust, cause of that no power will be gained.
Unfortunatly diesel pumps are the engine secret, there´s no special engine tunning, in diesel there is IP tunning. Besies changing some O rings theres nothing u can do in a inline pump without a bench test and some knowledge.
Element size has nothing to do with the pump governor, is the GOV wich makes idle, max fuel, max RPM, cut away fuel, start fuel, this are montrous words u got to know regarding IP tunning.
Element size determines injection ability, therefore it is necessary to change elements to have diferent abilities in your IP.
A 7.5mm element change your pump ability to output 60cc in 10º ie, whereas a 5.5 can only inject 30cc in 10º. 60cc is he amout of fuel injected in 100 or 1000 strokes, in cubic centimeters, but no one i know is counting 1000 stokes , usually bench test count 100 strokes.
The GOV, is the tricky thing, geting idle, return to idle, max fuel delivery, cut away fuel, and max RPM, working toghether like a swiss watch, is the reason why a dieselmeken tunning cost 1500EUR.
in my case i´m still strugling to get my GOV in max fuel from 1.5kRPM to 6K RPM.
is time for some googling!!!
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
(09-15-2014, 05:06 PM)Ekstra Wouldn't the Alda have to be removed when getting bigger elements?
balance the fuel to air mixture correctly?
ALDA, is to be on the pump.
ALDA is a device intended to prevent overfuel the engine with low boost or no boost thence to avoid black smoke.
Diesel engines work lean, always lean, when there´s overfuel u can see it as smoke down the exaust, cause of that no power will be gained.
Unfortunatly diesel pumps are the engine secret, there´s no special engine tunning, in diesel there is IP tunning. Besies changing some O rings theres nothing u can do in a inline pump without a bench test and some knowledge.
Element size has nothing to do with the pump governor, is the GOV wich makes idle, max fuel, max RPM, cut away fuel, start fuel, this are montrous words u got to know regarding IP tunning.
Element size determines injection ability, therefore it is necessary to change elements to have diferent abilities in your IP.
A 7.5mm element change your pump ability to output 60cc in 10º ie, whereas a 5.5 can only inject 30cc in 10º. 60cc is he amout of fuel injected in 100 or 1000 strokes, in cubic centimeters, but no one i know is counting 1000 stokes , usually bench test count 100 strokes.
The GOV, is the tricky thing, geting idle, return to idle, max fuel delivery, cut away fuel, and max RPM, working toghether like a swiss watch, is the reason why a dieselmeken tunning cost 1500EUR.
in my case i´m still strugling to get my GOV in max fuel from 1.5kRPM to 6K RPM.
is time for some googling!!!
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
10 Guest(s)
10 Guest(s)