Water/meth injection using fuel injectors
Water/meth injection using fuel injectors
09-17-2015, 01:54 AM
#1
Just had a random idea, I have a spare set of top feed injectors, plus the rail and loom from another car, just wondering if it might be worth creating an injection system attached to the inlet manifold to inject water/methanol on demand. My thought is that each injector would give a good spray pattern as well as a precise amount of atomised water/meth mix and also have the added benefit of having a constant pressure in the fuel rail. When I do start out with my water/meth injection system I will probably just use the usual atomisation nozzle with check valve as is commonly used but thought that using fuel injectors might be a better way to inject the water/meth into the engine in more accurate volumes.
I have found a video which shows an injector tester which has a few basic components to then pulse the injectors for testing - guessing this could be modified to run the injectors for longer:
http://hackaday.com/2011/01/16/20-fuel-injector-tester/
Just wondering what people thought about this idea.
Hi all,
Just had a random idea, I have a spare set of top feed injectors, plus the rail and loom from another car, just wondering if it might be worth creating an injection system attached to the inlet manifold to inject water/methanol on demand. My thought is that each injector would give a good spray pattern as well as a precise amount of atomised water/meth mix and also have the added benefit of having a constant pressure in the fuel rail. When I do start out with my water/meth injection system I will probably just use the usual atomisation nozzle with check valve as is commonly used but thought that using fuel injectors might be a better way to inject the water/meth into the engine in more accurate volumes.
I have found a video which shows an injector tester which has a few basic components to then pulse the injectors for testing - guessing this could be modified to run the injectors for longer:
http://hackaday.com/2011/01/16/20-fuel-injector-tester/
Just wondering what people thought about this idea.
09-17-2015, 02:56 AM
#2
1984 300D with Monark nozzles, GT2256V w/ Synkooppi/Arduino controller, W123 n/a intake, air/water intercooler, precup holes reamed, IP & valve timing = fac + 2 degrees, upgraded leather interior, 140A alternator, electric lift pump, 3" aluminum radiator w/ electric fan, HID headlight conversion, bilsteins, stock MW IP turned up 3 turns on tq module per OM616, 2.65 rear end, ventilated front rotors, dual rear swaybar mod + W116 springs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPSyCMkkk0
kestreltom
09-17-2015, 02:56 AM #2If you already have some sort of controller that can monitor boost and give a variable pulse width in response... then why not? There are flex fuel injectors out there that are all stainless and will handle up to 100 psi and are compatible with ethanol. Water is an unknown as far as the injector goes, but the injectors can be had cheap and you could experiment with adding a soluble oil to the water/meth mix if corrosion became a problem. Interesting idea.
1984 300D with Monark nozzles, GT2256V w/ Synkooppi/Arduino controller, W123 n/a intake, air/water intercooler, precup holes reamed, IP & valve timing = fac + 2 degrees, upgraded leather interior, 140A alternator, electric lift pump, 3" aluminum radiator w/ electric fan, HID headlight conversion, bilsteins, stock MW IP turned up 3 turns on tq module per OM616, 2.65 rear end, ventilated front rotors, dual rear swaybar mod + W116 springs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPSyCMkkk0
09-17-2015, 04:12 AM
#3
We planned to use Bosch K-jet injectors because they are just a calibrated orifice with a wide spray pattern and only need 100psi, which can be done with a normal water injection pump. Also because they are cheap and easy to get hold of and we were going to cut off bits of the Bosch manifold they came from with the mounting bosses on to re-welt onto the IM to mount them.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
Hmm I was gona' say the methanol might eat the injectors.
We planned to use Bosch K-jet injectors because they are just a calibrated orifice with a wide spray pattern and only need 100psi, which can be done with a normal water injection pump. Also because they are cheap and easy to get hold of and we were going to cut off bits of the Bosch manifold they came from with the mounting bosses on to re-welt onto the IM to mount them.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
09-17-2015, 05:09 AM
#4
(09-17-2015, 02:56 AM)kestreltom If you already have some sort of controller that can monitor boost and give a variable pulse width in response... then why not? There are flex fuel injectors out there that are all stainless and will handle up to 100 psi and are compatible with ethanol. Water is an unknown as far as the injector goes, but the injectors can be had cheap and you could experiment with adding a soluble oil to the water/meth mix if corrosion became a problem. Interesting idea.
u write u have a GT22V in your 300d , how is it going ?
mitch sorry to highjack
FD,
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(09-17-2015, 02:56 AM)kestreltom If you already have some sort of controller that can monitor boost and give a variable pulse width in response... then why not? There are flex fuel injectors out there that are all stainless and will handle up to 100 psi and are compatible with ethanol. Water is an unknown as far as the injector goes, but the injectors can be had cheap and you could experiment with adding a soluble oil to the water/meth mix if corrosion became a problem. Interesting idea.
u write u have a GT22V in your 300d , how is it going ?
mitch sorry to highjack
FD,
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09-17-2015, 10:56 AM
#5
(09-17-2015, 05:09 AM)barrote(09-17-2015, 02:56 AM)kestreltom If you already have some sort of controller that can monitor boost and give a variable pulse width in response... then why not? There are flex fuel injectors out there that are all stainless and will handle up to 100 psi and are compatible with ethanol. Water is an unknown as far as the injector goes, but the injectors can be had cheap and you could experiment with adding a soluble oil to the water/meth mix if corrosion became a problem. Interesting idea.
u write u have a GT22V in your 300d , how is it going ?
mitch sorry to highjack
M1tch: Sorry - will keep this brief: The GT2256v conversion is going very well. I will post on it in the future.
You can read more here: http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/
1984 300D with Monark nozzles, GT2256V w/ Synkooppi/Arduino controller, W123 n/a intake, air/water intercooler, precup holes reamed, IP & valve timing = fac + 2 degrees, upgraded leather interior, 140A alternator, electric lift pump, 3" aluminum radiator w/ electric fan, HID headlight conversion, bilsteins, stock MW IP turned up 3 turns on tq module per OM616, 2.65 rear end, ventilated front rotors, dual rear swaybar mod + W116 springs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPSyCMkkk0
kestreltom
09-17-2015, 10:56 AM #5(09-17-2015, 05:09 AM)barrote(09-17-2015, 02:56 AM)kestreltom If you already have some sort of controller that can monitor boost and give a variable pulse width in response... then why not? There are flex fuel injectors out there that are all stainless and will handle up to 100 psi and are compatible with ethanol. Water is an unknown as far as the injector goes, but the injectors can be had cheap and you could experiment with adding a soluble oil to the water/meth mix if corrosion became a problem. Interesting idea.
u write u have a GT22V in your 300d , how is it going ?
mitch sorry to highjack
M1tch: Sorry - will keep this brief: The GT2256v conversion is going very well. I will post on it in the future.
You can read more here: http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/
1984 300D with Monark nozzles, GT2256V w/ Synkooppi/Arduino controller, W123 n/a intake, air/water intercooler, precup holes reamed, IP & valve timing = fac + 2 degrees, upgraded leather interior, 140A alternator, electric lift pump, 3" aluminum radiator w/ electric fan, HID headlight conversion, bilsteins, stock MW IP turned up 3 turns on tq module per OM616, 2.65 rear end, ventilated front rotors, dual rear swaybar mod + W116 springs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPSyCMkkk0
09-17-2015, 05:22 PM
#6
(09-17-2015, 10:56 AM)kestreltomsorry sorry the highjacking, i´m not interested in electronics, i have been running the 23, all mechanichal , just rocks 2.5 Bar from 2000rpm till 6500 . is hooked in a mild modified 605 . a friend has a G we inted to hook a 22 in there. i keep saying is small(09-17-2015, 05:09 AM)barrote(09-17-2015, 02:56 AM)kestreltom If you already have some sort of controller that can monitor boost and give a variable pulse width in response... then why not? There are flex fuel injectors out there that are all stainless and will handle up to 100 psi and are compatible with ethanol. Water is an unknown as far as the injector goes, but the injectors can be had cheap and you could experiment with adding a soluble oil to the water/meth mix if corrosion became a problem. Interesting idea.
u write u have a GT22V in your 300d , how is it going ?
mitch sorry to highjack
M1tch: Sorry - will keep this brief: The GT2256v conversion is going very well. I will post on it in the future.
You can read more here: http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/
.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
(09-17-2015, 10:56 AM)kestreltomsorry sorry the highjacking, i´m not interested in electronics, i have been running the 23, all mechanichal , just rocks 2.5 Bar from 2000rpm till 6500 . is hooked in a mild modified 605 . a friend has a G we inted to hook a 22 in there. i keep saying is small(09-17-2015, 05:09 AM)barrote(09-17-2015, 02:56 AM)kestreltom If you already have some sort of controller that can monitor boost and give a variable pulse width in response... then why not? There are flex fuel injectors out there that are all stainless and will handle up to 100 psi and are compatible with ethanol. Water is an unknown as far as the injector goes, but the injectors can be had cheap and you could experiment with adding a soluble oil to the water/meth mix if corrosion became a problem. Interesting idea.
u write u have a GT22V in your 300d , how is it going ?
mitch sorry to highjack
M1tch: Sorry - will keep this brief: The GT2256v conversion is going very well. I will post on it in the future.
You can read more here: http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/
.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
09-18-2015, 09:23 AM
#7
I went down to the local U-Pull yard and found a pair of injectors on a Ford FFV vehicle (YF1E-G4B) - 10 bucks apiece. I tested them at home and they are functioning perfect. I think am going to try them in a water/methanol setup. I am thinking of going with a 100 psi Shurflo pump like the one in the video linked to above. My vnt turbo controller has a second pwm output that was originally intended to be used on a VW TDI injection pump to control the LDA (fuel enrichment). Maybe I will use this to pulse the two FFV injectors as a function of load, rpm, and boost. The turbo controller is completely customizable and has additional power ouputs, so it should work... The shurflo pump has a check valve built in, and the injectors act like shut-off solenoids when they are not energized... so backflow and leakage shouldn't be a problem.
I like the idea of getting greater efficiency (better mpg) and more hp... plus you get the carbon removed from the head - love it!
This post was last modified: 09-18-2015, 09:55 AM by kestreltom.
kestreltom
09-18-2015, 09:23 AM #7The gt2256v is small, but perfect for the om617a without a superpump - it really improves the low end torque. 2.5 bar boost on a 605 seems excessive unless you are able to turn the fuel way up.
I went down to the local U-Pull yard and found a pair of injectors on a Ford FFV vehicle (YF1E-G4B) - 10 bucks apiece. I tested them at home and they are functioning perfect. I think am going to try them in a water/methanol setup. I am thinking of going with a 100 psi Shurflo pump like the one in the video linked to above. My vnt turbo controller has a second pwm output that was originally intended to be used on a VW TDI injection pump to control the LDA (fuel enrichment). Maybe I will use this to pulse the two FFV injectors as a function of load, rpm, and boost. The turbo controller is completely customizable and has additional power ouputs, so it should work... The shurflo pump has a check valve built in, and the injectors act like shut-off solenoids when they are not energized... so backflow and leakage shouldn't be a problem.
I like the idea of getting greater efficiency (better mpg) and more hp... plus you get the carbon removed from the head - love it!
09-18-2015, 11:50 AM
#8
150cc is ok or shoud i increase a litle bit like 200?
if u want a pump like that for yor 617 pm me.
hughjack , sorry sorry ...
FD,
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The gt2256v is small, but perfect for the om617a without a superpump - it really improves the low end torque. 2.5 bar boost on a 605 seems excessive unless you are able to turn the fuel way up.
150cc is ok or shoud i increase a litle bit like 200?
if u want a pump like that for yor 617 pm me.
hughjack , sorry sorry ...
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
09-18-2015, 02:30 PM
#9
(09-18-2015, 11:50 AM)barrote 150cc is ok or shoud i increase a litle bit like 200?
if u want a pump like that for yor 617 pm me.
The gt2256v is small, but perfect for the om617a without a superpump - it really improves the low end torque. 2.5 bar boost on a 605 seems excessive unless you are able to turn the fuel way up.
hughjack , sorry sorry ...
So you do have a superpump!
OK then... by my figure you will make almost 600 ft/lb torque at 200cc if you can get enough air to burn it. Do you think your transmission can handle that?
btw: I just tested the FFV injectors using water at 60 psi - not good, the spray pattern does not atomize very well. I suppose that one could test them at 125 psi to see if the atomization was better, but it does not look promising...
kestreltom
09-18-2015, 02:30 PM #9(09-18-2015, 11:50 AM)barrote 150cc is ok or shoud i increase a litle bit like 200?
if u want a pump like that for yor 617 pm me.
The gt2256v is small, but perfect for the om617a without a superpump - it really improves the low end torque. 2.5 bar boost on a 605 seems excessive unless you are able to turn the fuel way up.
hughjack , sorry sorry ...
So you do have a superpump!
OK then... by my figure you will make almost 600 ft/lb torque at 200cc if you can get enough air to burn it. Do you think your transmission can handle that?
btw: I just tested the FFV injectors using water at 60 psi - not good, the spray pattern does not atomize very well. I suppose that one could test them at 125 psi to see if the atomization was better, but it does not look promising...
09-18-2015, 02:34 PM
#10
(09-18-2015, 11:50 AM)barrote if u want a pump like that for yor 617 pm me.
hughjack , sorry sorry ...
My transmission is a stock 722.3 - I don't think I can get away with a superpump at this time without breaking something. Sorry but no thanks...
kestreltom
09-18-2015, 02:34 PM #10(09-18-2015, 11:50 AM)barrote if u want a pump like that for yor 617 pm me.
hughjack , sorry sorry ...
My transmission is a stock 722.3 - I don't think I can get away with a superpump at this time without breaking something. Sorry but no thanks...
09-18-2015, 03:17 PM
#11
I am almost thinking you could simply use some of the mechanical injectors - but with a lower pop pressure such as those for petrol engines - will look into possible options.
For my setup however I will be using the large 5.5 litre screenwash tank and simply use the screenwash fluid with has part methanol so can be used (need to get the -20 stuff as it has a higher meth content to stop it freezing).
I am also tempted to look into using a pressure sealed carburetor as this could give a metered amount of water/meth depending on the airflow going through it rather than injecting too much.
This post was last modified: 09-18-2015, 03:25 PM by m1tch.
The original water/meth injection system used in WW2 German aircraft (MW50) used water, meth and 0.5% anti corrosion oil - perhaps putting a small additive into the mixture might allow the use of normal injectors.
I am almost thinking you could simply use some of the mechanical injectors - but with a lower pop pressure such as those for petrol engines - will look into possible options.
For my setup however I will be using the large 5.5 litre screenwash tank and simply use the screenwash fluid with has part methanol so can be used (need to get the -20 stuff as it has a higher meth content to stop it freezing).
I am also tempted to look into using a pressure sealed carburetor as this could give a metered amount of water/meth depending on the airflow going through it rather than injecting too much.
09-19-2015, 12:28 AM
#13
In my own opinion, I wouldn't go to the trouble of building a water injection system and not use the correct nozzles/pump setup.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Water injection nozzles really aren't that expensive and they give good atomization and are corrosion resistant.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't go to the trouble of building a water injection system and not use the correct nozzles/pump setup.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
09-19-2015, 06:01 AM
#14
(09-19-2015, 12:28 AM)MFSuper90 Water injection nozzles really aren't that expensive and they give good atomization and are corrosion resistant.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't go to the trouble of building a water injection system and not use the correct nozzles/pump setup.
After picking up a few alcohol fuel compatible injectors and testing them to 60 psi with water... I have to agree. The poor atomization that I saw with the Ford injectors would negate some of the benefits of water injection, and there would be the possibility of liquid water pooling in the intake system.
You are correct. For under $200.00 us - you could at least start out with pump/nozzle that will give you the proper spray pattern.
This post was last modified: 09-19-2015, 06:01 AM by kestreltom.
kestreltom
09-19-2015, 06:01 AM #14(09-19-2015, 12:28 AM)MFSuper90 Water injection nozzles really aren't that expensive and they give good atomization and are corrosion resistant.
In my own opinion, I wouldn't go to the trouble of building a water injection system and not use the correct nozzles/pump setup.
After picking up a few alcohol fuel compatible injectors and testing them to 60 psi with water... I have to agree. The poor atomization that I saw with the Ford injectors would negate some of the benefits of water injection, and there would be the possibility of liquid water pooling in the intake system.
You are correct. For under $200.00 us - you could at least start out with pump/nozzle that will give you the proper spray pattern.
09-19-2015, 06:19 AM
#15
(09-18-2015, 03:17 PM)m1tch I am also tempted to look into using a pressure sealed carburetor as this could give a metered amount of water/meth depending on the airflow going through it rather than injecting too much.
From what I have been reading, there is an optimal ratio of water/methanol to fuel burn - I think it is around 10-15%... So if you are burning 150cc/min at full throttle like Barrote, then you want to be flowing about 22cc a minute of water/methanol. But apparently there is no stoichiometric requirement like there is with gasoline fuel & air. I think some of the better water/methanol systems have variable output by using a pwm drive on the dc pump... but most systems are on/off and are only for use under full throttle... which is why they can be used with a small tank.
(Going off topic here...) You know, these older Mercedes diesels take a lot of work and $ to get a little improvement. They are relatively cheap to buy in the beginning, but then the hours and money start to flow...
kestreltom
09-19-2015, 06:19 AM #15(09-18-2015, 03:17 PM)m1tch I am also tempted to look into using a pressure sealed carburetor as this could give a metered amount of water/meth depending on the airflow going through it rather than injecting too much.
From what I have been reading, there is an optimal ratio of water/methanol to fuel burn - I think it is around 10-15%... So if you are burning 150cc/min at full throttle like Barrote, then you want to be flowing about 22cc a minute of water/methanol. But apparently there is no stoichiometric requirement like there is with gasoline fuel & air. I think some of the better water/methanol systems have variable output by using a pwm drive on the dc pump... but most systems are on/off and are only for use under full throttle... which is why they can be used with a small tank.
(Going off topic here...) You know, these older Mercedes diesels take a lot of work and $ to get a little improvement. They are relatively cheap to buy in the beginning, but then the hours and money start to flow...
09-19-2015, 08:34 AM
#16
(09-19-2015, 06:19 AM)kestreltom(09-18-2015, 03:17 PM)m1tch I am also tempted to look into using a pressure sealed carburetor as this could give a metered amount of water/meth depending on the airflow going through it rather than injecting too much.
From what I have been reading, there is an optimal ratio of water/methanol to fuel burn - I think it is around 10-15%... So if you are burning 150cc/min at full throttle like Barrote, then you want to be flowing about 22cc a minute of water/methanol. But apparently there is no stoichiometric requirement like there is with gasoline fuel & air. I think some of the better water/methanol systems have variable output by using a pwm drive on the dc pump... but most systems are on/off and are only for use under full throttle... which is why they can be used with a small tank.
(Going off topic here...) You know, these older Mercedes diesels take a lot of work and $ to get a little improvement. They are relatively cheap to buy in the beginning, but then the hours and money start to flow...
I will probably set it to come on at around 8psi, will be simply pumping directly from the washer fluid tank as I will be running that fluid for injection so will still have a fair % of methanol.
With regards to the mention of how you have to spend lots of $$$s to get a small gain, the stock internals are very strong and there is so much headroom for extra power, just need to bolt on a higher flow pump and a larger turbo. Its one of the reasons why I bought my car as there was so much tuning potential on the engine.
(09-19-2015, 06:19 AM)kestreltom(09-18-2015, 03:17 PM)m1tch I am also tempted to look into using a pressure sealed carburetor as this could give a metered amount of water/meth depending on the airflow going through it rather than injecting too much.
From what I have been reading, there is an optimal ratio of water/methanol to fuel burn - I think it is around 10-15%... So if you are burning 150cc/min at full throttle like Barrote, then you want to be flowing about 22cc a minute of water/methanol. But apparently there is no stoichiometric requirement like there is with gasoline fuel & air. I think some of the better water/methanol systems have variable output by using a pwm drive on the dc pump... but most systems are on/off and are only for use under full throttle... which is why they can be used with a small tank.
(Going off topic here...) You know, these older Mercedes diesels take a lot of work and $ to get a little improvement. They are relatively cheap to buy in the beginning, but then the hours and money start to flow...
I will probably set it to come on at around 8psi, will be simply pumping directly from the washer fluid tank as I will be running that fluid for injection so will still have a fair % of methanol.
With regards to the mention of how you have to spend lots of $$$s to get a small gain, the stock internals are very strong and there is so much headroom for extra power, just need to bolt on a higher flow pump and a larger turbo. Its one of the reasons why I bought my car as there was so much tuning potential on the engine.
09-19-2015, 11:21 AM
#17
(09-19-2015, 08:34 AM)m1tch With regards to the mention of how you have to spend lots of $$$s to get a small gain, the stock internals are very strong and there is so much headroom for extra power, just need to bolt on a higher flow pump and a larger turbo. Its one of the reasons why I bought my car as there was so much tuning potential on the engine.
Which car do you have?
Why don't you edit your signature to describe it?
kestreltom
09-19-2015, 11:21 AM #17(09-19-2015, 08:34 AM)m1tch With regards to the mention of how you have to spend lots of $$$s to get a small gain, the stock internals are very strong and there is so much headroom for extra power, just need to bolt on a higher flow pump and a larger turbo. Its one of the reasons why I bought my car as there was so much tuning potential on the engine.
Which car do you have?
Why don't you edit your signature to describe it?
09-19-2015, 03:42 PM
#18
(09-19-2015, 11:21 AM)kestreltom(09-19-2015, 08:34 AM)m1tch With regards to the mention of how you have to spend lots of $$$s to get a small gain, the stock internals are very strong and there is so much headroom for extra power, just need to bolt on a higher flow pump and a larger turbo. Its one of the reasons why I bought my car as there was so much tuning potential on the engine.
Which car do you have?
Why don't you edit your signature to describe it?
Its a W210 E300 Turbodiesel wagon eg its the OM606.962 with a 722.6 transmission.
(09-19-2015, 11:21 AM)kestreltom(09-19-2015, 08:34 AM)m1tch With regards to the mention of how you have to spend lots of $$$s to get a small gain, the stock internals are very strong and there is so much headroom for extra power, just need to bolt on a higher flow pump and a larger turbo. Its one of the reasons why I bought my car as there was so much tuning potential on the engine.
Which car do you have?
Why don't you edit your signature to describe it?
Its a W210 E300 Turbodiesel wagon eg its the OM606.962 with a 722.6 transmission.
09-20-2015, 12:11 AM
#19
(09-19-2015, 03:42 PM)m1tch Its a W210 E300 Turbodiesel wagon eg its the OM606.962 with a 722.6 transmission.
Woah! Nice...
Yep - your are right - you can do a lot with that engine & tranny.
A superpump, turbo, and a few suspension upgrades and you could be driving a very interesting car...
Unless there is more that you haven't told us about it
This post was last modified: 09-20-2015, 12:13 AM by kestreltom.
kestreltom
09-20-2015, 12:11 AM #19(09-19-2015, 03:42 PM)m1tch Its a W210 E300 Turbodiesel wagon eg its the OM606.962 with a 722.6 transmission.
Woah! Nice...
Yep - your are right - you can do a lot with that engine & tranny.
A superpump, turbo, and a few suspension upgrades and you could be driving a very interesting car...
Unless there is more that you haven't told us about it
09-20-2015, 05:12 AM
#20
(09-20-2015, 12:11 AM)kestreltom(09-19-2015, 03:42 PM)m1tch Its a W210 E300 Turbodiesel wagon eg its the OM606.962 with a 722.6 transmission.
Woah! Nice...
Yep - your are right - you can do a lot with that engine & tranny.
A superpump, turbo, and a few suspension upgrades and you could be driving a very interesting car...
Unless there is more that you haven't told us about it
I have a thread over on Peach parts - not going to retype it on here unfortunately - was already about a month into the project before my account on here was activated.
The car will be a sleeper, will be keeping the stock suspension (and the difficult to mod SLS rear suspension) - GT45, 8mm pump elements in the stock EDC pump (not mechanically although I do have a spare OM603 pump), gearbox controller and 3" exhaust cutout valve. Will be used for drag racing, have run it 100% stock and it ran a 17.6 (sloooow). Since then I have removed around 200kg from the car plus a few tweaks to the inlet and exhaust, will be maxxing out the stock turbo first, then will upgrade in stages. One of the mods would be the water/meth injection as it will keep the EGTs down as well as proving slightly more fuel without changing the stock pump.
Thread is here if you are interested:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/rest...eeper.html
This post was last modified: 09-20-2015, 05:21 AM by m1tch.
(09-20-2015, 12:11 AM)kestreltom(09-19-2015, 03:42 PM)m1tch Its a W210 E300 Turbodiesel wagon eg its the OM606.962 with a 722.6 transmission.
Woah! Nice...
Yep - your are right - you can do a lot with that engine & tranny.
A superpump, turbo, and a few suspension upgrades and you could be driving a very interesting car...
Unless there is more that you haven't told us about it
I have a thread over on Peach parts - not going to retype it on here unfortunately - was already about a month into the project before my account on here was activated.
The car will be a sleeper, will be keeping the stock suspension (and the difficult to mod SLS rear suspension) - GT45, 8mm pump elements in the stock EDC pump (not mechanically although I do have a spare OM603 pump), gearbox controller and 3" exhaust cutout valve. Will be used for drag racing, have run it 100% stock and it ran a 17.6 (sloooow). Since then I have removed around 200kg from the car plus a few tweaks to the inlet and exhaust, will be maxxing out the stock turbo first, then will upgrade in stages. One of the mods would be the water/meth injection as it will keep the EGTs down as well as proving slightly more fuel without changing the stock pump.
Thread is here if you are interested:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/rest...eeper.html
09-20-2015, 08:48 AM
#21
(09-20-2015, 05:12 AM)m1tch Thread is here if you are interested:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/rest...eeper.html
M1tch
Nice thread... although the Peachparts crowd is a bit on the stodgy/conservative side, so maybe you will get more appreciation over here
Verrry interesting car! I have been lusting over the W210 for a while now. Too bad we don't get the estate version over here... I sure could use one with the sls rear.
kestreltom
09-20-2015, 08:48 AM #21(09-20-2015, 05:12 AM)m1tch Thread is here if you are interested:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/rest...eeper.html
M1tch
Nice thread... although the Peachparts crowd is a bit on the stodgy/conservative side, so maybe you will get more appreciation over here
Verrry interesting car! I have been lusting over the W210 for a while now. Too bad we don't get the estate version over here... I sure could use one with the sls rear.
09-20-2015, 02:02 PM
#22
(09-20-2015, 08:48 AM)kestreltom(09-20-2015, 05:12 AM)m1tch Thread is here if you are interested:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/rest...eeper.html
M1tch
Nice thread... although the Peachparts crowd is a bit on the stodgy/conservative side, so maybe you will get more appreciation over here
I have been lusting over the W210 for a while now. Too bad we don't get the estate version over here... I sure could use one with the sls rear.
Yeah, the Peachparts forum is good for any stock questions and the overall running of the engine - as most of my car will be stock I have found it to be really helpful servicing and getting everything up and running. The tuning side over and above stock setup I will be looking to this forum as its usually been done already - although I will be using the stock EDC pump instead of a mechanical pump. I am also interested to see what I can get out of a stock pump which might also be interesting for others aswell.
The SLS rear is interesting, however not ideal for my project as I can't easily swap over the rear suspension due to different top mounts - it means that I am running with quite a heavy setup.
I have found that the stock car is 1,655kg, the saloon is 1,555kg and I have removed around about 200kg so far although there is more that I could remove.
This post was last modified: 09-20-2015, 02:06 PM by m1tch.
(09-20-2015, 08:48 AM)kestreltom(09-20-2015, 05:12 AM)m1tch Thread is here if you are interested:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/rest...eeper.html
M1tch
Nice thread... although the Peachparts crowd is a bit on the stodgy/conservative side, so maybe you will get more appreciation over here
I have been lusting over the W210 for a while now. Too bad we don't get the estate version over here... I sure could use one with the sls rear.
Yeah, the Peachparts forum is good for any stock questions and the overall running of the engine - as most of my car will be stock I have found it to be really helpful servicing and getting everything up and running. The tuning side over and above stock setup I will be looking to this forum as its usually been done already - although I will be using the stock EDC pump instead of a mechanical pump. I am also interested to see what I can get out of a stock pump which might also be interesting for others aswell.
The SLS rear is interesting, however not ideal for my project as I can't easily swap over the rear suspension due to different top mounts - it means that I am running with quite a heavy setup.
I have found that the stock car is 1,655kg, the saloon is 1,555kg and I have removed around about 200kg so far although there is more that I could remove.
09-20-2015, 03:08 PM
#23
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
On our pulling tractors the way we set out water injection amount is by egt, we keep them around 13-1500F while going down the track. If it gets hotter than that we put a little bit larger nozzle in it
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
09-21-2015, 01:47 AM
#24
(09-20-2015, 03:08 PM)MFSuper90 On our pulling tractors the way we set out water injection amount is by egt, we keep them around 13-1500F while going down the track. If it gets hotter than that we put a little bit larger nozzle in it
Do you run a single nozzle or do you run multiples?
09-21-2015, 04:08 AM
#25
(09-20-2015, 02:02 PM)m1tch The SLS rear is interesting, however not ideal for my project as I can't easily swap over the rear suspension due to different top mounts - it means that I am running with quite a heavy setup.
I have found that the stock car is 1,655kg, the saloon is 1,555kg and I have removed around about 200kg so far although there is more that I could remove.
In looked up my W123 turbodiesel chassis specs, and it is 1,625 kg. You are really on the warpath there...
I am also back to checking ebay for prices on W201s... they are getting very affordable.
The guy designed the Arduino software for my turbo controller also designed software to control an edc pump. There have been several guys asking about whether it can be used with a Mercedes edc pump and apparently it can, but the rack position sensor is a little different and someone needs to implement an hdk type circuit that can read it. If I decide to get a W201 I would do it... just don't have the pump here on a bench at this time.
Olefejer has come up with a nifty controller for the 722.6 trans that includes a vnt turbo control module. Have you looked at it? I have a feeling that he is also working on an edc pump controller.
This post was last modified: 09-21-2015, 04:16 AM by kestreltom.
kestreltom
09-21-2015, 04:08 AM #25(09-20-2015, 02:02 PM)m1tch The SLS rear is interesting, however not ideal for my project as I can't easily swap over the rear suspension due to different top mounts - it means that I am running with quite a heavy setup.
I have found that the stock car is 1,655kg, the saloon is 1,555kg and I have removed around about 200kg so far although there is more that I could remove.
In looked up my W123 turbodiesel chassis specs, and it is 1,625 kg. You are really on the warpath there...
I am also back to checking ebay for prices on W201s... they are getting very affordable.
The guy designed the Arduino software for my turbo controller also designed software to control an edc pump. There have been several guys asking about whether it can be used with a Mercedes edc pump and apparently it can, but the rack position sensor is a little different and someone needs to implement an hdk type circuit that can read it. If I decide to get a W201 I would do it... just don't have the pump here on a bench at this time.
Olefejer has come up with a nifty controller for the 722.6 trans that includes a vnt turbo control module. Have you looked at it? I have a feeling that he is also working on an edc pump controller.
09-21-2015, 08:36 AM
#26
(09-21-2015, 04:08 AM)kestreltom(09-20-2015, 02:02 PM)m1tch The SLS rear is interesting, however not ideal for my project as I can't easily swap over the rear suspension due to different top mounts - it means that I am running with quite a heavy setup.
I have found that the stock car is 1,655kg, the saloon is 1,555kg and I have removed around about 200kg so far although there is more that I could remove.
In looked up my W123 turbodiesel chassis specs, and it is 1,625 kg. You are really on the warpath there...
I am also back to checking ebay for prices on W201s... they are getting very affordable.
The guy designed the Arduino software for my turbo controller also designed software to control an edc pump. There have been several guys asking about whether it can be used with a Mercedes edc pump and apparently it can, but the rack position sensor is a little different and someone needs to implement an hdk type circuit that can read it. If I decide to get a W201 I would do it... just don't have the pump here on a bench at this time.
Olefejer has come up with a nifty controller for the 722.6 trans that includes a vnt turbo control module. Have you looked at it? I have a feeling that he is also working on an edc pump controller.
The 200kg is basically just stuff you can easily unbolt from the stock car, eg the rear seats which are held in with 2 bolts, plus things such as the spare wheel which is a full sized steel wheel in my car. I can basically return my car to stock within half an hour if needed, most things just unbolt plus I have fully manual cloth seats so its only 4 bolts to remove the passenger seat etc.
I will check out the Arduino system although I am tempted to see if I can add in a piggyback ECU instead which would adjust the values going to the pump and perhaps boost them slightly - eg the stock ECU asks for 10% rack travel which then gets to changed to 12% rack travel. I know that Dieselmeken has also done some work with the EDC pump and you can adjust the rack sensor slightly to increase the overall rack travel. To be honest, although the EDC probably can't give the same ease of fueling as a manual pump with regards to rack travel, I am sure you could make up the difference by adding slightly more fueling with the rack travel the pump has.
I have seen Olefejer has that 722.6 controller which is something I will be getting at some point as its exactly what I am after to make the box slightly more responsive.
(09-21-2015, 04:08 AM)kestreltom(09-20-2015, 02:02 PM)m1tch The SLS rear is interesting, however not ideal for my project as I can't easily swap over the rear suspension due to different top mounts - it means that I am running with quite a heavy setup.
I have found that the stock car is 1,655kg, the saloon is 1,555kg and I have removed around about 200kg so far although there is more that I could remove.
In looked up my W123 turbodiesel chassis specs, and it is 1,625 kg. You are really on the warpath there...
I am also back to checking ebay for prices on W201s... they are getting very affordable.
The guy designed the Arduino software for my turbo controller also designed software to control an edc pump. There have been several guys asking about whether it can be used with a Mercedes edc pump and apparently it can, but the rack position sensor is a little different and someone needs to implement an hdk type circuit that can read it. If I decide to get a W201 I would do it... just don't have the pump here on a bench at this time.
Olefejer has come up with a nifty controller for the 722.6 trans that includes a vnt turbo control module. Have you looked at it? I have a feeling that he is also working on an edc pump controller.
The 200kg is basically just stuff you can easily unbolt from the stock car, eg the rear seats which are held in with 2 bolts, plus things such as the spare wheel which is a full sized steel wheel in my car. I can basically return my car to stock within half an hour if needed, most things just unbolt plus I have fully manual cloth seats so its only 4 bolts to remove the passenger seat etc.
I will check out the Arduino system although I am tempted to see if I can add in a piggyback ECU instead which would adjust the values going to the pump and perhaps boost them slightly - eg the stock ECU asks for 10% rack travel which then gets to changed to 12% rack travel. I know that Dieselmeken has also done some work with the EDC pump and you can adjust the rack sensor slightly to increase the overall rack travel. To be honest, although the EDC probably can't give the same ease of fueling as a manual pump with regards to rack travel, I am sure you could make up the difference by adding slightly more fueling with the rack travel the pump has.
I have seen Olefejer has that 722.6 controller which is something I will be getting at some point as its exactly what I am after to make the box slightly more responsive.
09-21-2015, 10:25 AM
#27
(09-21-2015, 08:36 AM)m1tch ...To be honest, although the EDC probably can't give the same ease of fueling as a manual pump with regards to rack travel, I am sure you could make up the difference by adding slightly more fueling with the rack travel the pump has.
Plus I think you mentioned getting Goran to install bigger elements at some point... that will be fun
kestreltom
09-21-2015, 10:25 AM #27(09-21-2015, 08:36 AM)m1tch ...To be honest, although the EDC probably can't give the same ease of fueling as a manual pump with regards to rack travel, I am sure you could make up the difference by adding slightly more fueling with the rack travel the pump has.
Plus I think you mentioned getting Goran to install bigger elements at some point... that will be fun
09-21-2015, 10:41 AM
#28
(09-21-2015, 01:47 AM)m1tch(09-20-2015, 03:08 PM)MFSuper90 On our pulling tractors the way we set out water injection amount is by egt, we keep them around 13-1500F while going down the track. If it gets hotter than that we put a little bit larger nozzle in it
Do you run a single nozzle or do you run multiples?
We run two nozzles on a 354 Perkins
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(09-21-2015, 01:47 AM)m1tch(09-20-2015, 03:08 PM)MFSuper90 On our pulling tractors the way we set out water injection amount is by egt, we keep them around 13-1500F while going down the track. If it gets hotter than that we put a little bit larger nozzle in it
Do you run a single nozzle or do you run multiples?
We run two nozzles on a 354 Perkins
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
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