Turbo upgrade, stock to VNT.
Turbo upgrade, stock to VNT.
It has the stock turbo with the vacuum actuated wastegate.
How much does the stock software differ for proper function with a VNT turbo with vacuum operation?
I have seen this topic been discussed before at other forums.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/dies...grade.html
See post #7.
I have also seen some Land rover guys done a similar mod on the TD5 engine.
Will it function ok? Or does it need a new software to run?
Let's say i have a W210 with the stock OM606.
It has the stock turbo with the vacuum actuated wastegate.
How much does the stock software differ for proper function with a VNT turbo with vacuum operation?
I have seen this topic been discussed before at other forums.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/dies...grade.html
See post #7.
I have also seen some Land rover guys done a similar mod on the TD5 engine.
Will it function ok? Or does it need a new software to run?
IN a WG, ECU aply vac to close WG
in a VNT like in a CDI engine the ECU aplyes vac to close geometry(increase in boost)
CDI engines run in a condition wich they must respect the Engine Control Program, wich is set for: Emissions, fuel consuption, smoth power delivery, ABS, Anty lock, ASR, and some other safety features.
well what has a VNT got to do with it? a lot , cause VNT type turbines can control inlet pressure, amout of EGR being ingested, and EGP for braking aplication.
how is this achieved, in pneumatic vane control , by means of vac pulses, in electric vane control by a servoelectric actuator.
this being said , a VNT type turbine is a lot more than a BOOST MAKING device, nevertheless u can use it as one.
thing is VNT turbines are limited by turbine gas flow, cause they were meant to operate in optimum speeds of 1.5K to 3.5k engine RPM.
in your case u can install the GT2359V wich is the stock in C30 AMG model OM612, and will work rather good.
or maybe another type, as far as i heard is the biggest VNT fitted in car, thing is a truck is even bad,
truck engines are made to rum at 1k to 2k at most, so .......
good luck
FD,
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U canot control properly a VNT with a 606 ECU, or yes u can same way as a WG turbo is controlled.
IN a WG, ECU aply vac to close WG
in a VNT like in a CDI engine the ECU aplyes vac to close geometry(increase in boost)
CDI engines run in a condition wich they must respect the Engine Control Program, wich is set for: Emissions, fuel consuption, smoth power delivery, ABS, Anty lock, ASR, and some other safety features.
well what has a VNT got to do with it? a lot , cause VNT type turbines can control inlet pressure, amout of EGR being ingested, and EGP for braking aplication.
how is this achieved, in pneumatic vane control , by means of vac pulses, in electric vane control by a servoelectric actuator.
this being said , a VNT type turbine is a lot more than a BOOST MAKING device, nevertheless u can use it as one.
thing is VNT turbines are limited by turbine gas flow, cause they were meant to operate in optimum speeds of 1.5K to 3.5k engine RPM.
in your case u can install the GT2359V wich is the stock in C30 AMG model OM612, and will work rather good.
or maybe another type, as far as i heard is the biggest VNT fitted in car, thing is a truck is even bad,
truck engines are made to rum at 1k to 2k at most, so .......
good luck
FD,
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Yes i know VNT's serve a multitude of purposes.
But will it run on stock software?
My biggest concern is that it may keep the vanes "closed" to long.
And overboostprotection i might avoid using a different mapsensor.
The GT2359 turbine might be hard to get. I was more thinking GT2256, GT2260 or GTB2260VKLR if i can get one on cheap.
A GT2256 can i get for almost nothing.
Okey!
Yes i know VNT's serve a multitude of purposes.
But will it run on stock software?
My biggest concern is that it may keep the vanes "closed" to long.
And overboostprotection i might avoid using a different mapsensor.
The GT2359 turbine might be hard to get. I was more thinking GT2256, GT2260 or GTB2260VKLR if i can get one on cheap.
A GT2256 can i get for almost nothing.
but u can try a press regulator conected to intake plenum, linked to the WG vac hose by a T, in such a way that when it reaches the desired Boost it alow a samall amout of boost to eliminate the vac and the actuator will be able to mantain a half way position.
if u understand what i mean?
any dought we´ll go from there,
FD,
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No idea, about the ECU map. but anyhow it wont be able to open the vanes in half way position cause it is not made for halfway opening of the WG.
but u can try a press regulator conected to intake plenum, linked to the WG vac hose by a T, in such a way that when it reaches the desired Boost it alow a samall amout of boost to eliminate the vac and the actuator will be able to mantain a half way position.
if u understand what i mean?
any dought we´ll go from there,
FD,
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dadada... that stuff
people i know have installed it as i explained with sucess, even able to maintain EGR system.
if u send me a email adress i can send u a picture of a instalation.
regards
FD,
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Cause the hardware wich controls the WG actuator does not ofer the possibility of PULSES. unless u change the Electro actuator wich opens the VAC to a one able to produce VAC pulses and then u need to change the Map to produce such pulses. and since the max boost control in a WG turbo is controled through the Spring inside the vac capsule, u would have to install a means of the ECU map know the max boost in order to open the vanes.
dadada... that stuff
people i know have installed it as i explained with sucess, even able to maintain EGR system.
if u send me a email adress i can send u a picture of a instalation.
regards
FD,
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but u can see that in any aftermarket turbo rebuilder cathalog.
and the 648 and c30 647 is the same , changes the actuator so GT2359VK.
regards
FD,
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nop 613, is same turbine as C30 612. although the C30 has a small diff at the turbine housing and vanes, not that i´ve seen but it flow´s slight better in high RPM.
but u can see that in any aftermarket turbo rebuilder cathalog.
and the 648 and c30 647 is the same , changes the actuator so GT2359VK.
regards
FD,
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605, gt 25 wg
606 kkk24, 612/647 gt2256V or VK , 612 3000cc, 613 648, gt2359V or VK , thats what your cathalog says.
there are the v engines 642 they use two gt18´s V or VK, that is a very small device.
like u can see on the list
MB moved to V engines .
FD,
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typing error or not , here it is 604, 611, turbo versions with gt 20thies,
605, gt 25 wg
606 kkk24, 612/647 gt2256V or VK , 612 3000cc, 613 648, gt2359V or VK , thats what your cathalog says.
there are the v engines 642 they use two gt18´s V or VK, that is a very small device.
like u can see on the list
MB moved to V engines .
FD,
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(04-23-2015, 02:09 PM)barrote No idea, about the ECU map. but anyhow it wont be able to open the vanes in half way position cause it is not made for halfway opening of the WG....
Actually, from my testing, the E300/G300/S300 ECU does exactly that. It outputs a PWM signal that drives a variable vacuum modulator that pulls the wastegate closed. In practice, the PWM signal varies all over the map from ~20% to 100% depending on boost requirements. Frankly, looking at the way it works, I could be convinced that the original specs called for a VNT, and some problem caused them to drop back to a wastegated turbo.
I don't know what the signal requirements are for the PWM controlled VNTs, but it shouldn't take much to interface the stock ECU signal directly to the VNT controller (skipping the vacuum step altogether). This would provide more responsive and accurate control.
(04-23-2015, 02:09 PM)barrote No idea, about the ECU map. but anyhow it wont be able to open the vanes in half way position cause it is not made for halfway opening of the WG....
Actually, from my testing, the E300/G300/S300 ECU does exactly that. It outputs a PWM signal that drives a variable vacuum modulator that pulls the wastegate closed. In practice, the PWM signal varies all over the map from ~20% to 100% depending on boost requirements. Frankly, looking at the way it works, I could be convinced that the original specs called for a VNT, and some problem caused them to drop back to a wastegated turbo.
I don't know what the signal requirements are for the PWM controlled VNTs, but it shouldn't take much to interface the stock ECU signal directly to the VNT controller (skipping the vacuum step altogether). This would provide more responsive and accurate control.
including me , but anyhow all the fellas that move in mechanichal pumps and trans they must be dumm as well.
dont forguet fell free to post your findings
as bad as they go. regards
FD,
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ok , guys !!! u´re right so then hook up a VNT in your cars and u´ll soon find out that all the fellas that have VNT´s working the way they do are dumm people.
including me , but anyhow all the fellas that move in mechanichal pumps and trans they must be dumm as well.
dont forguet fell free to post your findings as bad as they go.
regards
FD,
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