BEST AMERICAN DIESEL DONOR ENGINE?
BEST AMERICAN DIESEL DONOR ENGINE?
50harleyrider
12-08-2016, 08:27 AM #1The OM606.962 is well understood and has options for mechanical and VE IPs. Bendtsens also provides tranny adapters. However it is long and can be a PIA to shoehorn into most newer American trucks and Jeeps. I've recently been there. This leads me to the options of the 3.0 Mercedes V6 Sprinter engine and the Ford Transit Connect 3.2 I5 (available in NA as of 2015). Both of these engines will be much more 'fit friendly' and available in NA. Chrysler and soon Ford will be offering their 1/2 ton trucks with 3L V6 diesels so I'm leaning more toward the V6 Sprinter engine for my next conversion.They both require ECUs so are they really good options? The 2017 Ford and Chrysler trucks will be equipped with 10 and 8 speed trannys respectively so it will be a while before us crazy converters figure those out. I hope this thread is OK in the Engine forum.
the 60X familly besides beeing so strong can be fitted to any , i mean any car u can imagine , even the latest w212 model, cause u can either use mechanichal control , or use a mix of the new car electronics ...
something u can´t do easyly with the replacement 613/648 cause ECU issues , unless some fella in the mean time develop a way of fooling the original Engine software.
installing a 606 in the latest ford truck , is the most easy thing u can imagine , installing the latest ford diesel in a w123 is the worst nightmare u can have.
my opinion , worth what it worth..
FD,
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The 606 engine along with its fellas couterparts 03 and 05 , but theres more small ones , are the last build to stand engines , the 642 u´ll find in the sprinter is a all aluminium engine and known for having issues.... 648 or 629 are the last US sold engines that u can relly but the same common problem , ECU and common rail.
the 60X familly besides beeing so strong can be fitted to any , i mean any car u can imagine , even the latest w212 model, cause u can either use mechanichal control , or use a mix of the new car electronics ...
something u can´t do easyly with the replacement 613/648 cause ECU issues , unless some fella in the mean time develop a way of fooling the original Engine software.
installing a 606 in the latest ford truck , is the most easy thing u can imagine , installing the latest ford diesel in a w123 is the worst nightmare u can have.
my opinion , worth what it worth..
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
50harleyrider
12-08-2016, 02:51 PM #3If it weren't so long I would agree with you. I see why everyone is using V6 now. The Ford I5 power stroke is cast iron so might be a good option and is 3.2 but it has hydraulic high pressure injection pump which might be a nightmare to control on a conversion.
you can always stroke a 602/605. that'll give you a 2.9 thats a inline 5 not 6. i dont think it would be a problem on wrangler until the v6 models, and then some radiator trickyness could probably be done to get the 6 in there. personally id just do a 605, and stroke it if i really wanted the displacement. theres also a 601 or 604(4 cyl), but i dont think the 604 came to america, and the 601 was never offered here factory turbo.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
A fellow on competition diesel is putting a BMW diesel in a ram50, and 4bts are always popular to swap but are fairly heavy and slow revving
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Evgeniy1987
12-09-2016, 04:18 AM #6OM604 would not be bad either.. 300+ HP must be doable, if done just like the 500+ HP OM606..
The sprinter 612-647 is an available option but if you are going to do one get the 647. You still have to deal with the ecu side of things. I do not know for sure if the ecu will work with the stuff I am doing with the 648. But I would imagine it would. I have an ecu and can hook up and see if my stuff recognizes it.
The 642 is a great engine if you do not mind replacing the timing chain and the oil cooler seals yourself every 60k miles. And the other miriad of things that go wrong with them.
I would wait and see what is available from the U.S. manufacturers if you want modern common rail and a shorter engine. The GM 4cyl diesel has been out for a couple of years and you could use it.
whipplem104
12-09-2016, 09:21 AM #7I think he was talking about engines available in the U.S. market. In 5 cyl. engines we had 617, 601-602, and the 612-647. No 604s came here.
The sprinter 612-647 is an available option but if you are going to do one get the 647. You still have to deal with the ecu side of things. I do not know for sure if the ecu will work with the stuff I am doing with the 648. But I would imagine it would. I have an ecu and can hook up and see if my stuff recognizes it.
The 642 is a great engine if you do not mind replacing the timing chain and the oil cooler seals yourself every 60k miles. And the other miriad of things that go wrong with them.
I would wait and see what is available from the U.S. manufacturers if you want modern common rail and a shorter engine. The GM 4cyl diesel has been out for a couple of years and you could use it.
The 6.4 Powerstroke has factory compound turbos and once you remove the catalyst+egr and tune it you've got nearly 600 horsepower from stock everything, just needs an exhaust and a bigger air filter (a tuned 6.4 will turn on the service air filter light every time you floor it on the stock air box)
Baldur Gislason
I'm torn between the Duramax and the Ford 6.4 Powerstroke. Both incredible engines, but they're also too heavy for anything smaller than the trucks they come in.
The 6.4 Powerstroke has factory compound turbos and once you remove the catalyst+egr and tune it you've got nearly 600 horsepower from stock everything, just needs an exhaust and a bigger air filter (a tuned 6.4 will turn on the service air filter light every time you floor it on the stock air box)
Baldur Gislason
I'm bias though.
Idk if this qualifies as one of the best but the 2.8L VM Motori in '05 -'07 Jeep Liberty should also be considered. It's an inline 4 cylinder, common rail with a variable geometry turbo. As stock it offers 295 lbft 163 hp & 30 mpg and is mated to a 545RFE auto. Theoretically, it should bolt up to a Tremec TR-6060 6-speed manual.
I'm bias though.
I am getting ready to mate one to the gm 6 speed transmission and start working on swaps for suvs like the landcruiser and the jeeps and land rovers.
4600 rpm. 367lb/ft of torque and 200hp. In a small package. Front and rear sump capabilities for the oil pan and it gets great fuel economy.
Hell it even starts with no glow system down to about 30f degrees or less.
And they have gotten fairly cheap to buy. I am seeing them consistantly for around 2500.00. So I think you could get a complete motor with accessories for around 3500-4000. Put an ecu package in at around 2500.00 and you have a turn key setup for a pretty reasonable price.
whipplem104
12-09-2016, 08:37 PM #11I just do not get the truck diesel engine thing. Cummins, Ford etc. They are low revving and do not make that much power in stock form. The om648 is a way better platform for a small truck or passenger vehicle. It has more torque than you need unless you are towing alot and need a truck anyways.
I am getting ready to mate one to the gm 6 speed transmission and start working on swaps for suvs like the landcruiser and the jeeps and land rovers.
4600 rpm. 367lb/ft of torque and 200hp. In a small package. Front and rear sump capabilities for the oil pan and it gets great fuel economy.
Hell it even starts with no glow system down to about 30f degrees or less.
And they have gotten fairly cheap to buy. I am seeing them consistantly for around 2500.00. So I think you could get a complete motor with accessories for around 3500-4000. Put an ecu package in at around 2500.00 and you have a turn key setup for a pretty reasonable price.
(12-09-2016, 08:37 PM)whipplem104 ... Put an ecu package in at around 2500.00 and you have a turn key setup for a pretty reasonable price.What ECU would work? Can that ECU be made to mate up with existing 722.6 TCU, instrument cluster, ABS, etc? The devil is in the details.
50harleyrider
12-10-2016, 08:53 AM #13All great engines for sure. I should have titled this thread more specific to shorter than I6 engines ie I5 and V6 for space considerations. Sounds like Baldur has some ecu challenges in front of him to get the common rails aftermarket controlled.
(12-09-2016, 11:08 PM)AlanMcR(12-09-2016, 08:37 PM)whipplem104 ... Put an ecu package in at around 2500.00 and you have a turn key setup for a pretty reasonable price.What ECU would work? Can that ECU be made to mate up with existing 722.6 TCU, instrument cluster, ABS, etc? The devil is in the details.
I use the factory one. And yes it works with the 722.6. But if you are asking if it can mate with another car manufacturers systems then out of the box no. But that can be done it is just expensive. If you mean in a Mercedes that did not come with the engine and you want to swap it in. It depends on the model and year it was made but the answer is yes. Because it is factory. You just have to wire it properly and virgin ecu and marry with sds like any factory setup. Sometimes you have to do things like recode other computers which can really be a pain if you do not want any lights on.
whipplem104
12-10-2016, 10:09 AM #14(12-09-2016, 11:08 PM)AlanMcR(12-09-2016, 08:37 PM)whipplem104 ... Put an ecu package in at around 2500.00 and you have a turn key setup for a pretty reasonable price.What ECU would work? Can that ECU be made to mate up with existing 722.6 TCU, instrument cluster, ABS, etc? The devil is in the details.
I use the factory one. And yes it works with the 722.6. But if you are asking if it can mate with another car manufacturers systems then out of the box no. But that can be done it is just expensive. If you mean in a Mercedes that did not come with the engine and you want to swap it in. It depends on the model and year it was made but the answer is yes. Because it is factory. You just have to wire it properly and virgin ecu and marry with sds like any factory setup. Sometimes you have to do things like recode other computers which can really be a pain if you do not want any lights on.
A Perkins 4.236T wouldn't be bad, but probably similarly as bulky as a 4bt
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Not to forget the little VW tdi engines either, but they are just that, little. Not much displacement depending on what your application is.
A Perkins 4.236T wouldn't be bad, but probably similarly as bulky as a 4bt
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(12-09-2016, 08:37 PM)whipplem104 I just do not get the truck diesel engine thing. Cummins, Ford etc. They are low revving and do not make that much power in stock form. The om648 is a way better platform for a small truck or passenger vehicle. It has more torque than you need unless you are towing alot and need a truck anyways.
I am getting ready to mate one to the gm 6 speed transmission and start working on swaps for suvs like the landcruiser and the jeeps and land rovers.
4600 rpm. 367lb/ft of torque and 200hp. In a small package. Front and rear sump capabilities for the oil pan and it gets great fuel economy.
Hell it even starts with no glow system down to about 30f degrees or less.
And they have gotten fairly cheap to buy. I am seeing them consistantly for around 2500.00. So I think you could get a complete motor with accessories for around 3500-4000. Put an ecu package in at around 2500.00 and you have a turn key setup for a pretty reasonable price.
It just depends on what you're doing, and how it's geared. I've driven an F350 dually with tuned Ford 7.3 with all the goodies(including methanol injection) OMG it was awesome. You could pull anything, and accelartion was no problem, you just don't have any top speed worth talking about.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-11-2016, 11:43 AM #16(12-09-2016, 08:37 PM)whipplem104 I just do not get the truck diesel engine thing. Cummins, Ford etc. They are low revving and do not make that much power in stock form. The om648 is a way better platform for a small truck or passenger vehicle. It has more torque than you need unless you are towing alot and need a truck anyways.
I am getting ready to mate one to the gm 6 speed transmission and start working on swaps for suvs like the landcruiser and the jeeps and land rovers.
4600 rpm. 367lb/ft of torque and 200hp. In a small package. Front and rear sump capabilities for the oil pan and it gets great fuel economy.
Hell it even starts with no glow system down to about 30f degrees or less.
And they have gotten fairly cheap to buy. I am seeing them consistantly for around 2500.00. So I think you could get a complete motor with accessories for around 3500-4000. Put an ecu package in at around 2500.00 and you have a turn key setup for a pretty reasonable price.
It just depends on what you're doing, and how it's geared. I've driven an F350 dually with tuned Ford 7.3 with all the goodies(including methanol injection) OMG it was awesome. You could pull anything, and accelartion was no problem, you just don't have any top speed worth talking about.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Also, unloaded, my 2005 International 4300 (CDL 6sp MT) can keep up with traffic effortlessly. That thing has a 2500RPM redline
1987 Mazda B2200 "outlaw" **planning phase** Chevy 283, Power Pack heads, Edelbrock carb and intake, turbo 350 trans
1985 Mercedes 300D stock for now
I agree, a friend of mine had a 250 with a 7.3, 4" lift, and 3" stainless exhaust. Manual transmission. I smoked a 5.0 mustang with that thing, that kid didn't get laid that night. Don't always need high RPM for fast take-off.
Also, unloaded, my 2005 International 4300 (CDL 6sp MT) can keep up with traffic effortlessly. That thing has a 2500RPM redline
1987 Mazda B2200 "outlaw" **planning phase** Chevy 283, Power Pack heads, Edelbrock carb and intake, turbo 350 trans
1985 Mercedes 300D stock for now
But mostly they are just heavy as hell and drive like crap in small car swaps.
They are great truck engines for pulling 20k lbs though.
whipplem104
12-11-2016, 01:38 PM #18My point is that if you mate that up with standard car ratios it just does not work that great. And most are not doing a full build on one in a car swap to make 2000lb/ft of tq. And you would have to put a truck transmission in as well. It just does not make sense when a 200hp/370lb/tq 4600rpm engine is out there and works. And even if a company spent way more money than me developing a standalone Bosch ecu and sold them for swaps it would just be way better. And if you want old mechanical engines go with the om606. Huge power and tq cheap and a small package.
But mostly they are just heavy as hell and drive like crap in small car swaps.
They are great truck engines for pulling 20k lbs though.
50harleyrider
12-12-2016, 09:28 AM #19Thanks for the input guys. How about some shorter engines than I6 with arround 3 liter displacements. The power strokes are fine in 3/4 ton and up trucks. I'm talking light duty trucks getting close to 30 mpg. The 4bt cummins is a torque monster and a tall engine best suited to lifted vehicles or 2wd ones.
(12-11-2016, 01:38 PM)whipplem104 My point is that if you mate that up with standard car ratios it just does not work that great. And most are not doing a full build on one in a car swap to make 2000lb/ft of tq. And you would have to put a truck transmission in as well. It just does not make sense when a 200hp/370lb/tq 4600rpm engine is out there and works. And even if a company spent way more money than me developing a standalone Bosch ecu and sold them for swaps it would just be way better. And if you want old mechanical engines go with the om606. Huge power and tq cheap and a small package.
But mostly they are just heavy as hell and drive like crap in small car swaps.
They are great truck engines for pulling 20k lbs though.
Oh I agree totally. OM6## for a car (Or a built up TDI)
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-12-2016, 11:02 PM #21(12-11-2016, 01:38 PM)whipplem104 My point is that if you mate that up with standard car ratios it just does not work that great. And most are not doing a full build on one in a car swap to make 2000lb/ft of tq. And you would have to put a truck transmission in as well. It just does not make sense when a 200hp/370lb/tq 4600rpm engine is out there and works. And even if a company spent way more money than me developing a standalone Bosch ecu and sold them for swaps it would just be way better. And if you want old mechanical engines go with the om606. Huge power and tq cheap and a small package.
But mostly they are just heavy as hell and drive like crap in small car swaps.
They are great truck engines for pulling 20k lbs though.
Oh I agree totally. OM6## for a car (Or a built up TDI)
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
50harleyrider
12-13-2016, 06:51 AM #22Is there a TDi V6 or I5 available in America that can be controlled fairly simply. All the TDI donors I've seen in the past are 1.9 ALH or 1Z which don't have enough displacement and torque for a 5k truck. a v10 Toureg TDI would be awesome but they are maintenance hogs.
(12-12-2016, 01:48 PM)whipplem104 om613-647 sprinterHow is that engine controlled? Would I have to get the ecu and harness out of the sprinter and try to make it work? What about pollution equipment and fuel pumps?
50harleyrider
12-13-2016, 06:55 AM #23(12-12-2016, 01:48 PM)whipplem104 om613-647 sprinterHow is that engine controlled? Would I have to get the ecu and harness out of the sprinter and try to make it work? What about pollution equipment and fuel pumps?
whipplem104
12-14-2016, 09:01 AM #24Yes you need the ecu. Or an expensive aftermarket ecu. But like I said I think I could do the same thing with the 647 ecu at least as I did with my 648 ecu. It costs me a bit of money to try but if there was serious interest I would look into it.
50harleyrider
12-15-2016, 03:31 PM #25There are lots of the 2.7 I5 Dodge sprinter diesel vans (2000-2006) I've located several rusty or high mileage ones throughout the country for good prices (under $3k). what transmissions would bolt to them? That's the OM647 LA I believe. Rated at 154 HP in the Sprinter. Would definitely need a kick in the pants tune and turbo to be useful.
whipplem104
12-15-2016, 05:40 PM #26It is the torque they make. Just like the om648. It only makes 200hp but it has 370lb/ft of torque. I do not remember the specs on the 647 but it pulls a lot of weight in a sprinter van. I have worked on plumbers vans and they must be over 10k lbs and drive pretty well.
50harleyrider
12-16-2016, 08:01 AM #27Sounds like good potential. Where can I find the transmission bolt pattern? Is it the same as an OM648 which is different from the OM606. Looks like my next project. Should be fairly simple to get 250 hp with the smoothness of an I5.
whipplem104
12-16-2016, 09:40 AM #28I think the 647 has the standard inline pattern. Just look up a bellhousing part number in the epc and cross reference to other vehicles.
Steve.
I was at the PRI show in Indianapolis last weekend. Cummins was showing their 4 cylinder, 2.8L engine, which will be available as a "crate" engine, including wiring, ECU, throttle control, etc. It's intended for the JEEP type swaps. They had it mounted in a CJ Jeep chassis.
Steve.
50harleyrider
12-19-2016, 05:59 PM #30I've heard those engines will not be available in the US. Can you confirm otherwise? The 3.9 would be pretty sweet for 1/2 ton truck swaps. The 2.8 for small trucks.
(12-19-2016, 05:59 PM)50harleyrider I've heard those engines will not be available in the US. Can you confirm otherwise? The 3.9 would be pretty sweet for 1/2 ton truck swaps. The 2.8 for small trucks.
They're already in GMC Canyon & Chevy Colorado here in the States.
It's the same basic motor as the 05-07 Jeep Liberty because VM Motori changed ownership.
(12-19-2016, 05:59 PM)50harleyrider I've heard those engines will not be available in the US. Can you confirm otherwise? The 3.9 would be pretty sweet for 1/2 ton truck swaps. The 2.8 for small trucks.
They're already in GMC Canyon & Chevy Colorado here in the States.
It's the same basic motor as the 05-07 Jeep Liberty because VM Motori changed ownership.
(12-19-2016, 07:01 PM)CRD4x4The 2.8 might be available in the vehicles you listed but I'm primarily interested in the 3.8 ISF which is not available in any vehicle so I need to see if a 3.8 ISF crate motor/ecu can be bought here in the states. I doubt it. I visited Cummins(12-19-2016, 05:59 PM)50harleyrider I've heard those engines will not be available in the US. Can you confirm otherwise? The 3.9 would be pretty sweet for 1/2 ton truck swaps. The 2.8 for small trucks.
They're already in GMC Canyon & Chevy Colorado here in the States.
It's the same basic motor as the 05-07 Jeep Liberty because VM Motori changed ownership.
Americas website and the 3.8 ISF is only available in Euro 3 and Euro 4 emissions versions so until an EPA version is available, we won't get it.
50harleyrider
12-20-2016, 07:11 AM #32(12-19-2016, 07:01 PM)CRD4x4The 2.8 might be available in the vehicles you listed but I'm primarily interested in the 3.8 ISF which is not available in any vehicle so I need to see if a 3.8 ISF crate motor/ecu can be bought here in the states. I doubt it. I visited Cummins(12-19-2016, 05:59 PM)50harleyrider I've heard those engines will not be available in the US. Can you confirm otherwise? The 3.9 would be pretty sweet for 1/2 ton truck swaps. The 2.8 for small trucks.
They're already in GMC Canyon & Chevy Colorado here in the States.
It's the same basic motor as the 05-07 Jeep Liberty because VM Motori changed ownership.
Americas website and the 3.8 ISF is only available in Euro 3 and Euro 4 emissions versions so until an EPA version is available, we won't get it.
whipplem104
12-20-2016, 09:35 AM #33A couple of things on the isf engines. Again they only rev to 2600 rpm. They also do not put out that much power. The 3.8 does make some tq. And they are as long or longer than the inline 6 from mercedes.
50harleyrider
12-20-2016, 12:21 PM #34Longer than the OM606 huh? Probably because of all that aft cam gear train. I know guys have ran into issues with the 4BT length as well as height. Sounds like a V6 is in my future. Probably why everyone is going to them in newer vehicles. I need to find a Sprinter and see just how long the OM647 LA is. From junkyard photo I pasted here, it looks to be around 6" shorter than an om606.Would cure a lot of shoehorn woes. I had to hang my 606 vertically to get it down into the engine bay of my 97 F150. Those sleek lines sure have their drawbacks. Sucks.
whipplem104
12-21-2016, 12:48 PM #35Did a little prelim test this morning. Looks like the om647 ecu has the same protocols. So I can unlock them and should be able to marry no problem to an EIS
50harleyrider
12-22-2016, 08:01 AM #36That's a common rail engine, right? I may sound stupid here but what do you mean by marrying to an EIS?
Otherwise you have paper weights if you buy used parts.
whipplem104
12-22-2016, 09:00 AM #37Mercedes Drive Authorization System Or DAS has a few different generations of keys and setups. Sprinters used what we call DAS2 or DASx. Same as a early ML/SLK and a few others. They use a mechanical key blade still. DAS3 is the smart key. All that determines it is the programming. The ignition switch is and EIS> electronic ignition switch. All these components are programmed together. And in normal operation once they are they cannot be used in another vehicle at all. I can unlock the ecus making a used one able to be transfered to another vehicle. I can also reprogram keys. So I can make a complete Key, EIS, ECU set that will start. and run.
Otherwise you have paper weights if you buy used parts.
(12-22-2016, 09:00 AM)whipplem104 Mercedes Drive Authorization System Or DAS has a few different generations of keys and setups. Sprinters used what we call DAS2 or DASx. Same as a early ML/SLK and a few others. They use a mechanical key blade still. DAS3 is the smart key. All that determines it is the programming. The ignition switch is and EIS> electronic ignition switch. All these components are programmed together. And in normal operation once they are they cannot be used in another vehicle at all. I can unlock the ecus making a used one able to be transfered to another vehicle. I can also reprogram keys. So I can make a complete Key, EIS, ECU set that will start. and run.
Otherwise you have paper weights if you buy used parts.
I've been able to get the OM606A ECUs converted to work in a new vehicle. It is relatively straightforward to transfer the EEPROM data from one ECU to another. I wanted a spare ECU and this worked great for me. Is it possible to do the same for some of the newer engines, for example an OM651? Can one eliminate dependence on the EIS completely (like the CR1 fix)?
(12-22-2016, 09:00 AM)whipplem104 Mercedes Drive Authorization System Or DAS has a few different generations of keys and setups. Sprinters used what we call DAS2 or DASx. Same as a early ML/SLK and a few others. They use a mechanical key blade still. DAS3 is the smart key. All that determines it is the programming. The ignition switch is and EIS> electronic ignition switch. All these components are programmed together. And in normal operation once they are they cannot be used in another vehicle at all. I can unlock the ecus making a used one able to be transfered to another vehicle. I can also reprogram keys. So I can make a complete Key, EIS, ECU set that will start. and run.
Otherwise you have paper weights if you buy used parts.
I've been able to get the OM606A ECUs converted to work in a new vehicle. It is relatively straightforward to transfer the EEPROM data from one ECU to another. I wanted a spare ECU and this worked great for me. Is it possible to do the same for some of the newer engines, for example an OM651? Can one eliminate dependence on the EIS completely (like the CR1 fix)?
I could eliminate the keys altogether with a full immobilizer clone setup but the time and expense is simply not worth it.
whipplem104
12-22-2016, 11:33 PM #39There is no immo delete in the newer ecus. Or at least no one knows how to. I have heard rumors of factory ecu bins that are without immo but that I have never seen. Unlocking them to work in another vehicle is fairly straight forward. The keys was a bit more expensive. And then the time reverse engineering the CAN bus for the other basic info required to use the ecu outside of its original environment.
I could eliminate the keys altogether with a full immobilizer clone setup but the time and expense is simply not worth it.
(12-19-2016, 05:59 PM)50harleyrider I've heard those engines will not be available in the US. Can you confirm otherwise? The 3.9 would be pretty sweet for 1/2 ton truck swaps. The 2.8 for small trucks.
I have no idea about the 3.9, but the 2.8 will definitely be available as a "Crate" package, directly from Cummins. They had one at the PRI booth, installed in a CJ jeep front end for demonstration purposes.
I believe they are going to offer the 5 Liter Cummins engine as a crate package as well.
Steve.
(12-19-2016, 05:59 PM)50harleyrider I've heard those engines will not be available in the US. Can you confirm otherwise? The 3.9 would be pretty sweet for 1/2 ton truck swaps. The 2.8 for small trucks.
I have no idea about the 3.9, but the 2.8 will definitely be available as a "Crate" package, directly from Cummins. They had one at the PRI booth, installed in a CJ jeep front end for demonstration purposes.
I believe they are going to offer the 5 Liter Cummins engine as a crate package as well.
Steve.
Good morning Richard,
The ISF3.8 engine isn't available in the North American Market. We have a crate engine coming out early in 2017 but it is the R2.8 engine. The R2.8 would be our first crate engine so I'm not sure if or when the 3.8 will come out.
If you are interested in the 3.8, you can go to www.cumminsengines.com/repower and fill out a survey. It will allow you to tell our marketing team, that you are wanting a 3.8 engine. That is how we got the 2.8 engine to become available in the North American market next year.
Thank you for contacting Cummins.
Mark
Customer Care Representative
If we have misunderstood the information in your communication or you have additional questions please feel free to respond to our support staff by e-mailing powermaster@cummins.com or call Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET at 1-800-DIESELS (1-800-343-7357). If you are located outside of North America, you can reach us at 812-377-3000.
For authorized service center locations please visit:
http://locator.cummins.com
Cummins.com
Everytime.cummins.com
50harleyrider
12-28-2016, 07:14 AM #42here's a reply I got from Cummins on the subject. Unfortunately no 3.8 ISF available in NA yet but you lucky dogs across the pond can probably get it:
Good morning Richard,
The ISF3.8 engine isn't available in the North American Market. We have a crate engine coming out early in 2017 but it is the R2.8 engine. The R2.8 would be our first crate engine so I'm not sure if or when the 3.8 will come out.
If you are interested in the 3.8, you can go to www.cumminsengines.com/repower and fill out a survey. It will allow you to tell our marketing team, that you are wanting a 3.8 engine. That is how we got the 2.8 engine to become available in the North American market next year.
Thank you for contacting Cummins.
Mark
Customer Care Representative
If we have misunderstood the information in your communication or you have additional questions please feel free to respond to our support staff by e-mailing powermaster@cummins.com or call Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET at 1-800-DIESELS (1-800-343-7357). If you are located outside of North America, you can reach us at 812-377-3000.
For authorized service center locations please visit:
http://locator.cummins.com
Cummins.com
Everytime.cummins.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6H5dM-hxdU
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Will just drop this here while it's on topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6H5dM-hxdU
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
50harleyrider
12-29-2016, 07:40 AM #44Cool video. That's the 2.8. Wouldn't have the guts to power a 1/2 ton truck towing a camper. The 'unavailable 3.8' would be much better. Still cool though for toy trucks(rangers s-10,etc) and jeeps.
(12-29-2016, 07:40 AM)50harleyrider Cool video. That's the 2.8. Wouldn't have the guts to power a 1/2 ton truck towing a camper. The 'unavailable 3.8' would be much better. Still cool though for toy trucks(rangers s-10,etc) and jeeps.
My 2.8 "toy" Jeep had no problem towing 6,000+ lbs 65 mph up and down long mountain grades for around 400 miles. The only thing I didn't like was having to drive with OD off but thats a transmission complaint.
Before you dismiss this engine, you should drive one that's been tuned.
(12-29-2016, 07:40 AM)50harleyrider Cool video. That's the 2.8. Wouldn't have the guts to power a 1/2 ton truck towing a camper. The 'unavailable 3.8' would be much better. Still cool though for toy trucks(rangers s-10,etc) and jeeps.
My 2.8 "toy" Jeep had no problem towing 6,000+ lbs 65 mph up and down long mountain grades for around 400 miles. The only thing I didn't like was having to drive with OD off but thats a transmission complaint.
Before you dismiss this engine, you should drive one that's been tuned.
(12-29-2016, 08:30 AM)CRD4x4I would like to see one in a 5500lb 4x4 truck. Would be really surprised if it could perform well enough. I'm certain Cummins agrees or they wouldn't offer the ISF 3.8. Unfortunatelty that offering is only abroad. By the time one tweaked a 2.8 to get enough HP, it probably wouldn't get much better fuel mileage than the 4 liter gasser. Everyone interested in the ISF 3.8 should contact Cummins marketing and fill out the survey. CRD4X4 it looks like we're fairly close. I'm in WV. I'll let you know when my 606 F150 swap is complete and we'll try to hook up and show off our toys. I'm down to the TCU and ECU wiring now.(12-29-2016, 07:40 AM)50harleyrider Cool video. That's the 2.8. Wouldn't have the guts to power a 1/2 ton truck towing a camper. The 'unavailable 3.8' would be much better. Still cool though for toy trucks(rangers s-10,etc) and jeeps.
My 2.8 "toy" Jeep had no problem towing 6,000+ lbs 65 mph up and down long mountain grades for around 400 miles. The only thing I didn't like was having to drive with OD off but thats a transmission complaint.
Before you dismiss this engine, you should drive one that's been tuned.
50harleyrider
12-30-2016, 07:02 AM #46(12-29-2016, 08:30 AM)CRD4x4I would like to see one in a 5500lb 4x4 truck. Would be really surprised if it could perform well enough. I'm certain Cummins agrees or they wouldn't offer the ISF 3.8. Unfortunatelty that offering is only abroad. By the time one tweaked a 2.8 to get enough HP, it probably wouldn't get much better fuel mileage than the 4 liter gasser. Everyone interested in the ISF 3.8 should contact Cummins marketing and fill out the survey. CRD4X4 it looks like we're fairly close. I'm in WV. I'll let you know when my 606 F150 swap is complete and we'll try to hook up and show off our toys. I'm down to the TCU and ECU wiring now.(12-29-2016, 07:40 AM)50harleyrider Cool video. That's the 2.8. Wouldn't have the guts to power a 1/2 ton truck towing a camper. The 'unavailable 3.8' would be much better. Still cool though for toy trucks(rangers s-10,etc) and jeeps.
My 2.8 "toy" Jeep had no problem towing 6,000+ lbs 65 mph up and down long mountain grades for around 400 miles. The only thing I didn't like was having to drive with OD off but thats a transmission complaint.
Before you dismiss this engine, you should drive one that's been tuned.
50harleyrider
01-23-2017, 05:54 AM #47Does anyone have any knowledge of the 3 liter blue tech engine introduced in the US in 2007. V6 do have their advantage as far as length of engine goes. Is it a common rail similar to the 3.2 cdi? I'm seeing them pop up around the US salvage yards for good prices. Would it be difficult for ecu control and transmission adaptation?
Those engines use a arquitecture which is known and prone to very expensive and catastrophic failures , simple cause the crankcase is made of aluminium, and is electron beam welded toguether, cylinders are stell liners some how glued to the case and the heads use the variable valve lift tech or its suposed to be that way.
I heard reports from bottom failure, head failure, and gasket failures very often , when they were introduced in europe mane went to full replacement.
2015 models of it apear to be a "A" MB engine , but if u have access to a OM648 WHY? is the same assle to have it running.
regards
FD,
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OM642, crap
Those engines use a arquitecture which is known and prone to very expensive and catastrophic failures , simple cause the crankcase is made of aluminium, and is electron beam welded toguether, cylinders are stell liners some how glued to the case and the heads use the variable valve lift tech or its suposed to be that way.
I heard reports from bottom failure, head failure, and gasket failures very often , when they were introduced in europe mane went to full replacement.
2015 models of it apear to be a "A" MB engine , but if u have access to a OM648 WHY? is the same assle to have it running.
regards
FD,
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50harleyrider
01-23-2017, 11:24 AM #49Thanks Barrote. That is really good to hear. I guess I wiil stick to the inline 6 Mercedes engines for future swaps. I really hope Baldur gets involved with aftermarket ECU development for the OM648. More and more of those are becoming available in the US. I would love to see some 300HP builds for them.
For the 300 u can get them using the eficiency trick things... including amg tips.
There's a project here about a 320 cdi. I'm so sure it can be swapped alone kind....
FD,
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300 hp from a 648 is easy as stealing a candy from a child... 600 is tricky though. But unfortunatly i can't help much since a full reprograming is needed.
For the 300 u can get them using the eficiency trick things... including amg tips.
There's a project here about a 320 cdi. I'm so sure it can be swapped alone kind....
FD,
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