Adding piston squirters to NA OM601/602/603
Adding piston squirters to NA OM601/602/603
However, to build a turbo one, I would certainly like to add piston squirters to the block as found on the turbo variants.
If anybody could post pictures of the stock squirters in the turbo 603, 602, and 601 motors, and where they are fed from, it would be of great help.
After looking at what oil jets to use, I decided I will most likely go with these, for a 352 Unimog motor. The fact that they are Mercedes is just a bonus. I looked at many various jets for various motors, and so far these seem as if they would be the easiest to use for a custom install.
![[Image: 346585d1292006575-piston-oil-jets-oil-sq...nozzle.jpg]](http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/unimog/346585d1292006575-piston-oil-jets-oil-squirters-oilnozzle.jpg)
My main concern is knowing where to tap into the oil galley. Does it run along the entire side of the block, or can it only be accessed in specific spots? I am curious if a diagram exists anywhere.
For example, here is a 4-cylinder block tapped for oil squirters, though I am not sure if it is a 616 or a 601. I am curious if that oil galley runs parallel to the cylinders along the length of the block, or if it can be tapped only in those exact spots.
![[Image: p0450.jpg]](http://www.nic.fi/~danes/w638_2/jutut/pic/p0450.jpg)
![[Image: p0449.jpg]](http://www.nic.fi/~danes/w638_2/jutut/pic/p0449.jpg)
Finally, can the oil pump on the NA motors handle the extra oil requirements of the turbo and piston squirters, or should it be upgraded? If so, what options are there? Are the pumps interchangeable between the 4, 5, and 6-cylinder motors?
Please feel free to add any input or ask any questions regarding squirters in this thread. If you have performed this mod, any information and pictures would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Irony.cc
While the consensus is that it is best to start with a turbo engine, there are plenty of NA OM60x motors out there for the taking, not to mention they can usually be had for much cheaper.
However, to build a turbo one, I would certainly like to add piston squirters to the block as found on the turbo variants.
If anybody could post pictures of the stock squirters in the turbo 603, 602, and 601 motors, and where they are fed from, it would be of great help.
After looking at what oil jets to use, I decided I will most likely go with these, for a 352 Unimog motor. The fact that they are Mercedes is just a bonus. I looked at many various jets for various motors, and so far these seem as if they would be the easiest to use for a custom install.
My main concern is knowing where to tap into the oil galley. Does it run along the entire side of the block, or can it only be accessed in specific spots? I am curious if a diagram exists anywhere.
For example, here is a 4-cylinder block tapped for oil squirters, though I am not sure if it is a 616 or a 601. I am curious if that oil galley runs parallel to the cylinders along the length of the block, or if it can be tapped only in those exact spots.
Finally, can the oil pump on the NA motors handle the extra oil requirements of the turbo and piston squirters, or should it be upgraded? If so, what options are there? Are the pumps interchangeable between the 4, 5, and 6-cylinder motors?
Please feel free to add any input or ask any questions regarding squirters in this thread. If you have performed this mod, any information and pictures would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Irony.cc
Another thing to remember is that most all piston cooling jets operate via a check valve, just any old squirter would cause oil flow issues at low rpm in our engines.
Duncansport
03-09-2015, 07:11 PM #2the pumps are usually interchangeable. Ive have a 601 apart YEARS ago and i seem to remember it having the machined bosses for the normal 602/603 oil squirters. As does the M104, M103 and M102.
Another thing to remember is that most all piston cooling jets operate via a check valve, just any old squirter would cause oil flow issues at low rpm in our engines.
for instance oil pumps are the same in even the 612. diff is the gears that drive the pump. some are 20 others 30 tooth. u can even assembly a 602 pump in a later 606.
the sprays hum , they must be there even if it is a 601. but 4 cylinder engines are slightly diff , they come in at least 3 sizes. sure pistons came in at least 3 versions , some serial nr is letter D. for instance the head assy in 605/na and turbo is the same, although they have diff valves cams and a few other mickey mouse.
the main oil gallery is machined in the block and tapped with a bolt in one side and sphere in the other, thats were the squirters feed from.
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
that does not look like a mercedes block. i´m not current on 601/2/3 but the difference in the 604/5/6 is not much. some people say rods , some say head , well i´m not so sure there´s such a big difference on the big parts.
for instance oil pumps are the same in even the 612. diff is the gears that drive the pump. some are 20 others 30 tooth. u can even assembly a 602 pump in a later 606.
the sprays hum , they must be there even if it is a 601. but 4 cylinder engines are slightly diff , they come in at least 3 sizes. sure pistons came in at least 3 versions , some serial nr is letter D. for instance the head assy in 605/na and turbo is the same, although they have diff valves cams and a few other mickey mouse.
the main oil gallery is machined in the block and tapped with a bolt in one side and sphere in the other, thats were the squirters feed from.
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Duncansport
03-10-2015, 07:29 PM #4That picture was from some one who made a 616 a turbo i i remember correctly. Im pressty sure the 601 has the bosses for the oil squirters
Does anyone happen to have pictures of how the mounting points and oil holes look underneath the squirters? It would be very useful for reference.
![[Image: 19036le044.jpg]](http://www.sg-motorsports.com/190lepics/19036le044.jpg)
Irony.cc
Should do a SolidWorks drawing of the work so it's just a matter of putting the block in the CNC milling machine.But it's hard to get down so low in the block. I've looked at this before.
F-tune Performance
![[Image: V-band_om606.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/V-band_om606.jpg)
![[Image: GTX3582R.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/GTX3582R.jpg)
![[Image: gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg)
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
I have a picture, just have to find it Should do a SolidWorks drawing of the work so it's just a matter of putting the block in the CNC milling machine.
But it's hard to get down so low in the block. I've looked at this before.
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
The NA engines have a oilbore running inside the conrods from crank end to piston pin. That means that the squirters in NA engines primarely serve to cool the piston, and ofcourse lubricate cylinder wall with the oil seeping out by lower oilscraper ring on the piston.
The mercedes documentation specifically warns NOT TO mix the two types of oilsquirters up, as they have different angles and purpose.
The 602 and 603 series engines all have oil squirters. The difference between NA and Turbo squirters are due to the turbo engines having a solid conrod, and therefore relies on a different oil squirter angle to lubricate the upper piston pin.
The NA engines have a oilbore running inside the conrods from crank end to piston pin. That means that the squirters in NA engines primarely serve to cool the piston, and ofcourse lubricate cylinder wall with the oil seeping out by lower oilscraper ring on the piston.
The mercedes documentation specifically warns NOT TO mix the two types of oilsquirters up, as they have different angles and purpose.
So after checking the EPS catalogs, it seems that all the 60x engines feature piston squirters, except for the US-spec 601, which as luck would have it is the motor I am specifically interested in.
Is drilling the block to tap for the squirters something that needs to be done by a machine shop, or could it be done at home? With the shape of the OM squirters, it seems that it should be pretty self-explanatory where the holes need to be drilled and tapped, assuming the bosses are already present.
Also, since the pumps are the same, is it a possibility to upgrade the oil pump gear to the turbo one? It would be nice for peace of mind, with the extra oil pressure used up by the turbo feed and squirters.
Someone suggested swapping the oil gear on another forum, but I am curious if it is even doable, as I am not yet sure how the chains are set up.
Irony.cc
That is good information, thank you.
So after checking the EPS catalogs, it seems that all the 60x engines feature piston squirters, except for the US-spec 601, which as luck would have it is the motor I am specifically interested in.
Is drilling the block to tap for the squirters something that needs to be done by a machine shop, or could it be done at home? With the shape of the OM squirters, it seems that it should be pretty self-explanatory where the holes need to be drilled and tapped, assuming the bosses are already present.
Also, since the pumps are the same, is it a possibility to upgrade the oil pump gear to the turbo one? It would be nice for peace of mind, with the extra oil pressure used up by the turbo feed and squirters.
Someone suggested swapping the oil gear on another forum, but I am curious if it is even doable, as I am not yet sure how the chains are set up.
Irony.cc
(03-11-2015, 12:07 PM)GD290 The 602 and 603 series engines all have oil squirters. The difference between NA and Turbo squirters are due to the turbo engines having a solid conrod, and therefore relies on a different oil squirter angle to lubricate the upper piston pin.
The NA engines have a oilbore running inside the conrods from crank end to piston pin. That means that the squirters in NA engines primarely serve to cool the piston, and ofcourse lubricate cylinder wall with the oil seeping out by lower oilscraper ring on the piston.
The mercedes documentation specifically warns NOT TO mix the two types of oilsquirters up, as they have different angles and purpose.
I though only the 604/605 and 606 na and turbo had oilsquirters?
I have not seen a 601/602 and 603 na with oilsquirters, only td ones.
EDH_Performance
03-13-2015, 02:55 AM #10(03-11-2015, 12:07 PM)GD290 The 602 and 603 series engines all have oil squirters. The difference between NA and Turbo squirters are due to the turbo engines having a solid conrod, and therefore relies on a different oil squirter angle to lubricate the upper piston pin.
The NA engines have a oilbore running inside the conrods from crank end to piston pin. That means that the squirters in NA engines primarely serve to cool the piston, and ofcourse lubricate cylinder wall with the oil seeping out by lower oilscraper ring on the piston.
The mercedes documentation specifically warns NOT TO mix the two types of oilsquirters up, as they have different angles and purpose.
I though only the 604/605 and 606 na and turbo had oilsquirters?
I have not seen a 601/602 and 603 na with oilsquirters, only td ones.
OM603 3.0L NA are the same way.
OM603 3.5L turbocharged have no oilbore inside the conrods, and therefore a different oilsquirter to lubricate the piston pin.
OM602 in both 2.5L and 2.9L NA got them. The engines I work with are from Geländewagen vehicles. They have different oilsump and oilbaffle plate that allows a more extreme operating angle without loosing oilpressure. Other than that, they are just like any other mercedes car engine.
OM603 3.0L NA are the same way.
OM603 3.5L turbocharged have no oilbore inside the conrods, and therefore a different oilsquirter to lubricate the piston pin.
I decided to just use the basic style of squirters as in the first picture of this thread, as can be found in many other engines. Some even have a check valve, and if I go with ones without a check valve, I will use the smaller oil pump gear for higher oil pressure, thus there should be no issues at idle.
After looking at the stock Mercedes squirters, it seems that it would be a big pain to have the block machined to accept them, if even possible, due to the unique shape of the part that slips inside the block.
![[Image: mercedesquirter.jpg]](http://matejblahut.com/media/image/hobby/mercedesquirter.jpg)
That is why I am also having trouble visualising how exactly the squirter is fed. Is it through the bottom metal circle part? Or possibly through the check-valve ball on the side?
If anyone could please take a picture of how the oil passage looks underneath the squirters, it would be of tremendous help.
Thank you.
Irony.cc
Does anyone happen to have closeup pictures of their OM60x with the oil squirters removed, or would anyone be willing to take some please?
I decided to just use the basic style of squirters as in the first picture of this thread, as can be found in many other engines. Some even have a check valve, and if I go with ones without a check valve, I will use the smaller oil pump gear for higher oil pressure, thus there should be no issues at idle.
After looking at the stock Mercedes squirters, it seems that it would be a big pain to have the block machined to accept them, if even possible, due to the unique shape of the part that slips inside the block.
That is why I am also having trouble visualising how exactly the squirter is fed. Is it through the bottom metal circle part? Or possibly through the check-valve ball on the side?
If anyone could please take a picture of how the oil passage looks underneath the squirters, it would be of tremendous help.
Thank you.
Irony.cc
As to the oil squirters, I can tell you in the 606, they sit on a machined flat at the base of the cylinders. I haven't removed them yet and might not. The pistons also are unique. They have a cavity under the compression dome and there are several holes in the underside, two are large. The squirters are aligned so that they spray right up into one of the holes into the hollow space to cool the dome and the other hole is for drainage. There are also 2 small holes above the rod/wrist pin axis that weep oil onto the top of the rod which has 2 oiling holes to lube the bronze bush in the rod.
I can't speak to the 601/603/603, as I haven't been into one yet other than putting lifters in the 603. It will be a while before I yank the 603 out to pillage it for swap.
mytmousemalibu
03-30-2015, 12:24 AM #13Cool, an STD'er in KC! I'm down the road a ways from you in El Dorado, KS! I'm in the process of building an OM606.962 to put into my 87' 300D. The ole' OM603 suffered from a case of #14itis and a subsequent overheat from the PO used leak sealer in it and a chunk of fiber blocked the small hose to the coolant expansion tank. Coolant can't circulate like that and it developed an air pocket in the head and cracked real bad. So taking this misfortune as an opportunity, building my dream ride!
As to the oil squirters, I can tell you in the 606, they sit on a machined flat at the base of the cylinders. I haven't removed them yet and might not. The pistons also are unique. They have a cavity under the compression dome and there are several holes in the underside, two are large. The squirters are aligned so that they spray right up into one of the holes into the hollow space to cool the dome and the other hole is for drainage. There are also 2 small holes above the rod/wrist pin axis that weep oil onto the top of the rod which has 2 oiling holes to lube the bronze bush in the rod.
I can't speak to the 601/603/603, as I haven't been into one yet other than putting lifters in the 603. It will be a while before I yank the 603 out to pillage it for swap.
There is a complete turbo OM603 at the 12th St. junkyard in KCK. At least there was a few weeks ago. I wanted to get the pump off it but gave up.
I found a picture of the squirters in the Vito turbo OM601.970, and it appears that it uses its own unique squirters. I am guessing they are pressed into the block, since I do not see how they would bolt down. I also do not see a check valve, unless it is hidden in the head of the squirter.
![[Image: vitosquirter.jpg]](http://matejblahut.com/media/image/hobby/vitosquirter.jpg)
Irony.cc
Interesting, thank you for the information.
There is a complete turbo OM603 at the 12th St. junkyard in KCK. At least there was a few weeks ago. I wanted to get the pump off it but gave up.
I found a picture of the squirters in the Vito turbo OM601.970, and it appears that it uses its own unique squirters. I am guessing they are pressed into the block, since I do not see how they would bolt down. I also do not see a check valve, unless it is hidden in the head of the squirter.
Irony.cc
mytmousemalibu
03-30-2015, 01:01 AM #15Anything 60X powered is scarce in this state as far as I have looked. I was lucky to find my car. My 606 came from ohio.
Need them out. Advice highly appreciated.
Boatbuilder
02-26-2016, 09:47 AM #16Hi, have a question re squirters disassembly on E 320 CDI - 2001- 613.961. Can't see any bolt or screw, are they pressed in ?
Need them out. Advice highly appreciated.
(02-26-2016, 01:36 PM)MartinB They are pressed in.
Thanks, but how do I get them OUT without ruining them ? Any special tool ? Need to remove them because
of honing the cylinders. Advice highly appreciated.
Boatbuilder
02-26-2016, 02:04 PM #18(02-26-2016, 01:36 PM)MartinB They are pressed in.
Thanks, but how do I get them OUT without ruining them ? Any special tool ? Need to remove them because
of honing the cylinders. Advice highly appreciated.
then buy new ones and install. they are hamered dwn!!! watch the lower limit they should clear the crank and the pinton skirt, and the angle of squirting should enter the piston , correction is by torsion ...
for matej , u can use both old serial nr or the new serial nr , the old one has a boss and a screw , new ones are pressed in.... check valve is inside , opens for 3 bar .
if it suites u i can send u a picture of that with some measurings .... very strange a 601 without squirters , very strange , sure it was not a marine or industrial engine , not automotive i bet my dólar on that.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
there´s a special tool to remove them , if u dont have the tool a normal hammer tool will do the trick ,
then buy new ones and install. they are hamered dwn!!! watch the lower limit they should clear the crank and the pinton skirt, and the angle of squirting should enter the piston , correction is by torsion ...
for matej , u can use both old serial nr or the new serial nr , the old one has a boss and a screw , new ones are pressed in.... check valve is inside , opens for 3 bar .
if it suites u i can send u a picture of that with some measurings .... very strange a 601 without squirters , very strange , sure it was not a marine or industrial engine , not automotive i bet my dólar on that.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
and used in a boat.
Boatbuilder
02-26-2016, 02:47 PM #20Ok, thanks, not possible to take them out and reuse them. You suggest buing new ones, but they must also be hammered in if I understand you correctly, therefore old ones with bolts not possible or ? pl send picture. Engine are E 320 CDI -613.961
and used in a boat.
sure u can reuse them , use locktite 270 and hammer them dwn then the glue will do theyre job!!!
but is u who must determine if they will be tight enough , to witstand temperature and 8bar max oil press.
i would try to reuse , even if they are cheap ......
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
they come out hammering , like removing a precup same special hammer, and they are inserted same way,
sure u can reuse them , use locktite 270 and hammer them dwn then the glue will do theyre job!!!
but is u who must determine if they will be tight enough , to witstand temperature and 8bar max oil press.
i would try to reuse , even if they are cheap ......
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Boatbuilder
02-26-2016, 03:11 PM #22Thanks, ok need to make such a tool to fit underside of the squirts and then using a pull hammer. Do you know where to buy such tool or do you have a drawing with some measurements ? or pictures of such a tool ?
if u dont want to waste time use a crow bar !!!!!
sorry mate i dont have a picture ....
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
come on !!! is just something like two finguers , atached to the pull hammer u can easyly fab one in 2 hours .... even if u not a gifted artizan .....
if u dont want to waste time use a crow bar !!!!!
sorry mate i dont have a picture ....
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Thanks for your help.
Boatbuilder
02-26-2016, 03:23 PM #24Sure I can make one, but sometimes easier and quicker if you have a drawing or even can buy the tool. I will make it tomorrow.
Thanks for your help.
18 Guest(s)
18 Guest(s)