Om606 running on 5 cylinders.
Om606 running on 5 cylinders.
Ive only torn it apart by taking off the intake manifold. While running, it has exhaust coming from the air intake port, I believe its cylinder 3 but I have to confirm.
Reading on other threads, there has been mention of valves being sunk due to excessive wear in the seat and valve. This causes the lifter to no longer have the hydraulic travel it originally had. Do you guys have any input, I wont be able to work on it until this weekend and I wanted to get some insight before then. Thanks in Advance, Christian.
chrisbrixp
10-25-2016, 09:56 PM #1I have a 95 E300D om606na with about 260k miles on it. Im under the impression it may have a stuck or bottomed out Lifter.
Ive only torn it apart by taking off the intake manifold. While running, it has exhaust coming from the air intake port, I believe its cylinder 3 but I have to confirm.
Reading on other threads, there has been mention of valves being sunk due to excessive wear in the seat and valve. This causes the lifter to no longer have the hydraulic travel it originally had. Do you guys have any input, I wont be able to work on it until this weekend and I wanted to get some insight before then. Thanks in Advance, Christian.
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
I've never even seen an OM606 yet alone worked on one but the amount of forum threads I see with this same issue leads me to believe it's a common problem normally caused by a bit of carbon lodged between valve and seat.
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Another thing to mention; once I discovered the dead cylinder, I drove it home about 15 miles. This didn't clear anything, but it seems to vary on how bad it misses.
Side note, I had just changed the oil. I alway change every 3.5 to 4k miles and I reconnected the exhaust from the resonator back an hour prior to the problem. Back pressure?
Oil used was delo 15w-40. Viscosity issues took out the lifter?
Amsoil website said 15w40 was good above 5°f.
I'll take a look for soot but I would suspect it to clear driving it 15 miles through grades on the highway.
chrisbrixp
10-26-2016, 02:37 PM #4I have to mention, the idle had an uneven fell to it for about the latest 5k miles. Even if the engine is at full temp, it would have a slight miss. I assumed it was the injectors needed to be rebuilt because I had no idea on the maintenance from the previous owner.
Another thing to mention; once I discovered the dead cylinder, I drove it home about 15 miles. This didn't clear anything, but it seems to vary on how bad it misses.
Side note, I had just changed the oil. I alway change every 3.5 to 4k miles and I reconnected the exhaust from the resonator back an hour prior to the problem. Back pressure?
Oil used was delo 15w-40. Viscosity issues took out the lifter?
Amsoil website said 15w40 was good above 5°f.
I'll take a look for soot but I would suspect it to clear driving it 15 miles through grades on the highway.
This video shows and engine running exactly like mine. It may also be the same cylinder. Number 2 stated in the discription. Engine was removed and never stated what the pproblem was.
I read that cylinder 6 is most susceptible to this issue, and only on the n/a versions.
Do these engine have any known issues of lifters freezing solid like vw tdi 1.9 engines?
chrisbrixp
10-26-2016, 03:33 PM #6youtube.com/watch?v=EhyVh_vh4qw
This video shows and engine running exactly like mine. It may also be the same cylinder. Number 2 stated in the discription. Engine was removed and never stated what the pproblem was.
I read that cylinder 6 is most susceptible to this issue, and only on the n/a versions.
Do these engine have any known issues of lifters freezing solid like vw tdi 1.9 engines?
have a check on that by bleeding out the lines, fuel should come out in idle, in bursts. same in all 6.
good luck
FD,
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The 4 valve IDI MB engines last for many km and many abuse, like its rather your car rust to the boné than the engine quit, but u may have a combination of many things , even a dead cylinder , u can start by check the lifters and injectors. if the simptom persists look at the pre cups, wich is something that happens , the ball inside the precup fails and the cylinder dies, in very worst cases the precup melts and the ball clogs the throat and the result is a dead cylinder. after that is compression test .... the IP may also have problems in the elemento being stuck on the barrel, something common on the engines used to run os Vegetable oil, and other diesel replacements....
have a check on that by bleeding out the lines, fuel should come out in idle, in bursts. same in all 6.
good luck
FD,
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How Do you remove The prechamber?
chrisbrixp
10-26-2016, 04:01 PM #8It seems to make sense, but the only thing is the compression from intake valve. If the prechamber failed, will it cause a exhaust leak through the intake port?
How Do you remove The prechamber?
if the ball is there , the pre cup is fine.
when the problema is the lifters the engine spits compression out throug the inlet well, with the intake runner out.
injectors may fail, but IDI is very uncommon to fail like that...
FD,
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u dont need to , u can see from the injector well, the ball is just below the injector nozzle.
if the ball is there , the pre cup is fine.
when the problema is the lifters the engine spits compression out throug the inlet well, with the intake runner out.
injectors may fail, but IDI is very uncommon to fail like that...
FD,
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Thanks for the input.
chrisbrixp
10-26-2016, 10:35 PM #10I'm suspecting the lifter. I have 2 engine I can rob parts, so we'll see what comes out of it saturday.
Thanks for the input.
They differ from some other manufacturer´s due to the simple fact that they can be pressurized and may loose pressure automatically, and even when the valves open by to much EGP they return to the right position almost right away.
If the source or the failure is the lifter, just remove it from the well , open , clean , fill with oil and install.
The tappet is composed of two parts , the hyd chamber and the valve, pay attention to the valve, it must not leak anything.
good luck ,
FD,
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MB Hyd tappets , here comonly refered as lifters , can be overhauled...
They differ from some other manufacturer´s due to the simple fact that they can be pressurized and may loose pressure automatically, and even when the valves open by to much EGP they return to the right position almost right away.
If the source or the failure is the lifter, just remove it from the well , open , clean , fill with oil and install.
The tappet is composed of two parts , the hyd chamber and the valve, pay attention to the valve, it must not leak anything.
good luck ,
FD,
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I guess at this point I'll have to pull the tappets, I'm curious if I can measure the valve stem protrusion and compare it to other valves for reference to determine if I have a sunk valve.
chrisbrixp
10-27-2016, 10:17 AM #13Okay, I've read the thread related to the video posted above. The owner of that engine ended up selling it before repair but one of the comments on that thread by member "e300tsc" stating that tappets have a tendency to stick and to Exercise the tappet in a vise.
I guess at this point I'll have to pull the tappets, I'm curious if I can measure the valve stem protrusion and compare it to other valves for reference to determine if I have a sunk valve.
if u remove the tappets , u can desassembe it by hand with a plyer, clean and check the valve.
FD,
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MB valves don´t sink , they close in valve rings (valve seats) , usually the ring breaks and goes away sometimes kiling the cylinder for good others just starts to rattle ... that can be checked by compression test or leak testing the cylinder.... either way if that was the case the car would smoke whyte really bad....
if u remove the tappets , u can desassembe it by hand with a plyer, clean and check the valve.
FD,
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The tappet on that cylinder looked like it sat a little lower than the rest. But nothing that would stand out. I plan on disassembling the tappet and clean any varnish that may have accumulated and put it back together. If it continues to miss, I'll pull the head off and get it rebuilt.
I just have to ask, all the tappet's were deflated. Is there a possibility that the oil in the bad valve over pumps with oil and allows it to stay open when it should? Like make the check valve isn't releasing the oil?
chrisbrixp
10-29-2016, 03:27 PM #15Soooo..... I pulled the valve cover off today. I didnt notice any damage in particular.
The tappet on that cylinder looked like it sat a little lower than the rest. But nothing that would stand out. I plan on disassembling the tappet and clean any varnish that may have accumulated and put it back together. If it continues to miss, I'll pull the head off and get it rebuilt.
I just have to ask, all the tappet's were deflated. Is there a possibility that the oil in the bad valve over pumps with oil and allows it to stay open when it should? Like make the check valve isn't releasing the oil?
(10-29-2016, 03:27 PM)chrisbrixp Soooo..... I pulled the valve cover off today. I didnt notice any damage in particular.
The tappet on that cylinder looked like it sat a little lower than the rest. But nothing that would stand out. I plan on disassembling the tappet and clean any varnish that may have accumulated and put it back together. If it continues to miss, I'll pull the head off and get it rebuilt.
I just have to ask, all the tappet's were deflated. Is there a possibility that the oil in the bad valve over pumps with oil and allows it to stay open when it should? Like make the check valve isn't releasing the oil?
No, the problem with the hydraulic tappets is they fill with oil during first start and that same oil does not exit the lifter for the duration of engine life, therefore despite regular oil changes, the oil in the tappet gets old and sticky and the ball bearing and spring type check valve within the tappet starts to leak and leaks down oil pressure causing the tappety noise and may lead to bad running as you describe.
With the cam cover off, you can use a (non metallic) rod to force each tappet down by hand, any which are spongy or allow an air gap between the lobe and the tappet will be how you identify a bad tappet..
Hope this helps, I have the same situation,
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(10-29-2016, 03:27 PM)chrisbrixp Soooo..... I pulled the valve cover off today. I didnt notice any damage in particular.
The tappet on that cylinder looked like it sat a little lower than the rest. But nothing that would stand out. I plan on disassembling the tappet and clean any varnish that may have accumulated and put it back together. If it continues to miss, I'll pull the head off and get it rebuilt.
I just have to ask, all the tappet's were deflated. Is there a possibility that the oil in the bad valve over pumps with oil and allows it to stay open when it should? Like make the check valve isn't releasing the oil?
No, the problem with the hydraulic tappets is they fill with oil during first start and that same oil does not exit the lifter for the duration of engine life, therefore despite regular oil changes, the oil in the tappet gets old and sticky and the ball bearing and spring type check valve within the tappet starts to leak and leaks down oil pressure causing the tappety noise and may lead to bad running as you describe.
With the cam cover off, you can use a (non metallic) rod to force each tappet down by hand, any which are spongy or allow an air gap between the lobe and the tappet will be how you identify a bad tappet..
Hope this helps, I have the same situation,
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOqAdvkJPJY&t=129s
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
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