VNT / VGT Stand alone Controllers
VNT / VGT Stand alone Controllers
From what I have read, they currently have a standalone controller available for Garrett VGT's in the $900 price range. They have one in the works for Holset's for about $500.
While this is considerably more money than the mechanical control available now, they do offer some advantages, so it appears. The controller needs some sort of TPS, MAP and RPM input to work. All three of these are either readily available or easy to add to our engines. This plus instant control of turbo setting is great.
What are your thoughts?
Scott
You Tube Video of Fleece Perfromance Truck with Standalone Controller
4BT thread on Controllers
I haven't see any mention of Fleece Performance's standalone VNT controller on here yet.
From what I have read, they currently have a standalone controller available for Garrett VGT's in the $900 price range. They have one in the works for Holset's for about $500.
While this is considerably more money than the mechanical control available now, they do offer some advantages, so it appears. The controller needs some sort of TPS, MAP and RPM input to work. All three of these are either readily available or easy to add to our engines. This plus instant control of turbo setting is great.
What are your thoughts?
Scott
You Tube Video of Fleece Perfromance Truck with Standalone Controller
4BT thread on Controllers
$900 is way out of my price range, when finished, I'd estimate you could build my design for about $50 with plenty of free samples from chip makers...
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
I'm currently working designing a similar system, good bit of info here, http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/garr...t-614.html
$900 is way out of my price range, when finished, I'd estimate you could build my design for about $50 with plenty of free samples from chip makers...
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
ForcedInduction
01-11-2010, 04:08 PM
#3
The 341ve controller would be very simple. Its just a 12vDC motor with a TPS on the main rod's gear.
ForcedInduction
01-12-2010, 04:57 AM
#4
How about megasquirt? If it can control up to 16 injectors a single turbo shouldn't be much of a problem.
In the video, notice also that when the vanes are largely closed, the rpms of the engine start to drop, and you can hear the engine strain a bit. This is due to the power consumption/drive pressure of the exhaust; too much charge pressure does not come free.
(01-12-2010, 04:57 AM)ForcedInduction How about megasquirt? If it can control up to 16 injectors a single turbo shouldn't be much of a problem.
DervTuning
01-12-2010, 09:17 AM #5Exactly, if you are going to spend that kind of money, use an EMS (like MS, etc) for 3D control of the VGT. Granted, most of the other functions will not be used, but at least they would be available should the need arise
In the video, notice also that when the vanes are largely closed, the rpms of the engine start to drop, and you can hear the engine strain a bit. This is due to the power consumption/drive pressure of the exhaust; too much charge pressure does not come free.
(01-12-2010, 04:57 AM)ForcedInduction How about megasquirt? If it can control up to 16 injectors a single turbo shouldn't be much of a problem.
(01-12-2010, 04:57 AM)ForcedInduction How about megasquirt? If it can control up to 16 injectors a single turbo shouldn't be much of a problem.
Because the software isn't designed to control a turbo! It's designed to control injectors.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(01-12-2010, 04:57 AM)ForcedInduction How about megasquirt? If it can control up to 16 injectors a single turbo shouldn't be much of a problem.
Because the software isn't designed to control a turbo! It's designed to control injectors.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
ForcedInduction
01-12-2010, 12:23 PM
#8
But MS is "CAN enabled" so it should be able to talk to it if you write the right code.
(01-12-2010, 12:23 PM)ForcedInduction if you write the right code.
Exactly
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(01-12-2010, 12:23 PM)ForcedInduction if you write the right code.
Exactly
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
Our controller has a fully calibratable map that is able to be reprogrammed via USB realtime. You can also "scale" the sensors to the axes in the software it's actually quite powerful. Our software also allows you to watch the cell in the lookup table realtime much like other high end realtime calibration tools. It makes creating a boost map for your particular setup very quick and easy.
mbenzo300td
03-08-2010, 12:01 AM #11Forgive my electrical noob question, but does anyone or can anyone make a standalone or some sort of engine management hub that would support various sensors vnt and plug into a small lcd or headunit.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
There are plenty of threads on this or similar projects. Hella contoller, VGT controller and drive by wire come to mind. I am getting back to more of a normal schedule myself and will start having a few hours a day to myself again, chomping at the bit to get my hella actuator moving fwd.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(03-08-2010, 03:14 PM)INC Its from BMW E60 3.0 diesel ECU code
Here better resolution with table.
If you need from some other european car just ask
That's very interesting information there. I'm having a hard time figuring out the table axis and data though.. concerning the table in the 2nd pic: rows are engine rpm i suppose, but what are the columns (mg/r??) and what's the data in the cells referring to?
thanks!
on a more generic topic: are there any updates on ANY of those standalone / DIY controllers for the Hella actuators?
(03-08-2010, 03:14 PM)INC Its from BMW E60 3.0 diesel ECU code
Here better resolution with table.
If you need from some other european car just ask
That's very interesting information there. I'm having a hard time figuring out the table axis and data though.. concerning the table in the 2nd pic: rows are engine rpm i suppose, but what are the columns (mg/r??) and what's the data in the cells referring to?
thanks!
on a more generic topic: are there any updates on ANY of those standalone / DIY controllers for the Hella actuators?
INC, are you not worried about posting winols screenshots on a public forum?
raysorenson
07-17-2012, 02:26 PM #19MG/R could be milligram per revs which would be a fuel delivery rate. The y axis could be decimal values, possibly translating to a PWM value. Just a guess. I've spent many hours trying to translate maps in this program. It's difficult without the .ols file.
INC, are you not worried about posting winols screenshots on a public forum?
lost in the diesel universe.............
I'm not sure how to put this, but should be sth like this: default map for the controller to be a map working with TPS/RPM , if TPS > RPM (at least 6% more, to avoid vanes movment when cruising) then vanes should be closed up to a boost limit, else TPS<=RPM , vanes open down to a set up EMP value for good fuel economy while cruising,and quick enough response when accelerating.And of course an EGT failsafe input that overwrites the rest and open vanes if too high. I'm not a programmer, I just came up with the idea ,what do u think guys?
lost in the diesel universe.............
(01-22-2015, 04:16 AM)raidaru I'm not sure how to put this, but should be sth like this: default map for the controller to be a map working with TPS/RPM , if TPS > RPM (at least 6% more, to avoid vanes movment when cruising) then vanes should be closed up to a boost limit, else TPS<=RPM , vanes open down to a set up EMP value for good fuel economy while cruising,and quick enough response when accelerating.And of course an EGT failsafe input that overwrites the rest and open vanes if too high. I'm not a programmer, I just came up with the idea ,what do u think guys?I Would say that you can NOT just keep the vanes closed until you have desired Boost,
That would make a lot of back pressure, and the engine would fell weary unhappy to take RPM.
When Crusing you would like to have The wanes in a position that just make as little back pressure as possible = Economy.
When you make 100% TPS you want to close the vanes but not to mutch to make the EGP to High.
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(01-22-2015, 04:16 AM)raidaru I'm not sure how to put this, but should be sth like this: default map for the controller to be a map working with TPS/RPM , if TPS > RPM (at least 6% more, to avoid vanes movment when cruising) then vanes should be closed up to a boost limit, else TPS<=RPM , vanes open down to a set up EMP value for good fuel economy while cruising,and quick enough response when accelerating.And of course an EGT failsafe input that overwrites the rest and open vanes if too high. I'm not a programmer, I just came up with the idea ,what do u think guys?I Would say that you can NOT just keep the vanes closed until you have desired Boost,
That would make a lot of back pressure, and the engine would fell weary unhappy to take RPM.
When Crusing you would like to have The wanes in a position that just make as little back pressure as possible = Economy.
When you make 100% TPS you want to close the vanes but not to mutch to make the EGP to High.
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
(01-22-2015, 10:12 AM)olefejerYes, you are rhight, EMP variable should also have a set limit, not only boost. But as for vanes to open to a certain level when cruising u need to tell the controller when car is cruising, and u can't do that unless u have a raport between TPS and RPM, can u implement all what I said and all what u said in a simple controller(no gearbox included)? It would be nice to have a final version to work as good as possible!(01-22-2015, 04:16 AM)raidaru I'm not sure how to put this, but should be sth like this: default map for the controller to be a map working with TPS/RPM , if TPS > RPM (at least 6% more, to avoid vanes movment when cruising) then vanes should be closed up to a boost limit, else TPS<=RPM , vanes open down to a set up EMP value for good fuel economy while cruising,and quick enough response when accelerating.And of course an EGT failsafe input that overwrites the rest and open vanes if too high. I'm not a programmer, I just came up with the idea ,what do u think guys?I Would say that you can NOT just keep the vanes closed until you have desired Boost,
That would make a lot of back pressure, and the engine would fell weary unhappy to take RPM.
When Crusing you would like to have The wanes in a position that just make as little back pressure as possible = Economy.
When you make 100% TPS you want to close the vanes but not to mutch to make the EGP to High.
lost in the diesel universe.............
(01-22-2015, 10:12 AM)olefejerYes, you are rhight, EMP variable should also have a set limit, not only boost. But as for vanes to open to a certain level when cruising u need to tell the controller when car is cruising, and u can't do that unless u have a raport between TPS and RPM, can u implement all what I said and all what u said in a simple controller(no gearbox included)? It would be nice to have a final version to work as good as possible!(01-22-2015, 04:16 AM)raidaru I'm not sure how to put this, but should be sth like this: default map for the controller to be a map working with TPS/RPM , if TPS > RPM (at least 6% more, to avoid vanes movment when cruising) then vanes should be closed up to a boost limit, else TPS<=RPM , vanes open down to a set up EMP value for good fuel economy while cruising,and quick enough response when accelerating.And of course an EGT failsafe input that overwrites the rest and open vanes if too high. I'm not a programmer, I just came up with the idea ,what do u think guys?I Would say that you can NOT just keep the vanes closed until you have desired Boost,
That would make a lot of back pressure, and the engine would fell weary unhappy to take RPM.
When Crusing you would like to have The wanes in a position that just make as little back pressure as possible = Economy.
When you make 100% TPS you want to close the vanes but not to mutch to make the EGP to High.
lost in the diesel universe.............
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=33782.0
yorkshire1
01-22-2015, 12:25 PM #23dont know whether this is of any interest its an article I came across recently
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=33782.0
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