w123 project advice
w123 project advice
I am knew to this forum and to diesels. I will be buying a w123 in the near future and plan on doing a performance build with it. I was looking at some threads and saw that the stock om617 engine has some potential but an om603 or om606 would be much better. I would want to get between 250-300 hp out of whichever engine I end up using. Does the om617 have the ability to deliver this power? If so, what modifications would be necessary? I know an upgraded turbo, injection pump, and intake manifold would be necessary to increase the power. I assume I would also need to do something to the exhaust. If the om617 does have the potential, what turbo and injection pump would be ideal? If the om617 is not good enough then I would consider swapping the engine. Has the om603 or om606 swap into a w123 been done often and are there any particular challenges in doing this? If I were to use the om603 or om606, what upgrades would be necessary to get 250-300 hp? I know that swapping an engine would cost more but if I am willing to do the work myself how much more would the swap be than just sticking with the original engine?
Thanks
morfordoberst
08-01-2016, 04:41 PM #1Hi,
I am knew to this forum and to diesels. I will be buying a w123 in the near future and plan on doing a performance build with it. I was looking at some threads and saw that the stock om617 engine has some potential but an om603 or om606 would be much better. I would want to get between 250-300 hp out of whichever engine I end up using. Does the om617 have the ability to deliver this power? If so, what modifications would be necessary? I know an upgraded turbo, injection pump, and intake manifold would be necessary to increase the power. I assume I would also need to do something to the exhaust. If the om617 does have the potential, what turbo and injection pump would be ideal? If the om617 is not good enough then I would consider swapping the engine. Has the om603 or om606 swap into a w123 been done often and are there any particular challenges in doing this? If I were to use the om603 or om606, what upgrades would be necessary to get 250-300 hp? I know that swapping an engine would cost more but if I am willing to do the work myself how much more would the swap be than just sticking with the original engine?
Thanks
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
If that is your end goal the 617 will be fine but honestly a 603 is so much easier to make power and 606 is even more better.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
I do admit, more power would be fun at times
1987 Mazda B2200 "outlaw" **planning phase** Chevy 283, Power Pack heads, Edelbrock carb and intake, turbo 350 trans
1985 Mercedes 300D stock for now
Not that there is anything wrong with such a desire, but why do you want or need 250-300HP? I DD a w123 with a OM 617 turbo in Alpharetta and Atlanta traffic just fine. Deleted the ALDA and got a manual boost controller (set to 14psi max)
I do admit, more power would be fun at times
1987 Mazda B2200 "outlaw" **planning phase** Chevy 283, Power Pack heads, Edelbrock carb and intake, turbo 350 trans
1985 Mercedes 300D stock for now
(08-01-2016, 09:37 PM)EmJay Not that there is anything wrong with such a desire, but why do you want or need 250-300HP? I DD a w123 with a OM 617 turbo in Alpharetta and Atlanta traffic just fine. Deleted the ALDA and got a manual boost controller (set to 14psi max)
I do admit, more power would be fun at times
Well I want that much power because I will be doing either a drift build or a track build. More power makes either of those builds better. And of course, it would be more fun on the street too
morfordoberst
08-01-2016, 09:53 PM #4(08-01-2016, 09:37 PM)EmJay Not that there is anything wrong with such a desire, but why do you want or need 250-300HP? I DD a w123 with a OM 617 turbo in Alpharetta and Atlanta traffic just fine. Deleted the ALDA and got a manual boost controller (set to 14psi max)
I do admit, more power would be fun at times
Well I want that much power because I will be doing either a drift build or a track build. More power makes either of those builds better. And of course, it would be more fun on the street too
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
If that is your goals a different car may be better.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
(08-02-2016, 06:20 AM)TurboTim If that is your goals a different car may be better.
Why? and what alternative would you recommend?
morfordoberst
08-02-2016, 03:12 PM #6(08-02-2016, 06:20 AM)TurboTim If that is your goals a different car may be better.
Why? and what alternative would you recommend?
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
Something with better chassis to start with or a lot of fabbing would be in order or maybe look into 90's benz or even a 190D would be cool.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
Both of these chassis' are light years ahead of the W123 as far as extracting performance.
If you like the diesels, I would suggest starting with a '91-'93 W124 with the OM602 and "ASD", which basically means it has an LSD. This engine will easily make your power goals and you'll have plenty of room for a thick intercooler.
raysorenson
08-03-2016, 08:53 AM #8Yes. The W201's and W124's are good platforms for what you want. They're basically the same, suspension-wise, and share many components but the W124 has a longer wheel base and more distance between the control arms to increase track. The W201 will be light but will take more work to fit an inline 6cyl, the W124 will be heavier but has more room for the I6 engines, which are common in the US.
Both of these chassis' are light years ahead of the W123 as far as extracting performance.
If you like the diesels, I would suggest starting with a '91-'93 W124 with the OM602 and "ASD", which basically means it has an LSD. This engine will easily make your power goals and you'll have plenty of room for a thick intercooler.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Drive a w123, try to power brake it, and take a turn kind of fast and it will answer all your questions lol. Nothing wrong with the cars, they ride smooth, but like everyone else said, too much would go into making one a drift or track car.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
morfordoberst
08-03-2016, 11:31 PM #11I like the look of the w123. I understand that it isn't the most up to date car but I think it would be a fun project to turn one into a performance car. This car is also going to be my daily so it isn't that important to me to have the best set up. I mainly want something that I like the look of but can also do something on the track. If I do end up doing a drift build, which is what I'm leaning towards, then I will weld the diff. I wouldn't need the LSD diff in that case. Haven't people put the 603 or 606 into the w123? Like does it fit? If I do end up being stubborn are the 602/603/605/606 all good engines to swap into the w123 based on my power goals and available space? By reading through other people's threads I'm getting the sense that the 617 requires a lot of work to meet my goals which would make me want to do a swap.
OM606 fits, so 5-cilinders fit for sure...
602 603 605 606 are better engines.
I also have a W123... I will put an OM602.982 in it. Not very much liked in this line-pump-for-life forum, but we will see what we can do
Evgeniy1987
08-04-2016, 08:26 AM #12People put effort into 617 because they like it and they have it already in the car.
OM606 fits, so 5-cilinders fit for sure...
602 603 605 606 are better engines.
I also have a W123... I will put an OM602.982 in it. Not very much liked in this line-pump-for-life forum, but we will see what we can do
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
Have you ever driven a welded diff for extended time on the street? If your brain doesnt explode from people staring at you everytime you pull into a parking spot your wallet will because when I had mine it broke both axles, killed 1 wheel bearing amd destroyed every bushing in the back. I did 1 winter and bought another used diff. Made my 190D driveable in winter though.
87 300SDL OM606 swapped HE351VE 722.633 swapped, Crower cams, KM valvesprings
76 300TD custom lots of stuff
06 Mercedes CL65 AMG 619 WHP, http://TurboTims.com
morfordoberst
08-04-2016, 12:10 PM #14I have never had to drive a welded diff for an extended time. I could imagine that it would be somewhat ridiculous and that it wouldn't be good for the rear end. Did the W124 with the "ASD" ever come with a 603? And which version of the W124 is the best?
raysorenson
08-04-2016, 03:10 PM #15ASD only came on the 124.128, which was a 602. The '87 603, the only year a 603 was offered in this chassis in the U.S., is kind of a POS. Lots of issues. Heads crack, head gaskets leak, noisy lifters, unsuitable exhaust manifold for turbo swaps. The 602 in 124.128 had gotten most of the improvements the later 2 valve diesels were going to get.
(08-04-2016, 03:10 PM)raysorenson ASD only came on the 124.128, which was a 602. The '87 603, the only year a 603 was offered in this chassis in the U.S., is kind of a POS. Lots of issues. Heads crack, head gaskets leak, noisy lifters, unsuitable exhaust manifold for turbo swaps. The 602 in 124.128 had gotten most of the improvements the later 2 valve diesels were going to get.
What engine came after the 603 in the W124? I did find a W124 with the 603 for sale with a #24 head, which if I remember correctly is a good head. Would that be something to look into getting or does the engine still have too many problems? Also, with the 602, because it is a 2.5 liter, does it still have the potential to pretty easily get to the 300 hp range? I would assume so because like you said, it had some of the improvements already.
morfordoberst
08-04-2016, 04:48 PM #16(08-04-2016, 03:10 PM)raysorenson ASD only came on the 124.128, which was a 602. The '87 603, the only year a 603 was offered in this chassis in the U.S., is kind of a POS. Lots of issues. Heads crack, head gaskets leak, noisy lifters, unsuitable exhaust manifold for turbo swaps. The 602 in 124.128 had gotten most of the improvements the later 2 valve diesels were going to get.
What engine came after the 603 in the W124? I did find a W124 with the 603 for sale with a #24 head, which if I remember correctly is a good head. Would that be something to look into getting or does the engine still have too many problems? Also, with the 602, because it is a 2.5 liter, does it still have the potential to pretty easily get to the 300 hp range? I would assume so because like you said, it had some of the improvements already.
A #24 603 sounds good but I bet they want stupid money for it. You'll also have to source an exhaust manifold if you want another turbo.
Check out Duncansport's 124.128 build thread http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...light=300d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jXb5SN9...e=youtu.be
raysorenson
08-04-2016, 05:52 PM #17The 602 came after the 603, then the NA 606 in '95.
A #24 603 sounds good but I bet they want stupid money for it. You'll also have to source an exhaust manifold if you want another turbo.
Check out Duncansport's 124.128 build thread http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...light=300d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jXb5SN9...e=youtu.be
(08-04-2016, 05:52 PM)raysorenson The 602 came after the 603, then the NA 606 in '95.
A #24 603 sounds good but I bet they want stupid money for it. You'll also have to source an exhaust manifold if you want another turbo.
Check out Duncansport's 124.128 build thread http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...light=300d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jXb5SN9...e=youtu.be
Maybe it wouldn't be worth it because of the manifold but they want $4700 for it and it has 190k miles. I'm too new to know if that is a ridiculous price but I would prefer to spend less on the actual car. What is a good price for a 124.128? Duncansport's build looks pretty amazing.
morfordoberst
08-04-2016, 10:06 PM #18(08-04-2016, 05:52 PM)raysorenson The 602 came after the 603, then the NA 606 in '95.
A #24 603 sounds good but I bet they want stupid money for it. You'll also have to source an exhaust manifold if you want another turbo.
Check out Duncansport's 124.128 build thread http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...light=300d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jXb5SN9...e=youtu.be
Maybe it wouldn't be worth it because of the manifold but they want $4700 for it and it has 190k miles. I'm too new to know if that is a ridiculous price but I would prefer to spend less on the actual car. What is a good price for a 124.128? Duncansport's build looks pretty amazing.
You could get a W123, a W124 or a 201 AND a W210 OM606 turbo parts car for 4700.
raysorenson
08-05-2016, 06:24 AM #19Disclosure time: I've got a sweet one with ASD, fresh paint and evap core for $2500. srsly, lol.
You could get a W123, a W124 or a 201 AND a W210 OM606 turbo parts car for 4700.
morfordoberst
08-05-2016, 11:11 AM #20Hmmm...that's an interesting deal. I'll have to think about it.
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