W463 G-class OM606 + HE351W
W463 G-class OM606 + HE351W
Plan is to use Holset HE351VE turbocharger and Ole Fejers tranny controller.
I`m more familiar with petrol engines so I would like to ask your opinions.
This engine and tranny will go for W463 G350TD. Goal would be around 350-400hp.
What do you guys think of this turbo. Suitable for it? Or too big for low rpm torque?
I would like to have VGT turbo and HE351VE is quite reasonable priced as well.
I will rebuild the engine and transmission.
Custom exhaust manifold and modified intake manifold, custom cooler.
Pump should have 7.5 or 8.0 mm elements?
Thanks!
I have OM606.962 engine and 722.608 tranny.
Plan is to use Holset HE351VE turbocharger and Ole Fejers tranny controller.
I`m more familiar with petrol engines so I would like to ask your opinions.
This engine and tranny will go for W463 G350TD. Goal would be around 350-400hp.
What do you guys think of this turbo. Suitable for it? Or too big for low rpm torque?
I would like to have VGT turbo and HE351VE is quite reasonable priced as well.
I will rebuild the engine and transmission.
Custom exhaust manifold and modified intake manifold, custom cooler.
Pump should have 7.5 or 8.0 mm elements?
Thanks!
Here is some information on
Turbo: HE341VE
Motor: OM606
I have just changed my HE351VE to the smaller
HE341VE. it spools faster and gives more boost
at lover RPM.
Here are some numbers in high gear, meaning
motor RPM rise slow. giving the turbo more time
to build boost.
The engine feels fantastic pulling from 2500 -
5000 RPM
Now width the HE341VE
0.5 bar at 2000 RPM (EGP 0,8)
1.0 bar at 2500 RPM (EGP 1,3)
1.5 bar at 2700 RPM (EGP 1,8)
1.8 bar at 3000 RPM (EGP 2,1)
holding 1.8 bar all the way to 5000 RPM
(120,000 Turbo RPM)
Before width the HE351VE
0.5 bar at 2500 RPM (EGP 0,8)
1.0 bar at 3000 RPM (EGP 1,3)
1.5 bar at 3500 RPM (EGP 1,8)
1.8 bar at 3700 RPM (EGP 2,1)
1.8 bar at 5000 RPM (EGP 2,1) (95,000 Turbo
RPM)
Quoting olefejer himself:
Here is some information on
Turbo: HE341VE
Motor: OM606
I have just changed my HE351VE to the smaller
HE341VE. it spools faster and gives more boost
at lover RPM.
Here are some numbers in high gear, meaning
motor RPM rise slow. giving the turbo more time
to build boost.
The engine feels fantastic pulling from 2500 -
5000 RPM
Now width the HE341VE
0.5 bar at 2000 RPM (EGP 0,8)
1.0 bar at 2500 RPM (EGP 1,3)
1.5 bar at 2700 RPM (EGP 1,8)
1.8 bar at 3000 RPM (EGP 2,1)
holding 1.8 bar all the way to 5000 RPM
(120,000 Turbo RPM)
Before width the HE351VE
0.5 bar at 2500 RPM (EGP 0,8)
1.0 bar at 3000 RPM (EGP 1,3)
1.5 bar at 3500 RPM (EGP 1,8)
1.8 bar at 3700 RPM (EGP 2,1)
1.8 bar at 5000 RPM (EGP 2,1) (95,000 Turbo
RPM)
This doesn't mean that no vnt turbo works on 606, but I'd bet my money next time on compounding. If not that, BW vnt.
I had 606 + He351VE and wouldn't do it again, one can achieve similar results with modern conventional turbo. You cannot only look at boost readings at specific rpm because on spoolup you'll be making more backpressure than you would on normal turbo, hence it doesn't pull as strong. Imo it's just not worth all the extra work.
This doesn't mean that no vnt turbo works on 606, but I'd bet my money next time on compounding. If not that, BW vnt.
(02-16-2015, 04:38 PM)hents99 I bought HE351VE turbocharger.
I have also Eaton M112 supercharger and I had no idea what to do with it until now.
Is it bad idea to run with supercharger and turbo? Is m112 too big for this engine?
I plan on using virtually the same setup. Supercharger feeding turbo.
I'm only going to use a basic VGT controller which uses the vanes for engine braking (so far)
I think the blower would compliment the lack of bottom end quite nicely, and help spool the turbo up of course .Then you could have a diverter open once the VGT has enough exhaust flow to work with.
(Naturally you're better off with an electronic controller and proper sized turbo, and get rid of the blower)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
(02-16-2015, 04:38 PM)hents99 I bought HE351VE turbocharger.
I have also Eaton M112 supercharger and I had no idea what to do with it until now.
Is it bad idea to run with supercharger and turbo? Is m112 too big for this engine?
I plan on using virtually the same setup. Supercharger feeding turbo.
I'm only going to use a basic VGT controller which uses the vanes for engine braking (so far)
I think the blower would compliment the lack of bottom end quite nicely, and help spool the turbo up of course .Then you could have a diverter open once the VGT has enough exhaust flow to work with.
(Naturally you're better off with an electronic controller and proper sized turbo, and get rid of the blower)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
They are quite big, but bigger is better - doesn't have to spin as fast to flow as much as a M90 and the air coming out would be cooler. I think
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
I use OM606 N/A intake and weld 2 laminova water to air cooler cores into manifold. There is just no space to mount intercooler to G-class without cutting anything.
I going to offer bolt-on kit like this. Turbo, manifold, intake manifold with cooler, aux water pump, piping from turbo to intake. Oil feed and return.
![[Image: 57782-WP_20150424_14_48_45_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/57782-WP_20150424_14_48_45_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 77962-WP_20150424_14_48_56_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/77962-WP_20150424_14_48_56_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 65985-WP_20150421_15_02_40_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/65985-WP_20150421_15_02_40_Pro.jpg)
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I got new turbocharger yesterday. It`s Holset HE351W with 12# turbine housing. I hope it`s not too big.
I use OM606 N/A intake and weld 2 laminova water to air cooler cores into manifold. There is just no space to mount intercooler to G-class without cutting anything.
I going to offer bolt-on kit like this. Turbo, manifold, intake manifold with cooler, aux water pump, piping from turbo to intake. Oil feed and return.
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raysorenson
04-25-2015, 01:12 PM #11That's badass. This is the first Laminova DIY I've seen on the web. Can't wait to see how it works out.
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How much power 7mm elements can supply?
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![[Image: 48279-WP_20150516_12_56_59_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/48279-WP_20150516_12_56_59_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 35674-WP_20150516_15_12_39_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/35674-WP_20150516_15_12_39_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 94723-WP_20150516_15_43_39_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/94723-WP_20150516_15_43_39_Pro.jpg)
I like this intake pipe more:
![[Image: 39596-WP_20150516_19_16_29_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/39596-WP_20150516_19_16_29_Pro.jpg)
Turbo compressor housing is still too hot.....
Edit: here it is:
![[Image: 39894-WP_20150516_19_50_12_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/39894-WP_20150516_19_50_12_Pro.jpg)
Can`t wait when I get my g-wagen from paint shop.....it`s going to be "Sepang Bronze" (A32 BMW paint code).....like my another project:
![[Image: 89958-DSC_3958.JPG]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/89958-DSC_3958.JPG)
Laminova cooler intake test version will be ready soon.
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I like this intake pipe more:
Turbo compressor housing is still too hot.....
Edit: here it is:
Can`t wait when I get my g-wagen from paint shop.....it`s going to be "Sepang Bronze" (A32 BMW paint code).....like my another project:
Laminova cooler intake test version will be ready soon.
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Anyway turbo piping fits. Welding laminova cooler cores into manifold is basically final step with engine. Pump is in diesel shop for adjusting quantities and hope to get it back soon.
![[Image: 87937-WP_20150518_10_17_22_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/87937-WP_20150518_10_17_22_Pro.jpg)
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That`s good to know. Won`t need more power. I hope it spools fast enough. G500 with 218kW / 456Nm is quite lazy at low rpms.
Anyway turbo piping fits. Welding laminova cooler cores into manifold is basically final step with engine. Pump is in diesel shop for adjusting quantities and hope to get it back soon.
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![[Image: FalkonSig.png]](http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t162/DanielWGK2/designs/FalkonSig.png)
![[Image: 94949-WP_20150522_14_20_59_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/94949-WP_20150522_14_20_59_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 96995-WP_20150522_14_19_52_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/96995-WP_20150522_14_19_52_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 73426-WP_20150522_14_20_49_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/73426-WP_20150522_14_20_49_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 58986-WP_20150520_17_30_12_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/58986-WP_20150520_17_30_12_Pro.jpg)
Upgrading 2.3-16 is so simple....Diesel world is different. It`s my first diesel project.
Tuning process is what I´m afraid of. It`s easy with petrol engines. Mapping with computer and you always get correct air fuel mixture.
With mechanical pump I can`t do basically anything. Just hope it`s not smoking too much.....I really hate when car smokes. Like something is broken.
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Intake then...
Upgrading 2.3-16 is so simple....Diesel world is different. It`s my first diesel project.
Tuning process is what I´m afraid of. It`s easy with petrol engines. Mapping with computer and you always get correct air fuel mixture.
With mechanical pump I can`t do basically anything. Just hope it`s not smoking too much.....I really hate when car smokes. Like something is broken.
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![[Image: 59238-WP_20150522_21_24_07_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/59238-WP_20150522_21_24_07_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 26629-WP_20150522_21_23_26_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/26629-WP_20150522_21_23_26_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 55372-WP_20150522_21_31_02_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/55372-WP_20150522_21_31_02_Pro.jpg)
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Intake runners are long anyway.
Well, we`ll see what`s happening....
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Flow is not a problem and this engine won`t see high rpms like petrol engines. Manifold design is not perfect at all but enough for my needs and for this engine.
Intake runners are long anyway.
Well, we`ll see what`s happening....
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1. Do you preheat cast aluminum before welding it to prevent it from cracking? If so, what temperature?
2. Did you CNC cut the mounting plates for the laminova cores?
-ok, one more-
3. What settings did you use when welding the manifold and turbo? Amps, balance, Hz, rod type and thickness. If you do not mind. Please and thank you.
atypicalguy
05-23-2015, 11:43 AM #23That is some nice welding on the plenum. I have always been a bit hesitant to weld on aluminum castings, so I have two questions:
1. Do you preheat cast aluminum before welding it to prevent it from cracking? If so, what temperature?
2. Did you CNC cut the mounting plates for the laminova cores?
-ok, one more-
3. What settings did you use when welding the manifold and turbo? Amps, balance, Hz, rod type and thickness. If you do not mind. Please and thank you.
I made drawings and send them to water cut/jet. Pipes are milled with manual mill.
Settings.....my TIG welder is analog type and display is not showing correct numbers. Trial-error works
Most important is that material should be as clean as possible. It`s not nice welding to be honest. Not at all. But it`s not leaking and it`s strong and solid.
Before this work I welded 2-3 months ago. So I don`t weld too often anymore.
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I didn`t preheat the cast aluminum but it`s better of course.
I made drawings and send them to water cut/jet. Pipes are milled with manual mill.
Settings.....my TIG welder is analog type and display is not showing correct numbers. Trial-error works
Most important is that material should be as clean as possible. It`s not nice welding to be honest. Not at all. But it`s not leaking and it`s strong and solid.
Before this work I welded 2-3 months ago. So I don`t weld too often anymore.
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DiseaselWeasel
06-14-2015, 03:18 AM #26I still don't fully comprehend those laminova things. Will you be taking measurements of charge air temperature pre- and post-charge cooler? This would be very interesting!
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I haven`t installed the engine into car because body is still in paint shop. I think I install 2 air temp sensors to see the effect.
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![[Image: 85547-WP_20150707_15_12_21_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/85547-WP_20150707_15_12_21_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 74539-WP_20150707_15_12_13_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/74539-WP_20150707_15_12_13_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 76584-WP_20150707_15_12_34_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/76584-WP_20150707_15_12_34_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 76649-WP_20150707_15_12_59_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/76649-WP_20150707_15_12_59_Pro.jpg)
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What is that crossover pipe from?
What did you do with the Aircleaner?
ReGards from SA
Alan
That looks awesome, in fact the best solution I have seen. Will be watching this thread closely as my OM606 is on standby for my 463 300GD. Hope the intercooler is as effective as it looks.
What is that crossover pipe from?
What did you do with the Aircleaner?
ReGards from SA
Alan
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Intake manifold and crossover pipe both from 606 non-turbo engine.
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![[Image: 68978-WP_20150713_15_52_59_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/68978-WP_20150713_15_52_59_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 38832-WP_20150713_15_53_08_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/38832-WP_20150713_15_53_08_Pro.jpg)
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Here`s my original intake manifold which going to another Estonian member "erx" engine. Today I made some modifications for him. 3" inlet.
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![[Image: 44444-WP_20150703_16_57_18_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/44444-WP_20150703_16_57_18_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 57236-WP_20150703_16_57_23_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/57236-WP_20150703_16_57_23_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 69725-WP_20150703_16_57_33_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/69725-WP_20150703_16_57_33_Pro.jpg)
Finding engine TDC. It`s 75-degree V2 engine. Way different from regular "180-degree" engines.
![[Image: 84895-WP_20150710_16_55_42_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/84895-WP_20150710_16_55_42_Pro.jpg)
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Meanwhile in workshop....hillclimb motorcycle. KTM LC8 with standalone and turbo.
Finding engine TDC. It`s 75-degree V2 engine. Way different from regular "180-degree" engines.
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Your shop has tile floors, glass walls and display cases?!
Are you a Bond villain?!
Ignore me. I'm just jealous...
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Lol!
Your shop has tile floors, glass walls and display cases?!
Are you a Bond villain?!
Ignore me. I'm just jealous...
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Garage has dirty concrete floor unfortunately.
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I don`t have cars in this building
Garage has dirty concrete floor unfortunately.
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'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Pretty sweet. I just visiting a injection pump specialist yesterday, and his son had a Harley Davidson victory with a little Garrett mounted on it. Put down 140hp at the back wheel with the clutch slipping
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
![[Image: 93694-WP_20150719_20_26_59_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/93694-WP_20150719_20_26_59_Pro.jpg)
![[Image: 49848-WP_20150719_20_23_39_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/49848-WP_20150719_20_23_39_Pro.jpg)
Motorcycle going to have new intake manifold.
![[Image: 83896-WP_20150719_20_40_03_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/83896-WP_20150719_20_40_03_Pro.jpg)
G-wagen will be painted in few days and I can start OM606 conversion.
Question about fuel pressure between fuel pump and diesel injection pump. Walbro 255 LPH pump should be enough for up to 400hp.
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Some stainless steel work. These are W126 560 (300hp version) downpipes.
Motorcycle going to have new intake manifold.
G-wagen will be painted in few days and I can start OM606 conversion.
Question about fuel pressure between fuel pump and diesel injection pump. Walbro 255 LPH pump should be enough for up to 400hp.
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![[Image: 62798-WP_20150806_14_35_51_Pro.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/62798-WP_20150806_14_35_51_Pro.jpg)
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I start swapping engine next week I hope.
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I hope to get this information from you
I start swapping engine next week I hope.
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I also started my conversion and for now am only doing the 6 speed box. 716.654
It seems to be a tight fit but it does go in. I still nedd to fabricate the rear flange to fit G 8 hole flange. I also need to fabricate the shifter still to be to my liking. So far I can shift but am not happy yet. It does need the stabilizing frame for better shifting.
The cross member is also not yet done and I am considering using a flat bar and fitting the original rear gearbox mount . Suggestions?
PS. I do not want to cut the original crossmember, hence the flat bar, plus it will fit better.
Hi Guys,
I also started my conversion and for now am only doing the 6 speed box. 716.654
It seems to be a tight fit but it does go in. I still nedd to fabricate the rear flange to fit G 8 hole flange. I also need to fabricate the shifter still to be to my liking. So far I can shift but am not happy yet. It does need the stabilizing frame for better shifting.
The cross member is also not yet done and I am considering using a flat bar and fitting the original rear gearbox mount . Suggestions?
PS. I do not want to cut the original crossmember, hence the flat bar, plus it will fit better.
What have you done with engine? Is it stock?
I was searching pictures of transmission mounting plate I made to my previous G-wagen project. It was W460 230GE and I installed 5.0 M117 engine:
![[Image: 83257-Foto0179.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/83257-Foto0179.jpg)
Here is custom made transmission mounting plate:
![[Image: 47563-Foto0436.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/47563-Foto0436.jpg)
![[Image: 54952-Foto0410.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/54952-Foto0410.jpg)
![[Image: 59627-Foto0411.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/59627-Foto0411.jpg)
![[Image: 48578-Foto0447.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/48578-Foto0447.jpg)
![[Image: 76833-Foto0464.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/76833-Foto0464.jpg)
![[Image: 96356-Foto0470.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/96356-Foto0470.jpg)
![[Image: 34693-Foto0503.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/34693-Foto0503.jpg)
![[Image: 99493-Foto0502.jpg]](http://pildipark.clubmb.ee/pilt/99493-Foto0502.jpg)
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Lucky that you don`t have 3 shifter rods like old boxes. Real PITA.
What have you done with engine? Is it stock?
I was searching pictures of transmission mounting plate I made to my previous G-wagen project. It was W460 230GE and I installed 5.0 M117 engine:
Here is custom made transmission mounting plate:
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(08-13-2015, 08:27 AM)hents99 I hope to get this information from you
I start swapping engine next week I hope.
I have found a source for axle lenghts but I see that you are going with another tranny than me. I'm going to use the 722.6 transmission. If you want the lengths of the various axles from g-wagon I have most of them in a document I found searching for mine. I need to shorten mine 2.5cm to get it in. I bought the stock flange from G-wagon with 606.964 engine off ebay and replaced the triangle flange I see you have on your transmission.
btw, are you selling those laser cut things for the laminova coolers? I could use those
(08-13-2015, 08:27 AM)hents99 I hope to get this information from you
I start swapping engine next week I hope.
I have found a source for axle lenghts but I see that you are going with another tranny than me. I'm going to use the 722.6 transmission. If you want the lengths of the various axles from g-wagon I have most of them in a document I found searching for mine. I need to shorten mine 2.5cm to get it in. I bought the stock flange from G-wagon with 606.964 engine off ebay and replaced the triangle flange I see you have on your transmission.
btw, are you selling those laser cut things for the laminova coolers? I could use those
Laminova intake will be bolt on product as soon as i test it. Then i can offer bolt on om606 turbo kit too.
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I use 722.6 tranny. Same conversion as you do. Jambo has manual 6spd gearbox.
Laminova intake will be bolt on product as soon as i test it. Then i can offer bolt on om606 turbo kit too.
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Yes. 606 turbo manifold is different. I`m using 606 non-turbo intake manifold because I can`t find a place where to mount intercooler and piping. I don`t want to cut original details. That`s why.
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