Lowest fuel consumption possible with OM60x engine?
Lowest fuel consumption possible with OM60x engine?
Being a fan of both diesels and electric vehicles (I know it is a bit of an oxymoron), I have decided that I want to build a diesel-electric series hybrid. Basically a road-going locomotive.
I assume the OM601 is the most efficient of all the OM engines available in the US, as far as fuel consumption goes. I am guessing that the OM604 available in Europe is even better at sipping diesel, and I would like to experiment with doing the head and piston swap in the future, but for now the 601 is the most likely candidate. However, the 601 is also the oldest, so perhaps I am wrong, in which case please correct me.
Another thing I am trying to decide on is whether I should add a turbo if I do go with the 601. I would most likely use the stock 606 turbo. No larger elements or any fancy performance mods, only an intercooler. The turbo would be purely to make the engine burn diesel more efficiently, at least that would be my hope. On the other hand, I know the US-spec 601 does not have the piston cooling jets, so I am not sure how badly its reliability would suffer. The engine would only be used as a generator so it would be set to idle at a constant speed. This would probably be somewhere around 2500rpm.
I would love to hear what kind of fuel economy people have achieved with the various variants of the OM engines. I have not had much luck finding any specific fuel efficiency or mpg data for the OM602, OM603, or OM606. If anyone has them, please post them. I am especially interested in how the economy varies between the NA and turbo models.
Any input on increasing efficiency and longevity is appreciated!
Irony.cc
Hello gentlemen,
Being a fan of both diesels and electric vehicles (I know it is a bit of an oxymoron), I have decided that I want to build a diesel-electric series hybrid. Basically a road-going locomotive.
I assume the OM601 is the most efficient of all the OM engines available in the US, as far as fuel consumption goes. I am guessing that the OM604 available in Europe is even better at sipping diesel, and I would like to experiment with doing the head and piston swap in the future, but for now the 601 is the most likely candidate. However, the 601 is also the oldest, so perhaps I am wrong, in which case please correct me.
Another thing I am trying to decide on is whether I should add a turbo if I do go with the 601. I would most likely use the stock 606 turbo. No larger elements or any fancy performance mods, only an intercooler. The turbo would be purely to make the engine burn diesel more efficiently, at least that would be my hope. On the other hand, I know the US-spec 601 does not have the piston cooling jets, so I am not sure how badly its reliability would suffer. The engine would only be used as a generator so it would be set to idle at a constant speed. This would probably be somewhere around 2500rpm.
I would love to hear what kind of fuel economy people have achieved with the various variants of the OM engines. I have not had much luck finding any specific fuel efficiency or mpg data for the OM602, OM603, or OM606. If anyone has them, please post them. I am especially interested in how the economy varies between the NA and turbo models.
Any input on increasing efficiency and longevity is appreciated!
Irony.cc
if one is purely interested in increasing the efficiency there are things you could do that would help. ceramic coating the pistons valves and exhaust ports helps reduce thermal rejection into the cooling system which in turn helps to improve thermal to mechanical conversion while also increasing the available energy in the exhaust gas steam to recover in the turbo. pre-heating the fuel improves the vaporization in the injection cycle( i might look at coolant jacketing/ducting exhaust around the injection lines as excessive fuel temp might hurt the pump) i am running VW AAZ injectors in my OM617 and they have noticeably improved the fuel economy they are two stage mechanical injectors however im not sure they would work on the later OM60X engines. minor water injection might help with both longevity and efficiency as the expansion of water helps convert thermal to mechanical energy while also cleaning the chambers. depending on desired output i might look at running a thinner oil to reduce the friction losses also look at what kind of windage control the engine has as that can be an appreciable loss in efficiency.
You'd need an industrial governor so you can set the RPM. Depending what extent you want to go, you could tune the inlet manifold for best scavenging, but I would still run a turbo - if the governor gives enough fuel just to make a touch of smoke when running under load with no boost then by the time you add boost you'll hardly be stressing it...
Keeping a keen eye on this thread
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Oh cool - I've thought about a compact powerful diesel genny for a EV range extender.
You'd need an industrial governor so you can set the RPM. Depending what extent you want to go, you could tune the inlet manifold for best scavenging, but I would still run a turbo - if the governor gives enough fuel just to make a touch of smoke when running under load with no boost then by the time you add boost you'll hardly be stressing it...
Keeping a keen eye on this thread
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
I am hoping for over 40 mpg...mayeb¿
roninguitars
12-22-2016, 01:27 AM #4I've got a 1995 e300 D which just got a 5 speed swap. My plan is max MPG and good power with a turbo kit, 3" exhaust and tubular manifold with a water to air intercooler and water/alcohol injection into each plenum. I'd be happy with around 175-200 HP. I'll be having my pump rebuilt with 7.5mm elements at a shop here in CA but my fuel will probably be setup somewhere around 45cc-70cc with 8-10 psi maybe? Still trying to work out how best to achieve a really efficient and and safe ratio of boost to fuel for a modest setup like this.
I am hoping for over 40 mpg...mayeb¿
Electric drives only cause trans eficiency and be able use dinamic braking.
In a 50 ton below veycle the best solution is still what mazda and volvo did.
Conventiomal engine in series with electric engine and paralell energy storage.
Basically u add a brushless electric engine/generator in the drive line so that the electric
Engine help the conventional drive the car.
The not so best is the software and hard ware u need to control the generator or both of them.
Acel both engines . Brake electric becames gen . Cruise and dwn hill electric becomes gen.
During dead period kill the diesel..... and then comes the storage part..... aas u know it must be something
Like Li something ...not cheap....
Its a great idea , the most economic of those engines is the 611 D22. Or the 601 D23
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Not to high jack.... but locomotives and other alike offroad haulers use
Electric drives only cause trans eficiency and be able use dinamic braking.
In a 50 ton below veycle the best solution is still what mazda and volvo did.
Conventiomal engine in series with electric engine and paralell energy storage.
Basically u add a brushless electric engine/generator in the drive line so that the electric
Engine help the conventional drive the car.
The not so best is the software and hard ware u need to control the generator or both of them.
Acel both engines . Brake electric becames gen . Cruise and dwn hill electric becomes gen.
During dead period kill the diesel..... and then comes the storage part..... aas u know it must be something
Like Li something ...not cheap....
Its a great idea , the most economic of those engines is the 611 D22. Or the 601 D23
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Unless the trio of cylinders chosen to run full fuel could be alternated, I foresee uneven wear as being a long term result.
The way GM used it, the cylinders that didn't fire had their valves closed longer to create a "hot gas spring" effect to cushion the next cylinders power stroke.
I'm interested in whether or not a "displacement on demand" type of system could work with OM60x whereby 3 cylinders could be deprived fuel under low load (highway cruising or at idle).
Unless the trio of cylinders chosen to run full fuel could be alternated, I foresee uneven wear as being a long term result.
The way GM used it, the cylinders that didn't fire had their valves closed longer to create a "hot gas spring" effect to cushion the next cylinders power stroke.
(12-22-2016, 11:27 AM)CRD4x4 I'm interested in whether or not a "displacement on demand" type of system could work with OM60x whereby 3 cylinders could be deprived fuel under low load (highway cruising or at idle).
Unless the trio of cylinders chosen to run full fuel could be alternated, I foresee uneven wear as being a long term result.
The way GM used it, the cylinders that didn't fire had their valves closed longer to create a "hot gas spring" effect to cushion the next cylinders power stroke.
There's no fuel saved by just shutting off fuelling to half the cylinders, the remaining cylinders will just have to work harder to do the same amount of work. The key to the displacement on demand system is the elimination of the pumping losses associated with the extra cylinders by shutting their valves.
Baldur Gislason
(12-22-2016, 11:27 AM)CRD4x4 I'm interested in whether or not a "displacement on demand" type of system could work with OM60x whereby 3 cylinders could be deprived fuel under low load (highway cruising or at idle).
Unless the trio of cylinders chosen to run full fuel could be alternated, I foresee uneven wear as being a long term result.
The way GM used it, the cylinders that didn't fire had their valves closed longer to create a "hot gas spring" effect to cushion the next cylinders power stroke.
There's no fuel saved by just shutting off fuelling to half the cylinders, the remaining cylinders will just have to work harder to do the same amount of work. The key to the displacement on demand system is the elimination of the pumping losses associated with the extra cylinders by shutting their valves.
Baldur Gislason
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
When looking for most efficient diesel I would definitely not consider prechamber diesel. Either direct injected mercedes 2.9Ltr, or CDI oooor rotary pump TDI.
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
The locomotive comment was mostly a joke. I want it to function similar to the BMW i3. It is primarily an EV, it has batteries, the combustion engine just helps extend range.
For example, this experimental generator trailer can keep the Toyota RAV EV prototype on the highway for as long as there is fuel in the tank and still gets better gas mileage than the regular fuel model. That is pretty impressive, since EV's are at their worst on the highway where aerodynamics and wind resistance play a major role, especially when it comes to SUV's with horrible drag coefficients.
![[Image: rav_longranger01.jpg]](http://www.evnut.com/images/rav4/rav_longranger/rav_longranger01.jpg)
I am aware of the shortcomings of the older mechanical prechamber diesels. An ideal engine for the generator would be the 3-cylinder OM660 (funny naming coincidence) out of the Smart Fortwo CDi.
However, the OM60x engines are simple, I am familiar with them, and I would like to avoid dealing with any unnecessary electronics and keep having to make custom parts to a minimum. I know that is ironic when talking about EV's, but I still value simplicity first.
Not to mention the OM60x will look native in the car. I think one of the coolest things would be that to the average person, the car would appear stock under the hood. No one would suspect that instead of a gearbox there are electric motors stuffed in the transmission tunnel. I plan to use dual 9" motors and dual controllers, so it should actually be a pretty quick car.
Irony.cc
Thank you for the replies. Some great ideas.
The locomotive comment was mostly a joke. I want it to function similar to the BMW i3. It is primarily an EV, it has batteries, the combustion engine just helps extend range.
For example, this experimental generator trailer can keep the Toyota RAV EV prototype on the highway for as long as there is fuel in the tank and still gets better gas mileage than the regular fuel model. That is pretty impressive, since EV's are at their worst on the highway where aerodynamics and wind resistance play a major role, especially when it comes to SUV's with horrible drag coefficients.
I am aware of the shortcomings of the older mechanical prechamber diesels. An ideal engine for the generator would be the 3-cylinder OM660 (funny naming coincidence) out of the Smart Fortwo CDi.
However, the OM60x engines are simple, I am familiar with them, and I would like to avoid dealing with any unnecessary electronics and keep having to make custom parts to a minimum. I know that is ironic when talking about EV's, but I still value simplicity first.
Not to mention the OM60x will look native in the car. I think one of the coolest things would be that to the average person, the car would appear stock under the hood. No one would suspect that instead of a gearbox there are electric motors stuffed in the transmission tunnel. I plan to use dual 9" motors and dual controllers, so it should actually be a pretty quick car.
Irony.cc
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Two DC motors bolted inline might, or just the one if you were happy with that much power
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Lowest average fuel consumption i've ever had on an OM60X was around 6.5 L/100km. My father drove about 200km on the highway, constant speed about 100km/h. The car is a '96 C250 Turbodiesel S202 wagon, five speed manual. I drive much more agressive than my dad and i average around 9l/100km , a lot of highway driving, maybe 10% of total mileage city 70% highway, rest of it is locar regional road.
But coupled with a 4 cylinder om604 with some changes mentioned above im sure you could get excellent fuel consumption and still have that electric torque kick.
The gearbox uses two motors and acts like a CVT gearbox. You would still require a sizable battery pack.
Not quite the hybrid system your considering but its an alternative idea.
An idea i had looked at was using a lexus gs450h/ ls600h gearbox, some people use this for pure ev use already.
But coupled with a 4 cylinder om604 with some changes mentioned above im sure you could get excellent fuel consumption and still have that electric torque kick.
The gearbox uses two motors and acts like a CVT gearbox. You would still require a sizable battery pack.
Not quite the hybrid system your considering but its an alternative idea.
(12-31-2016, 01:34 AM)NZScott Two DC motors bolted inline might, or just the one if you were happy with that much powerYes, one motor would definitely fit in place of the transmission, even a larger diameter one. So I could use an 11" motor instead of two 9" motors coupled together. Two will not fit inline, unfortunately, unless I cut up the transmission tunnel, which I do not want to do. However, I really want to use two motors instead of one.
One method to get two 9" motors to fit would be to move the diesel engine over to the side, and fit the front electric motor next to it, and then couple it to the second motor with a slip yoke shaft. Although that would be quite crammed and unpleasant to work on.
I am seriously leaning toward putting the OM601 in the trunk now. I measured and it would fit with ease. The car is a 190E by the way. I would not need to run an exhaust from the front to the rear, and it would be a tidy way to keep the two propulsion systems separated. All the diesel stuff would be in the rear, and the electric stuff in the front.
(12-31-2016, 10:57 AM)seanyt An idea i had looked at was using a lexus gs450h/ ls600h gearbox, some people use this for pure ev use already.The problem is finding a way to control systems like that. AC systems are quite a bit more complicated, especially OEM ones. It requires a custom controller, and they usually run on much higher voltage than the aftermarket motors, so unless one is a skilled electrical engineer, and possibly a hacker, it is a no-go.
But coupled with a 4 cylinder om604 with some changes mentioned above im sure you could get excellent fuel consumption and still have that electric torque kick.
The gearbox uses two motors and acts like a CVT gearbox. You would still require a sizable battery pack.
Not quite the hybrid system your considering but its an alternative idea.
This guy converts BMW's to EV's and he also experimented with the setup you mention:
https://www.youtube.com/user/pooey1911/videos
I am not sure how far he progressed with it and if he tried using it in a car yet. AC conversions generally also tend to be about twice as expensive. For the time being I just want to keep it simple and use off-the-shelf DC motors and controllers. Although I would eventually like to do AC in the future as it definitely has its advantages over DC. I would probably just use a universal motor and controller kit such as the ones made by HPEVS.
For the generator motor, I plan to use the IMA motor from a Honda Civic Hybrid attached to the OM601's crankshaft.
Irony.cc
(12-31-2016, 01:34 AM)NZScott Two DC motors bolted inline might, or just the one if you were happy with that much powerYes, one motor would definitely fit in place of the transmission, even a larger diameter one. So I could use an 11" motor instead of two 9" motors coupled together. Two will not fit inline, unfortunately, unless I cut up the transmission tunnel, which I do not want to do. However, I really want to use two motors instead of one.
One method to get two 9" motors to fit would be to move the diesel engine over to the side, and fit the front electric motor next to it, and then couple it to the second motor with a slip yoke shaft. Although that would be quite crammed and unpleasant to work on.
I am seriously leaning toward putting the OM601 in the trunk now. I measured and it would fit with ease. The car is a 190E by the way. I would not need to run an exhaust from the front to the rear, and it would be a tidy way to keep the two propulsion systems separated. All the diesel stuff would be in the rear, and the electric stuff in the front.
(12-31-2016, 10:57 AM)seanyt An idea i had looked at was using a lexus gs450h/ ls600h gearbox, some people use this for pure ev use already.The problem is finding a way to control systems like that. AC systems are quite a bit more complicated, especially OEM ones. It requires a custom controller, and they usually run on much higher voltage than the aftermarket motors, so unless one is a skilled electrical engineer, and possibly a hacker, it is a no-go.
But coupled with a 4 cylinder om604 with some changes mentioned above im sure you could get excellent fuel consumption and still have that electric torque kick.
The gearbox uses two motors and acts like a CVT gearbox. You would still require a sizable battery pack.
Not quite the hybrid system your considering but its an alternative idea.
This guy converts BMW's to EV's and he also experimented with the setup you mention:
https://www.youtube.com/user/pooey1911/videos
I am not sure how far he progressed with it and if he tried using it in a car yet. AC conversions generally also tend to be about twice as expensive. For the time being I just want to keep it simple and use off-the-shelf DC motors and controllers. Although I would eventually like to do AC in the future as it definitely has its advantages over DC. I would probably just use a universal motor and controller kit such as the ones made by HPEVS.
For the generator motor, I plan to use the IMA motor from a Honda Civic Hybrid attached to the OM601's crankshaft.
Irony.cc
Locomotives don´t use electric drive cause of only traction and braking , there are other interesting factors too , a train consumes a lot off power and this power can be generated in braking as AC like any generator, some goes to the "fry grid" the other to DC convertors and storage in the "main" batteries, wich will help in some ocasions , alowing the computers to run the main engine in Best Specific Fuel Consuption.
It would be interesting to use AC motors, but in a build focused in BSFC , converting DC stored to AC might lead to a loss , considerable loss.
Same aplies to voltage , 12 or 24 volt system is nowhere near the perfect system , i belive something above 100 and below 1000 would be more or less the targuet.
In my modest opinion i would build a DC motor arround the flywheel , with permanent magnets very alike those found in computer fans, use a storage of lithium packs , use a separate generator in the drive shaft , and system voltage at 400.
build a computer to manage the generator and the output to the flywhell DC cells. So that the function of the flywheel engine would be helping the diesel pulling instead of driving . The braking recovery system would have to be very well managed since braking the rear to intensive is a kind of dangerous game.
I would like to participate in something like this....
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
AC??? how do u store AC? the thing is all about storage....
Locomotives don´t use electric drive cause of only traction and braking , there are other interesting factors too , a train consumes a lot off power and this power can be generated in braking as AC like any generator, some goes to the "fry grid" the other to DC convertors and storage in the "main" batteries, wich will help in some ocasions , alowing the computers to run the main engine in Best Specific Fuel Consuption.
It would be interesting to use AC motors, but in a build focused in BSFC , converting DC stored to AC might lead to a loss , considerable loss.
Same aplies to voltage , 12 or 24 volt system is nowhere near the perfect system , i belive something above 100 and below 1000 would be more or less the targuet.
In my modest opinion i would build a DC motor arround the flywheel , with permanent magnets very alike those found in computer fans, use a storage of lithium packs , use a separate generator in the drive shaft , and system voltage at 400.
build a computer to manage the generator and the output to the flywhell DC cells. So that the function of the flywheel engine would be helping the diesel pulling instead of driving . The braking recovery system would have to be very well managed since braking the rear to intensive is a kind of dangerous game.
I would like to participate in something like this....
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
All current successful EV builds and commercial cars use AC , DC is fine on a budget but never ideal, The massive torque drop off per rpm means people end up using a transmission with DC whereas AC systems use a reduction drive, also Regen braking is possible in AC and not so much in DC (in some cases it is but the Efficiency is pityful)
The voltage ideally is 400v thereabout the higher you go the more rpm you can get from an AC motor depending on its mechanical limit before EMF drops your power way down.
This is a trade off between what size battery pack you use and in what configuration for voltage or current.
The idea of using the lexus hybrid gearbox in pure EV mode has only been recently completed by two people i know off in the links below.
The DC motors usually used in EV builds are low in terms of power/weight and easily 60kg per motor and have there disadvantages although cheap to implement with cheap DC controllers available.
A hybrid gearbox allows pure ev mode with two motors continuously regulating the gear ratio through the use of planetary gears and then using the ICE to provide additional power after initial acceleration and also to charge the battery's by putting one motor in regen while the engine provides power and then also using both motors in regen while braking.
Its very complex to implement but a great solution i think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXviugQv...e=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maNbqMkMcTg
Your solution of using the 601 is very similar to the fisker karma using a petrol 2.0 BMW engine.
what battery pack size and type are you planning on using?
would you consider making the 601 revs variable so when your moving it raises to 2.5k and drops to idle at a stop even just for NVH at 2.5k N/A ideally it should make about 30-35KW at full load and with most ev's consuming between 180-270W per mile it would get a considerable distance , but also your battery pack will need to be at least 40kw as most packs prefer to be charged at 1C unless its lipo and you can charge at more but not continuously or the lifespan will decrease.
If cost wasnt an issue some newer DI petrol 1.6 turbo engine will get you a very similar BSFC and come in alot lighter.
All the power is stored in DC and an inverter converts to AC then a 3 Phase controller regulated the power to the motor.
All current successful EV builds and commercial cars use AC , DC is fine on a budget but never ideal, The massive torque drop off per rpm means people end up using a transmission with DC whereas AC systems use a reduction drive, also Regen braking is possible in AC and not so much in DC (in some cases it is but the Efficiency is pityful)
The voltage ideally is 400v thereabout the higher you go the more rpm you can get from an AC motor depending on its mechanical limit before EMF drops your power way down.
This is a trade off between what size battery pack you use and in what configuration for voltage or current.
The idea of using the lexus hybrid gearbox in pure EV mode has only been recently completed by two people i know off in the links below.
The DC motors usually used in EV builds are low in terms of power/weight and easily 60kg per motor and have there disadvantages although cheap to implement with cheap DC controllers available.
A hybrid gearbox allows pure ev mode with two motors continuously regulating the gear ratio through the use of planetary gears and then using the ICE to provide additional power after initial acceleration and also to charge the battery's by putting one motor in regen while the engine provides power and then also using both motors in regen while braking.
Its very complex to implement but a great solution i think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXviugQv...e=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maNbqMkMcTg
Your solution of using the 601 is very similar to the fisker karma using a petrol 2.0 BMW engine.
what battery pack size and type are you planning on using?
would you consider making the 601 revs variable so when your moving it raises to 2.5k and drops to idle at a stop even just for NVH at 2.5k N/A ideally it should make about 30-35KW at full load and with most ev's consuming between 180-270W per mile it would get a considerable distance , but also your battery pack will need to be at least 40kw as most packs prefer to be charged at 1C unless its lipo and you can charge at more but not continuously or the lifespan will decrease.
If cost wasnt an issue some newer DI petrol 1.6 turbo engine will get you a very similar BSFC and come in alot lighter.
(01-07-2017, 09:06 AM)CRD4x4 Those Honda IMA motors look really promising!They can be stacked if you make some sort of a custom shaft for them to rotate on. Several people have attempted using them for various projects such as electric karts and motorcycles. To power a car one would need at least four of them though. But figuring out how to control them is the hardest part.
Do you think they could be stacked for more power?
Luckily, using one as a generator should be much simpler. From what people have found out so far, they generate about 30V at 400rpm, and 250V at 4000rpm. My system will be about 144-160V, so for my needs it will be well within a reasonable rpm range for the OM engine.
(01-07-2017, 03:46 PM)barrote AC??? how do u store AC? the thing is all about storage...The AC power is rectified into DC and then fed into the battery pack.
All OEM EV's and hybrids use AC motors yet they are fed from DC battery packs. During regeneration the AC power is converted back into DC and fed back into the battery.
(01-08-2017, 07:11 AM)seanyt would you consider making the 601 revs variable so when your moving it raises to 2.5k and drops to idle at a stop even just for NVH at 2.5k N/A ideally it should make about 30-35KW at full load and with most ev's consuming between 180-270W per mile it would get a considerable distance , but also your battery pack will need to be at least 40kw as most packs prefer to be charged at 1C unless its lipo and you can charge at more but not continuously or the lifespan will decrease.This is something that I would like to tackle in the future. At first I will just put together the simplest setup possible and see how it acts. I would have a voltage output gauge and an rpm gauge for the OM engine, and some kind of a throttle knob, so that I can adjust the rpms manually by hand from the cabin. If I can eventually figure out how to do it automatically, that would be great.
If cost wasnt an issue some newer DI petrol 1.6 turbo engine will get you a very similar BSFC and come in alot lighter.
I would actually love to use the Smart Cdi OM660 engine, but a standalone engine management is really difficult to obtain for it, which is a shame because it seems like an awesome little diesel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI9HGgKbon4
On the other hand, with the old mechanical OM engines, I think it would be funny to have an electric car that can be powered by waste vegetable oil. And once again I am on a kick of wanting it to look stock, so I may just use one larger motor in place of the transmission after all.
Irony.cc
(01-07-2017, 09:06 AM)CRD4x4 Those Honda IMA motors look really promising!They can be stacked if you make some sort of a custom shaft for them to rotate on. Several people have attempted using them for various projects such as electric karts and motorcycles. To power a car one would need at least four of them though. But figuring out how to control them is the hardest part.
Do you think they could be stacked for more power?
Luckily, using one as a generator should be much simpler. From what people have found out so far, they generate about 30V at 400rpm, and 250V at 4000rpm. My system will be about 144-160V, so for my needs it will be well within a reasonable rpm range for the OM engine.
(01-07-2017, 03:46 PM)barrote AC??? how do u store AC? the thing is all about storage...The AC power is rectified into DC and then fed into the battery pack.
All OEM EV's and hybrids use AC motors yet they are fed from DC battery packs. During regeneration the AC power is converted back into DC and fed back into the battery.
(01-08-2017, 07:11 AM)seanyt would you consider making the 601 revs variable so when your moving it raises to 2.5k and drops to idle at a stop even just for NVH at 2.5k N/A ideally it should make about 30-35KW at full load and with most ev's consuming between 180-270W per mile it would get a considerable distance , but also your battery pack will need to be at least 40kw as most packs prefer to be charged at 1C unless its lipo and you can charge at more but not continuously or the lifespan will decrease.This is something that I would like to tackle in the future. At first I will just put together the simplest setup possible and see how it acts. I would have a voltage output gauge and an rpm gauge for the OM engine, and some kind of a throttle knob, so that I can adjust the rpms manually by hand from the cabin. If I can eventually figure out how to do it automatically, that would be great.
If cost wasnt an issue some newer DI petrol 1.6 turbo engine will get you a very similar BSFC and come in alot lighter.
I would actually love to use the Smart Cdi OM660 engine, but a standalone engine management is really difficult to obtain for it, which is a shame because it seems like an awesome little diesel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI9HGgKbon4
On the other hand, with the old mechanical OM engines, I think it would be funny to have an electric car that can be powered by waste vegetable oil. And once again I am on a kick of wanting it to look stock, so I may just use one larger motor in place of the transmission after all.
Irony.cc
The situation when i look into it , is to obtain power rather than lower´s SFC .
The way a mech diesel work makes it the perfect system for automation, diesels only consume fuel if pump is injecting, and the injection quantity is directly proportional to power demand.
If one help the diesel with a electric means(able to regenerate as u call it) SFC will drastically fall. As of me since i´m not electricall and electronic DR, i assume a electric helper in the DC/AC config for the diesel helper would be the best bet. Like this one can limit the help from the electric (say 20kw) and drive the diesel as it was in a normal car. Regeneration would have to be done as primary braking system, and in some cases dwn Hill trigger wich is not so hard to achieve.
It seems to me a very easy build. Rather than the locomotive principle or the drag gen style, of couse but i´m limited.
Or buy a electric car then, or one hybrid and transplant it into your old MB.
FD,
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I´m out , i know AC can´t be stored ...
The situation when i look into it , is to obtain power rather than lower´s SFC .
The way a mech diesel work makes it the perfect system for automation, diesels only consume fuel if pump is injecting, and the injection quantity is directly proportional to power demand.
If one help the diesel with a electric means(able to regenerate as u call it) SFC will drastically fall. As of me since i´m not electricall and electronic DR, i assume a electric helper in the DC/AC config for the diesel helper would be the best bet. Like this one can limit the help from the electric (say 20kw) and drive the diesel as it was in a normal car. Regeneration would have to be done as primary braking system, and in some cases dwn Hill trigger wich is not so hard to achieve.
It seems to me a very easy build. Rather than the locomotive principle or the drag gen style, of couse but i´m limited.
Or buy a electric car then, or one hybrid and transplant it into your old MB.
FD,
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On ave i get mid to late 30's - so say 35-38.
One day I'll drive like a nun just to see what she will do.
Interestingly my old E300D ( 606.910) - completely bog standard would NEVER do more that 38mpg, even if you drove like a nun. That NA version of the engine needed the stick to get any decent performance - its designed that way.
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
maxypriest
01-10-2017, 10:58 AM #20Taking it easy my OM606/HX40/DM8.00mm/6-speed set up is able to better 40mpg (that is UK gallons which are 4.54lts).
On ave i get mid to late 30's - so say 35-38.
One day I'll drive like a nun just to see what she will do.
Interestingly my old E300D ( 606.910) - completely bog standard would NEVER do more that 38mpg, even if you drove like a nun. That NA version of the engine needed the stick to get any decent performance - its designed that way.
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
(01-10-2017, 08:10 AM)barrote Or buy a electric car then, or one hybrid and transplant it into your old MB.The original plan was to do a pure EV conversion. I do not really like most OEM EV's, but I really like niche electric vehicles, such as race cars and off-roaders, where they really shine. But I also love diesel Mercedes vehicles, so I decided I want a combination of both.
Ideally, it should give the car the driving characteristics and performance of an EV, with the ability to drive long distances. Getting good range out of a converted vehicle is extremely expensive and requires serious electrical and computer knowledge when it comes to safely setting up the battery management and charging.
(01-10-2017, 10:58 AM)maxypriest Taking it easy my OM606/HX40/DM8.00mm/6-speed set up is able to better 40mpg (that is UK gallons which are 4.54lts).It is really tempting to find an OM606 and connect it to a Nissan Leaf motor. That would provide enough power to not even need the battery most of the time (or to light up the house during a power outage
).It would make it impossible to mount the traction motors in the transmission tunnel, but I believe I could mod the rear subframe to flip the differential backwards and mount the traction motors in the trunk, connected to the differential through the spare tire well. Putting the electric motors in the rear would really open up my options for doing whatever I want.
Irony.cc
(01-10-2017, 08:10 AM)barrote Or buy a electric car then, or one hybrid and transplant it into your old MB.The original plan was to do a pure EV conversion. I do not really like most OEM EV's, but I really like niche electric vehicles, such as race cars and off-roaders, where they really shine. But I also love diesel Mercedes vehicles, so I decided I want a combination of both.
Ideally, it should give the car the driving characteristics and performance of an EV, with the ability to drive long distances. Getting good range out of a converted vehicle is extremely expensive and requires serious electrical and computer knowledge when it comes to safely setting up the battery management and charging.
(01-10-2017, 10:58 AM)maxypriest Taking it easy my OM606/HX40/DM8.00mm/6-speed set up is able to better 40mpg (that is UK gallons which are 4.54lts).It is really tempting to find an OM606 and connect it to a Nissan Leaf motor. That would provide enough power to not even need the battery most of the time (or to light up the house during a power outage
).It would make it impossible to mount the traction motors in the transmission tunnel, but I believe I could mod the rear subframe to flip the differential backwards and mount the traction motors in the trunk, connected to the differential through the spare tire well. Putting the electric motors in the rear would really open up my options for doing whatever I want.
Irony.cc
It can be done with conventional tech... i believe your idea or pure electric traction envolves too many electronics, and more than is needed...
Yesterday i read about a city truck by MAN , and they will start selling 150km range 45t truck , complete EV to endless range with the "helper tech" the customer can even extend the 150km EV to whatever power pack he is able to install.
Something curious was the fact that they had not offered the "locomotive principle" the article said it was due weight factors. the diesel engine batteries and electric drives acounted for huge weight, even in a city truck
FD,
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mr MATEJ, have u yet considered the "electric helper" i spoke about?
It can be done with conventional tech... i believe your idea or pure electric traction envolves too many electronics, and more than is needed...
Yesterday i read about a city truck by MAN , and they will start selling 150km range 45t truck , complete EV to endless range with the "helper tech" the customer can even extend the 150km EV to whatever power pack he is able to install.
Something curious was the fact that they had not offered the "locomotive principle" the article said it was due weight factors. the diesel engine batteries and electric drives acounted for huge weight, even in a city truck
FD,
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