My power dilemma?
My power dilemma?
01-24-2015, 12:59 PM
#1
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
So I have a 1987 300 SDL that I have swapped an OM606 in and have a 722.633 transmission in it. I am currently running a Hx40 billet wheel cold side and a HX35 hot side, its a BD deisel 16cm housing. I have a deiselmeken 7.5mm element pump and I think it was setup for 160cc of fuel for roughly 450hp. Currently I am getting only 20psi of boost and I have somewhere like 38psi of exhaust back pressure. I can floor the car and run through 1-3 but by 3rd gear my EGT's are going to hit 700c so I let off. I am running direct port water injection also and currently have no wastegate. I need more power! I realise now that maybe I should go to a HX40 hotside and that may help me get more boost from having a bigger wheel with more "leverage" on the cold side. My other option is putting an eaton M90 on the intake but the problem with that is it wont be intercooled so I am wondering what that will get me. I do like the idea of that because with this auto and its low stall converter it would get me going quicker. My other option is going compound but in my other vehicle that is setup compound the spool up time isnt that great, not terrible but not the greatest though its a gas vehicle. Lastly I have thought about nitrous but I figure bottles are for babies so I want to use that as a last resort. I want to keep my AC so mounting a supercharger my spaces are limited but I do feel I can mount it high up on the intake. Any input please?
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
01-24-2015, 01:04 PM
#2
Ed
yankneck696
01-24-2015, 01:04 PM #2With the higher drive pressure, I am wondering if the exhaust manifold is your issue?
Ed
01-24-2015, 04:16 PM
#4
(01-24-2015, 01:32 PM)raysorenson What manifold are you using if you have a t3 flange?
I modified the stock manifold with an elbow and T3 flange. I have the EBP sensor in #4 runner.
I opened the manifold as much as I could and used the T3 flange from my 603. It actually looked like it worked out pretty nicely.
This post was last modified: 01-24-2015, 04:18 PM by TurboTim.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
(01-24-2015, 01:32 PM)raysorenson What manifold are you using if you have a t3 flange?
I modified the stock manifold with an elbow and T3 flange. I have the EBP sensor in #4 runner.
I opened the manifold as much as I could and used the T3 flange from my 603. It actually looked like it worked out pretty nicely.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
01-24-2015, 06:24 PM
#5
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I've never been a fan a direct port injection with water. It doesn't give the water time to cool the air and mix in with the air before it goes into the cylinders. The most power is made with the nozzle(s) placed at the first bend closest to the turbo, after the intercooler. But other than that, I'm not sure about your problem :p
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
01-24-2015, 06:29 PM
#6
raysorenson
01-24-2015, 06:29 PM #6Keep it simple. CHX35's are cheap enough. If that doesn't turn you car into a beast, then it's something else.
01-24-2015, 06:43 PM
#7
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
01-24-2015, 06:43 PM #7My opinion - you need an intercooler and a wastegate.
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
01-24-2015, 08:04 PM
#8
(01-24-2015, 06:24 PM)MFSuper90 I've never been a fan a direct port injection with water. It doesn't give the water time to cool the air and mix in with the air before it goes into the cylinders. The most power is made with the nozzle(s) placed at the first bend closest to the turbo, after the intercooler. But other than that, I'm not sure about your problem :pI also do have a nozzle coming out of the turbo before the intercooler but what most people say is the ones out of the turbo are for lowering charge temps and the ones that are near the runners are for lowering EGT's
(01-24-2015, 06:29 PM)raysorenson Keep it simple. CHX35's are cheap enough. If that doesn't turn you car into a beast, then it's something else.Are you saying get an HX35?
(01-24-2015, 06:43 PM)led-panzer My opinion - you need an intercooler and a wastegate.I do have a huge FMIC. I am not sure having a wastegate would get me anymore boost and that is what I am looking for.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
(01-24-2015, 06:24 PM)MFSuper90 I've never been a fan a direct port injection with water. It doesn't give the water time to cool the air and mix in with the air before it goes into the cylinders. The most power is made with the nozzle(s) placed at the first bend closest to the turbo, after the intercooler. But other than that, I'm not sure about your problem :pI also do have a nozzle coming out of the turbo before the intercooler but what most people say is the ones out of the turbo are for lowering charge temps and the ones that are near the runners are for lowering EGT's
(01-24-2015, 06:29 PM)raysorenson Keep it simple. CHX35's are cheap enough. If that doesn't turn you car into a beast, then it's something else.Are you saying get an HX35?
(01-24-2015, 06:43 PM)led-panzer My opinion - you need an intercooler and a wastegate.I do have a huge FMIC. I am not sure having a wastegate would get me anymore boost and that is what I am looking for.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
01-25-2015, 12:03 AM
#9
raysorenson
01-25-2015, 12:03 AM #9CHX35= chinese clone. I recommended that because they aren't much of a $$ commitment. If you decide it's too small, you're not out much and you can get half your money back on craigslist.
01-25-2015, 09:19 AM
#10
Have people ran superchargers non intercooled?
What is the biggest VNT/VGT turbo and what will it support?
This post was last modified: 01-25-2015, 09:35 AM by TurboTim.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
I already have an HX35 with a billet 40 wheel. I wouldn't think it would be too much difference. I think if I were going to switch something turbo wise I would go to Full HX40 hot side because that would be more in line with my power goals.
Have people ran superchargers non intercooled?
What is the biggest VNT/VGT turbo and what will it support?
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
01-25-2015, 10:00 AM
#11
(01-25-2015, 09:19 AM)TurboTim I already have an HX35 with a billet 40 wheel. I wouldn't think it would be too much difference.
Well there's your problem. It would be a big difference. You have an 18psi manifold pressure delta. If someone came to you saying they had an NA engine with 18psi backpressure but they didn't think it was the problem, what would you tell them?
Get an HX40. It would much better suit your 160cc pump than an HX35, but you have a 3500# car and a stock exhaust manifold. When viewed as a system, an HX35 fits better than an HX40.
raysorenson
01-25-2015, 10:00 AM #11(01-25-2015, 09:19 AM)TurboTim I already have an HX35 with a billet 40 wheel. I wouldn't think it would be too much difference.
Well there's your problem. It would be a big difference. You have an 18psi manifold pressure delta. If someone came to you saying they had an NA engine with 18psi backpressure but they didn't think it was the problem, what would you tell them?
Get an HX40. It would much better suit your 160cc pump than an HX35, but you have a 3500# car and a stock exhaust manifold. When viewed as a system, an HX35 fits better than an HX40.
01-25-2015, 10:54 AM
#12
(01-24-2015, 08:04 PM)TurboTim(01-24-2015, 06:24 PM)MFSuper90 I've never been a fan a direct port injection with water. It doesn't give the water time to cool the air and mix in with the air before it goes into the cylinders. The most power is made with the nozzle(s) placed at the first bend closest to the turbo, after the intercooler. But other than that, I'm not sure about your problem :pI also do have a nozzle coming out of the turbo before the intercooler but what most people say is the ones out of the turbo are for lowering charge temps and the ones that are near the runners are for lowering EGT's
Lowering charge temps and lowering egts go hand in hand. The general rule of thumb I've always been taught is for every one degree farenheit intake temps go up, exhaust temps will go up 3 degrees.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(01-24-2015, 08:04 PM)TurboTim(01-24-2015, 06:24 PM)MFSuper90 I've never been a fan a direct port injection with water. It doesn't give the water time to cool the air and mix in with the air before it goes into the cylinders. The most power is made with the nozzle(s) placed at the first bend closest to the turbo, after the intercooler. But other than that, I'm not sure about your problem :pI also do have a nozzle coming out of the turbo before the intercooler but what most people say is the ones out of the turbo are for lowering charge temps and the ones that are near the runners are for lowering EGT's
Lowering charge temps and lowering egts go hand in hand. The general rule of thumb I've always been taught is for every one degree farenheit intake temps go up, exhaust temps will go up 3 degrees.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
01-25-2015, 11:46 AM
#13
(01-25-2015, 10:54 AM)MFSuper90(01-24-2015, 08:04 PM)TurboTim(01-24-2015, 06:24 PM)MFSuper90 I've never been a fan a direct port injection with water. It doesn't give the water time to cool the air and mix in with the air before it goes into the cylinders. The most power is made with the nozzle(s) placed at the first bend closest to the turbo, after the intercooler. But other than that, I'm not sure about your problem :pI also do have a nozzle coming out of the turbo before the intercooler but what most people say is the ones out of the turbo are for lowering charge temps and the ones that are near the runners are for lowering EGT's
Lowering charge temps and lowering egts go hand in hand. The general rule of thumb I've always been taught is for every one degree farenheit intake temps go up, exhaust temps will go up 3 degrees.
Agreed
Its just weird that a cummins upgrade is a hx40 cold side and keep the hx35 hotside. You would think their EBP would be through the roof with a motor twice the size. I think I may tap my turbo and see what the EBP is at the turbo instead of the runner but I cant imagine it will be that much but that will let me know how restrictive using the modded stock manifold I have is.
This post was last modified: 01-25-2015, 11:49 AM by TurboTim.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
(01-25-2015, 10:54 AM)MFSuper90(01-24-2015, 08:04 PM)TurboTim(01-24-2015, 06:24 PM)MFSuper90 I've never been a fan a direct port injection with water. It doesn't give the water time to cool the air and mix in with the air before it goes into the cylinders. The most power is made with the nozzle(s) placed at the first bend closest to the turbo, after the intercooler. But other than that, I'm not sure about your problem :pI also do have a nozzle coming out of the turbo before the intercooler but what most people say is the ones out of the turbo are for lowering charge temps and the ones that are near the runners are for lowering EGT's
Lowering charge temps and lowering egts go hand in hand. The general rule of thumb I've always been taught is for every one degree farenheit intake temps go up, exhaust temps will go up 3 degrees.
Agreed
Its just weird that a cummins upgrade is a hx40 cold side and keep the hx35 hotside. You would think their EBP would be through the roof with a motor twice the size. I think I may tap my turbo and see what the EBP is at the turbo instead of the runner but I cant imagine it will be that much but that will let me know how restrictive using the modded stock manifold I have is.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
01-27-2015, 11:29 PM
#14
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
UPDATE...did a pressure drop on the intercooler and it was 11psi!! Huge!! Ordered up a 31x12x3 intercooler. So my 38psi back pressure isn't that bad considering I should have 32psi boost.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
01-28-2015, 02:10 AM
#15
dieselmeken
01-28-2015, 02:10 AM #15And you must have a fuel pressure regulator and 3 bar of inletpressure at full load.
01-28-2015, 08:37 AM
#16
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
Yeah I have 15psi of fuel pressure. Would my EGT's still go so high if I wasn't getting enough fuel?
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
01-28-2015, 09:14 AM
#17
raysorenson
01-28-2015, 09:14 AM #17Where did you post a pic of your IC? I'd like to have another look to see what's up. I remember it having a large core.
01-28-2015, 03:43 PM
#18
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
Its not a super large core. its 24 x 7 x 2.5
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
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