Rebuilding an OM606 Questions
Rebuilding an OM606 Questions
07-14-2015, 09:33 AM
#1
I'm looking at having my engine rebuilt before I use it in the Land Rover project. Can anyone on here recommend an engine rebuilder in the UK with a good reputation what is capable of building an OM606?
I've quite tempted to do it myself, however at the moment I have more cash available than I have time and I can be getting on with other aspects of the full rebuild of the car. Which is the best OM606 manual? Do Mercedes have an easily available, in depth, manual for the tolerances etc?
Thanks in advance, and sorry if they're questions that have been asked before and I've missed finding the answers. Feel free to point me in the direction of the relevant threads.
EDIT: I should also add, that I'm wanting to port the head and also fully balance the engine.
This post was last modified: 07-14-2015, 09:34 AM by ross.
What would you change/look out for when rebuilding an OM606? A reliable 350-400bhp is the current goal. Are any things like Rods/Pistons worth changing while its apart?
I'm looking at having my engine rebuilt before I use it in the Land Rover project. Can anyone on here recommend an engine rebuilder in the UK with a good reputation what is capable of building an OM606?
I've quite tempted to do it myself, however at the moment I have more cash available than I have time and I can be getting on with other aspects of the full rebuild of the car. Which is the best OM606 manual? Do Mercedes have an easily available, in depth, manual for the tolerances etc?
Thanks in advance, and sorry if they're questions that have been asked before and I've missed finding the answers. Feel free to point me in the direction of the relevant threads.
EDIT: I should also add, that I'm wanting to port the head and also fully balance the engine.
07-14-2015, 10:06 AM
#3
porting the head is not needed for 350HP , the only thing u need is a super pump and a decent set off VNT turbos!!! charge cooler dada those things.
for the superpump pm me.
FD,
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150K of what , statute miles , km ? if is 150.000 km that engine is still as new, no rebuilding is needed.
porting the head is not needed for 350HP , the only thing u need is a super pump and a decent set off VNT turbos!!! charge cooler dada those things.
for the superpump pm me.
FD,
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07-14-2015, 06:55 PM
#4
(07-14-2015, 10:06 AM)barrote 150K of what , statute miles , km ? if is 150.000 km that engine is still as new, no rebuilding is needed.
porting the head is not needed for 350HP , the only thing u need is a super pump and a decent set off VNT turbos!!! charge cooler dada those things.
for the superpump pm me.
150k miles. Porting may not be 'needed' but it will still have benefits and worth doing while the head is being refreshed.
The engine had been stood for a year, so was a bit smokey when driven up the farm drive and back a couple of times. Absolutely everything on the car will be better than new when it goes together, so the engine will be no different
.
(07-14-2015, 10:06 AM)barrote 150K of what , statute miles , km ? if is 150.000 km that engine is still as new, no rebuilding is needed.
porting the head is not needed for 350HP , the only thing u need is a super pump and a decent set off VNT turbos!!! charge cooler dada those things.
for the superpump pm me.
150k miles. Porting may not be 'needed' but it will still have benefits and worth doing while the head is being refreshed.
The engine had been stood for a year, so was a bit smokey when driven up the farm drive and back a couple of times. Absolutely everything on the car will be better than new when it goes together, so the engine will be no different
.
07-15-2015, 04:58 AM
#7
u dont need to rebuild that engine, neither u need porting or head jobs , is wasted Money since its going in a land rover!
but thats your walet, clutch and gerboxes should be your concern!!!
regards
FD,
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and what a about of 2 tons of E class sedam 200k/h highway up and down, or the infamous S class !!! what about that?
u dont need to rebuild that engine, neither u need porting or head jobs , is wasted Money since its going in a land rover!
but thats your walet, clutch and gerboxes should be your concern!!!
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
07-16-2015, 02:41 PM
#8
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Sometimes leaving it unopened is the best choice.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
07-16-2015, 11:58 PM
#11
It's basically making a second woodruff key on the crankshaft registry wheel. I've heard that people do this on the cam wheel (the one that's on the reg chain) also but I won't do that yet on this engine I think. Machining the crank/wheel is ofc a better solution but this method let me fix it with the crankshaft in the engine.
Look in my project thread here for pictures and description on how to not do it properly It's basically making a second woodruff key on the crankshaft registry wheel. I've heard that people do this on the cam wheel (the one that's on the reg chain) also but I won't do that yet on this engine I think. Machining the crank/wheel is ofc a better solution but this method let me fix it with the crankshaft in the engine.
07-17-2015, 02:05 AM
#12
(07-16-2015, 07:31 PM)barrote what mod is that? got me curiuos
Its where you drill a hole between where the pulley and shaft interact which you can then add an additional key rather than just relying on a single key (which could sheer) - its usually done on the top camshaft pulley but makes sense to do it on the crank as well.
(07-16-2015, 07:31 PM)barrote what mod is that? got me curiuos
Its where you drill a hole between where the pulley and shaft interact which you can then add an additional key rather than just relying on a single key (which could sheer) - its usually done on the top camshaft pulley but makes sense to do it on the crank as well.
07-17-2015, 04:57 AM
#13
Usually camshaft sprokets have a position pin, that what it is , "a position pin" , and 3 bolts with 10/.75threads ,sae 10.8 whereas special type bolt. tight strenght 35N. it should be enough to hold that , if for any reason that pin slips under load so as the bolts cause they have no play, and your head will be destroyed.
The crank shaft sprocket is hold in place by a half moon pin , which can shear under load , in this case very unlikly cause it is bolted against the harmonic damper with a 27mm nut, tight strenght a lot. the same happens if for any reason it slips , being a 1/4 size sprocked , compared to the head, the head will be destroyed a long before that can slip.
there are no mysteries in mechanics , althoug miracles happen every now and then.....
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
forguet that!! not needed,
Usually camshaft sprokets have a position pin, that what it is , "a position pin" , and 3 bolts with 10/.75threads ,sae 10.8 whereas special type bolt. tight strenght 35N. it should be enough to hold that , if for any reason that pin slips under load so as the bolts cause they have no play, and your head will be destroyed.
The crank shaft sprocket is hold in place by a half moon pin , which can shear under load , in this case very unlikly cause it is bolted against the harmonic damper with a 27mm nut, tight strenght a lot. the same happens if for any reason it slips , being a 1/4 size sprocked , compared to the head, the head will be destroyed a long before that can slip.
there are no mysteries in mechanics , althoug miracles happen every now and then.....
FD,
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07-17-2015, 10:10 AM
#14
Do not port the head as it will cost you low end torque - Remember ports should be narrow for low rpm TQ & wide for high rpm TQ, ergo the exact opposite of what you wish to achieve. Also the 606 has 12.no inlet ports from the factory..
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
Forget the rebuild as it is not needed, several consecutive oil changes are though - To remove all of the old stoff from the cores & lifters etc.
Do not port the head as it will cost you low end torque - Remember ports should be narrow for low rpm TQ & wide for high rpm TQ, ergo the exact opposite of what you wish to achieve. Also the 606 has 12.no inlet ports from the factory..
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
07-17-2015, 10:22 AM
#15
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
If so called jesus bolt, or main crank bolt is tightened to spec, nothing moves. That woodrruff key is only for positioning, entire force put through that gear is held by pressure joint. Thats the reason for such high tightening torque, bolt is stretch type never to be installed twice, always use new one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
07-17-2015, 04:12 PM
#16
A bit offtopic..
starnovy, where does it say that it is a stretch bolt and that it should be replaced? Just curious cause it doesn't say anything about that in WIS and I also asked when I ordered the special washer at the mercedes dealer if the bolt should be replaced once taken out and they said that I didn't need to replace it. On Audi 20V engines I've worked on before I replaced it each time I had it up but since it was not in WIS and the dealership said it wasn't needed I didn't replace it. I tighthened mine to 480Nm + strong locktite.
Well I got no clue I just got told that it was a smart thing to do to prevent damage from it clipping. Got a picture from someone here that clipped the key at the crank and was only a few degrees from trashing the engine so I choose to be safe side and mod it when I got the engine out. Also when I saw that the key holding the belt-pulley had clipped a bit on the woodruff key on my engine I kinda figured that it was to much of a coincidence when the wheel at my engine had moved and they guy I was getting the advice from had also had it moving.
A bit offtopic..
starnovy, where does it say that it is a stretch bolt and that it should be replaced? Just curious cause it doesn't say anything about that in WIS and I also asked when I ordered the special washer at the mercedes dealer if the bolt should be replaced once taken out and they said that I didn't need to replace it. On Audi 20V engines I've worked on before I replaced it each time I had it up but since it was not in WIS and the dealership said it wasn't needed I didn't replace it. I tighthened mine to 480Nm + strong locktite.
07-18-2015, 12:38 AM
#17
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Never seen one that was not stretch type, it comes from fundamental function of that joint. The bolt must enter plastic deformation otherwise that pressure joint would loosen up by heat cycling and vibrations. You can say that bolt in plastic deformation like this works like massive spring with tension of few thousand kilograms which can compensate for those disturbances.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
07-18-2015, 02:19 AM
#18
(07-18-2015, 12:38 AM)starynovy Never seen one that was not stretch type, it comes from fundamental function of that joint. The bolt must enter plastic deformation otherwise that pressure joint would loosen up by heat cycling and vibrations. You can say that bolt in plastic deformation like this works like massive spring with tension of few thousand kilograms which can compensate for those disturbances.
Ok. It's just that WIS is usually very accurate and describing details like this. Like on the bolts for the driven plate at the rear it says specifically "The internal torx bolt T55 should be replaced when performing repairs". Or on the propeller shaft it says "When installing the propeller shaft ensure that this is aligned between the mounting flanges of the transfer case and automatic transmission. Replace bolts.". The output flange from the gearbox has the same not "Installation: Use new collar nut" and I could go on. Document number for the remove/install of the belt pulley/vibration damper is AR03.30-P-1600HA if you want to have a look at it.
If you are 100% sure this bolt should be replaced each time then that might be the reason why many are experiencing problems with broken woodruff key here since both the Mercedes dealer says it's not needed to change it and WIS doesn't have any info on it.
This post was last modified: 07-18-2015, 02:39 AM by minim.
(07-18-2015, 12:38 AM)starynovy Never seen one that was not stretch type, it comes from fundamental function of that joint. The bolt must enter plastic deformation otherwise that pressure joint would loosen up by heat cycling and vibrations. You can say that bolt in plastic deformation like this works like massive spring with tension of few thousand kilograms which can compensate for those disturbances.
Ok. It's just that WIS is usually very accurate and describing details like this. Like on the bolts for the driven plate at the rear it says specifically "The internal torx bolt T55 should be replaced when performing repairs". Or on the propeller shaft it says "When installing the propeller shaft ensure that this is aligned between the mounting flanges of the transfer case and automatic transmission. Replace bolts.". The output flange from the gearbox has the same not "Installation: Use new collar nut" and I could go on. Document number for the remove/install of the belt pulley/vibration damper is AR03.30-P-1600HA if you want to have a look at it.
If you are 100% sure this bolt should be replaced each time then that might be the reason why many are experiencing problems with broken woodruff key here since both the Mercedes dealer says it's not needed to change it and WIS doesn't have any info on it.
07-23-2015, 08:44 AM
#19
(07-15-2015, 04:58 AM)barrote and what a about of 2 tons of E class sedam 200k/h highway up and down, or the infamous S class !!! what about that?
u dont need to rebuild that engine, neither u need porting or head jobs , is wasted Money since its going in a land rover!
but thats your walet, clutch and gerboxes should be your concern!!!
regards
None of the mercs its used in are going to have a 3500KG trailer hanging off the back of them on a regular basis, so it is going to be working harder than in a merc for sure. So a rebuild would be a good idea, that way also everything on the car is starting fresh at the same time.
(07-17-2015, 10:10 AM)Hario Forget the rebuild as it is not needed, several consecutive oil changes are though - To remove all of the old stoff from the cores & lifters etc.
Do not port the head as it will cost you low end torque - Remember ports should be narrow for low rpm TQ & wide for high rpm TQ, ergo the exact opposite of what you wish to achieve. Also the 606 has 12.no inlet ports from the factory..
Porting can be done without loosing low end torque, its just got to be done right. However, I should have been clearer, its going to be more about port matching for better flow than going for the biggest ports possible.
(07-15-2015, 04:58 AM)barrote and what a about of 2 tons of E class sedam 200k/h highway up and down, or the infamous S class !!! what about that?
u dont need to rebuild that engine, neither u need porting or head jobs , is wasted Money since its going in a land rover!
but thats your walet, clutch and gerboxes should be your concern!!!
regards
None of the mercs its used in are going to have a 3500KG trailer hanging off the back of them on a regular basis, so it is going to be working harder than in a merc for sure. So a rebuild would be a good idea, that way also everything on the car is starting fresh at the same time.
(07-17-2015, 10:10 AM)Hario Forget the rebuild as it is not needed, several consecutive oil changes are though - To remove all of the old stoff from the cores & lifters etc.
Do not port the head as it will cost you low end torque - Remember ports should be narrow for low rpm TQ & wide for high rpm TQ, ergo the exact opposite of what you wish to achieve. Also the 606 has 12.no inlet ports from the factory..
Porting can be done without loosing low end torque, its just got to be done right. However, I should have been clearer, its going to be more about port matching for better flow than going for the biggest ports possible.
07-23-2015, 03:21 PM
#20
(07-23-2015, 08:44 AM)ross(07-15-2015, 04:58 AM)barrote and what a about of 2 tons of E class sedam 200k/h highway up and down, or the infamous S class !!! what about that?
u dont need to rebuild that engine, neither u need porting or head jobs , is wasted Money since its going in a land rover!
but thats your walet, clutch and gerboxes should be your concern!!!
regards
None of the mercs its used in are going to have a 3500KG trailer hanging off the back of them on a regular basis, so it is going to be working harder than in a merc for sure. So a rebuild would be a good idea, that way also everything on the car is starting fresh at the same time.
606.964 is used in Mercedes Geländewagen that is in your class of car. It's also registered with 3500kg trailer weight. If you are using a engine from a E-class you have another bellypan than the geländewagen has so it's not as suited to an offroad environment as the Geländewagen bellypan/oilpump. The oil pickup extends much lower on that pump and the pan looks a bit different. I'll attach a photo of my OM606.962 with the oilpan from OM606.964. I actually used the pump/pan from my OM603 engine that was in my Geländewagen but the bellypan has the exact same part number on those two engines.
http://lokalhost.org/bil/gvogn/om606/180...G_0988.JPG
This post was last modified: 07-23-2015, 03:22 PM by minim.
(07-23-2015, 08:44 AM)ross(07-15-2015, 04:58 AM)barrote and what a about of 2 tons of E class sedam 200k/h highway up and down, or the infamous S class !!! what about that?
u dont need to rebuild that engine, neither u need porting or head jobs , is wasted Money since its going in a land rover!
but thats your walet, clutch and gerboxes should be your concern!!!
regards
None of the mercs its used in are going to have a 3500KG trailer hanging off the back of them on a regular basis, so it is going to be working harder than in a merc for sure. So a rebuild would be a good idea, that way also everything on the car is starting fresh at the same time.
606.964 is used in Mercedes Geländewagen that is in your class of car. It's also registered with 3500kg trailer weight. If you are using a engine from a E-class you have another bellypan than the geländewagen has so it's not as suited to an offroad environment as the Geländewagen bellypan/oilpump. The oil pickup extends much lower on that pump and the pan looks a bit different. I'll attach a photo of my OM606.962 with the oilpan from OM606.964. I actually used the pump/pan from my OM603 engine that was in my Geländewagen but the bellypan has the exact same part number on those two engines.
http://lokalhost.org/bil/gvogn/om606/180...G_0988.JPG
07-24-2015, 06:55 AM
#22
(07-24-2015, 05:02 AM)ross Fair point, I had forgotten the G.
thanks for the picture and info, I'd be interested to see any more pictures if you have them? Part numbers would be useful too.
If you remove all behind "om606" in that link there are more pictures. I'm going away for work now for 14 days so I don't have access to EpC here :/ can check in 14 days if you have time to wait.
(07-24-2015, 05:02 AM)ross Fair point, I had forgotten the G.
thanks for the picture and info, I'd be interested to see any more pictures if you have them? Part numbers would be useful too.
If you remove all behind "om606" in that link there are more pictures. I'm going away for work now for 14 days so I don't have access to EpC here :/ can check in 14 days if you have time to wait.
07-25-2015, 06:15 PM
#23
Factory installed cooling:
- Water to air (the radiator)
- Oil->Air (with fan forced air)
- Oil->Water
- Transmission->Air
- Transmission->Water
- Intercooler (too small - my opinion)
I've got the G with the OM606 factory installed. After the problems with the G350, the factory got religion on cooling. They paid careful attention to cooling for the G300.
Factory installed cooling:
- Water to air (the radiator)
- Oil->Air (with fan forced air)
- Oil->Water
- Transmission->Air
- Transmission->Water
- Intercooler (too small - my opinion)
07-26-2015, 04:01 AM
#24
(07-24-2015, 06:55 AM)minim(07-24-2015, 05:02 AM)ross Fair point, I had forgotten the G.
thanks for the picture and info, I'd be interested to see any more pictures if you have them? Part numbers would be useful too.
If you remove all behind "om606" in that link there are more pictures. I'm going away for work now for 14 days so I don't have access to EpC here :/ can check in 14 days if you have time to wait.
Thanks, I'll have a look!
(07-24-2015, 06:55 AM)minim(07-24-2015, 05:02 AM)ross Fair point, I had forgotten the G.
thanks for the picture and info, I'd be interested to see any more pictures if you have them? Part numbers would be useful too.
If you remove all behind "om606" in that link there are more pictures. I'm going away for work now for 14 days so I don't have access to EpC here :/ can check in 14 days if you have time to wait.
Thanks, I'll have a look!
07-31-2015, 01:09 AM
#25
EDH_Performance
07-31-2015, 01:09 AM #25It is a good thing to drill and install a m6 set-bolt between the intake camshaft and the sprocket. It is just pressed on and have a tendence to move...
07-31-2015, 06:44 AM
#26
(07-31-2015, 01:09 AM)EDH_Performance It is a good thing to drill and install a m6 set-bolt between the intake camshaft and the sprocket. It is just pressed on and have a tendence to move...
+1 on this, i TIG welded mine.
On a side note, i also drilled and tapped the head to m8 X1.25 studs for the cam holder, as i was concerned that m7 x 1.00 would be under strain with the added cam spring tension and higher load from increased rpm
Duncansport
07-31-2015, 06:44 AM #26(07-31-2015, 01:09 AM)EDH_Performance It is a good thing to drill and install a m6 set-bolt between the intake camshaft and the sprocket. It is just pressed on and have a tendence to move...
+1 on this, i TIG welded mine.
On a side note, i also drilled and tapped the head to m8 X1.25 studs for the cam holder, as i was concerned that m7 x 1.00 would be under strain with the added cam spring tension and higher load from increased rpm
08-01-2015, 12:59 AM
#27
(07-31-2015, 06:44 AM)Duncansport(07-31-2015, 01:09 AM)EDH_Performance It is a good thing to drill and install a m6 set-bolt between the intake camshaft and the sprocket. It is just pressed on and have a tendence to move...
+1 on this, i TIG welded mine.
On a side note, i also drilled and tapped the head to m8 X1.25 studs for the cam holder, as i was concerned that m7 x 1.00 would be under strain with the added cam spring tension and higher load from increased rpm
Don`t think it is needed..When my chain snapped at 6000rpm it was only the camshaft upper bearings that broke, not the bolts.
But if it make you feel more safe, nothing better than that
EDH_Performance
08-01-2015, 12:59 AM #27(07-31-2015, 06:44 AM)Duncansport(07-31-2015, 01:09 AM)EDH_Performance It is a good thing to drill and install a m6 set-bolt between the intake camshaft and the sprocket. It is just pressed on and have a tendence to move...
+1 on this, i TIG welded mine.
On a side note, i also drilled and tapped the head to m8 X1.25 studs for the cam holder, as i was concerned that m7 x 1.00 would be under strain with the added cam spring tension and higher load from increased rpm
Don`t think it is needed..When my chain snapped at 6000rpm it was only the camshaft upper bearings that broke, not the bolts.
But if it make you feel more safe, nothing better than that
08-03-2015, 06:46 AM
#28
(08-01-2015, 12:59 AM)EDH_Performance(07-31-2015, 06:44 AM)Duncansport(07-31-2015, 01:09 AM)EDH_Performance It is a good thing to drill and install a m6 set-bolt between the intake camshaft and the sprocket. It is just pressed on and have a tendence to move...
+1 on this, i TIG welded mine.
On a side note, i also drilled and tapped the head to m8 X1.25 studs for the cam holder, as i was concerned that m7 x 1.00 would be under strain with the added cam spring tension and higher load from increased rpm
Don`t think it is needed..When my chain snapped at 6000rpm it was only the camshaft upper bearings that broke, not the bolts.
But if it make you feel more safe, nothing better than that
Good to know, tough engines these are indeed.
Duncansport
08-03-2015, 06:46 AM #28(08-01-2015, 12:59 AM)EDH_Performance(07-31-2015, 06:44 AM)Duncansport(07-31-2015, 01:09 AM)EDH_Performance It is a good thing to drill and install a m6 set-bolt between the intake camshaft and the sprocket. It is just pressed on and have a tendence to move...
+1 on this, i TIG welded mine.
On a side note, i also drilled and tapped the head to m8 X1.25 studs for the cam holder, as i was concerned that m7 x 1.00 would be under strain with the added cam spring tension and higher load from increased rpm
Don`t think it is needed..When my chain snapped at 6000rpm it was only the camshaft upper bearings that broke, not the bolts.
But if it make you feel more safe, nothing better than that
Good to know, tough engines these are indeed.
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