Changing overflow valve to adjustable FPR?
Changing overflow valve to adjustable FPR?
The thought just struck me, you can get performance overflow valves for the side of the pump which regulate the internal pressure of the pump, a slight increase of the fuel pressure would mean that the elements fill quicker etc. The overflow valve uses a ball and spring inside the banjo bolt to regulate the pressure within the pump before returning fuel to the tank, the spring can be upgraded to increase the pressure but only if it is rebuildable and can't be changed without taking it all out again.
My thought is that you could simply remove the overflow valve and replace it with a standard banjo bolt and then simply attach an adjustable fuel pressure to the return line to allow for an adjustable internal pump pressure?
Hi all,
The thought just struck me, you can get performance overflow valves for the side of the pump which regulate the internal pressure of the pump, a slight increase of the fuel pressure would mean that the elements fill quicker etc. The overflow valve uses a ball and spring inside the banjo bolt to regulate the pressure within the pump before returning fuel to the tank, the spring can be upgraded to increase the pressure but only if it is rebuildable and can't be changed without taking it all out again.
My thought is that you could simply remove the overflow valve and replace it with a standard banjo bolt and then simply attach an adjustable fuel pressure to the return line to allow for an adjustable internal pump pressure?
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
Yeah that's just the other way round of doing it, IE: Using the overflow control valve as a restricted orifice which the FPR (fitted before the IP) adjusts inflow pressure against.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(10-06-2015, 04:37 AM)Hario Yeah that's just the other way round of doing it, IE: Using the overflow control valve as a restricted orifice which the FPR (fitted before the IP) adjusts inflow pressure against.
The problem I see with this is that the fuel has 2 paths it can choose. It can go threw the injection pump or it can just go through the internal pathways in the fuel filter. That's why I just don't buy the the performance overflow valves. I pinched off my fuel return line from injection pump, the one with the overflow valve and noticed no difference. Fuel just goes the other path. If you actually want to increase pressure in injection pump you have to put the restriction after the fuel filter on the line going back to the tank. The only problem with this I see is now your injector return lines are under pressure. If you want my honest opinion those performance overflow valves do the same as when I pinched off the line with the valve. So nothing.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
(10-06-2015, 04:37 AM)Hario Yeah that's just the other way round of doing it, IE: Using the overflow control valve as a restricted orifice which the FPR (fitted before the IP) adjusts inflow pressure against.
The problem I see with this is that the fuel has 2 paths it can choose. It can go threw the injection pump or it can just go through the internal pathways in the fuel filter. That's why I just don't buy the the performance overflow valves. I pinched off my fuel return line from injection pump, the one with the overflow valve and noticed no difference. Fuel just goes the other path. If you actually want to increase pressure in injection pump you have to put the restriction after the fuel filter on the line going back to the tank. The only problem with this I see is now your injector return lines are under pressure. If you want my honest opinion those performance overflow valves do the same as when I pinched off the line with the valve. So nothing.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
I will have a look at the different fueling options out there, my project is looking to get the most out of the stock setup so seeing what I can do to improve performance with the stock pump and 6mm elements - might look to put an inline pump at the tank end and an FPR on the return line to ensure a constant feed of fuel at a pressure of my choosing.
Thanks for the input, the FPR would be put on the return line to the tank but will need to check the leak off lines as its not something I had thought would be under pressure - I guess as the pressures in the feed and return lines are fairly low (compared to normal 40-60psi petrol engines) I guess it could leak somewhere else.
I will have a look at the different fueling options out there, my project is looking to get the most out of the stock setup so seeing what I can do to improve performance with the stock pump and 6mm elements - might look to put an inline pump at the tank end and an FPR on the return line to ensure a constant feed of fuel at a pressure of my choosing.
I have done/seen/tried in the bench several situations where i have unsincronized fuel output, and that situation only happened once and it was in a M pump for a 617 engine with 7.5mm element and the fenomena only happened at 2300 Pump RPM, cylinder one was injecting 140 and the others at 150, at 2400rpm Cyl one 120 and the others 140.
after some talk and some trials found out that for that much fuel output a min press of 1BAR was nedded at pump inlet, with stock valve or modded valve the problem was the same . inlet pressure 1bar was nedded.
in a 6mm tiny mm element ,the fenomena does not apear.
that thing is bullshit. but i´m not the owner of the world, if one wants to install a thing like that i sell them too, in many kinds and flavours.
max i have is 5bar check valve that fits the M threads.
For those wich dont belive it cause is a false question, plug the return line will show dificulties when loosing pumping. the air must exist the feed galery, same for the fuel filter, there must be a means of bleading air bubles, and that is the small orifice in the return.
hope this mystery is solved,
M pumps have nothing to do with rotary stile distribuitors where the transfer pressure plays a very important role in the total output.
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
hehe, snake fat boys , there are no performance gain in using a check valve diferent from another,.......
I have done/seen/tried in the bench several situations where i have unsincronized fuel output, and that situation only happened once and it was in a M pump for a 617 engine with 7.5mm element and the fenomena only happened at 2300 Pump RPM, cylinder one was injecting 140 and the others at 150, at 2400rpm Cyl one 120 and the others 140.
after some talk and some trials found out that for that much fuel output a min press of 1BAR was nedded at pump inlet, with stock valve or modded valve the problem was the same . inlet pressure 1bar was nedded.
in a 6mm tiny mm element ,the fenomena does not apear.
that thing is bullshit. but i´m not the owner of the world, if one wants to install a thing like that i sell them too, in many kinds and flavours.
max i have is 5bar check valve that fits the M threads.
For those wich dont belive it cause is a false question, plug the return line will show dificulties when loosing pumping. the air must exist the feed galery, same for the fuel filter, there must be a means of bleading air bubles, and that is the small orifice in the return.
hope this mystery is solved,
M pumps have nothing to do with rotary stile distribuitors where the transfer pressure plays a very important role in the total output.
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
(10-06-2015, 06:57 AM)TurboTim(10-06-2015, 04:37 AM)Hario Yeah that's just the other way round of doing it, IE: Using the overflow control valve as a restricted orifice which the FPR (fitted before the IP) adjusts inflow pressure against.
The problem I see with this is that the fuel has 2 paths it can choose. It can go threw the injection pump or it can just go through the internal pathways in the fuel filter. That's why I just don't buy the the performance overflow valves. I pinched off my fuel return line from injection pump, the one with the overflow valve and noticed no difference. Fuel just goes the other path. If you actually want to increase pressure in injection pump you have to put the restriction after the fuel filter on the line going back to the tank. The only problem with this I see is now your injector return lines are under pressure. If you want my honest opinion those performance overflow valves do the same as when I pinched off the line with the valve. So nothing.
Good point regarding injector leak off lines so these should tee into the return line after the FPR.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(10-06-2015, 06:57 AM)TurboTim(10-06-2015, 04:37 AM)Hario Yeah that's just the other way round of doing it, IE: Using the overflow control valve as a restricted orifice which the FPR (fitted before the IP) adjusts inflow pressure against.
The problem I see with this is that the fuel has 2 paths it can choose. It can go threw the injection pump or it can just go through the internal pathways in the fuel filter. That's why I just don't buy the the performance overflow valves. I pinched off my fuel return line from injection pump, the one with the overflow valve and noticed no difference. Fuel just goes the other path. If you actually want to increase pressure in injection pump you have to put the restriction after the fuel filter on the line going back to the tank. The only problem with this I see is now your injector return lines are under pressure. If you want my honest opinion those performance overflow valves do the same as when I pinched off the line with the valve. So nothing.
Good point regarding injector leak off lines so these should tee into the return line after the FPR.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
http://www.torkteknology.com/products/TO...FV020.html
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette" - Brabus wheels and almost all the options a w210 could have
2007 Chevy 2500HD CCSB Duramax with about 400-500 rwhp depending on the tune I use
1983 300D Silver Exterior/Black inside - Sold and will be missed, may we never meet in a PnP.
I wonder if one of these would fit our IP's
http://www.torkteknology.com/products/TO...FV020.html
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette" - Brabus wheels and almost all the options a w210 could have
2007 Chevy 2500HD CCSB Duramax with about 400-500 rwhp depending on the tune I use
1983 300D Silver Exterior/Black inside - Sold and will be missed, may we never meet in a PnP.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
Again if you understood the system you wouldnt care.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
Edit: Solder would work right?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
So what's the best way to block off that little hole in the filter head?
Edit: Solder would work right?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
(10-10-2015, 04:29 PM)capflya I wonder if one of these would fit our IP's
http://www.torkteknology.com/products/TO...FV020.html
I was looking at one of those but figured an FPR route might be better although as stated already on this thread it doesn't seem to make a difference unless running massive elements at high RPM.
(10-10-2015, 04:29 PM)capflya I wonder if one of these would fit our IP's
http://www.torkteknology.com/products/TO...FV020.html
I was looking at one of those but figured an FPR route might be better although as stated already on this thread it doesn't seem to make a difference unless running massive elements at high RPM.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
Modifying the fuel filter is really probably the best idea to get rid of that passage. Maybe I will look into that today. That is a great idea.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
(10-10-2015, 04:29 PM)capflya I wonder if one of these would fit our IP's
http://www.torkteknology.com/products/TO...FV020.html
Found out they won't fit anyways.. according to the company these are 14mm thread and our pumps use 12mm thread on the vave.
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette" - Brabus wheels and almost all the options a w210 could have
2007 Chevy 2500HD CCSB Duramax with about 400-500 rwhp depending on the tune I use
1983 300D Silver Exterior/Black inside - Sold and will be missed, may we never meet in a PnP.
(10-10-2015, 04:29 PM)capflya I wonder if one of these would fit our IP's
http://www.torkteknology.com/products/TO...FV020.html
Found out they won't fit anyways.. according to the company these are 14mm thread and our pumps use 12mm thread on the vave.
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette" - Brabus wheels and almost all the options a w210 could have
2007 Chevy 2500HD CCSB Duramax with about 400-500 rwhp depending on the tune I use
1983 300D Silver Exterior/Black inside - Sold and will be missed, may we never meet in a PnP.
7 Guest(s)
7 Guest(s)