Shutoff box deletion
Shutoff box deletion
10-20-2014, 01:09 PM
#1
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Hello! As I am slowly getting my OM605 ready for standalone ECU, the need for deletion of some "things" is urging. First to be dishonorable thrown to garbage bin is that black plastic thingy on the side of an EDC pump. Also it will allow me to get rid of original crazy fuel plumbing which have more than enough leak-prone joints to my liking. Actually it draws massive ammount of air even now, also at iddle.. no way this is good for diesel pump. My idea is to get rid of all that unnecessary shit. So fuel from tank straight to pre-pump, then under low pressure route it to classic filter with two pipes nothing more, and then into HP pump inlet. Outlet of the pump straight into tank with injectors line. The question now is, how to get that plastic nonsene out of here? Have any one done this? I see options as this: dummy plate (dimmensions unknown), thread holes (dimensions of holes uknown, risk of destroying the pump with Al chips), insert O-ringed tube (4 less joints than original). So what do you people think? Main problem for me is that I drive car daily and dont have EDC pump to play with on bench.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
10-20-2014, 02:40 PM
#3
If anyone have even diameter of that hole that would help me out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Yes, it will hang there with its wire so imobiliser wont give me troubles. As far as I know, it not even used for engine shutoff (like VE pumps), thats handled by rack movement into no-fuel position. It just blocks the pumps feed when imobiliser tells it to. But how to plumb fuel input on to pump.
If anyone have even diameter of that hole that would help me out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
10-20-2014, 04:46 PM
#4
(10-20-2014, 02:40 PM)starynovy Yes, it will hang there with its wire so imobiliser wont give me troubles. As far as I know, it not even used for engine shutoff (like VE pumps), thats handled by rack movement into no-fuel position. It just blocks the pumps feed when imobiliser tells it to. But how to plumb fuel input on to pump.
If anyone have even diameter of that hole that would help me out.
Like you, I would like to eliminate the shutoff valve. It serves no real purpose since the injection pump returns to zero when power is removed.
The shutoff valve is closed until the ECU opens it. I think that when it is closed the fuel path is simply re-routed back to the lift pump inlet. Remember that there is a fuel temperature sensor in the shut off valve. The ECU will get upset if the fuel temperature is way out of range (i.e. left floating in the engine compartment in the winter).
(10-20-2014, 02:40 PM)starynovy Yes, it will hang there with its wire so imobiliser wont give me troubles. As far as I know, it not even used for engine shutoff (like VE pumps), thats handled by rack movement into no-fuel position. It just blocks the pumps feed when imobiliser tells it to. But how to plumb fuel input on to pump.
If anyone have even diameter of that hole that would help me out.
Like you, I would like to eliminate the shutoff valve. It serves no real purpose since the injection pump returns to zero when power is removed.
The shutoff valve is closed until the ECU opens it. I think that when it is closed the fuel path is simply re-routed back to the lift pump inlet. Remember that there is a fuel temperature sensor in the shut off valve. The ECU will get upset if the fuel temperature is way out of range (i.e. left floating in the engine compartment in the winter).
10-21-2014, 12:09 AM
#5
You can fool ECU by putting resistor with desired value in place of NTC temp. pickup. Temperature of diesel alters injection quantiny veery slightly according to evaluated fuel density at that temperature so you might just as well simulate -20°C all the time, you should get more fuel. You won´t upset timing as this is purely mechanical matter-thank god.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Yes and if it gets broken which it does, you´re taking a bus. You can fool ECU by putting resistor with desired value in place of NTC temp. pickup. Temperature of diesel alters injection quantiny veery slightly according to evaluated fuel density at that temperature so you might just as well simulate -20°C all the time, you should get more fuel. You won´t upset timing as this is purely mechanical matter-thank god.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
10-21-2014, 12:50 PM
#7
(10-21-2014, 08:00 AM)baldur What standalone ECU are you planning on using?
Demons, but it lack support for HDK position sensors which ERE pump uses. Also newer design VE pumps. So I am working on a circuitry which will make usefull signal from the pump, and the programmer/author will make code compatible. If only I had more time, it could have been runing already.
For me mechanicaly governed pumps are things of past, for moderate power.. well maybe. But for Hi-powered aplications that smoke becomes unbearable.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(10-21-2014, 08:00 AM)baldur What standalone ECU are you planning on using?
Demons, but it lack support for HDK position sensors which ERE pump uses. Also newer design VE pumps. So I am working on a circuitry which will make usefull signal from the pump, and the programmer/author will make code compatible. If only I had more time, it could have been runing already.
For me mechanicaly governed pumps are things of past, for moderate power.. well maybe. But for Hi-powered aplications that smoke becomes unbearable.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
10-22-2014, 05:53 AM
#8
(10-21-2014, 12:50 PM)starynovy(10-21-2014, 08:00 AM)baldur What standalone ECU are you planning on using?
Demons, but it lack support for HDK position sensors which ERE pump uses. Also newer design VE pumps. So I am working on a circuitry which will make usefull signal from the pump, and the programmer/author will make code compatible. If only I had more time, it could have been runing already.
For me mechanicaly governed pumps are things of past, for moderate power.. well maybe. But for Hi-powered aplications that smoke becomes unbearable.
Agreed, and the mechanical governors are difficult to get tuned for best performance at every RPM and throttle position without excessive smoke. I'm working on adapting an electronic governor M pump to my OM662, which I might then get converted to superpump elements.
This post was last modified: 10-22-2014, 05:53 AM by baldur.
Baldur Gislason
(10-21-2014, 12:50 PM)starynovy(10-21-2014, 08:00 AM)baldur What standalone ECU are you planning on using?
Demons, but it lack support for HDK position sensors which ERE pump uses. Also newer design VE pumps. So I am working on a circuitry which will make usefull signal from the pump, and the programmer/author will make code compatible. If only I had more time, it could have been runing already.
For me mechanicaly governed pumps are things of past, for moderate power.. well maybe. But for Hi-powered aplications that smoke becomes unbearable.
Agreed, and the mechanical governors are difficult to get tuned for best performance at every RPM and throttle position without excessive smoke. I'm working on adapting an electronic governor M pump to my OM662, which I might then get converted to superpump elements.
Baldur Gislason
10-22-2014, 06:46 AM
#9
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
The fuel shutoff valve is bolted over the IP fuel inlet so the delete is not so simple, can't cut thread for AN fitings as you annot de-swarf the IP fuel manifold inside, some kind of 'adaptor plate'?
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
10-22-2014, 11:39 AM
#10
(10-22-2014, 06:46 AM)Hario The fuel shutoff valve is bolted over the IP fuel inlet so the delete is not so simple, can't cut thread for AN fitings as you annot de-swarf the IP fuel manifold inside, some kind of 'adaptor plate'?
Seems the only way, or insert O-ringed tubing as the original box does and bolt to the pump. I hoped someone would provide dimensions or some foto with numbers so I can prefabricate something but it looks like everyone went for mecha pump instead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(10-22-2014, 06:46 AM)Hario The fuel shutoff valve is bolted over the IP fuel inlet so the delete is not so simple, can't cut thread for AN fitings as you annot de-swarf the IP fuel manifold inside, some kind of 'adaptor plate'?
Seems the only way, or insert O-ringed tubing as the original box does and bolt to the pump. I hoped someone would provide dimensions or some foto with numbers so I can prefabricate something but it looks like everyone went for mecha pump instead.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
10-22-2014, 01:19 PM
#11
raysorenson
10-22-2014, 01:19 PM #11One idea for smoke control on a mechanical pump would be using the 0-5v output on a wideband controller as the input for a boost solenoid controller that reduces boost to the alda when A/F ratio gets too rich. Simpler than an entire standalone system.
10-23-2014, 12:57 AM
#12
(10-22-2014, 01:19 PM)raysorenson One idea for smoke control on a mechanical pump would be using the 0-5v output on a wideband controller as the input for a boost solenoid controller that reduces boost to the alda when A/F ratio gets too rich. Simpler than an entire standalone system.
Indeed it is, but I can build that system for a buck and stock pump stays. If you aim for 250PS you should get away with connecting some ten of wires and you are good to go, smoke free. And you have torque limiter, smoke limiter, classic max. fueling map, cold start RPMs so on so on... But still its electronic, and it can fail. The thing I liked about mech. pumps was reliability, as long as there is fuel, the thing goes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(10-22-2014, 01:19 PM)raysorenson One idea for smoke control on a mechanical pump would be using the 0-5v output on a wideband controller as the input for a boost solenoid controller that reduces boost to the alda when A/F ratio gets too rich. Simpler than an entire standalone system.
Indeed it is, but I can build that system for a buck and stock pump stays. If you aim for 250PS you should get away with connecting some ten of wires and you are good to go, smoke free. And you have torque limiter, smoke limiter, classic max. fueling map, cold start RPMs so on so on... But still its electronic, and it can fail. The thing I liked about mech. pumps was reliability, as long as there is fuel, the thing goes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
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