1994 E 250 TD N/A manual becomes a E 250 T Turbodiesel Automatic
1994 E 250 TD N/A manual becomes a E 250 T Turbodiesel Automatic
(03-25-2016, 07:27 AM)Phil O Hi Tobolus,
all thumbs up from me, too! Lots of great engineering in this project!
Your donor car looks exactly like my S202, what made me think I should have bought a better, more expensive and less rusty one...
I've got a lot of questions according to your DIY remap:
What soldering tools did you use to remove the original EPROM chips?
Whats the specification of the new EEPROMs? Are they 28C020?
Do you have to remove the chips every time you modify the maps?
Would you sell me a set of chips with your "+30% fuel 1.5bar" tune?
I want to modify the maps on my own in the future, but this would help me a lot as I do not have an EEPROM programmer, the software and of course the knowledge yet .
I have been looking for an emulator for the EPROMS but found no plug&play solution.
I got a petrol turbo car, too. There is a very nice emulator from moates.net called "the ostrich" that is plugged into the ecu instead of the original
rom chip. It has an usb port, you can alter the maps without taking apart anything, even when the engine is running.
Do you know if there is such a device for the Bosch ecu?
Thanks in advance, keep on that good work.
phil
Hi,
Thanks. I use a hot-air station to desolder the chips, but a simple hot-air gun will work fine if you are careful not to overheat the rest of the ecu.
I use 29C020 chips, which are flash type and can be rewritten as often as you like. I soldered PLCC32 sockets in place of the original chips, so I can remove the flash chips quickly and rewrite them with a new version. I know of emulators for these chips. Eventhough they make remapping a huge lot easier and faster, I fear the costs for a hobby project ;-)
Yes, I would be willing to sell eprom chips with my remap. I am not looking for a huge profit, maybe 50 Euros if you like.
(03-25-2016, 07:27 AM)Phil O Hi Tobolus,
all thumbs up from me, too! Lots of great engineering in this project!
Your donor car looks exactly like my S202, what made me think I should have bought a better, more expensive and less rusty one...
I've got a lot of questions according to your DIY remap:
What soldering tools did you use to remove the original EPROM chips?
Whats the specification of the new EEPROMs? Are they 28C020?
Do you have to remove the chips every time you modify the maps?
Would you sell me a set of chips with your "+30% fuel 1.5bar" tune?
I want to modify the maps on my own in the future, but this would help me a lot as I do not have an EEPROM programmer, the software and of course the knowledge yet .
I have been looking for an emulator for the EPROMS but found no plug&play solution.
I got a petrol turbo car, too. There is a very nice emulator from moates.net called "the ostrich" that is plugged into the ecu instead of the original
rom chip. It has an usb port, you can alter the maps without taking apart anything, even when the engine is running.
Do you know if there is such a device for the Bosch ecu?
Thanks in advance, keep on that good work.
phil
Hi,
Thanks. I use a hot-air station to desolder the chips, but a simple hot-air gun will work fine if you are careful not to overheat the rest of the ecu.
I use 29C020 chips, which are flash type and can be rewritten as often as you like. I soldered PLCC32 sockets in place of the original chips, so I can remove the flash chips quickly and rewrite them with a new version. I know of emulators for these chips. Eventhough they make remapping a huge lot easier and faster, I fear the costs for a hobby project ;-)
Yes, I would be willing to sell eprom chips with my remap. I am not looking for a huge profit, maybe 50 Euros if you like.
(03-26-2016, 09:12 PM)uli124125 hi
i have the WK962/4 with original lift pump with a /8 spring (shortened) and a hand lift pump with washable prefilter.
your problem isnt the lift pump
its the filterits TOOO small,
I honestly never thought about the filter size, but it clearly makes absolute sense. I could bite my own ass not to have tried that a few days ago, because yesterday I put my new hardi 10012-6V in. I mounted it in front of the fuel tank behind the diff, so far it works fine but I doubt it will deliver enough fuel. I didnt measure my fuel pressure before, but I will do that the next days to find out if it increases my fuel pressure far enough...
(03-26-2016, 09:12 PM)uli124125 hi
i have the WK962/4 with original lift pump with a /8 spring (shortened) and a hand lift pump with washable prefilter.
your problem isnt the lift pump
its the filter
I honestly never thought about the filter size, but it clearly makes absolute sense. I could bite my own ass not to have tried that a few days ago, because yesterday I put my new hardi 10012-6V in. I mounted it in front of the fuel tank behind the diff, so far it works fine but I doubt it will deliver enough fuel. I didnt measure my fuel pressure before, but I will do that the next days to find out if it increases my fuel pressure far enough...
Uli, you are totally right. I measured my fuel pressure, it falls below 0 above 3500rpm and full throttle, no difference if the pump is on or off. Switched on without engine running it pumps 0.4 bar. I will replace the stock filter with a big truck filter.
I used an old universal filter head and some baldwin-filters a friend of mine had lying around from his WVO times. Filter is about double the size of the original, but the filter head also fits for big truck filters. The only place it fits is the space above the turbo, but a little heat is always welcome on WVO
I replaced the original filter head with this filter. I also connected the return line to it to get rid of air in the fuel line. To prevent the fuel from flowing right into the return line, I drilled a 2mm hole into a M14x1.5 screw and then tapped a bigger hole into it to connect the return line. Works great!
![[Image: IMAG1328_zps0rd5ggzi.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1328_zps0rd5ggzi.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMAG1330_zpsjsxcvsb5.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1330_zpsjsxcvsb5.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMAG1332_zpsgymyobta.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1332_zpsgymyobta.jpg.html)
I am also getting on with the remapping process. Still not entirely satisfied. I am trying Version No. 13 now, one time it smokes too much, the other time its not powerful enough, the next time the transmission shifts badly... Its really not as easy as I thought it would be. But its a lot of fun
I mounted a bigger fuel filter. Total success, fuel pressure is always above 0,5 bar now, even at high rpm. Thanks Uli!
I used an old universal filter head and some baldwin-filters a friend of mine had lying around from his WVO times. Filter is about double the size of the original, but the filter head also fits for big truck filters. The only place it fits is the space above the turbo, but a little heat is always welcome on WVO
I replaced the original filter head with this filter. I also connected the return line to it to get rid of air in the fuel line. To prevent the fuel from flowing right into the return line, I drilled a 2mm hole into a M14x1.5 screw and then tapped a bigger hole into it to connect the return line. Works great!
I am also getting on with the remapping process. Still not entirely satisfied. I am trying Version No. 13 now, one time it smokes too much, the other time its not powerful enough, the next time the transmission shifts badly... Its really not as easy as I thought it would be. But its a lot of fun
It still does that. Almost all gears slip when boost comes on. I think I will drop another transmission in and refurbish this one.
Just a quick update: I destroyed my Transmission yesterday. Pulled a s124 on a trailer for about 40km at 110kmh on the autobahn, when I was overtaking a tractor afterwards at 60kmh, suddenly the engine revs climbed to 5000rpm but the car wasnt accelerating.
It still does that. Almost all gears slip when boost comes on. I think I will drop another transmission in and refurbish this one.
(03-20-2016, 02:05 PM)Tobulus I am running 1.5 bar (limited to 1.3 above 4000rpm) boost with very little smoke,
Hello,
Wondering why you set the boost to pull back above 4krpm? The ECU on my stock S202 does this also, I am curious, to limit torque for the gearbox or something?
Beers
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(03-20-2016, 02:05 PM)Tobulus I am running 1.5 bar (limited to 1.3 above 4000rpm) boost with very little smoke,
Hello,
Wondering why you set the boost to pull back above 4krpm? The ECU on my stock S202 does this also, I am curious, to limit torque for the gearbox or something?
Beers
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
Yes, I thought it would be safer for the turbo. But actually I run 1.7 bar in my latest setup. By the way, I am very happy with the latest remaps. I finally got it pretty much smoke-free, but still have a quick spooling turbo and very satisfying power output.
(02-18-2016, 03:42 AM)Tobulus I have been driving the car so far without any Problems. Ich exchanged the hard 605 engine mounts for 601 mounts which massively reduced idle vibrations. I also removed the hard and low front springs for original ones.By does memories can you disable egr and turbo electric accurator?
One thing that annoyed me very much is the gigantic turbo lag. I thought about using a microcontroller to fool the ECU and make it think there is more boost (only at lower boost levels) to inject more fuel. But I came to the conclusion, the only way to make the ECU do what I want is to do a remap, so I looked into how to do that.
The program code and the maps are stored on the both chips (hhh and lll) on the lower left in the picture.
Those are EPRoms, you cannot erase them. So you have to desolder them, read rhem with a programmer, modify it with (free) programming software, recalculate the checksums (also free software), write it to new chips and resolder these to the ECU.
Because you have to try different settings, it would be a lot of work the de- and resolder the chips every time you try a new setting. Its easier to solder sockets instead, so you just have to plug the chips into them. Also, instead of the EPRoms, you can use Flash Rom that you can erase and rewrite as often as you want.
The soldering was quite tricky, I had to try three times until all 64 contacts worked and the engine was running again
If somebody wants detailed information on this, I will answer any questions.
So far I am very happy with the result. Turbo lag is completely gone without starting to smoke. Its also a lot easier to tune the engine this way than turning screws which is always a lot like try and error.
Grüße
![[Image: IMAG1209_zpsdif8oiem.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1209_zpsdif8oiem.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMAG1213_zpsiuz65hqg.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1213_zpsiuz65hqg.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMAG1169_zpsr4pbfe2m.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1169_zpsr4pbfe2m.jpg.html)
And can i reed the modified ecu whit kwp2000 and re-write
street_666
04-25-2016, 02:40 AM #61(02-18-2016, 03:42 AM)Tobulus I have been driving the car so far without any Problems. Ich exchanged the hard 605 engine mounts for 601 mounts which massively reduced idle vibrations. I also removed the hard and low front springs for original ones.By does memories can you disable egr and turbo electric accurator?
One thing that annoyed me very much is the gigantic turbo lag. I thought about using a microcontroller to fool the ECU and make it think there is more boost (only at lower boost levels) to inject more fuel. But I came to the conclusion, the only way to make the ECU do what I want is to do a remap, so I looked into how to do that.
The program code and the maps are stored on the both chips (hhh and lll) on the lower left in the picture.
Those are EPRoms, you cannot erase them. So you have to desolder them, read rhem with a programmer, modify it with (free) programming software, recalculate the checksums (also free software), write it to new chips and resolder these to the ECU.
Because you have to try different settings, it would be a lot of work the de- and resolder the chips every time you try a new setting. Its easier to solder sockets instead, so you just have to plug the chips into them. Also, instead of the EPRoms, you can use Flash Rom that you can erase and rewrite as often as you want.
The soldering was quite tricky, I had to try three times until all 64 contacts worked and the engine was running again
If somebody wants detailed information on this, I will answer any questions.
So far I am very happy with the result. Turbo lag is completely gone without starting to smoke. Its also a lot easier to tune the engine this way than turning screws which is always a lot like try and error.
Grüße
And can i reed the modified ecu whit kwp2000 and re-write
(04-25-2016, 03:01 AM)seanyt Yes you can program to stop the ecu going into limp mode from various events like egr and running different turbos.
You cant use anything other than a chip programmer to write to this ecu, by removing the chips and splitting the main file into two 8bit files.
This is very different to edc ecu's in that way.
(04-25-2016, 03:01 AM)seanyt Yes you can program to stop the ecu going into limp mode from various events like egr and running different turbos.
You cant use anything other than a chip programmer to write to this ecu, by removing the chips and splitting the main file into two 8bit files.
This is very different to edc ecu's in that way.
(11-14-2015, 03:22 PM)Tobulus Next thing was the remote central locking. Turns out, it is a relatively simple system. The light unit above the inner mirror receives the signal from the key, sends it to the EZS via Comfort CAN-Bus, if the code from the key was correct the EZS tells the central locking pump via Comfort CAN to open the doors. So I just needed the light module and the pump, make a wiring harness to connect it to power and CAN from the EZS, and connect it to the pressure/vacuum lines of the original central locking pump.Tobulus - this information was sufficient for me to go into my pile of discarded wires and dig out the loom for the remote receiver (from W210), find the vacuum pump and redo the trick you have done. It worked the first time - thank you for your info, vielen dank.
I stripped the light module from its housing and put it in a smaller housing, so it fits under the rear seats.
Works perfectly and the range is OK, too. I do not have an inside locking switch or my direction indicators working on locking or unlocking. Both would require moving the SAM, too. I think I can live without it.
![[Image: IMAG0448_zpsfwosfkox.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG0448_zpsfwosfkox.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMAG0450_zpsufdrfuma.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG0450_zpsufdrfuma.jpg.html)
Question: Did you find the necessary information in WIS? Or do you have a mystical source of wisdom I am not aware of?
North_Star
04-30-2016, 04:44 AM #66(11-14-2015, 03:22 PM)Tobulus Next thing was the remote central locking. Turns out, it is a relatively simple system. The light unit above the inner mirror receives the signal from the key, sends it to the EZS via Comfort CAN-Bus, if the code from the key was correct the EZS tells the central locking pump via Comfort CAN to open the doors. So I just needed the light module and the pump, make a wiring harness to connect it to power and CAN from the EZS, and connect it to the pressure/vacuum lines of the original central locking pump.Tobulus - this information was sufficient for me to go into my pile of discarded wires and dig out the loom for the remote receiver (from W210), find the vacuum pump and redo the trick you have done. It worked the first time - thank you for your info, vielen dank.
I stripped the light module from its housing and put it in a smaller housing, so it fits under the rear seats.
Works perfectly and the range is OK, too. I do not have an inside locking switch or my direction indicators working on locking or unlocking. Both would require moving the SAM, too. I think I can live without it.
Question: Did you find the necessary information in WIS? Or do you have a mystical source of wisdom I am not aware of?
When I reinstalled the propshaft I must have had a hammer in my head or something, I lost lost the positioning of my balancing weights. I wasnt able to balance the propshaft again, so I thought it was time for 100% solution there.
I brought the propshaft to a local propshaft workshop, they welded a new pipe in, re-centered the flanges, put on a new center-bearing and new seals and balanced the whole thing. Its so nice to have a smooth-running ride without all the vibrations :-) Cost me 300 Euros though
A week ago I dropped another gearbox in. The old one slipped in all gears except for the third, so I think the clutchpack k3 is worn out.
When I reinstalled the propshaft I must have had a hammer in my head or something, I lost lost the positioning of my balancing weights. I wasnt able to balance the propshaft again, so I thought it was time for 100% solution there.
I brought the propshaft to a local propshaft workshop, they welded a new pipe in, re-centered the flanges, put on a new center-bearing and new seals and balanced the whole thing. Its so nice to have a smooth-running ride without all the vibrations :-) Cost me 300 Euros though
![[Image: IMAG1402_zpsvxwrvajn.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG1402_zpsvxwrvajn.jpg.html)
North_Star
05-09-2016, 04:06 PM #70I'm thinking the same thing will be the case for me, might as well find the money for a pro job. I think you got pretty good value for money for all that work though, I am looking at 700 EUR for the same job in Denmark. Maybe I should have this done in the north of Germany instead...
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Tobulus, what is you ECU type? MSA25.1 or 15.1? On my C250 I have MSA15.1.
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Well I found that out, flash roms I used for 300TD MSA25 does not work on this.
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Maybe you remember I got fuel pressure problems at high rpm as I drive this car on 100% WVO. I already got a big fuel line (12mm inner diameter), but only a bigger fuel filter cured the problem over the summer. I got 0.6bar fuel pressure at idle and normal load, but as the weather got colder lately, fuel pressure falls below zero above 4000rpm and the engine starts jerking at that point.
I put in a fuel tank filter from a sedan to get 12mm fuel line the whole way to the engine (the estate fuel tank has 8mm fuel line inside the fuel tank). Also, I put in a second prefilter parallel to the old one to get more fuel flow. Fuel pressure got a little better, but problem not solved.
I measured the original spring in the lift pump and got myself a stronger one made (acutally got 20 made because they wouldnt make just one). The new spring has the same dimensions as the old one, only a stronger wire and a different material, so it got twice as much spring force as the old one.
Mounted the spring today, fits perfectly, fuel pressure is 1.2bar at idle, a minimum of 0,7 bar at full power and high revs.
Left the new spring, on the right the (lengthened some time ago) old one.
![[Image: IMAG1724_zpsqqpsvqzh.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1724_zpsqqpsvqzh.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMAG1725_zpsxw1clsyl.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1725_zpsxw1clsyl.jpg.html)
Got a big win today
Maybe you remember I got fuel pressure problems at high rpm as I drive this car on 100% WVO. I already got a big fuel line (12mm inner diameter), but only a bigger fuel filter cured the problem over the summer. I got 0.6bar fuel pressure at idle and normal load, but as the weather got colder lately, fuel pressure falls below zero above 4000rpm and the engine starts jerking at that point.
I put in a fuel tank filter from a sedan to get 12mm fuel line the whole way to the engine (the estate fuel tank has 8mm fuel line inside the fuel tank). Also, I put in a second prefilter parallel to the old one to get more fuel flow. Fuel pressure got a little better, but problem not solved.
I measured the original spring in the lift pump and got myself a stronger one made (acutally got 20 made because they wouldnt make just one). The new spring has the same dimensions as the old one, only a stronger wire and a different material, so it got twice as much spring force as the old one.
Mounted the spring today, fits perfectly, fuel pressure is 1.2bar at idle, a minimum of 0,7 bar at full power and high revs.
Left the new spring, on the right the (lengthened some time ago) old one.
![[Image: 3FD15C9F-5187-4A0D-841C-CA9FB4400BC0_zpsubihltod.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/3FD15C9F-5187-4A0D-841C-CA9FB4400BC0_zpsubihltod.jpg.html)
I already sent out some of the other springs to forum members, so I had to warn them not to mount these springs.
Yesterday, I did a lot of measurements on the lift pump and the stock spring and talked to the company, that produced this spring. We came to the conclusion, that the spring gets too close to the rated minimal legth of the spring, in combination with the high actuating frequency the spring does break.
They will make me some new springs, totally different setup. Different material (sadly not stainless any more), wider diameter but thinner wire and some other modifications. Spring pressure is supposed to be the same. I will report
My big win was followed by a big fail. Suddenly fuel pressure dropped to 0,5bar, later to 0,3 bar. I put in a new fuel filter, without success. Opened up the lift pump and found this:
I already sent out some of the other springs to forum members, so I had to warn them not to mount these springs.
Yesterday, I did a lot of measurements on the lift pump and the stock spring and talked to the company, that produced this spring. We came to the conclusion, that the spring gets too close to the rated minimal legth of the spring, in combination with the high actuating frequency the spring does break.
They will make me some new springs, totally different setup. Different material (sadly not stainless any more), wider diameter but thinner wire and some other modifications. Spring pressure is supposed to be the same. I will report
But I got the new pump springs about a week ago. Done about 1800km with it without issues. Spring pressure is almost the same as with the first spring that broke, so I have about 1.1bar fuel pressure at idle and 0.6 under full load and high rpm. The new springs are made from a different material, wire diameter is almost the same as the stock spring. The springs are shorter but with a wider outer diameter (almost the maximum that fits into the pump piston). But the dimensions are safely chosen, Im not willing to take any risks here
The springs are usually a lot more expensive than the old ones, but I got them for the same price because the old ones failed.
![[Image: 3A842521-989F-4088-9DDF-57BAF9886E53_zpsfxmjo9iy.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/3A842521-989F-4088-9DDF-57BAF9886E53_zpsfxmjo9iy.jpg.html)
New spring on the right, stock one on the left.
Yeah, somtimes the car beats me
But I got the new pump springs about a week ago. Done about 1800km with it without issues. Spring pressure is almost the same as with the first spring that broke, so I have about 1.1bar fuel pressure at idle and 0.6 under full load and high rpm. The new springs are made from a different material, wire diameter is almost the same as the stock spring. The springs are shorter but with a wider outer diameter (almost the maximum that fits into the pump piston). But the dimensions are safely chosen, Im not willing to take any risks here
The springs are usually a lot more expensive than the old ones, but I got them for the same price because the old ones failed.
New spring on the right, stock one on the left.
![[Image: IMG_0017_zpsej8ld0ya.png]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMG_0017_zpsej8ld0ya.png.html)
I found a turbo map of a kkk k14, the stock 606 turbo that I put on my 605. I calculated air flow for a stock 606 and for my remapped 605. Its a desaster, I only go for 1.2 bar boost up to 3000rpm and 1.4 above. The turbo can provide that only up to 3600 rpm. I definately need a bigger turbo to get horsepower at higher rpm, which is nice because I get a lot more horsepower at the same torque, which means I do not destroy my 722.6
Looking at Turbo maps, I found the best suiting turbos for my needs are the Garrett GT2860R and Mitsubishi TD05H-16G (not sure about the last one). I found the china clone GT2871 for 200€. A little too big for my needs, but at that price... Its not ball bearing like the original, but when it fails I should be able to swap in an original Garrett mid section.
So I made a flange
![[Image: IMAG1824_zps32ro2xag.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1824_zps32ro2xag.jpg.html)
Luckily I have a 605 lying around in my workshop at the moment, gonna swap that into my brothers 124 in the next few weeks. That made manufaturing adapters and stuff for the turbo a lot easier.
I am not gonna re-route the boost pipes. The whole plumbig should stay as close to original as possible, I dont want to have any problems at the TÜV-Inspection (MOT) or when I have an accident of some kind. So its kind of a puzzle, to mount the new turbo below the EGR-valve and between the engine and the coolant-tank.
![[Image: IMAG1826_zpsltl1yvfb.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1826_zpsltl1yvfb.jpg.html)
Welded
![[Image: IMAG1828_zpsjr3ivc7p.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1828_zpsjr3ivc7p.jpg.html)
Direct fit to the original pre-intercooler boost pipe. A little close to the header, but there will be the heat shield in between.
![[Image: IMAG1829_zpsgnlsnw0k.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1829_zpsgnlsnw0k.jpg.html)
Oils supply is a regular hydraulic hose, I pressed the connections at work and pulled some insulation over it.
![[Image: IMAG1839_zpsatptevhl.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1839_zpsatptevhl.jpg.html)
Oil drain also fitted. I made it from copper/brass fittings I soldered together, also pulled a heat protection over it. Sorry I dont have a better pic. Wastegate is also plumbed.
![[Image: IMAG1840_zpsbr0zmbt3.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1840_zpsbr0zmbt3.jpg.html)
A tight fit
![[Image: IMAG1847_zpsrgwuejiq.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1847_zpsrgwuejiq.jpg.html)
Especially with the air filter bracket in place. I also connected the water pipes, they are inline with the washer tank heating line.
![[Image: IMAG1851_zpspqwrygmh.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1851_zpspqwrygmh.jpg.html)
Made a block-off EGR seal
EGR Valve is one thing, the TÜV inspector tends to look at, so I better keep it in place.![[Image: IMAG1850_zpssddtfmgm.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1850_zpssddtfmgm.jpg.html)
![[Image: IMAG1849_zps7wos57cx.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1849_zps7wos57cx.jpg.html)
Old:
![[Image: IMAG1845_zpsslugubdj.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1845_zpsslugubdj.jpg.html)
New:
![[Image: IMAG1852_zpsfdz6j2jf.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1852_zpsfdz6j2jf.jpg.html)
All the heat protection wrap makes it a bit obvious there is not the original turbo mounted. I hope time will darken it a bit, I also get a black pipe from the air filter to the turbo.
After the testdrives I hat a bit of a fight with the wastegate acutator. It is set to 0.8 bar by factory, but the spring inside is so loose. I removed the hose from the actuator and it opened at 1 bar only by exhaust pressure (I did not port the tiny wastegate-hole, so with ported it should open even sooner). I shortened the rod till it had only 4mm of travel left and I got 1.4 bar of boost. Also boost kicks in pretty hard around 3000 rpm, I really dont like that for a daily. So I removed that stupid pressure-acutator and fitted a vacuum-actuator from a S 350 TD stock turbo (Garrett). That way I gain full control over the boost setting and can get the turbo kick in a lot smoother.
This is my boost map. The black one is the stock map, the coloured one is my custom map. Blue parts are lower that original, red ones are higher.
![[Image: IMAG1855_zpspvmugjl0.jpg]](http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Tobulus/media/IMAG1855_zpspvmugjl0.jpg.html)
I just realized, I could just have saved a screenshot, instead I take my mobile phone and take a photo of my screen
So I went pretty much the same route that charlysays described in his thread
Looking at Turbo maps, I found the best suiting turbos for my needs are the Garrett GT2860R and Mitsubishi TD05H-16G (not sure about the last one). I found the china clone GT2871 for 200€. A little too big for my needs, but at that price... Its not ball bearing like the original, but when it fails I should be able to swap in an original Garrett mid section.
So I made a flange
Luckily I have a 605 lying around in my workshop at the moment, gonna swap that into my brothers 124 in the next few weeks. That made manufaturing adapters and stuff for the turbo a lot easier.
I am not gonna re-route the boost pipes. The whole plumbig should stay as close to original as possible, I dont want to have any problems at the TÜV-Inspection (MOT) or when I have an accident of some kind. So its kind of a puzzle, to mount the new turbo below the EGR-valve and between the engine and the coolant-tank.
Welded
Direct fit to the original pre-intercooler boost pipe. A little close to the header, but there will be the heat shield in between.
Oils supply is a regular hydraulic hose, I pressed the connections at work and pulled some insulation over it.
Oil drain also fitted. I made it from copper/brass fittings I soldered together, also pulled a heat protection over it. Sorry I dont have a better pic. Wastegate is also plumbed.
A tight fit
Especially with the air filter bracket in place. I also connected the water pipes, they are inline with the washer tank heating line.
Made a block-off EGR seal EGR Valve is one thing, the TÜV inspector tends to look at, so I better keep it in place.
Old:
New:
All the heat protection wrap makes it a bit obvious there is not the original turbo mounted. I hope time will darken it a bit, I also get a black pipe from the air filter to the turbo.
After the testdrives I hat a bit of a fight with the wastegate acutator. It is set to 0.8 bar by factory, but the spring inside is so loose. I removed the hose from the actuator and it opened at 1 bar only by exhaust pressure (I did not port the tiny wastegate-hole, so with ported it should open even sooner). I shortened the rod till it had only 4mm of travel left and I got 1.4 bar of boost. Also boost kicks in pretty hard around 3000 rpm, I really dont like that for a daily. So I removed that stupid pressure-acutator and fitted a vacuum-actuator from a S 350 TD stock turbo (Garrett). That way I gain full control over the boost setting and can get the turbo kick in a lot smoother.
This is my boost map. The black one is the stock map, the coloured one is my custom map. Blue parts are lower that original, red ones are higher.
I just realized, I could just have saved a screenshot, instead I take my mobile phone and take a photo of my screen
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
I found that vacuum actuator to put a loooot of lag when you change gears since ECU open WG at that time and there is finite time to vacuum suck it back in. I am going to do opposite you did, get rid of that stupid vac actuator and place standart pressure operated.
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
If you remap the boost map to keep a high boost at lower IQs, the ecu will not open the wastegate when shifting.
I actually measured that time, the difference is actually not to feel. I hooked vac directly to the actuator, the boost behaviour stays the same (until the ecu goes into limp home). The boost pressure breaks down because the ecu reduces IQ during shifting under high loads.
If you remap the boost map to keep a high boost at lower IQs, the ecu will not open the wastegate when shifting.
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Hm that saddens me then. I see good 0,5s of nothing between shifts and then my 0-100 sucks.
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
You can remap the ecu for lower IQs at raised pump voltage, that way the ecu thinks it is running at lower torque levels and doesnt reduce IQs during shifting that much. But you will also end up with a crappy shifting behaviour.
Yes, thats the effect. It protects the gearbox, shifting under high load is what wears them out.
You can remap the ecu for lower IQs at raised pump voltage, that way the ecu thinks it is running at lower torque levels and doesnt reduce IQs during shifting that much. But you will also end up with a crappy shifting behaviour.
he is running upto 1.5bar at present now on the gt2871 and is testing a 6k revlimit map i sent him.
He will also be testing a new larger turbo on his car with a new remap in a few months.
charlie has needed to swap the actuator to a higher rated one. due to egp pushing the stock one open.
he is running upto 1.5bar at present now on the gt2871 and is testing a 6k revlimit map i sent him.
He will also be testing a new larger turbo on his car with a new remap in a few months.
He did notice it spool soon with it.
you can change the spring internally so i believe he is going to change it again.
But he gets very little wastegate movement now.
he has an adjustable pressure actuator that is set at 1bar initially i think. as opposed to the stock one they send at 0.5bar.
He did notice it spool soon with it.
you can change the spring internally so i believe he is going to change it again.
But he gets very little wastegate movement now.
I would be very interested in purchasing one of these uprated lift pump springs off you!
Do you think fitting a flate plate heat exchanger before any of the filters would be enough, coupled with the stronger lift pump spring for good operation at around 0 degrees C? I'm trying to avoid changing the fuel lines lol.
I've been running OM605s on pure WVO for over 5 yrs and just put up with the high rpm fuel restriction in winter. It doesn't get very cold though as I'm on the coast with the gulf stream keeping me warm- hard frosts are rare.
I have a rebuild able pressure actuator from Forge Motorsport.
I started with a 1.2 bar spring and now have a 1.5 bar spring.
What I have found is similar to you- the wastegate opening is determined partly by EGP and partly by pressure on the diaphragm in the actuator.
If I adjusted my 1.2 bar actuator all the way up so it only had a few mm of travel, it would boost up to 1.25 bar.
The same goes now I have a stronger spring in there. With it adjusted all the way up it'll do about 1.6 bar in 2nd and 3rd. Can't really max it out in 4th due to crashing on the roads round here.
There are a few of us using this maxpeedingrods GT28 now, will be interesting to see how they hold up. Over 3k miles on mine now, though I did rebuild it and have it balanced. The company who did it said it was fine to begin with though.
I have a T04E I'm going to try in the spring with a new adapter. I think the stock pump can safely be maxed out into that. GT28 is getting a bit hot and there's still some way to go on the voltage map but I still think it's the best compromise for daily driving including towing etc.
charlysays
12-01-2016, 05:10 AM #91Great project this
I would be very interested in purchasing one of these uprated lift pump springs off you!
Do you think fitting a flate plate heat exchanger before any of the filters would be enough, coupled with the stronger lift pump spring for good operation at around 0 degrees C? I'm trying to avoid changing the fuel lines lol.
I've been running OM605s on pure WVO for over 5 yrs and just put up with the high rpm fuel restriction in winter. It doesn't get very cold though as I'm on the coast with the gulf stream keeping me warm- hard frosts are rare.
I have a rebuild able pressure actuator from Forge Motorsport.
I started with a 1.2 bar spring and now have a 1.5 bar spring.
What I have found is similar to you- the wastegate opening is determined partly by EGP and partly by pressure on the diaphragm in the actuator.
If I adjusted my 1.2 bar actuator all the way up so it only had a few mm of travel, it would boost up to 1.25 bar.
The same goes now I have a stronger spring in there. With it adjusted all the way up it'll do about 1.6 bar in 2nd and 3rd. Can't really max it out in 4th due to crashing on the roads round here.
There are a few of us using this maxpeedingrods GT28 now, will be interesting to see how they hold up. Over 3k miles on mine now, though I did rebuild it and have it balanced. The company who did it said it was fine to begin with though.
I have a T04E I'm going to try in the spring with a new adapter. I think the stock pump can safely be maxed out into that. GT28 is getting a bit hot and there's still some way to go on the voltage map but I still think it's the best compromise for daily driving including towing etc.
We had temperatures of -5 degree in the morning this week. I have 50 kilometers to go to work, and thats only one way. I didnt have fuel pressure problems, always above 0.4 bar on 100% WVO. But I have pretty much upgraded fuel system. Fuel line 12mm ID straight from the tank, stronger lift pump, two parallel prefilters, big main filter. I used heater cores in the early WVO days, still have some lying around. Made it a lot easier, but the fuel tank always endet up with brown smudge inside. It didnt affect the function, but I didnt like it and you will loose power because the hotter the fuel, the less energy there is inside at the same volume. Its noticeable.
I am actually pretty happy with the gt28 so far. Spools around 3000 rpm on a smokefree map, but still maintains about 0.4 bar boost above 2200rpm. thats enough for swimming in the traffic.
I still have a single one of these springs left, all sold to users in this forum except for the first three. If I get at least ten more inquiries, I will have another package of them made.
We had temperatures of -5 degree in the morning this week. I have 50 kilometers to go to work, and thats only one way. I didnt have fuel pressure problems, always above 0.4 bar on 100% WVO. But I have pretty much upgraded fuel system. Fuel line 12mm ID straight from the tank, stronger lift pump, two parallel prefilters, big main filter. I used heater cores in the early WVO days, still have some lying around. Made it a lot easier, but the fuel tank always endet up with brown smudge inside. It didnt affect the function, but I didnt like it and you will loose power because the hotter the fuel, the less energy there is inside at the same volume. Its noticeable.
I am actually pretty happy with the gt28 so far. Spools around 3000 rpm on a smokefree map, but still maintains about 0.4 bar boost above 2200rpm. thats enough for swimming in the traffic.
(12-01-2016, 02:03 PM)Tobulus I still have a single one of these springs left, all sold to users in this forum except for the first three. If I get at least ten more inquiries, I will have another package of them made.
We had temperatures of -5 degree in the morning this week. I have 50 kilometers to go to work, and thats only one way. I didnt have fuel pressure problems, always above 0.4 bar on 100% WVO. But I have pretty much upgraded fuel system. Fuel line 12mm ID straight from the tank, stronger lift pump, two parallel prefilters, big main filter. I used heater cores in the early WVO days, still have some lying around. Made it a lot easier, but the fuel tank always endet up with brown smudge inside. It didnt affect the function, but I didnt like it and you will loose power because the hotter the fuel, the less energy there is inside at the same volume. Its noticeable.
I am actually pretty happy with the gt28 so far. Spools around 3000 rpm on a smokefree map, but still maintains about 0.4 bar boost above 2200rpm. thats enough for swimming in the traffic.
Please do bear me in mind when you get another batch made
I'll buy two of these springs actually as I have two OM605s.
Ah yeah, WVO expands a lot with heat/ becomes a lot lighter- this also causes issues with W202 saddle tanks.
As a compromise I will hopefully get good operation at 0C with just a big filter and one of your LP springs. I'll change the fuel lines as a last resort!
Are you measuring EGT?
Mine is fairly smoke free especially at high rpm but without care could get dangerously hot EGT especially when towing.
GT28 is definitely a good turbo for the stock pump
The only time the extra lag causes me any issues is when towing, but the 722.6 has adapted the shifting now and changes down to get the engine onto boost so I don't have to use the manual selector much anymore.
charlysays
12-07-2016, 05:22 AM #93(12-01-2016, 02:03 PM)Tobulus I still have a single one of these springs left, all sold to users in this forum except for the first three. If I get at least ten more inquiries, I will have another package of them made.
We had temperatures of -5 degree in the morning this week. I have 50 kilometers to go to work, and thats only one way. I didnt have fuel pressure problems, always above 0.4 bar on 100% WVO. But I have pretty much upgraded fuel system. Fuel line 12mm ID straight from the tank, stronger lift pump, two parallel prefilters, big main filter. I used heater cores in the early WVO days, still have some lying around. Made it a lot easier, but the fuel tank always endet up with brown smudge inside. It didnt affect the function, but I didnt like it and you will loose power because the hotter the fuel, the less energy there is inside at the same volume. Its noticeable.
I am actually pretty happy with the gt28 so far. Spools around 3000 rpm on a smokefree map, but still maintains about 0.4 bar boost above 2200rpm. thats enough for swimming in the traffic.
Please do bear me in mind when you get another batch made
I'll buy two of these springs actually as I have two OM605s.
Ah yeah, WVO expands a lot with heat/ becomes a lot lighter- this also causes issues with W202 saddle tanks.
As a compromise I will hopefully get good operation at 0C with just a big filter and one of your LP springs. I'll change the fuel lines as a last resort!
Are you measuring EGT?
Mine is fairly smoke free especially at high rpm but without care could get dangerously hot EGT especially when towing.
GT28 is definitely a good turbo for the stock pump
The only time the extra lag causes me any issues is when towing, but the 722.6 has adapted the shifting now and changes down to get the engine onto boost so I don't have to use the manual selector much anymore.
(12-07-2016, 05:22 AM)charlysays(12-01-2016, 02:03 PM)Tobulus I still have a single one of these springs left, all sold to users in this forum except for the first three. If I get at least ten more inquiries, I will have another package of them made.
We had temperatures of -5 degree in the morning this week. I have 50 kilometers to go to work, and thats only one way. I didnt have fuel pressure problems, always above 0.4 bar on 100% WVO. But I have pretty much upgraded fuel system. Fuel line 12mm ID straight from the tank, stronger lift pump, two parallel prefilters, big main filter. I used heater cores in the early WVO days, still have some lying around. Made it a lot easier, but the fuel tank always endet up with brown smudge inside. It didnt affect the function, but I didnt like it and you will loose power because the hotter the fuel, the less energy there is inside at the same volume. Its noticeable.
I am actually pretty happy with the gt28 so far. Spools around 3000 rpm on a smokefree map, but still maintains about 0.4 bar boost above 2200rpm. thats enough for swimming in the traffic.
Please do bear me in mind when you get another batch made
I'll buy two of these springs actually as I have two OM605s.
Ah yeah, WVO expands a lot with heat/ becomes a lot lighter- this also causes issues with W202 saddle tanks.
As a compromise I will hopefully get good operation at 0C with just a big filter and one of your LP springs. I'll change the fuel lines as a last resort!
Are you measuring EGT?
Mine is fairly smoke free especially at high rpm but without care could get dangerously hot EGT especially when towing.
GT28 is definitely a good turbo for the stock pump
What is "dangerously hot EGT".. how much °C or F is that?
(12-07-2016, 05:22 AM)charlysays(12-01-2016, 02:03 PM)Tobulus I still have a single one of these springs left, all sold to users in this forum except for the first three. If I get at least ten more inquiries, I will have another package of them made.
We had temperatures of -5 degree in the morning this week. I have 50 kilometers to go to work, and thats only one way. I didnt have fuel pressure problems, always above 0.4 bar on 100% WVO. But I have pretty much upgraded fuel system. Fuel line 12mm ID straight from the tank, stronger lift pump, two parallel prefilters, big main filter. I used heater cores in the early WVO days, still have some lying around. Made it a lot easier, but the fuel tank always endet up with brown smudge inside. It didnt affect the function, but I didnt like it and you will loose power because the hotter the fuel, the less energy there is inside at the same volume. Its noticeable.
I am actually pretty happy with the gt28 so far. Spools around 3000 rpm on a smokefree map, but still maintains about 0.4 bar boost above 2200rpm. thats enough for swimming in the traffic.
Please do bear me in mind when you get another batch made
I'll buy two of these springs actually as I have two OM605s.
Ah yeah, WVO expands a lot with heat/ becomes a lot lighter- this also causes issues with W202 saddle tanks.
As a compromise I will hopefully get good operation at 0C with just a big filter and one of your LP springs. I'll change the fuel lines as a last resort!
Are you measuring EGT?
Mine is fairly smoke free especially at high rpm but without care could get dangerously hot EGT especially when towing.
GT28 is definitely a good turbo for the stock pump
What is "dangerously hot EGT".. how much °C or F is that?
(12-07-2016, 08:41 AM)zenins(12-07-2016, 05:22 AM)charlysays(12-01-2016, 02:03 PM)Tobulus I still have a single one of these springs left, all sold to users in this forum except for the first three. If I get at least ten more inquiries, I will have another package of them made.
We had temperatures of -5 degree in the morning this week. I have 50 kilometers to go to work, and thats only one way. I didnt have fuel pressure problems, always above 0.4 bar on 100% WVO. But I have pretty much upgraded fuel system. Fuel line 12mm ID straight from the tank, stronger lift pump, two parallel prefilters, big main filter. I used heater cores in the early WVO days, still have some lying around. Made it a lot easier, but the fuel tank always endet up with brown smudge inside. It didnt affect the function, but I didnt like it and you will loose power because the hotter the fuel, the less energy there is inside at the same volume. Its noticeable.
I am actually pretty happy with the gt28 so far. Spools around 3000 rpm on a smokefree map, but still maintains about 0.4 bar boost above 2200rpm. thats enough for swimming in the traffic.
Please do bear me in mind when you get another batch made
I'll buy two of these springs actually as I have two OM605s.
Ah yeah, WVO expands a lot with heat/ becomes a lot lighter- this also causes issues with W202 saddle tanks.
As a compromise I will hopefully get good operation at 0C with just a big filter and one of your LP springs. I'll change the fuel lines as a last resort!
Are you measuring EGT?
Mine is fairly smoke free especially at high rpm but without care could get dangerously hot EGT especially when towing.
GT28 is definitely a good turbo for the stock pump
What is "dangerously hot EGT".. how much °C or F is that?
If it reaches 800 C for more than a few seconds I worry and will back off. There seems to be a lack of information in terms of what temperatures people have damaged OM605/606s or damaged the turbo. I can't determine if this is because lots of people don't measure EGT and just assume that if there's no smoke all is well (as I said in my experience you can have little or no smoke and still get potentially dangerous EGT) or if these engines are very resilient to high EGT.
General driving it rarely gets past 650C.
This is why I'm going to try the T04E. 55/65mm turbine vs the 47/54mm GT28 turbine. 76mm compressor vs 71mm in the GT28. Same 0.63 exhaust housing with internal WG. So should be able to run the same map with very safe EGT even when towing, then look at getting a map off Sean to get the last dregs of fuel out of those 6mm elements to see how far I can go with that. Will probably be laggier though. If it works well in terms of EGT and maxing the pump I'll fit a billet wheel and 360 kit.
charlysays
12-09-2016, 06:37 AM #95(12-07-2016, 08:41 AM)zenins(12-07-2016, 05:22 AM)charlysays(12-01-2016, 02:03 PM)Tobulus I still have a single one of these springs left, all sold to users in this forum except for the first three. If I get at least ten more inquiries, I will have another package of them made.
We had temperatures of -5 degree in the morning this week. I have 50 kilometers to go to work, and thats only one way. I didnt have fuel pressure problems, always above 0.4 bar on 100% WVO. But I have pretty much upgraded fuel system. Fuel line 12mm ID straight from the tank, stronger lift pump, two parallel prefilters, big main filter. I used heater cores in the early WVO days, still have some lying around. Made it a lot easier, but the fuel tank always endet up with brown smudge inside. It didnt affect the function, but I didnt like it and you will loose power because the hotter the fuel, the less energy there is inside at the same volume. Its noticeable.
I am actually pretty happy with the gt28 so far. Spools around 3000 rpm on a smokefree map, but still maintains about 0.4 bar boost above 2200rpm. thats enough for swimming in the traffic.
Please do bear me in mind when you get another batch made
I'll buy two of these springs actually as I have two OM605s.
Ah yeah, WVO expands a lot with heat/ becomes a lot lighter- this also causes issues with W202 saddle tanks.
As a compromise I will hopefully get good operation at 0C with just a big filter and one of your LP springs. I'll change the fuel lines as a last resort!
Are you measuring EGT?
Mine is fairly smoke free especially at high rpm but without care could get dangerously hot EGT especially when towing.
GT28 is definitely a good turbo for the stock pump
What is "dangerously hot EGT".. how much °C or F is that?
If it reaches 800 C for more than a few seconds I worry and will back off. There seems to be a lack of information in terms of what temperatures people have damaged OM605/606s or damaged the turbo. I can't determine if this is because lots of people don't measure EGT and just assume that if there's no smoke all is well (as I said in my experience you can have little or no smoke and still get potentially dangerous EGT) or if these engines are very resilient to high EGT.
General driving it rarely gets past 650C.
This is why I'm going to try the T04E. 55/65mm turbine vs the 47/54mm GT28 turbine. 76mm compressor vs 71mm in the GT28. Same 0.63 exhaust housing with internal WG. So should be able to run the same map with very safe EGT even when towing, then look at getting a map off Sean to get the last dregs of fuel out of those 6mm elements to see how far I can go with that. Will probably be laggier though. If it works well in terms of EGT and maxing the pump I'll fit a billet wheel and 360 kit.
Here are all the pictures on google photos. I also swapped in a GT2359V and build an electronic boost controller based on arduino and dnms boost controller software. Works very nice
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EcQQmDn6ZVaTAH3D2
So photobucket wants money from me now which I am not going to give them.
Here are all the pictures on google photos. I also swapped in a GT2359V and build an electronic boost controller based on arduino and dnms boost controller software. Works very nice
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EcQQmDn6ZVaTAH3D2
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