Manual gearbox options
Manual gearbox options
I've searched and read on here that the 6 speed merc manuals have some weaknesses. What about the 5 speeds? It's easy to get a 602 origin 5 speed from a sprinter here, like a 711605. However my favourite option at the moment is a Ssangyong Kyron 5 speed from a OM617 270 CDI, including flywheel and clutch. But I can't find any details of what that 'box is, it looks like a nice chunky box with integral bell housing, but I can't find number that means anything. Anyone know about the later Ssangyong boxes?
plasticbadger
01-07-2016, 03:28 PM #1Hi all, I'm a long term reader, first time poster. I'm planning a 4x4 OM605 project that will use a manual gearbox and a divorced LT230 transfer box. I'm looking for a good strong and compact manual box that is a relatively budget bolt on solution. The engine will be tuned to 250-300hp.
I've searched and read on here that the 6 speed merc manuals have some weaknesses. What about the 5 speeds? It's easy to get a 602 origin 5 speed from a sprinter here, like a 711605. However my favourite option at the moment is a Ssangyong Kyron 5 speed from a OM617 270 CDI, including flywheel and clutch. But I can't find any details of what that 'box is, it looks like a nice chunky box with integral bell housing, but I can't find number that means anything. Anyone know about the later Ssangyong boxes?
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
01-12-2016, 08:01 PM #2Any trans that bolts on to an OM617 will not bolt up to an OM60x series engine. Do a search for a guy whos screen name is 5spd617. He did modify a 60x series trans to fit his 617, opposite of what you're trying to do. It wasnt elegant, but was a bit easier than anyone expected. The opposite path my prove better/easier. It appears the alignment pins match up and trans input shafts are in same planes. One thing to consider is the spline count and shaft size are different so clutches will be another challenge to do right. GM (interestingly) and Mercedes shared spline counts/diameters for both of these transmissions. The earlier 617 style has fewer splines but slightly larger shaft (IIRC) and is interchangeable with GM style of that era. The later had more splines and again is interchangeable with GM of its era.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Think 617 was a typo, searching 270 CDI comes up with OM612. I know nothing about these, but the starter seems to be on the same side as the 60x...
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
plasticbadger
01-13-2016, 01:25 PM #4Hi guys, thanks for the replies. I'm sorry, I definately meant a OM612, the later 2.7 common rail 5 cylinder. The bell housing looks to be the same as the 605, with the same bolt layout, same starter position etc. Refining down, this box or a 711.620 from a OM602 sprinter are looking the most available options, so the question is are they any good?
How heavy is the truck the engine is going in?
That CDI engine makes about 160 HP & 280 lb-ft and the sprinters are fairly heavy (~6000lbs). I'd wager a box in decent shape would hold up to most abuse. The biggest killers of manual transmissions offroad are poor driving and unrealistic expectations. The local vans and shuttles I've seen around here have drivers that bang through the gears and most of the ones I've talked to said they are pretty reliable...haven't heard one of them complain about the trans in any case.
If you can verify the Ssangyong box is the same as what was used behind that engine in the sprinter, I'd bet it would do nicely for your needs.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
01-13-2016, 11:22 PM #5OK, totally different beast (completely missed that whole part that ended with CDI)...yes that engine is based on the OM60x series blocks and thus bell pattern.
How heavy is the truck the engine is going in?
That CDI engine makes about 160 HP & 280 lb-ft and the sprinters are fairly heavy (~6000lbs). I'd wager a box in decent shape would hold up to most abuse. The biggest killers of manual transmissions offroad are poor driving and unrealistic expectations. The local vans and shuttles I've seen around here have drivers that bang through the gears and most of the ones I've talked to said they are pretty reliable...haven't heard one of them complain about the trans in any case.
If you can verify the Ssangyong box is the same as what was used behind that engine in the sprinter, I'd bet it would do nicely for your needs.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
The current truck is a landrover defender based machine with a tuned landrover 200tdi (probably 140hp approx), heavy at 2000 kg, same tyres/gearing and the old landrover LT77 gearbox lasts about season!
plasticbadger
01-18-2016, 03:18 PM #6The project truck is a landrover chassis based race truck, 'tomcat' style. It won't be light weight, realistically 1600-1900 kg. It will have low gearing and 37" tall soft compound tyres, so the 'box will be getting some abuse.
The current truck is a landrover defender based machine with a tuned landrover 200tdi (probably 140hp approx), heavy at 2000 kg, same tyres/gearing and the old landrover LT77 gearbox lasts about season!
(01-18-2016, 03:18 PM)plasticbadger The project truck is a landrover chassis based race truck, 'tomcat' style. It won't be light weight, realistically 1600-1900 kg. It will have low gearing and 37" tall soft compound tyres, so the 'box will be getting some abuse.
The current truck is a landrover defender based machine with a tuned landrover 200tdi (probably 140hp approx), heavy at 2000 kg, same tyres/gearing and the old landrover LT77 gearbox lasts about season!
Ask "baldur" about Ssangyong 4x4 - I think he's got one.
I'm interested in the transmission specs too!
(01-18-2016, 03:18 PM)plasticbadger The project truck is a landrover chassis based race truck, 'tomcat' style. It won't be light weight, realistically 1600-1900 kg. It will have low gearing and 37" tall soft compound tyres, so the 'box will be getting some abuse.
The current truck is a landrover defender based machine with a tuned landrover 200tdi (probably 140hp approx), heavy at 2000 kg, same tyres/gearing and the old landrover LT77 gearbox lasts about season!
Ask "baldur" about Ssangyong 4x4 - I think he's got one.
I'm interested in the transmission specs too!
(01-18-2016, 05:39 PM)CRD4x4(01-18-2016, 03:18 PM)plasticbadger The project truck is a landrover chassis based race truck, 'tomcat' style. It won't be light weight, realistically 1600-1900 kg. It will have low gearing and 37" tall soft compound tyres, so the 'box will be getting some abuse.
The current truck is a landrover defender based machine with a tuned landrover 200tdi (probably 140hp approx), heavy at 2000 kg, same tyres/gearing and the old landrover LT77 gearbox lasts about season!
Ask "baldur" about Ssangyong 4x4 - I think he's got one.
I'm interested in the transmission specs too!
Just looking at a ssangyong with om605 in it (i think, didn't spend much time just a quick glance - sadly pump been taken) in the scrapyard today. axles and gearbox still there. Looked agricultural ;-)
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W639 Vito OM606 + 722.6 STD - in progress
Current progress: engine in, gearbox in, bumper bar modified to accept w210 radiator, audi electric fan, very tight squeeze, interior stripped out ready for new seats (w211) and custom dash with w211 clocks controlled by arduino with split fuel gauge covering main tank and auxiliary for Veg Oil ...
- DSL1 ECU for Electronic OM606 Pump (currently fitting wiring)
Next; 722.6 Controller, HX40 with homemade manifold, Air-to-water intercooler, homemade exhaust, MOT.... One day!
(01-18-2016, 05:39 PM)CRD4x4(01-18-2016, 03:18 PM)plasticbadger The project truck is a landrover chassis based race truck, 'tomcat' style. It won't be light weight, realistically 1600-1900 kg. It will have low gearing and 37" tall soft compound tyres, so the 'box will be getting some abuse.
The current truck is a landrover defender based machine with a tuned landrover 200tdi (probably 140hp approx), heavy at 2000 kg, same tyres/gearing and the old landrover LT77 gearbox lasts about season!
Ask "baldur" about Ssangyong 4x4 - I think he's got one.
I'm interested in the transmission specs too!
Just looking at a ssangyong with om605 in it (i think, didn't spend much time just a quick glance - sadly pump been taken) in the scrapyard today. axles and gearbox still there. Looked agricultural ;-)
---
W639 Vito OM606 + 722.6 STD - in progress
Current progress: engine in, gearbox in, bumper bar modified to accept w210 radiator, audi electric fan, very tight squeeze, interior stripped out ready for new seats (w211) and custom dash with w211 clocks controlled by arduino with split fuel gauge covering main tank and auxiliary for Veg Oil ...
- DSL1 ECU for Electronic OM606 Pump (currently fitting wiring)
Next; 722.6 Controller, HX40 with homemade manifold, Air-to-water intercooler, homemade exhaust, MOT.... One day!
plasticbadger
01-20-2016, 03:55 PM #9Agricultural is good! We wouldn't be building a coal fired, mechanical monster like this if we liked electronics!
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