No more flex discs
No more flex discs
The main benefit I can think of is eliminating the flex discs. They can be upgraded to the larger W126 V8 discs to handle "superturbo power", but if you're going to do that it will still need a custom or cut W126 driveshaft. It would also be a good option for a 5-speed job missing the driveshaft.
If one were to go this route, couldn't a single straight shaft with a slip yoke be used? If there is a u-joint on each end, I don't see the need for a center bearing or 3rd u-joint.
ForcedInduction
10-26-2009, 02:36 AM
#1
I came across a thread listing the Spicer yoke 3104-27 matches the Mercedes' 27 spline 722 transmission output and differential input. Seal is Timken #473445, the differential is SKF #16900.
The main benefit I can think of is eliminating the flex discs. They can be upgraded to the larger W126 V8 discs to handle "superturbo power", but if you're going to do that it will still need a custom or cut W126 driveshaft. It would also be a good option for a 5-speed job missing the driveshaft.
If one were to go this route, couldn't a single straight shaft with a slip yoke be used? If there is a u-joint on each end, I don't see the need for a center bearing or 3rd u-joint.
I don't see why not would be a problem and definitely cheaper if a straight shaft is used. He spent 700 bucks to make his two piece drive shaft here locally.
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Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
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DeliveryValve
10-26-2009, 11:24 AM #2Yes this is from Austin's 300CE here in Bakersfield. Looks like a great option.
I don't see why not would be a problem and definitely cheaper if a straight shaft is used. He spent 700 bucks to make his two piece drive shaft here locally.
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Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
(10-26-2009, 11:24 AM)DeliveryValve Yes this is from Austin's 300CE here in Bakersfield.
Does he have a 4 spd? I'd be interested to see if the resonance vibe is missing/reduced/worse with this setup.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
10-26-2009, 06:30 PM #3(10-26-2009, 11:24 AM)DeliveryValve Yes this is from Austin's 300CE here in Bakersfield.
Does he have a 4 spd? I'd be interested to see if the resonance vibe is missing/reduced/worse with this setup.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
(10-26-2009, 06:30 PM)SurfRodder Does he have a 4 spd? I'd be interested to see if the resonance vibe is missing/reduced/worse with this setup.
He has a 190 16v 5 speed conversion in his 1992 300CE. I have not seen the setup personally, he is battling a blown head gasket and lives bit on the outskits. He told me once it is up and running he'll bring it by for me to check out. Stated that the Mercedes refinement is gone and feels more like a sports car with more feeling to driveline.
Here are some other links.
Here are more places to the get the Yokes. Fits 1970s or 1980s Dodge 7.25" & 8.25" End Yoke for 1310 Series Ujoints
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/dodge725...851-1.aspx
http://www.shaftmasters.com/ch7inpiyo13s.html
http://www.monstermarketplace.com/Automo...11a40.html
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Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
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DeliveryValve
10-27-2009, 08:37 AM #4(10-26-2009, 06:30 PM)SurfRodder Does he have a 4 spd? I'd be interested to see if the resonance vibe is missing/reduced/worse with this setup.
He has a 190 16v 5 speed conversion in his 1992 300CE. I have not seen the setup personally, he is battling a blown head gasket and lives bit on the outskits. He told me once it is up and running he'll bring it by for me to check out. Stated that the Mercedes refinement is gone and feels more like a sports car with more feeling to driveline.
Here are some other links.
Here are more places to the get the Yokes. Fits 1970s or 1980s Dodge 7.25" & 8.25" End Yoke for 1310 Series Ujoints
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/dodge725...851-1.aspx
http://www.shaftmasters.com/ch7inpiyo13s.html
http://www.monstermarketplace.com/Automo...11a40.html
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Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
Do you guys think this will work on a W124 chassis as well? I'm upgrading from the 185mm to 210mm differential, and the drive shafts are different lengths.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(10-27-2009, 01:57 PM)Tymbrymi Do you guys think this will work on a W124 chassis as well? I'm upgrading from the 185mm to 210mm differential, and the drive shafts are different lengths.
Well Austin's 300CE is a w124. I am sure it will work with your application.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
10-27-2009, 02:44 PM #6(10-27-2009, 01:57 PM)Tymbrymi Do you guys think this will work on a W124 chassis as well? I'm upgrading from the 185mm to 210mm differential, and the drive shafts are different lengths.
Well Austin's 300CE is a w124. I am sure it will work with your application.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
I have two new flex discs (spendy little buggers) for my W210...but I'd rather have greasable u-joints...and I do have a nasty vibration going on that I'm hoping to eliminate at some point.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
10-28-2009, 10:17 AM #7AWESOME info - thanks for posting.
I have two new flex discs (spendy little buggers) for my W210...but I'd rather have greasable u-joints...and I do have a nasty vibration going on that I'm hoping to eliminate at some point.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
I like that the flange you have puts the U-joint closer to the transmission.
this is a different application but last week, I received my custom spicer short shaft for the G-wagen. It goes between transmission and transfer case and is 10.7" long.
has about 1" of slip joint play. at that length, every 1/4" matters and balance is critical to keep the vibrations down.
-C
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
nice!
I like that the flange you have puts the U-joint closer to the transmission.
this is a different application but last week, I received my custom spicer short shaft for the G-wagen. It goes between transmission and transfer case and is 10.7" long.
has about 1" of slip joint play. at that length, every 1/4" matters and balance is critical to keep the vibrations down.
-C
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
CID Vicious
11-17-2009, 07:08 PM #9Would this work on a 240D's four speed manual? I'm using my 240D for parts to convert my new 300D, and if I can get a 'real' driveshaft and U joints for the car for at/near the same price as having the 240's driveshaft shortened the requisite four inches, I'd probably go that route instead.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
So does anybody know how to add a slip joint into this mix? Sounds like we would have to change the output flange of the transmission....
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
But that's no huge deal - unlike a solid axle the differential stays put and the axles move, so there's no need for a slip joint. If there was a need, there'd be one in the stock system. Otherwise we'd all be eating flex discs left and right, especially the way some of us drive...
So, rereading the posts, you'd use the same yoke front and back? I think the elimination of three expensive wear items, in addition to the slack this would take out of the driveline, would be worth the effort for my 300D conversion.
CID Vicious
11-18-2009, 12:40 PM #11A slip yoke that would fit and function would either be a gift from On High or a product of 'real' engineering. Seeing as how Mercedes never used them in this era, I'd say probably not.
But that's no huge deal - unlike a solid axle the differential stays put and the axles move, so there's no need for a slip joint. If there was a need, there'd be one in the stock system. Otherwise we'd all be eating flex discs left and right, especially the way some of us drive...
So, rereading the posts, you'd use the same yoke front and back? I think the elimination of three expensive wear items, in addition to the slack this would take out of the driveline, would be worth the effort for my 300D conversion.
(11-18-2009, 12:40 PM)CID Vicious But that's no huge deal - unlike a solid axle the differential stays put and the axles move, so there's no need for a slip joint. If there was a need, there'd be one in the stock system. Otherwise we'd all be eating flex discs left and right, especially the way some of us drive...
I think there is a flex joint in the stock system...
Doesn't it still move a little bit? There are rubber mounts for the engine/transmission, and the differential is also mounted to the subframe and/or body through a rubber mount as well. Admittedly this isn't all that much travel, but I honestly don't know if it is enough to work without a slip joint. I suppose there is always one way to find out!
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(11-18-2009, 12:40 PM)CID Vicious But that's no huge deal - unlike a solid axle the differential stays put and the axles move, so there's no need for a slip joint. If there was a need, there'd be one in the stock system. Otherwise we'd all be eating flex discs left and right, especially the way some of us drive...
I think there is a flex joint in the stock system...
Doesn't it still move a little bit? There are rubber mounts for the engine/transmission, and the differential is also mounted to the subframe and/or body through a rubber mount as well. Admittedly this isn't all that much travel, but I honestly don't know if it is enough to work without a slip joint. I suppose there is always one way to find out!
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
Hmm...what about taking it to the ultimate stage...Torque Tube! Is this very hard to accomplish, I know it's mainly used in FE/RD sports cars (RX8, Miata, Corvette, Porsche 944, etc). I doubt it would be worth the extra effort, but just to put the idea out there...
CID Vicious
11-18-2009, 01:02 PM #13I suppose the real test will be doing it. But as said, in a typical solid rear axle, the differential yoke can change height relative to the body/frame as much as six inches, thus the need for a slip joint. In the Mercedes it would be fractions of an inch, if that.
Hmm...what about taking it to the ultimate stage...Torque Tube! Is this very hard to accomplish, I know it's mainly used in FE/RD sports cars (RX8, Miata, Corvette, Porsche 944, etc). I doubt it would be worth the extra effort, but just to put the idea out there...
U joints would probably wear out pretty fast without any way to reduce vibration, twist, or slight play.
Probably makes more sense just to adapt the drive shaft to the V8 discs, instead of going to all this trouble
I feel like if you had no slip yoke, a torque tube would really be the only way to do it. Maybe you could rip one right out of a miata and lengthen it?
U joints would probably wear out pretty fast without any way to reduce vibration, twist, or slight play.
Probably makes more sense just to adapt the drive shaft to the V8 discs, instead of going to all this trouble
(11-19-2009, 10:25 PM)dropnosky I feel like if you had no slip yoke, a torque tube would really be the only way to do it. Maybe you could rip one right out of a miata and lengthen it?
U joints would probably wear out pretty fast without any way to reduce vibration, twist, or slight play.
Probably makes more sense just to adapt the drive shaft to the V8 discs, instead of going to all this trouble
They'd wear out faster than in a Mercedes with a near perfect alignment than the would on a solid rear axle vehicle where the relation between trans output and diff input is a constant variable, and by more than could possibly be in our cars? Unless you forgot to bolt your pumpkin to your subframe... If this were the case the flex discs would be tearing themselves to shreds on a regular basis. They're designed to flex torsionally, absorbing driveline shock, not to allow flex in the angles between trans and diff. Mercedes went with the two piece shaft, center bearing, and flex discs in search of refinement, not because u joints wouldn't work in this application. They'd, in fact, work better in this application than in their more common application on live rear axles, and would live up to abuse far better as well (they hold up behind V8s in full size trucks often driven by drunken rednecks, often off road...case closed).
I'd say the best source for info is the guy who's actually done it. Any way to get ahold of him? I don't see a slip joint in that picture.
CID Vicious
11-19-2009, 10:43 PM #15(11-19-2009, 10:25 PM)dropnosky I feel like if you had no slip yoke, a torque tube would really be the only way to do it. Maybe you could rip one right out of a miata and lengthen it?
U joints would probably wear out pretty fast without any way to reduce vibration, twist, or slight play.
Probably makes more sense just to adapt the drive shaft to the V8 discs, instead of going to all this trouble
They'd wear out faster than in a Mercedes with a near perfect alignment than the would on a solid rear axle vehicle where the relation between trans output and diff input is a constant variable, and by more than could possibly be in our cars? Unless you forgot to bolt your pumpkin to your subframe... If this were the case the flex discs would be tearing themselves to shreds on a regular basis. They're designed to flex torsionally, absorbing driveline shock, not to allow flex in the angles between trans and diff. Mercedes went with the two piece shaft, center bearing, and flex discs in search of refinement, not because u joints wouldn't work in this application. They'd, in fact, work better in this application than in their more common application on live rear axles, and would live up to abuse far better as well (they hold up behind V8s in full size trucks often driven by drunken rednecks, often off road...case closed).
I'd say the best source for info is the guy who's actually done it. Any way to get ahold of him? I don't see a slip joint in that picture.
I think its a great idea, I really hate those rubber discs, and also how the center u joint is un-serviceable.
I have another question though, so we know there is minor movement in this driveshaft since both ends are anchored, and this is about removing refinement and improving responsiveness.
Couldn't you just eliminate the flex discs and put in a metal blank? The shaft already has a U-joint so that kind of movement is already covered. What if you were to make a couple of aluminum discs and just make it a hard connection at either end? Wouldn't that achieve the same result without having to completely re-engineer the shaft?
makes sense, like you say, someones got to try it or the guy who's done it should post
I think its a great idea, I really hate those rubber discs, and also how the center u joint is un-serviceable.
I have another question though, so we know there is minor movement in this driveshaft since both ends are anchored, and this is about removing refinement and improving responsiveness.
Couldn't you just eliminate the flex discs and put in a metal blank? The shaft already has a U-joint so that kind of movement is already covered. What if you were to make a couple of aluminum discs and just make it a hard connection at either end? Wouldn't that achieve the same result without having to completely re-engineer the shaft?
CID Vicious
11-20-2009, 01:45 PM #17True. Easily made at a machine shop from steel plate. Would be the ticket for an existing application, I'm more thinking for converting the 300Ds. Since you're paying X amount to alter the existing shaft anyway...you know, I think it needs to get hashed out, cost of new, u jointed straight shaft vs. cost of altering a used shaft and using new stock parts.
New flexes- $90
New center support- $20
So right there you're already at least $300 in the hole. A new steel driveshaft with a slip joint costs around $300 add $100 for the Spicer yokes and you're looking at around $100-200 over the conversion cost.
I'm sure it would save money in the long run too. $20 u-joints instead of $45 flex discs and no more center support bearing.
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/steeldriveshaft.aspx
1310 Series: 3" x .083 DOM tubing with SlipYoke $240 - $265
ForcedInduction
11-20-2009, 03:02 PM
#18
Alteration- $200
New flexes- $90
New center support- $20
So right there you're already at least $300 in the hole. A new steel driveshaft with a slip joint costs around $300 add $100 for the Spicer yokes and you're looking at around $100-200 over the conversion cost.
I'm sure it would save money in the long run too. $20 u-joints instead of $45 flex discs and no more center support bearing.
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/steeldriveshaft.aspx
1310 Series: 3" x .083 DOM tubing with SlipYoke $240 - $265
![[Image: .slide_IMG_6871.JPG]](http://jason.pepas.com/photos/gm-benz-all/.slide_IMG_6871.JPG)
see the thread here: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7751
this was the option I went with for my OM617 swap:
see the thread here: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7751
(11-18-2009, 11:52 AM)Tymbrymi So does anybody know how to add a slip joint into this mix? Sounds like we would have to change the output flange of the transmission....
I did it on my G-wagen. the shafts in my earlier post have slips in them.
The G output flange fits the sedan tranny output spline just like the 3 bolt spider does.
From that, you can bolt up a G-wagen driveshaft or bolt up a custom spicer shaft with slip joint (short, shiney one in my picture).
this is the 300TD tranny with G-wagen flange on it.
(11-18-2009, 11:52 AM)Tymbrymi So does anybody know how to add a slip joint into this mix? Sounds like we would have to change the output flange of the transmission....
I did it on my G-wagen. the shafts in my earlier post have slips in them.
The G output flange fits the sedan tranny output spline just like the 3 bolt spider does.
From that, you can bolt up a G-wagen driveshaft or bolt up a custom spicer shaft with slip joint (short, shiney one in my picture).
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
(11-18-2009, 11:52 AM)Tymbrymi So does anybody know how to add a slip joint into this mix? Sounds like we would have to change the output flange of the transmission....
I did it on my G-wagen. the shafts in my earlier post have slips in them.
The G output flange fits the sedan tranny output spline just like the 3 bolt spider does.
From that, you can bolt up a G-wagen driveshaft or bolt up a custom spicer shaft with slip joint (short, shiney one in my picture).
this is the 300TD tranny with G-wagen flange on it.
(11-18-2009, 11:52 AM)Tymbrymi So does anybody know how to add a slip joint into this mix? Sounds like we would have to change the output flange of the transmission....
I did it on my G-wagen. the shafts in my earlier post have slips in them.
The G output flange fits the sedan tranny output spline just like the 3 bolt spider does.
From that, you can bolt up a G-wagen driveshaft or bolt up a custom spicer shaft with slip joint (short, shiney one in my picture).
-------------
'84 G-Wagen turbodiesel
'75 240D 4-Speed
GREASY_BEAST
11-21-2009, 12:03 PM #21The stock driveshaft has a slip joint. If you don't have a slip joint it will murder your transmission, your differential, and your U-joints. Just because the pumpkin doesn't move on the order of inches and feet, when you zoom in to half-thousandths (bearing tolerances), everything still moves a WHOLE LOT! Just throwing that out there...
He's looking at $500 bucks for the driveshaft, 3.69 ASR diff (has a LSD carrier) and a throw in 3.07 diff. All fitted in his w124.
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Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
05-17-2011, 03:30 PM #22It's for sale... already sold the trans.
He's looking at $500 bucks for the driveshaft, 3.69 ASR diff (has a LSD carrier) and a throw in 3.07 diff. All fitted in his w124.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
The trans output seal for a 16v manual trans is 65x40mm and the diff seal is 70x40mm seal. These are published seal measurements. I have yet to measure the actual O.D. of a trans output yoke and pinion flange. While you can come up with a very close match to the rear diff seal that will work with the Spicer yoke, it's a non-directional seal. I have yet to find a suitable seal for the manual trans. The MB 16v getrag trans seal (which is shared by other MB manual transmissions) is designed for a counterclockwise app and the pinion seal is for clockwise use.
After seeing a lot of slip yoke discussion on this thread, I should mention that a steel driveshaft can be made with reliable, vibration-free slip yoke integrated. This is pretty much the only option. Installing a DS without any slip yoke is plain stupid.
raysorenson
11-10-2013, 09:05 PM #23After looking at seal options for the 3104-27 yokes, I've decided that the best solution is to have the smooth seal surface of the yokes turned down to the same O.D. as the stock trans output yoke and diff yokes.
The trans output seal for a 16v manual trans is 65x40mm and the diff seal is 70x40mm seal. These are published seal measurements. I have yet to measure the actual O.D. of a trans output yoke and pinion flange. While you can come up with a very close match to the rear diff seal that will work with the Spicer yoke, it's a non-directional seal. I have yet to find a suitable seal for the manual trans. The MB 16v getrag trans seal (which is shared by other MB manual transmissions) is designed for a counterclockwise app and the pinion seal is for clockwise use.
After seeing a lot of slip yoke discussion on this thread, I should mention that a steel driveshaft can be made with reliable, vibration-free slip yoke integrated. This is pretty much the only option. Installing a DS without any slip yoke is plain stupid.
Mercedes seems to have build their cars so that the engines and diffs are exactly in line (to avoid wheel hop due to the center u-joint), I think it's an odd way to design a car. With two (not three) u-joints, you would have more flexibility in mounting the drivetrain components. You could, for example, lower the engine a bit to relocate the roll radius.
1987 Mercedes 190TD
U-Joints need to be installed in pairs, to cancel out phase differences. The odd thing is that Mercedes driveshafts have a single u-joint in the center. If you install a single joint on the front, it should be 90 degrees out of phase with the one in the center to avoid resonance.
Mercedes seems to have build their cars so that the engines and diffs are exactly in line (to avoid wheel hop due to the center u-joint), I think it's an odd way to design a car. With two (not three) u-joints, you would have more flexibility in mounting the drivetrain components. You could, for example, lower the engine a bit to relocate the roll radius.
1987 Mercedes 190TD
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thre...5#pid58525
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
12-11-2013, 08:39 PM #25Here's another option:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/Thre...5#pid58525
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
http://www.amazon.com/Strange-U1661-Tran...sbs_auto_1
This shows that it is 27 splines, but it doesn't show dimensions. Also noteworthy, it fits the TH350 transmissions, so that is a possible source for a driveshaft as well.
Still would need to use a yoke on the diff. I hope that this works out, would make the driveshaft issue for my build disappear.
EDIT:
Found this with some information, shows the diameter of the transmission shaft in question is 1.176", the yoke is 1.172."
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/slipyoke.aspx
Found a possible idea for a slip yoke in our automatics, but I'm having trouble finding some information.
http://www.amazon.com/Strange-U1661-Tran...sbs_auto_1
This shows that it is 27 splines, but it doesn't show dimensions. Also noteworthy, it fits the TH350 transmissions, so that is a possible source for a driveshaft as well.
Still would need to use a yoke on the diff. I hope that this works out, would make the driveshaft issue for my build disappear.
EDIT:
Found this with some information, shows the diameter of the transmission shaft in question is 1.176", the yoke is 1.172."
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/slipyoke.aspx
I don't think a slip yoke will work for an output shaft that is made for a yoke flange, but if you're able to get a spline match you're closer to finding a spline yoke that will fit.
raysorenson
02-07-2014, 11:06 AM #27Do you know the diameter of the 722 output shaft?
I don't think a slip yoke will work for an output shaft that is made for a yoke flange, but if you're able to get a spline match you're closer to finding a spline yoke that will fit.
My thoughts are, and someone correct me for missing the obvious, is if one can put on a u-joint flange with a new seal (mentioned above) a slip yoke should also work?
For my application, since I'm using an independent suspension, I don't really need that much travel of the yoke, I'm just wanting a bit of travel since my application is a truck application.
Well I suppose that there is only one way to find out, there are many sources for TH350 transmissions, plus 700R4s which are later upgrades for TH350 applications. All I need to do is to find a driveshaft for a TH350 at a pull-a-part and try it in a MB automatic transmission. Plentiful on both sources there. However I'd imagine that the diameter of the output shaft on the 722 is close to 1.172" since that yoke is known to work on the 722 transmissions.
My thoughts are, and someone correct me for missing the obvious, is if one can put on a u-joint flange with a new seal (mentioned above) a slip yoke should also work?
For my application, since I'm using an independent suspension, I don't really need that much travel of the yoke, I'm just wanting a bit of travel since my application is a truck application.
(02-08-2014, 12:42 PM)EmJay Well I suppose that there is only one way to find out, there are many sources for TH350 transmissions, plus 700R4s which are later upgrades for TH350 applications. All I need to do is to find a driveshaft for a TH350 at a pull-a-part and try it in a MB automatic transmission. Plentiful on both sources there. However I'd imagine that the diameter of the output shaft on the 722 is close to 1.172" since that yoke is known to work on the 722 transmissions.
My thoughts are, and someone correct me for missing the obvious, is if one can put on a u-joint flange with a new seal (mentioned above) a slip yoke should also work?
For my application, since I'm using an independent suspension, I don't really need that much travel of the yoke, I'm just wanting a bit of travel since my application is a truck application.
You cannot use a slip yoke on a Mercedes transmission. The action of bolting the output flange down holds the output shaft to the bearing rear bearing. If you do not have this bolted tight it will destroy the transmission. Even if it did not need to be bolted it is not deep enough to hold the drive shaft.
Your best bet is to simply have a two piece drive shaft make with a slip joint in the shaft. This is very common.
whipplem104
02-09-2014, 08:39 PM #29(02-08-2014, 12:42 PM)EmJay Well I suppose that there is only one way to find out, there are many sources for TH350 transmissions, plus 700R4s which are later upgrades for TH350 applications. All I need to do is to find a driveshaft for a TH350 at a pull-a-part and try it in a MB automatic transmission. Plentiful on both sources there. However I'd imagine that the diameter of the output shaft on the 722 is close to 1.172" since that yoke is known to work on the 722 transmissions.
My thoughts are, and someone correct me for missing the obvious, is if one can put on a u-joint flange with a new seal (mentioned above) a slip yoke should also work?
For my application, since I'm using an independent suspension, I don't really need that much travel of the yoke, I'm just wanting a bit of travel since my application is a truck application.
You cannot use a slip yoke on a Mercedes transmission. The action of bolting the output flange down holds the output shaft to the bearing rear bearing. If you do not have this bolted tight it will destroy the transmission. Even if it did not need to be bolted it is not deep enough to hold the drive shaft.
Your best bet is to simply have a two piece drive shaft make with a slip joint in the shaft. This is very common.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
05-04-2015, 08:19 PM #31SO guys, been thinking lately about how nice a straight driveshaft would be (with a slip yoke in the middle of course), anybody know if the spicer yoke will fit in my trans? I swapped a 4-speed in my 300D a while ago and the driveshaft I have is just a little too long and kind of causes vibrations and stuff and I figured if I'm gonna get it shortened I might as well just get a new one made, and this seems like a better option with the spicer yokes and whatnot
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
That is what I intend to do, unless it would be a bad idea for some reason. Otherwise, it seems it would be easier and cheaper to do it that way.
Using a U-joint connected slip yoke similar to this.
![[Image: 100130-1-KIT_trail-gear_heavy-duty-driveline-kit_ID.jpg]](https://www.trail-gear.com/TG/prodInfo/image/100130-1-KIT_trail-gear_heavy-duty-driveline-kit_ID.jpg)
The main thing I am concerned about is that since the center bearing will be eliminated, the entire weight of the driveshaft will be supported by the transmission and differential. Even with an aluminum driveshaft, there will most likely be more weight hanging off the transmission. I am not too worried about the differential side, but I am hoping the transmission would be able to handle the extra weight without issues.
Irony.cc
Instead of putting the slip yoke in the middle, has anybody attempted putting it right after the transmission or before the differential, connected directly to the U-joint?
That is what I intend to do, unless it would be a bad idea for some reason. Otherwise, it seems it would be easier and cheaper to do it that way.
Using a U-joint connected slip yoke similar to this.
The main thing I am concerned about is that since the center bearing will be eliminated, the entire weight of the driveshaft will be supported by the transmission and differential. Even with an aluminum driveshaft, there will most likely be more weight hanging off the transmission. I am not too worried about the differential side, but I am hoping the transmission would be able to handle the extra weight without issues.
Irony.cc
(05-04-2015, 11:40 PM)Matej Instead of putting the slip yoke in the middle, has anybody attempted putting it right after the transmission or before the differential, connected directly to the U-joint?
That is what I intend to do, unless it would be a bad idea for some reason. Otherwise, it seems it would be easier and cheaper to do it that way.
The main thing I am concerned about is that since the center bearing will be eliminated, the entire weight of the driveshaft will be supported by the transmission and differential. Even with an aluminum driveshaft, there will most likely be more weight hanging off the transmission. I am not too worried about the differential side, but I am hoping the transmission would be able to handle the extra weight without issues.
I don't see any issue. One piece drive shafts are used in many applications and even in lots where a two piece is replaced with a one piece.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
05-07-2015, 02:42 AM #33(05-04-2015, 11:40 PM)Matej Instead of putting the slip yoke in the middle, has anybody attempted putting it right after the transmission or before the differential, connected directly to the U-joint?
That is what I intend to do, unless it would be a bad idea for some reason. Otherwise, it seems it would be easier and cheaper to do it that way.
The main thing I am concerned about is that since the center bearing will be eliminated, the entire weight of the driveshaft will be supported by the transmission and differential. Even with an aluminum driveshaft, there will most likely be more weight hanging off the transmission. I am not too worried about the differential side, but I am hoping the transmission would be able to handle the extra weight without issues.
I don't see any issue. One piece drive shafts are used in many applications and even in lots where a two piece is replaced with a one piece.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
(05-04-2015, 08:19 PM)sassparilla_kid SO guys, been thinking lately about how nice a straight driveshaft would be (with a slip yoke in the middle of course), anybody know if the spicer yoke will fit in my trans? I swapped a 4-speed in my 300D a while ago and the driveshaft I have is just a little too long and kind of causes vibrations and stuff and I figured if I'm gonna get it shortened I might as well just get a new one made, and this seems like a better option with the spicer yokes and whatnot
Think it will. isn't the yoke on the diff and trans the same part? that's what I understood from previous post on this thread.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
05-07-2015, 02:44 AM #34(05-04-2015, 08:19 PM)sassparilla_kid SO guys, been thinking lately about how nice a straight driveshaft would be (with a slip yoke in the middle of course), anybody know if the spicer yoke will fit in my trans? I swapped a 4-speed in my 300D a while ago and the driveshaft I have is just a little too long and kind of causes vibrations and stuff and I figured if I'm gonna get it shortened I might as well just get a new one made, and this seems like a better option with the spicer yokes and whatnot
Think it will. isn't the yoke on the diff and trans the same part? that's what I understood from previous post on this thread.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
![[Image: propshaft031_zps396cf3f4.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/propshaft031_zps396cf3f4.jpg.html)
![[Image: propshaft032_zps32f02000.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/propshaft032_zps32f02000.jpg.html)
![[Image: propshaft017_zps9ba9b32d.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/propshaft017_zps9ba9b32d.jpg.html)
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