OM606 Dry Sump
OM606 Dry Sump
04-05-2016, 03:11 AM
#1
I have found plenty of discussion, but no actual implementations.
I imagine making a steel sump will not be a big problem, finding the pumps also. Am i right in saying the oil pump drive chain only goes to it and the crank shaft, so can just remove it?
Has anyone here actually done a dry sump on an OM606?
I have found plenty of discussion, but no actual implementations.
I imagine making a steel sump will not be a big problem, finding the pumps also. Am i right in saying the oil pump drive chain only goes to it and the crank shaft, so can just remove it?
04-05-2016, 07:32 AM
#3
I have no choice really as my sump is too close to my axle even with the 648 rear bowl version.
So my action plan:
- Make steel dry sump
- Find pump and fit probably where the aicon pump was.
- Remove oil pump and drive chain
- Find entry point for oil (filter housing port?)
- Find tank
- Get pipes made locally
Any input welcome...
I've researched a few pumps. Pace motorsports in the uk seem to do a good range for around 500 Eur.
I have no choice really as my sump is too close to my axle even with the 648 rear bowl version.
So my action plan:
- Make steel dry sump
- Find pump and fit probably where the aicon pump was.
- Remove oil pump and drive chain
- Find entry point for oil (filter housing port?)
- Find tank
- Get pipes made locally
Any input welcome...
04-05-2016, 11:02 AM
#4
(04-05-2016, 07:32 AM)ho55 I've researched a few pumps. Pace motorsports in the uk seem to do a good range for around 500 Eur.
I have no choice really as my sump is too close to my axle even with the 648 rear bowl version.
So my action plan:
- Make steel dry sump
- Find pump and fit probably where the aicon pump was.
- Remove oil pump and drive chain
- Find entry point for oil (filter housing port?)
- Find tank
- Get pipes made locally
Any input welcome...
The problem is finding a place to mount it were it doesn't interfere with the serpentine belt. The dry sump pump needs to run off of a special belt and drive sprocket.
(04-05-2016, 07:32 AM)ho55 I've researched a few pumps. Pace motorsports in the uk seem to do a good range for around 500 Eur.
I have no choice really as my sump is too close to my axle even with the 648 rear bowl version.
So my action plan:
- Make steel dry sump
- Find pump and fit probably where the aicon pump was.
- Remove oil pump and drive chain
- Find entry point for oil (filter housing port?)
- Find tank
- Get pipes made locally
Any input welcome...
The problem is finding a place to mount it were it doesn't interfere with the serpentine belt. The dry sump pump needs to run off of a special belt and drive sprocket.
04-06-2016, 06:01 AM
#5
(04-05-2016, 11:02 AM)zeeman The problem is finding a place to mount it were it doesn't interfere with the serpentine belt. The dry sump pump needs to run off of a special belt and drive sprocket.
Probably in place of the aircon pump. they can be run off serpentine, although i have to check the loading for the pump i need. If not a toothed belt with a pulley added off the front of the crank.
There are also electric pumps, which have the advantage of pre/post lubrication, but i prefer mechanical for reliability.
(04-05-2016, 11:02 AM)zeeman The problem is finding a place to mount it were it doesn't interfere with the serpentine belt. The dry sump pump needs to run off of a special belt and drive sprocket.
Probably in place of the aircon pump. they can be run off serpentine, although i have to check the loading for the pump i need. If not a toothed belt with a pulley added off the front of the crank.
There are also electric pumps, which have the advantage of pre/post lubrication, but i prefer mechanical for reliability.
04-06-2016, 08:16 AM
#6
(04-05-2016, 03:11 AM)ho55 Has anyone here actually done a dry sump on an OM606?Good luck with your effort. If you want to sell the om648 sump,etc. let me know. I'm still heading that way on my F150 swap. What is your swap project? Have you maxed out your body lift to make room for moving the engine/tranny up to alleviate your sump to axle interference? That's why a lot of guys have went 2WD. Not me. I'm determined to make mine work as you should be. I just don't enjoy climbing up into my truck much anymore.
I have found plenty of discussion, but no actual implementations.
I imagine making a steel sump will not be a big problem, finding the pumps also. Am i right in saying the oil pump drive chain only goes to it and the crank shaft, so can just remove it?
This post was last modified: 04-06-2016, 09:07 AM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
04-06-2016, 08:16 AM #6(04-05-2016, 03:11 AM)ho55 Has anyone here actually done a dry sump on an OM606?Good luck with your effort. If you want to sell the om648 sump,etc. let me know. I'm still heading that way on my F150 swap. What is your swap project? Have you maxed out your body lift to make room for moving the engine/tranny up to alleviate your sump to axle interference? That's why a lot of guys have went 2WD. Not me. I'm determined to make mine work as you should be. I just don't enjoy climbing up into my truck much anymore.
I have found plenty of discussion, but no actual implementations.
I imagine making a steel sump will not be a big problem, finding the pumps also. Am i right in saying the oil pump drive chain only goes to it and the crank shaft, so can just remove it?
04-06-2016, 11:29 AM
#11
(04-06-2016, 09:59 AM)ross I'm interested in dry sumping my OM606 in the Land Rover project. I was wondering about keeping the standard pump but feeding it from a tank and scavenge pump?
Dry sump pumps are larger to handle the volume of the oil lines and tank capacity. The OM 648 pump actually has 3 stages if you take one apart as I have. The OM 648 rear sump pan should be more then adequate to handle a 4x4, one could always add to the sump if it was necessary.
(04-06-2016, 09:59 AM)ross I'm interested in dry sumping my OM606 in the Land Rover project. I was wondering about keeping the standard pump but feeding it from a tank and scavenge pump?
Dry sump pumps are larger to handle the volume of the oil lines and tank capacity. The OM 648 pump actually has 3 stages if you take one apart as I have. The OM 648 rear sump pan should be more then adequate to handle a 4x4, one could always add to the sump if it was necessary.
04-06-2016, 11:55 AM
#12
(04-06-2016, 11:29 AM)zeeman Dry sump pumps are larger to handle the volume of the oil lines and tank capacity.
Not to be contentious, but no, that is not why dry sump pumps are larger.
They are larger because they are scavenging highly aerated oil, sometimes large volumes of aerated oil and sometimes sparse amounts of it depending on the locations of the scavenge pick ups and number of stages.
The pressure stages are often much larger than conventional pumps, despite having a steady supply of oil to its feed (often gravity fed), because they are semi-universal designs for high-rpm racing applications. Understand that the pressure stage of a dry-sump pump can deliver greater pressure and flow than a stock pump, and consideration for pressure relief(s) and other parts of the oil system (like whether the filter can reasonable handle the pressure when oil is cold) should be considered.
This post was last modified: 04-06-2016, 11:57 AM by JVance.
(04-06-2016, 11:29 AM)zeeman Dry sump pumps are larger to handle the volume of the oil lines and tank capacity.
Not to be contentious, but no, that is not why dry sump pumps are larger.
They are larger because they are scavenging highly aerated oil, sometimes large volumes of aerated oil and sometimes sparse amounts of it depending on the locations of the scavenge pick ups and number of stages.
The pressure stages are often much larger than conventional pumps, despite having a steady supply of oil to its feed (often gravity fed), because they are semi-universal designs for high-rpm racing applications. Understand that the pressure stage of a dry-sump pump can deliver greater pressure and flow than a stock pump, and consideration for pressure relief(s) and other parts of the oil system (like whether the filter can reasonable handle the pressure when oil is cold) should be considered.
04-06-2016, 12:46 PM
#13
(04-06-2016, 09:59 AM)ross I'm interested in dry sumping my OM606 in the Land Rover project. I was wondering about keeping the standard pump but feeding it from a tank and scavenge pump?
I've also thought about that. How would you go about getting the feed to the pump from an external tank? You still need a sump of some sort.
(04-06-2016, 09:59 AM)ross I'm interested in dry sumping my OM606 in the Land Rover project. I was wondering about keeping the standard pump but feeding it from a tank and scavenge pump?
I've also thought about that. How would you go about getting the feed to the pump from an external tank? You still need a sump of some sort.
04-06-2016, 01:42 PM
#14
This post was last modified: 04-06-2016, 01:44 PM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
04-06-2016, 01:42 PM #14Zeeman is right. The stock OM606 pump fits in the front and will make a big lump there. What about using the om648 pump and a remote sump? The 648 pump will still have a lump in the front but much less than 606 pump and no sump in the back.
04-06-2016, 02:28 PM
#15
(04-06-2016, 12:46 PM)hooblah(04-06-2016, 09:59 AM)ross I'm interested in dry sumping my OM606 in the Land Rover project. I was wondering about keeping the standard pump but feeding it from a tank and scavenge pump?
I've also thought about that. How would you go about getting the feed to the pump from an external tank? You still need a sump of some sort.
Cut the pick-up tube, braze or weld a AN male fitting onto it. Weld male AN bungs on the inside and outside of the oil pan, opposite to each other. Hose with AN fittings runs from the bung inside the pan to the oil pickup tube. Hose from oil tank runs to the bung on the outside of the pan.
Maybe not the most elegant solution, but it's one way you could do it.
(04-06-2016, 12:46 PM)hooblah(04-06-2016, 09:59 AM)ross I'm interested in dry sumping my OM606 in the Land Rover project. I was wondering about keeping the standard pump but feeding it from a tank and scavenge pump?
I've also thought about that. How would you go about getting the feed to the pump from an external tank? You still need a sump of some sort.
Cut the pick-up tube, braze or weld a AN male fitting onto it. Weld male AN bungs on the inside and outside of the oil pan, opposite to each other. Hose with AN fittings runs from the bung inside the pan to the oil pickup tube. Hose from oil tank runs to the bung on the outside of the pan.
Maybe not the most elegant solution, but it's one way you could do it.
04-06-2016, 03:02 PM
#17
(04-06-2016, 02:55 PM)hooblah Hmm hose, yes. Would be a pita when it comes to install/removal of sump. But it's probably the cheapest and easiest solution.
Less of a PITA than if it were hard-line
Though, hose is probably not as huge a PITA as you think, especially if you used a longer length of hose (i.e. braze the fitting to the pick-up near the pump, and run the bungs on the oil pan near the back).
You also may be limited to hoses that are compatible with being submersed, but a knowledgeable hose shop/supplier might be able to give you some options. It's not going to be under pressure anyway, and an internal coil (spring) will prevent the hose from collapsing.
(04-06-2016, 02:55 PM)hooblah Hmm hose, yes. Would be a pita when it comes to install/removal of sump. But it's probably the cheapest and easiest solution.
Less of a PITA than if it were hard-line
Though, hose is probably not as huge a PITA as you think, especially if you used a longer length of hose (i.e. braze the fitting to the pick-up near the pump, and run the bungs on the oil pan near the back).
You also may be limited to hoses that are compatible with being submersed, but a knowledgeable hose shop/supplier might be able to give you some options. It's not going to be under pressure anyway, and an internal coil (spring) will prevent the hose from collapsing.
04-06-2016, 07:03 PM
#18
Baldur Gislason
If you were going to do a dry sump setup you'd be better off just deleting the stock pump, since you need to fit external scavenge pumps any way. The easiest way to handle it is to use a multi stage pump designed for this use, sold by Peterson and others. You can drive the pump by either a cog belt or by a direct shaft attachment.
Baldur Gislason
04-08-2016, 08:52 AM
#19
Feeding the standard pump would be a pipe through into the remains of the sump from the tank. That would have to be fed by some kind of scavenge pump.
The other option I'm now considering is remaking the sump completely with an OM648 pump. It would be in stainless as my TIG set is DC only. Maybe 5mm faces and 1mm for the rest, That should be strong enough as I assume the standard sump is partly structural? Anyone know how much the OM648 pump body sits below the sump mounting face?
Ho55, sorry I meant using the 648 pump.
Feeding the standard pump would be a pipe through into the remains of the sump from the tank. That would have to be fed by some kind of scavenge pump.
The other option I'm now considering is remaking the sump completely with an OM648 pump. It would be in stainless as my TIG set is DC only. Maybe 5mm faces and 1mm for the rest, That should be strong enough as I assume the standard sump is partly structural? Anyone know how much the OM648 pump body sits below the sump mounting face?
04-09-2016, 12:31 AM
#20
(04-08-2016, 08:52 AM)ross Ho55, sorry I meant using the 648 pump.Pump sets 3 1/2" below mounting pad in block. The OM 648 oil pan sets right close to the pump, in fact the bottom of the pan is recessed to clear the tube on the side of the pump.
Feeding the standard pump would be a pipe through into the remains of the sump from the tank. That would have to be fed by some kind of scavenge pump.
The other option I'm now considering is remaking the sump completely with an OM648 pump. It would be in stainless as my TIG set is DC only. Maybe 5mm faces and 1mm for the rest, That should be strong enough as I assume the standard sump is partly structural? Anyone know how much the OM648 pump body sits below the sump mounting face?
Enclosed are some pics of the pump apart and the oil pan baffles. This is really a good set up already for a 4x4.
Attached Files
Image(s)(04-08-2016, 08:52 AM)ross Ho55, sorry I meant using the 648 pump.Pump sets 3 1/2" below mounting pad in block. The OM 648 oil pan sets right close to the pump, in fact the bottom of the pan is recessed to clear the tube on the side of the pump.
Feeding the standard pump would be a pipe through into the remains of the sump from the tank. That would have to be fed by some kind of scavenge pump.
The other option I'm now considering is remaking the sump completely with an OM648 pump. It would be in stainless as my TIG set is DC only. Maybe 5mm faces and 1mm for the rest, That should be strong enough as I assume the standard sump is partly structural? Anyone know how much the OM648 pump body sits below the sump mounting face?
Enclosed are some pics of the pump apart and the oil pan baffles. This is really a good set up already for a 4x4.
Attached Files
Image(s)
04-09-2016, 12:40 AM
#21
(04-08-2016, 08:52 AM)ross Ho55, sorry I meant using the 648 pump.
Feeding the standard pump would be a pipe through into the remains of the sump from the tank. That would have to be fed by some kind of scavenge pump.
The other option I'm now considering is remaking the sump completely with an OM648 pump. It would be in stainless as my TIG set is DC only. Maybe 5mm faces and 1mm for the rest, That should be strong enough as I assume the standard sump is partly structural? Anyone know how much the OM648 pump body sits below the sump mounting face?
Forgot pics of the pump on the engine.
Attached Files
Image(s)(04-08-2016, 08:52 AM)ross Ho55, sorry I meant using the 648 pump.
Feeding the standard pump would be a pipe through into the remains of the sump from the tank. That would have to be fed by some kind of scavenge pump.
The other option I'm now considering is remaking the sump completely with an OM648 pump. It would be in stainless as my TIG set is DC only. Maybe 5mm faces and 1mm for the rest, That should be strong enough as I assume the standard sump is partly structural? Anyone know how much the OM648 pump body sits below the sump mounting face?
Forgot pics of the pump on the engine.
Attached Files
Image(s)
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