R129 with OM606
R129 with OM606
10-20-2009, 10:43 PM
#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0lt0CqeGNk
cars
1991 W126 350SDL turbodiesel
1987 W124 E300D turbodiesel
1987 W126 300SDL turbodiesel
1984 W107 SL300D turbodiesel
1974 W115 /8 300D diesel
trucks
2001 Dodge RAM 3500 4x4 Cummins turbodiesel
boats
1974 Uniflite "Salty Dog" powered by
2x OM617.951 Mercedes Benz 5Cyl turbodiesels
oel_brenner
10-20-2009, 10:43 PM #1seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0lt0CqeGNk
cars
1991 W126 350SDL turbodiesel
1987 W124 E300D turbodiesel
1987 W126 300SDL turbodiesel
1984 W107 SL300D turbodiesel
1974 W115 /8 300D diesel
trucks
2001 Dodge RAM 3500 4x4 Cummins turbodiesel
boats
1974 Uniflite "Salty Dog" powered by
2x OM617.951 Mercedes Benz 5Cyl turbodiesels
10-21-2009, 12:03 AM
#2
This post was last modified: 10-21-2009, 12:27 AM by ForcedInduction.
fir469
Unregistered
10-24-2009, 04:35 PM
#3
fir469
10-24-2009, 04:35 PM #3I don't fully understand why most people bash waste veggie oil... My buddy is driving a 300TD 1983 and has put almost 50,000 miles on it running veggie with no problems what so ever. Only spent $80 this year on diesel... That sounds pretty good to me. Has had no problems with seals, no problems with filters, and no problem with injection pump. He lost maybe 2mpg with the conversion andd very little loss in power... He runs veggie all year long.
10-24-2009, 08:28 PM
#4
(10-24-2009, 04:35 PM)fir469 I don't fully understand why most people bash waste veggie oil... My buddy is driving a 300TD 1983 and has put almost 50,000 miles on it running veggie with no problems what so ever. Only spent $80 this year on diesel... That sounds pretty good to me. Has had no problems with seals, no problems with filters, and no problem with injection pump. He lost maybe 2mpg with the conversion andd very little loss in power... He runs veggie all year long.
when WVO burns all that extra FFA has to go somehere, and a lot of it winds up as black sticky goo in the prechamber and on the tip of the injector.
biodiesel (from WVO) OTOH is another story, all those extra fatty free acids are removed in the process of making biodiesel (when done properly)
cars
1991 W126 350SDL turbodiesel
1987 W124 E300D turbodiesel
1987 W126 300SDL turbodiesel
1984 W107 SL300D turbodiesel
1974 W115 /8 300D diesel
trucks
2001 Dodge RAM 3500 4x4 Cummins turbodiesel
boats
1974 Uniflite "Salty Dog" powered by
2x OM617.951 Mercedes Benz 5Cyl turbodiesels
oel_brenner
10-24-2009, 08:28 PM #4(10-24-2009, 04:35 PM)fir469 I don't fully understand why most people bash waste veggie oil... My buddy is driving a 300TD 1983 and has put almost 50,000 miles on it running veggie with no problems what so ever. Only spent $80 this year on diesel... That sounds pretty good to me. Has had no problems with seals, no problems with filters, and no problem with injection pump. He lost maybe 2mpg with the conversion andd very little loss in power... He runs veggie all year long.
when WVO burns all that extra FFA has to go somehere, and a lot of it winds up as black sticky goo in the prechamber and on the tip of the injector.
biodiesel (from WVO) OTOH is another story, all those extra fatty free acids are removed in the process of making biodiesel (when done properly)
cars
1991 W126 350SDL turbodiesel
1987 W124 E300D turbodiesel
1987 W126 300SDL turbodiesel
1984 W107 SL300D turbodiesel
1974 W115 /8 300D diesel
trucks
2001 Dodge RAM 3500 4x4 Cummins turbodiesel
boats
1974 Uniflite "Salty Dog" powered by
2x OM617.951 Mercedes Benz 5Cyl turbodiesels
10-24-2009, 08:36 PM
#5
(10-24-2009, 04:35 PM)fir469 I don't fully understand why most people bash waste veggie oil
Its illegal, its stealing from law abiding taxpayers, its harmful to the environment, its harmful to the car and, as you showed in your post, most people do it out of sheer greed.
ForcedInduction
10-24-2009, 08:36 PM
#5
(10-24-2009, 04:35 PM)fir469 I don't fully understand why most people bash waste veggie oil
Its illegal, its stealing from law abiding taxpayers, its harmful to the environment, its harmful to the car and, as you showed in your post, most people do it out of sheer greed.
10-30-2009, 12:39 AM
#6
(10-24-2009, 08:36 PM)ForcedInduction Its illegal, its stealing from law abiding taxpayers, its harmful to the environment, its harmful to the car and, as you showed in your post, most people do it out of sheer greed.
I know what you're getting at when you say stealing -- people running WVO are avoiding paying the transportation taxes that are tacked on to pump gas. But I don't think that makes them greedy and it doesn't seem to be a big motivator (at least to the people I know who are doing it). Those guys are pampering their engines and spend at least as much on filters, injectors and heaters as they would have on dino diesel. I think they're doing it because they believe it's the cleanest way to run a car right now.
From National Geographic:
"Using straight vegetable oil for fuel can lower greenhouse gas emissions by nearly 100 percent, greatly reducing air pollution."
http://environment.nationalgeographic.co...ofile.html
WVO use is and will likely remain a fringe activity because of the supply/demand issue (or at least until we collectively kick our fried food intake into overdrive). As a result, it's probably not worth the bureaucratic overhead to regulate. If it did become a maintstream fuel, I'm sure it would be collected, sold and taxed by the local municipalities. I would be happy to pay the tax.
There are a variety plant sources for oil. some have more residue than others and should be avoided. If you don't filter it well or use the wrong oil type, you will end up with a mess and possibly a ruined engine but it seems to be pretty forgiving in general. filters get clogged, people get stranded but a new filter solves the problem. And frequent use of Diesel Purge can't hurt.
As for environmental impact, I'm not sure what's better but I have read that WVO burns more cleanly than dino diesel because it lacks the more complex molecules and sulfur that come from the petroleum processing. Also, it's not chemically intensive to process like biofuel is. Taking a food byproduct that's at the end of its life cycle and making it do a little more seems like like a winning though small step for the environment.
In any case, the challenges and follies of running WVO are well covered elsewhere. I'd much rather talk about turbos, engine mounts and engine swaps.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
(10-24-2009, 08:36 PM)ForcedInduction Its illegal, its stealing from law abiding taxpayers, its harmful to the environment, its harmful to the car and, as you showed in your post, most people do it out of sheer greed.
I know what you're getting at when you say stealing -- people running WVO are avoiding paying the transportation taxes that are tacked on to pump gas. But I don't think that makes them greedy and it doesn't seem to be a big motivator (at least to the people I know who are doing it). Those guys are pampering their engines and spend at least as much on filters, injectors and heaters as they would have on dino diesel. I think they're doing it because they believe it's the cleanest way to run a car right now.
From National Geographic:
"Using straight vegetable oil for fuel can lower greenhouse gas emissions by nearly 100 percent, greatly reducing air pollution."
http://environment.nationalgeographic.co...ofile.html
WVO use is and will likely remain a fringe activity because of the supply/demand issue (or at least until we collectively kick our fried food intake into overdrive). As a result, it's probably not worth the bureaucratic overhead to regulate. If it did become a maintstream fuel, I'm sure it would be collected, sold and taxed by the local municipalities. I would be happy to pay the tax.
There are a variety plant sources for oil. some have more residue than others and should be avoided. If you don't filter it well or use the wrong oil type, you will end up with a mess and possibly a ruined engine but it seems to be pretty forgiving in general. filters get clogged, people get stranded but a new filter solves the problem. And frequent use of Diesel Purge can't hurt.
As for environmental impact, I'm not sure what's better but I have read that WVO burns more cleanly than dino diesel because it lacks the more complex molecules and sulfur that come from the petroleum processing. Also, it's not chemically intensive to process like biofuel is. Taking a food byproduct that's at the end of its life cycle and making it do a little more seems like like a winning though small step for the environment.
In any case, the challenges and follies of running WVO are well covered elsewhere. I'd much rather talk about turbos, engine mounts and engine swaps.
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
10-30-2009, 01:37 AM
#7
(10-30-2009, 12:39 AM)Syncro_G "Using straight vegetable oil for fuel can lower greenhouse gas emissions by nearly 100 percent, greatly reducing air pollution."Greenhouse gasses are not pollution. That is also a huge blanket statement. A 61x will produce emissions very different from that of a 606 or a Cummins for example.
Quote:Taking a food byproduct that's at the end of its life cycle and making it do a little more seems like like a winning though small step for the environment.The main issue with that is on-road engines aren't designed to burn it cleanly. WVO burns slow and dirty, it contains fat and natural compounds that won't burn cleanly or completely no matter how much you filter it.
ForcedInduction
10-30-2009, 01:37 AM
#7
(10-30-2009, 12:39 AM)Syncro_G "Using straight vegetable oil for fuel can lower greenhouse gas emissions by nearly 100 percent, greatly reducing air pollution."Greenhouse gasses are not pollution. That is also a huge blanket statement. A 61x will produce emissions very different from that of a 606 or a Cummins for example.
Quote:Taking a food byproduct that's at the end of its life cycle and making it do a little more seems like like a winning though small step for the environment.The main issue with that is on-road engines aren't designed to burn it cleanly. WVO burns slow and dirty, it contains fat and natural compounds that won't burn cleanly or completely no matter how much you filter it.
10-30-2009, 04:20 PM
#8
That said, I don't have an issue with WVO that has gone through transesterification and converted to biodiesel meetingASTM D6751 -09 standards.
Has anyone heard of issues with abnormal moisture content with B5+ blends when compared to petroleum diesel fuel? Since nobody has stainless steel components in their pumps just yet - this is a valid concern.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
10-30-2009, 04:20 PM #8I've seen my fair share of WVO horror stories to warrant my complete avoidance of such practices - even on an experimental basis.
That said, I don't have an issue with WVO that has gone through transesterification and converted to biodiesel meetingASTM D6751 -09 standards.
Has anyone heard of issues with abnormal moisture content with B5+ blends when compared to petroleum diesel fuel? Since nobody has stainless steel components in their pumps just yet - this is a valid concern.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
11-02-2009, 01:41 PM
#9
Fuel cost gasoline is around 8$ / gallon
Diesel 7$ / gallon
Just checked in the US you pay 2,5$ (just a quick search on the net hope it is rigth.)
Just to make you understand why we are a litte creativ in europe :-)
I have been running WVO for the last 5 year, no problem. but you have to know what you are doing.
By the way great forum
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
Hi you know this car is running in Europe Denmark
Fuel cost gasoline is around 8$ / gallon
Diesel 7$ / gallon
Just checked in the US you pay 2,5$ (just a quick search on the net hope it is rigth.)
Just to make you understand why we are a litte creativ in europe :-)
I have been running WVO for the last 5 year, no problem. but you have to know what you are doing.
By the way great forum
1996 MB SL320 Now OM606 7 mm pump elements (myna), KKD manifold, HE341VE, 3,5" downpipe, 3" exhaust, big IC, 722.6 gearbox controller, also controls (Turbo VNT, EGT, BOOST, EGP.)
11-02-2009, 03:44 PM
#10
(11-02-2009, 01:41 PM)olefejer Diesel 7$ / gallon
You should have seen The End Of The World panic most people were having when diesel hit $5/gallon in the USA last year. I was happy it cost that much. It meant people would stop driving their porky SUVs and increased the potential for more efficient cars, especially diesels, to become available here. Unfortunately it didn't last, but it did strike a fatal blow to GM's "Hummer" production.
Why should Europe get good cars like the 70mpg VW Lupo or 80mpg Smart ForTwo CDI when "good" mpg in the USA is considered to be anything above 22mpg!? The best (and only) Smart ForTwo available here gets only 35mpg! Thats downright horrible for a car that weighs only 1,600 lbs. A Toyota Yaris weighs 800lbs more, has .6L more engine displacement, an extra cylinder, only a 5-speed manual (instead of a 6-speed), seats 3 more people and it gets the same fuel economy!
ForcedInduction
11-02-2009, 03:44 PM
#10
(11-02-2009, 01:41 PM)olefejer Diesel 7$ / gallon
You should have seen The End Of The World panic most people were having when diesel hit $5/gallon in the USA last year. I was happy it cost that much. It meant people would stop driving their porky SUVs and increased the potential for more efficient cars, especially diesels, to become available here. Unfortunately it didn't last, but it did strike a fatal blow to GM's "Hummer" production.
Why should Europe get good cars like the 70mpg VW Lupo or 80mpg Smart ForTwo CDI when "good" mpg in the USA is considered to be anything above 22mpg!? The best (and only) Smart ForTwo available here gets only 35mpg! Thats downright horrible for a car that weighs only 1,600 lbs. A Toyota Yaris weighs 800lbs more, has .6L more engine displacement, an extra cylinder, only a 5-speed manual (instead of a 6-speed), seats 3 more people and it gets the same fuel economy!
11-02-2009, 04:40 PM
#11
(11-02-2009, 03:44 PM)ForcedInduction Why should Europe get good cars like the 70mpg VW Lupo or 80mpg Smart ForTwo CDI when "good" mpg in the USA is considered to be anything above 22mpg!?
Isn't it nice how the U.S. EPA and CARB have kept all these lovely diesels out of our hands?
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
11-02-2009, 04:40 PM #11(11-02-2009, 03:44 PM)ForcedInduction Why should Europe get good cars like the 70mpg VW Lupo or 80mpg Smart ForTwo CDI when "good" mpg in the USA is considered to be anything above 22mpg!?
Isn't it nice how the U.S. EPA and CARB have kept all these lovely diesels out of our hands?
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
11-04-2009, 12:44 PM
#12
All official studies seem to be done with processed biodiesel (not WVO).
Most of the positive claims are coming from WVO advocates and of that bunch, this one seems to be the most informative: http://www.fusel.com/biodiesel_wiki.html
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
BTW, I thought I'd do some due diligence on the WVO claims but am having a really hard time finding objective studies for or against. So I can't really point to anything that will clearly say it's better or worse than dino diesel.
All official studies seem to be done with processed biodiesel (not WVO).
Most of the positive claims are coming from WVO advocates and of that bunch, this one seems to be the most informative: http://www.fusel.com/biodiesel_wiki.html
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
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