W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52
W202 OM606 GT2359v+Pro52
Looks very good.
Greets
Max
______________________________________________________________
93´ W124 300TDT -> OM606.962 / RS 203 Dieselmeken 7,5mm 210cc / KKK K14 / Stock Transmission / 2,65 ASD
89´ 190D 2.5 Turbo -> OM605.960 / Dieselmeken 7,5mm 180cc / Holset HX30 Super / 716. 654 6-Speed / 2,87 Rear Axle
Wow, Great Work !
Looks very good.
Greets
Max
______________________________________________________________
93´ W124 300TDT -> OM606.962 / RS 203 Dieselmeken 7,5mm 210cc / KKK K14 / Stock Transmission / 2,65 ASD
89´ 190D 2.5 Turbo -> OM605.960 / Dieselmeken 7,5mm 180cc / Holset HX30 Super / 716. 654 6-Speed / 2,87 Rear Axle
(04-23-2015, 03:28 AM)Booster Looks great! Even your "smaller" cone filter is massive! Looks like a really tidy set up, can't wait to see some results.
Are you after any HP numbers ?? Or just see what happens?
Thanks, it was hard work to make all this. I think 500hp and 800nm would be ok but I have to modify intake also so 550hp would be great.
Pump should produce up to 600hp.
(04-23-2015, 03:28 AM)Booster Looks great! Even your "smaller" cone filter is massive! Looks like a really tidy set up, can't wait to see some results.
Are you after any HP numbers ?? Or just see what happens?
Thanks, it was hard work to make all this. I think 500hp and 800nm would be ok but I have to modify intake also so 550hp would be great.
Pump should produce up to 600hp.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.elbe.ee - MB performance parts.
Intake manifold is waiting for you
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.elbe.ee - MB performance parts.
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
maxypriest
04-29-2015, 01:37 PM #58I'm loving this build. It's bloody quick too!!!
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
(04-29-2015, 01:37 PM)maxypriest I'm loving this build. It's bloody quick too!!!
I'm glad you like it.
Exhaust side took a lot of working hours and it was worth it, now I got 1,9bar EGP with 2bar boost, before it was almost 3bar EGP with 2bar boost. I need an airfield to test it because there's no traction under 130kmh with 225 tyres. 
(04-29-2015, 01:37 PM)maxypriest I'm loving this build. It's bloody quick too!!!
I'm glad you like it.
Exhaust side took a lot of working hours and it was worth it, now I got 1,9bar EGP with 2bar boost, before it was almost 3bar EGP with 2bar boost. I need an airfield to test it because there's no traction under 130kmh with 225 tyres.
What is the advantage to increase from 130 to 150bar?
What is the advantage of the injector open later?
bruno_pinho
05-01-2015, 10:33 AM #61No video?
What is the advantage to increase from 130 to 150bar?
What is the advantage of the injector open later?
(05-03-2015, 04:12 AM)seanyt Good figures from that turbo, what diameter did you use for the primarys on your exhaust manifold.
Pipes' outer diameter is 42mm. Video is coming soon.
Most of std cars have 150bar injectors, I belive dieselmeken also recommended it. Then opening time is a little shorter and less black smoke. If I remember right I set pump to 11 degrees, dieselmeken recommended 11 to 12 degrees but I have to say that engine is sounding very smooth, no extra knocking and cold start is also good. It shakes a little when cold but no misfiring and it starts on first engine turn.
Donor car had 300 000 miles/470 000 km.
(05-03-2015, 04:12 AM)seanyt Good figures from that turbo, what diameter did you use for the primarys on your exhaust manifold.
Pipes' outer diameter is 42mm. Video is coming soon.
Most of std cars have 150bar injectors, I belive dieselmeken also recommended it. Then opening time is a little shorter and less black smoke. If I remember right I set pump to 11 degrees, dieselmeken recommended 11 to 12 degrees but I have to say that engine is sounding very smooth, no extra knocking and cold start is also good. It shakes a little when cold but no misfiring and it starts on first engine turn.
Donor car had 300 000 miles/470 000 km.
(02-18-2015, 01:24 PM)erx(02-15-2015, 12:36 PM)INC Hice build. Can You post some pictures from low pressure fuel system setup 044 and FPR ?
Sure, stock lift pump is replaced by 044 and FPR, all other lines are stock. Two little hoses to FPR are from intake manifold and fuel pressure is regulated by boost. Working principle of that system is exactly the same as stock lift pump has but its' fuel amount and pressure is many times greater. I run 1bar at idle and about 3bar at max boost like Dieselmeken recommended.
And the same thing on scheme.
![[Image: IMG_5303_zpsilb0fj4e.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5303_zpsilb0fj4e.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_5304_zpspzvrl44p.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5304_zpspzvrl44p.jpg.html)
![[Image: Untitled_zpsbszslerj.png]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Untitled_zpsbszslerj.png.html)
Why two lines of vacuum until the FPR?
bruno_pinho
05-05-2015, 05:55 AM #65(02-18-2015, 01:24 PM)erx(02-15-2015, 12:36 PM)INC Hice build. Can You post some pictures from low pressure fuel system setup 044 and FPR ?
Sure, stock lift pump is replaced by 044 and FPR, all other lines are stock. Two little hoses to FPR are from intake manifold and fuel pressure is regulated by boost. Working principle of that system is exactly the same as stock lift pump has but its' fuel amount and pressure is many times greater. I run 1bar at idle and about 3bar at max boost like Dieselmeken recommended.
And the same thing on scheme.
Why two lines of vacuum until the FPR?
Thank you for also putting the fuel pump pictures in here, it really helps to see it all mounted in the engine bay.
Did you drill the camshaft/sprocket with it inside the engine? I'm not sure how you can check without starting the car and seeing what the timing is, i plan to put the pin in mine when i remove the head and have the camshaft out.
The finished manifold looks awesome man! Perfect filter location too, your work is very clean, giving me inspiration to work on mine.
Thank you for also putting the fuel pump pictures in here, it really helps to see it all mounted in the engine bay.
Did you drill the camshaft/sprocket with it inside the engine? I'm not sure how you can check without starting the car and seeing what the timing is, i plan to put the pin in mine when i remove the head and have the camshaft out.
Quite happy with the result, need to do few improvements and I hope I'll be faster next time. Final gear is 2,47 so spoolup from standing start is not very good, gearbox is holding 860nm nicely.Short videos from competition and results:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VbgZFLq...L&index=24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvQ1kKl8...L&index=23
http://www.onemile.ee/?lang=en&page=results
![[Image: 141_zpsmcr1nlse.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/141_zpsmcr1nlse.jpg.html)
![[Image: b1e80f91-2a7a-47ef-8c54-958468b5adb9_zpsviuksobn.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/b1e80f91-2a7a-47ef-8c54-958468b5adb9_zpsviuksobn.jpg.html)
Last weekend I went to One Mile Challenge. One Mile Challenge is a top speed competition for passenger cars and its idea is to achieve the greatest finish-line speed at the end of a 1 mile course (approx. 1609 meter) from a standing start. My taxi was fastest diesel car with 272kmh, M550d with three turbos got second place with 252kmh. Quite happy with the result, need to do few improvements and I hope I'll be faster next time. Final gear is 2,47 so spoolup from standing start is not very good, gearbox is holding 860nm nicely.
Short videos from competition and results:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VbgZFLq...L&index=24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvQ1kKl8...L&index=23
http://www.onemile.ee/?lang=en&page=results
Now I can say that last dyno numbers 298kw/733nm from wheels weren't right,
there seemed to be a mistake with rpm reading and actual numbers were about 290kw and 600nm from wheels.
This time all seemed to be working fine and numbers should be right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ6RRr8fBwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Of0HT8_HUM
![[Image: dyno%2010.08.2015_zpsik37zmxf.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/dyno%2010.08.2015_zpsik37zmxf.jpg.html)
I changed gearbox oil and cleaned valve body, also opened K3 port a little for better 3-4 shift like whipplem104 recommended.
![[Image: IMG_5402_zpsihtl6ifs.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5402_zpsihtl6ifs.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_5404_zpsprc7gx6l.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5404_zpsprc7gx6l.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_5407_zpsfj8u60i4.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5407_zpsfj8u60i4.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_5408_zpsyjwiucxf.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5408_zpsyjwiucxf.jpg.html)
Hents99 made me a new intake manifold, nothing special but it's a lot better than stock version.
It was also sandblasted and powder coated.
![[Image: 68978-WP_20150713_15_52_59_Pro_zpswdiuwc1y.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/68978-WP_20150713_15_52_59_Pro_zpswdiuwc1y.jpg.html)
![[Image: unnamed%208_zpstklvvanl.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/unnamed%208_zpstklvvanl.jpg.html)
![[Image: unnamed%207_zpsbhcdpwfj.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/unnamed%207_zpsbhcdpwfj.jpg.html)
![[Image: unnamed%205_zpspjdodgli.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/unnamed%205_zpspjdodgli.jpg.html)
![[Image: unnamed%204_zps7klfnx3r.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/unnamed%204_zps7klfnx3r.jpg.html)
New dyno results: 323kw/433hp and 716nm from wheels, I belive it's a little under 400kw/900nm from engine, automatic transmission is power killer.
Now I can say that last dyno numbers 298kw/733nm from wheels weren't right,
there seemed to be a mistake with rpm reading and actual numbers were about 290kw and 600nm from wheels.
This time all seemed to be working fine and numbers should be right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ6RRr8fBwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Of0HT8_HUM
I changed gearbox oil and cleaned valve body, also opened K3 port a little for better 3-4 shift like whipplem104 recommended.
Hents99 made me a new intake manifold, nothing special but it's a lot better than stock version.
It was also sandblasted and powder coated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOtuYfyu...11&list=WL
New one mile distance speed record is 280kph and I tried 1/4 mile also, 12,73s 192kph. It's hard to make a good start but when it spools and gets grip it goes very well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOtuYfyu...11&list=WL
(10-07-2015, 11:21 AM)Hario Hey mate where did you mount the oil cooler? And why do you have a picture of 2 of them? ATF cooler also?
Beers, H.
Oil cooler is behind the front bumper, in the same place like w210 has. First I was planning another one for ATF but this cooler is too small, ATF cooler should be with electric fan and a little bigger with more rows.
(10-07-2015, 11:21 AM)Hario Hey mate where did you mount the oil cooler? And why do you have a picture of 2 of them? ATF cooler also?
Beers, H.
Oil cooler is behind the front bumper, in the same place like w210 has. First I was planning another one for ATF but this cooler is too small, ATF cooler should be with electric fan and a little bigger with more rows.
(10-07-2015, 11:39 AM)erx(10-07-2015, 11:21 AM)Hario Hey mate where did you mount the oil cooler? And why do you have a picture of 2 of them? ATF cooler also?
Beers, H.
Oil cooler is behind the front bumper, in the same place like w210 has. First I was planning another one for ATF but this cooler is too small, ATF cooler should be with electric fan and a little bigger with more rows.
210 & 202 with 605/606 & 722 come with ATF cooler built into radiator header tank (LH turbo side tank). A complete tranny cooler setup would be bolt onto your build. The lines run along the sump and are fixed to the sump bolts.
Edit: I would give you mine but they are all useless due to corrosion..
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(10-07-2015, 11:39 AM)erx(10-07-2015, 11:21 AM)Hario Hey mate where did you mount the oil cooler? And why do you have a picture of 2 of them? ATF cooler also?
Beers, H.
Oil cooler is behind the front bumper, in the same place like w210 has. First I was planning another one for ATF but this cooler is too small, ATF cooler should be with electric fan and a little bigger with more rows.
210 & 202 with 605/606 & 722 come with ATF cooler built into radiator header tank (LH turbo side tank). A complete tranny cooler setup would be bolt onto your build. The lines run along the sump and are fixed to the sump bolts.
Edit: I would give you mine but they are all useless due to corrosion..
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
At the moment I have all oil lines from 300td and ATF cooling is as it was with 722.4 inside radiator header tank but it's not very efficent and oil is going too hot when driving hard.
It depends on what year and where car is sold, my e300td was from 1997 and it had only one oil cooler for engine oil but my friend had the same car from 1998 and it had oil coolers on both side and ATF cooler was with electic fan.
At the moment I have all oil lines from 300td and ATF cooling is as it was with 722.4 inside radiator header tank but it's not very efficent and oil is going too hot when driving hard.
DiseaselWeasel
10-14-2015, 12:53 AM #82All W210 with AC and factory tow-bar got the external ATF-cooler with cooling fan IIRC.
HX52 with #16 turbine housing.
![[Image: 42947-DSC_0158.JPG]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/42947-DSC_0158.JPG)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.elbe.ee - MB performance parts.
New turbo for erx.....
HX52 with #16 turbine housing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.elbe.ee - MB performance parts.
Here you can see housings from hx52 compared to stock 3.0td.
![[Image: IMG_5465_zpsnmsijlbk.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5465_zpsnmsijlbk.jpg.html)
I need to change the exhaust flange from T3 to T4 and I need bigger intercooler also, I belive I can max out my 180cc pump with this setup.
![[Image: IMG_5463_zpswusf2aku.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5463_zpswusf2aku.jpg.html)
Like hents said I bought new turbo from him, it's Holset HX52 and it's from Scania truck. Nice big turbo.
Here you can see housings from hx52 compared to stock 3.0td.
I need to change the exhaust flange from T3 to T4 and I need bigger intercooler also, I belive I can max out my 180cc pump with this setup.
Any videos from inside the car?
Very impressive build!
/Markus
------------------------------------------------
Cars currently owned:
1993 Mercedes Benz 300TDT W124
1992 Mercedes Benz 500E W124
Are you using the original shifter? Have you got an external tiptronic style shifter or maby paddles also?
Any videos from inside the car?
Very impressive build!
/Markus
------------------------------------------------
Cars currently owned:
1993 Mercedes Benz 300TDT W124
1992 Mercedes Benz 500E W124
(11-09-2015, 03:14 PM)-Mackan- Are you using the original shifter? Have you got an external tiptronic style shifter or maby paddles also?
Any videos from inside the car?
Very impressive build!
/Markus
I use original shifter from facelift w202. I have two buttons near shifter to shift manually, paddles would be better but I haven't found them with reasonable price.
(11-09-2015, 03:14 PM)-Mackan- Are you using the original shifter? Have you got an external tiptronic style shifter or maby paddles also?
Any videos from inside the car?
Very impressive build!
/Markus
I use original shifter from facelift w202. I have two buttons near shifter to shift manually, paddles would be better but I haven't found them with reasonable price.
(11-09-2015, 03:30 PM)erx(11-09-2015, 03:14 PM)-Mackan- Are you using the original shifter? Have you got an external tiptronic style shifter or maby paddles also?
Any videos from inside the car?
Very impressive build!
/Markus
I use original shifter from facelift w202. I have two buttons near shifter to shift manually, paddles would be better but I haven't found them with reasonable price.
Steering wheel from a W204!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/251959411744
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(11-09-2015, 03:30 PM)erx(11-09-2015, 03:14 PM)-Mackan- Are you using the original shifter? Have you got an external tiptronic style shifter or maby paddles also?
Any videos from inside the car?
Very impressive build!
/Markus
I use original shifter from facelift w202. I have two buttons near shifter to shift manually, paddles would be better but I haven't found them with reasonable price.
Steering wheel from a W204!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/251959411744
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
![[Image: IMG_5592_zpsk99velaz.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5592_zpsk99velaz.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_5594_zps5pawnavc.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5594_zps5pawnavc.jpg.html)
Summer is coming and new season is starting with new setup, need to make intercooler piping and few more little things. It has new radiator, bigger intercooler and oil cooler with electric vent for gearbox oil. Engine is not opened and all stock with 470k km/290k miles and I'm going to push it to the limit. Only mod I'm thinking of is stiffer valve springs but I'm not sure from what point they should be replaced. Last year it made over 500hp and it seemed to work fine, we'll see how it goes this year.
New oil cooler for gearbox
![[Image: IMG_5600_zpskmqaiotl.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5600_zpskmqaiotl.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_5601_zps1rzsxrf8.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5601_zps1rzsxrf8.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMG_5608_zpsbea9owsh.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/IMG_5608_zpsbea9owsh.jpg.html)
Engine is NEVER OPENED and ALL STOCK, no new internal parts and donor had 470k km. Only engine mod is 152bar injectors and nozzles are also stock. Now need to sort it out what is the cause of why it's not going over 3.2 bar.
RPM is a little less on sheet than actual because rpm signal was taken from PAS pump wheel.
![[Image: DSC_0819_zpsrf1rspps.jpg]](http://s236.photobucket.com/user/erx000/media/Mercedes/DSC_0819_zpsrf1rspps.jpg.html)
I got new pump from Dieselmeken, 8,0mm 220cc. Today was dyno day and I made 377kw/505hp/799nm from wheels. Don't know why but boost was only 3.2 bar, there was enough fuel but something was wrong with wastegate or maybe it really finally needs stiffer valve springs. Last year I made 433hp with HX40 and also 3.2 bar, now a lot bigger turbo and only 70hp more.
Engine is NEVER OPENED and ALL STOCK, no new internal parts and donor had 470k km. Only engine mod is 152bar injectors and nozzles are also stock. Now need to sort it out what is the cause of why it's not going over 3.2 bar.
RPM is a little less on sheet than actual because rpm signal was taken from PAS pump wheel.
Tell me something...
You exchanged the fuel line of tank until the Bosch 044?
bruno_pinho
06-08-2016, 03:22 PM #93Hi
Tell me something...
You exchanged the fuel line of tank until the Bosch 044?
(06-08-2016, 03:22 PM)bruno_pinho Hi
Tell me something...
You exchanged the fuel line of tank until the Bosch 044?
No, all stock. Fuel filter housing and all fuel lines are stock and it's smoking like crazy with 600hp.
I found out problems why I can't get over 3,2 bar. I have 0,7bar pressure in downpipe, exhaust is 3" and it's restricting flow. With 600hp it needs 2x3" or 1x4" exhaust to flow freely. And as I thought wastegate is not holding the pressure.
(06-08-2016, 03:22 PM)bruno_pinho Hi
Tell me something...
You exchanged the fuel line of tank until the Bosch 044?
No, all stock. Fuel filter housing and all fuel lines are stock and it's smoking like crazy with 600hp.
I found out problems why I can't get over 3,2 bar. I have 0,7bar pressure in downpipe, exhaust is 3" and it's restricting flow. With 600hp it needs 2x3" or 1x4" exhaust to flow freely. And as I thought wastegate is not holding the pressure.
(06-08-2016, 04:43 PM)erx(06-08-2016, 03:22 PM)bruno_pinho Hi
Tell me something...
You exchanged the fuel line of tank until the Bosch 044?
No, all stock. Fuel filter housing and all fuel lines are stock and it's smoking like crazy with 600hp.
I found out problems why I can't get over 3,2 bar. I have 0,7bar pressure in downpipe, exhaust is 3" and it's restricting flow. With 600hp it needs 2x3" or 1x4" exhaust to flow freely. And as I thought wastegate is not holding the pressure.
But the fuel pressure remains at full boost?
In my it does not happen,I will increase the diameter of the line to see if it improve...
bruno_pinho
06-08-2016, 05:04 PM #95(06-08-2016, 04:43 PM)erx(06-08-2016, 03:22 PM)bruno_pinho Hi
Tell me something...
You exchanged the fuel line of tank until the Bosch 044?
No, all stock. Fuel filter housing and all fuel lines are stock and it's smoking like crazy with 600hp.
I found out problems why I can't get over 3,2 bar. I have 0,7bar pressure in downpipe, exhaust is 3" and it's restricting flow. With 600hp it needs 2x3" or 1x4" exhaust to flow freely. And as I thought wastegate is not holding the pressure.
But the fuel pressure remains at full boost?
In my it does not happen,I will increase the diameter of the line to see if it improve...
And do you know what correction factor was used? Just trying to compare data.
whipplem104
06-10-2016, 08:05 AM #98I know you said the rpm scale was off but by how much do you think? And why does HP and TQ cross twice? I have never seen that before.
And do you know what correction factor was used? Just trying to compare data.
(06-10-2016, 08:05 AM)whipplem104 I know you said the rpm scale was off but by how much do you think? And why does HP and TQ cross twice? I have never seen that before.
And do you know what correction factor was used? Just trying to compare data.
I asked dyno operator and correction is DIN and smoothing is to max or something, I don't know these things. It was 5500 pull so it is showing less about 300rpm. On 1500rpm tacho and dyno are showing the same but on higher rpm seems like belt is slipping a little.
It is spooling earlyer on road, on dyno rpm is going up so quick that turbo can't completely spool up on lower rpm.
(06-10-2016, 08:05 AM)whipplem104 I know you said the rpm scale was off but by how much do you think? And why does HP and TQ cross twice? I have never seen that before.
And do you know what correction factor was used? Just trying to compare data.
I asked dyno operator and correction is DIN and smoothing is to max or something, I don't know these things. It was 5500 pull so it is showing less about 300rpm. On 1500rpm tacho and dyno are showing the same but on higher rpm seems like belt is slipping a little.
It is spooling earlyer on road, on dyno rpm is going up so quick that turbo can't completely spool up on lower rpm.
I'm surprised the 3inch is still causing restriction. Do you think you will do 4inch downpipe next and 3 inch for the rest of the system?
WOW awesome man 505hp! I'm aiming for close to that with valve springs, NA cam, redone cylinder head and 16cm hx40 super 200cc 8mm pump too.
I'm surprised the 3inch is still causing restriction. Do you think you will do 4inch downpipe next and 3 inch for the rest of the system?
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