OM606 turbo newbie questions
OM606 turbo newbie questions
Been researching this forum, and I'm over my head. A bit of background:
I have a 98 W210 OM606.962 TD (I'm US based) and eventually would like to have about 300 hp out of it. But that's for later.
I know that I will need to change the turbo, send the IP to dieselmakan to up the element, and do a ECU remap. The ECU remap I can get from members here or other forums or I can modify it myself. I can contact dieselmakan later for the IP.
My only question is about the turbo. I've been researching turbo's -- I would like to have lots of low to mid range boost. Ideally between 1000 - 3000 RPM range.
Right now I'm fixated on the HY35 -- apparently it produces boost earlier than HX35. I'm sure I can figure out the flange issue -- I'll copy what the members here are doing.
Here's my actual question:
Is it possible for me to retain the stock wastegate solenoid? Or at least bypass it (since according to pictures, HY35 has a mechanical wastegate that is adjustable and is self contained)?
Do I need to do a 3" downpipe all around for better flow? Can I do that and keep the resonator and muffler?
If HY35 does not fit the bill, then what can I use that will produce what I seek and keep the EGT low?
For that matter, where do you install the pyrometer to measure EGT? Using infrared temp gun, I found that cylinder 6 is the hottest one (measuring the manifold). Or should I just drill a hole behind the turbo and use it?
I'm just researching and trying to compile my data into one solid plan before I proceed with my mods. Any help will be appreciated.
Hi,
Been researching this forum, and I'm over my head. A bit of background:
I have a 98 W210 OM606.962 TD (I'm US based) and eventually would like to have about 300 hp out of it. But that's for later.
I know that I will need to change the turbo, send the IP to dieselmakan to up the element, and do a ECU remap. The ECU remap I can get from members here or other forums or I can modify it myself. I can contact dieselmakan later for the IP.
My only question is about the turbo. I've been researching turbo's -- I would like to have lots of low to mid range boost. Ideally between 1000 - 3000 RPM range.
Right now I'm fixated on the HY35 -- apparently it produces boost earlier than HX35. I'm sure I can figure out the flange issue -- I'll copy what the members here are doing.
Here's my actual question:
Is it possible for me to retain the stock wastegate solenoid? Or at least bypass it (since according to pictures, HY35 has a mechanical wastegate that is adjustable and is self contained)?
Do I need to do a 3" downpipe all around for better flow? Can I do that and keep the resonator and muffler?
If HY35 does not fit the bill, then what can I use that will produce what I seek and keep the EGT low?
For that matter, where do you install the pyrometer to measure EGT? Using infrared temp gun, I found that cylinder 6 is the hottest one (measuring the manifold). Or should I just drill a hole behind the turbo and use it?
I'm just researching and trying to compile my data into one solid plan before I proceed with my mods. Any help will be appreciated.
Or am I wrong?
And that's good to know about the ECU tune.
Thing is, to my understanding, if I install a bigger turbo, like HX35 or something similar (like Garrett), it will produce a lot of EGT if its operating out of efficiency range. Low rpm counts as out of efficiency range, no?
Or am I wrong?
And that's good to know about the ECU tune.
Or in the case of the smaller turbos too much boost in high rpm makes them run outside there efficiency and also due to there small turbine housing run high back pressure resulting in high egt.
Poor intercooler can contribute also
For your goals of 300hp a hx35 is well within its range and using a hy35 will also work but would want lower boost levels if revved high
also running a stock 6mm pump at its limit will have long injection times giving high egt.
outside of its efficiency is more to do with it flowing too much air or overspeeding where it begins to act like a heat pump.
Or in the case of the smaller turbos too much boost in high rpm makes them run outside there efficiency and also due to there small turbine housing run high back pressure resulting in high egt.
Poor intercooler can contribute also
For your goals of 300hp a hx35 is well within its range and using a hy35 will also work but would want lower boost levels if revved high
also running a stock 6mm pump at its limit will have long injection times giving high egt.
I see on fleabay that there are some HX35's in the ~$200 ballpark. Is that a good one or do I focus on other sources?
I have heard enough horror stories about ebay turbo's, but at the same time.....
Apparently there are varieties too. HX35W, HX35G, etc... which ones should I focus on?
Furthermore, is the stock exhaust free flowing with cat removed? Or is it restrictive?
Wow, thanks for the info. It certainly helps. I guess I will abandon the HY35 and instead focus on HX35.
I see on fleabay that there are some HX35's in the ~$200 ballpark. Is that a good one or do I focus on other sources?
I have heard enough horror stories about ebay turbo's, but at the same time.....
Apparently there are varieties too. HX35W, HX35G, etc... which ones should I focus on?
Furthermore, is the stock exhaust free flowing with cat removed? Or is it restrictive?
I am slowly acquiring the needed materials, but I just want to have a taste.
I already read the LLL and HHH 27c2001 chip, but I can't make heads or tails of it.
(02-26-2016, 12:29 AM)Deplore Wow, thanks for the info. It certainly helps. I guess I will abandon the HY35 and instead focus on HX35.
I see on fleabay that there are some HX35's in the ~$200 ballpark. Is that a good one or do I focus on other sources?
I have heard enough horror stories about ebay turbo's, but at the same time.....
Apparently there are varieties too. HX35W, HX35G, etc... which ones should I focus on?
Furthermore, is the stock exhaust free flowing with cat removed? Or is it restrictive?
The HY35 has a 9cm2 area exhaust housing, the HX35 smallest has 12cm2 housing, so the HY will spool earlier, which is what you asked for.
seanyt is saying that because the HY has a smaller turbine housing it will cause an exhaust restriction at high engine revs (more exhaust flow) than the bigger HX35 housing. So big turbo makes power at high revs but laggy, small turbo makes power at low revs (less lag).
The HX & HY 35 both have 2.5" exducer, so unless race car that size will be ok for your needs.
Enlarging the WG port in the HY and generally smoothing (porting) its orifice will help lower EGP according to others but I've no experience with that.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(02-26-2016, 12:29 AM)Deplore Wow, thanks for the info. It certainly helps. I guess I will abandon the HY35 and instead focus on HX35.
I see on fleabay that there are some HX35's in the ~$200 ballpark. Is that a good one or do I focus on other sources?
I have heard enough horror stories about ebay turbo's, but at the same time.....
Apparently there are varieties too. HX35W, HX35G, etc... which ones should I focus on?
Furthermore, is the stock exhaust free flowing with cat removed? Or is it restrictive?
The HY35 has a 9cm2 area exhaust housing, the HX35 smallest has 12cm2 housing, so the HY will spool earlier, which is what you asked for.
seanyt is saying that because the HY has a smaller turbine housing it will cause an exhaust restriction at high engine revs (more exhaust flow) than the bigger HX35 housing. So big turbo makes power at high revs but laggy, small turbo makes power at low revs (less lag).
The HX & HY 35 both have 2.5" exducer, so unless race car that size will be ok for your needs.
Enlarging the WG port in the HY and generally smoothing (porting) its orifice will help lower EGP according to others but I've no experience with that.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(03-11-2016, 07:12 AM)HarioOne correction- The smallest HX35 is 10 cm not 12. I have one I bought from Alcaid on here. I haven't got to try it yet so can't speak to it. PM Alcaid. I am also looking for 300 hp with nice low end spool and he recommended it.(02-26-2016, 12:29 AM)Deplore Wow, thanks for the info. It certainly helps. I guess I will abandon the HY35 and instead focus on HX35.
I see on fleabay that there are some HX35's in the ~$200 ballpark. Is that a good one or do I focus on other sources?
I have heard enough horror stories about ebay turbo's, but at the same time.....
Apparently there are varieties too. HX35W, HX35G, etc... which ones should I focus on?
Furthermore, is the stock exhaust free flowing with cat removed? Or is it restrictive?
The HY35 has a 9cm2 area exhaust housing, the HX35 smallest has 12cm2 housing, so the HY will spool earlier, which is what you asked for.
seanyt is saying that because the HY has a smaller turbine housing it will cause an exhaust restriction at high engine revs (more exhaust flow) than the bigger HX35 housing. So big turbo makes power at high revs but laggy, small turbo makes power at low revs (less lag).
The HX & HY 35 both have 2.5" exducer, so unless race car that size will be ok for your needs.
Enlarging the WG port in the HY and generally smoothing (porting) its orifice will help lower EGP according to others but I've no experience with that.
50harleyrider
03-14-2016, 05:41 AM #11(03-11-2016, 07:12 AM)HarioOne correction- The smallest HX35 is 10 cm not 12. I have one I bought from Alcaid on here. I haven't got to try it yet so can't speak to it. PM Alcaid. I am also looking for 300 hp with nice low end spool and he recommended it.(02-26-2016, 12:29 AM)Deplore Wow, thanks for the info. It certainly helps. I guess I will abandon the HY35 and instead focus on HX35.
I see on fleabay that there are some HX35's in the ~$200 ballpark. Is that a good one or do I focus on other sources?
I have heard enough horror stories about ebay turbo's, but at the same time.....
Apparently there are varieties too. HX35W, HX35G, etc... which ones should I focus on?
Furthermore, is the stock exhaust free flowing with cat removed? Or is it restrictive?
The HY35 has a 9cm2 area exhaust housing, the HX35 smallest has 12cm2 housing, so the HY will spool earlier, which is what you asked for.
seanyt is saying that because the HY has a smaller turbine housing it will cause an exhaust restriction at high engine revs (more exhaust flow) than the bigger HX35 housing. So big turbo makes power at high revs but laggy, small turbo makes power at low revs (less lag).
The HX & HY 35 both have 2.5" exducer, so unless race car that size will be ok for your needs.
Enlarging the WG port in the HY and generally smoothing (porting) its orifice will help lower EGP according to others but I've no experience with that.
(02-24-2016, 04:24 AM)Deplore Hi,
Been researching this forum, and I'm over my head. A bit of background:
I have a 98 W210 OM606.962 TD (I'm US based) and eventually would like to have about 300 hp out of it. But that's for later.
I know that I will need to change the turbo, send the IP to dieselmakan to up the element, and do a ECU remap. The ECU remap I can get from members here or other forums or I can modify it myself. I can contact dieselmakan later for the IP.
My only question is about the turbo. I've been researching turbo's -- I would like to have lots of low to mid range boost. Ideally between 1000 - 3000 RPM range.
Right now I'm fixated on the HY35 -- apparently it produces boost earlier than HX35. I'm sure I can figure out the flange issue -- I'll copy what the members here are doing.
Here's my actual question:
Is it possible for me to retain the stock wastegate solenoid? Or at least bypass it (since according to pictures, HY35 has a mechanical wastegate that is adjustable and is self contained)?
Do I need to do a 3" downpipe all around for better flow? Can I do that and keep the resonator and muffler?
If HY35 does not fit the bill, then what can I use that will produce what I seek and keep the EGT low?
For that matter, where do you install the pyrometer to measure EGT? Using infrared temp gun, I found that cylinder 6 is the hottest one (measuring the manifold). Or should I just drill a hole behind the turbo and use it?
I'm just researching and trying to compile my data into one solid plan before I proceed with my mods. Any help will be appreciated.
atypicalguy
03-14-2016, 05:26 PM #12if 300hp and early spool are the goals then an he221w 7cm would probably work pretty well. not sure about the top end, but it has to be close. the hx30 super would be another option, 6cm housing on that.
(02-24-2016, 04:24 AM)Deplore Hi,
Been researching this forum, and I'm over my head. A bit of background:
I have a 98 W210 OM606.962 TD (I'm US based) and eventually would like to have about 300 hp out of it. But that's for later.
I know that I will need to change the turbo, send the IP to dieselmakan to up the element, and do a ECU remap. The ECU remap I can get from members here or other forums or I can modify it myself. I can contact dieselmakan later for the IP.
My only question is about the turbo. I've been researching turbo's -- I would like to have lots of low to mid range boost. Ideally between 1000 - 3000 RPM range.
Right now I'm fixated on the HY35 -- apparently it produces boost earlier than HX35. I'm sure I can figure out the flange issue -- I'll copy what the members here are doing.
Here's my actual question:
Is it possible for me to retain the stock wastegate solenoid? Or at least bypass it (since according to pictures, HY35 has a mechanical wastegate that is adjustable and is self contained)?
Do I need to do a 3" downpipe all around for better flow? Can I do that and keep the resonator and muffler?
If HY35 does not fit the bill, then what can I use that will produce what I seek and keep the EGT low?
For that matter, where do you install the pyrometer to measure EGT? Using infrared temp gun, I found that cylinder 6 is the hottest one (measuring the manifold). Or should I just drill a hole behind the turbo and use it?
I'm just researching and trying to compile my data into one solid plan before I proceed with my mods. Any help will be appreciated.
The guy wants 300hp. Stock is 177hp. With a tune you have like 220hp. Have you seen the stock intercooler and stock manifold and stock turbo??? And on top of that you are killing the engine with something called EGR.
Upping that power to 300hp with no EGR, a real working intercooler and a turbo twice the size... That's not "to small" or "to high EGT" or anything like that... Don't mix up the facts here. It's 300hp. Not 400hp or 500hp or 600hp. It's 80hp more then a stock car with a tune.
However there's a flip side to that coin. All turbos spoken about are journal bearing and none are billet. That means you have a lot of gain in the lower end. Get a modern turbo and you will have a better responding engine in every way.
Cheers / F
F-tune Performance
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I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
Not a master mind here guys but think of this.
The guy wants 300hp. Stock is 177hp. With a tune you have like 220hp. Have you seen the stock intercooler and stock manifold and stock turbo??? And on top of that you are killing the engine with something called EGR.
Upping that power to 300hp with no EGR, a real working intercooler and a turbo twice the size... That's not "to small" or "to high EGT" or anything like that... Don't mix up the facts here. It's 300hp. Not 400hp or 500hp or 600hp. It's 80hp more then a stock car with a tune.
However there's a flip side to that coin. All turbos spoken about are journal bearing and none are billet. That means you have a lot of gain in the lower end. Get a modern turbo and you will have a better responding engine in every way.
Cheers / F
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
Ball bearings are fine if you want to spend twice as much for the turbo for a little bit faster spool. I would take journal any day. Most people on here are a bit economy minded. But not all.
atypicalguy
03-18-2016, 05:19 AM #14the hx30 super is billet for sure. I think the 221w is also, like an hx27 with a billet wheel, but would have to double check. Either one would do 300hp just fine with a good AFR.
Ball bearings are fine if you want to spend twice as much for the turbo for a little bit faster spool. I would take journal any day. Most people on here are a bit economy minded. But not all.
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