601.970 -- carte blanche
601.970 -- carte blanche
The mechanic (my father) has informed me that the turbo bearing feels loose, which may result in oil leaking into the intake. I've driven this van approximately 60,000 km in the three years I've owned it, and never known it to lose any significant amount of oil in that time. The first exception was last week, when the oil light came on for 1-2 seconds and then turned off. I immediately shut it down and found that the oil level was about 2-3 mm below the add mark on the dip stick.
I have been using Shell Rotella T6 5W40 in this engine because it meets the MB spec and is locally available. MB recommends 20,000 km oil change intervals with approved oil. I have been changing the oil filter at 10,000 km and the oil at 20,000 km. I had 3,000 Km on the filter and 13,000 km on the oil when the oil light came on and I discovered the oil level to be low. The level was not low when I changed the filter at 10,000 km.
So some questions now that the engine is apart and I'm compiling a shopping list for the reassembly.
1. Can anybody tell me if it is normal for oil consumption to ramp up suddenly with an aging turbo bearing? Should I suspect rings or something else causing the sudden oil consumption?
I was planning on having the cylinder head milled to increase the compression ratio from the stock 18:1, mostly for easier starts, but also hoping for improved fuel efficiency.
edit: Looks like stock CR is 22:1? Not sure where I got the 18:1 figure. https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs/...iesel.html
2. What is the maximum recommended CR for this engine? Should I expect premature ring failure or increased oil consumption if I increase the CR? Other problems?
3. Can somebody provide numbers on how much milling would be required to attain a given CR?
4. My mechanic tells me the head has protrusions that descend past the level of the head gasket into the cylinder. Does anybody know what clearance exists between these protrusions and the piston at TDC? Or how much clearance needs to be maintained when milling the head? I'm trying to figure out how much can be safely milled.
5. I read this: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007/06/...ds-blocks/. Does anybody know the correct surface finish for this engine/head? Is that something I should be able to find in WIS/ASRA?
6. Any other recommended maintenance or mods, now that this thing is apart? I'm open to any ideas. My priorities are as follows:
1. reliability
2. efficiency
3. durability
4. affordability
5. performance
If I'm looking at replacing my turbo anyway, I'd be willing to look at a different model. I'm also open to injector upgrades, tips on milling the head, etc, etc.
Also please let me know if people would like to see specific photos or other information from this job.
Thanks for any input.
The 601.970 in my V230 TD is disassembled in a local shop at this very moment, with plans to replace the head gasket.
The mechanic (my father) has informed me that the turbo bearing feels loose, which may result in oil leaking into the intake. I've driven this van approximately 60,000 km in the three years I've owned it, and never known it to lose any significant amount of oil in that time. The first exception was last week, when the oil light came on for 1-2 seconds and then turned off. I immediately shut it down and found that the oil level was about 2-3 mm below the add mark on the dip stick.
I have been using Shell Rotella T6 5W40 in this engine because it meets the MB spec and is locally available. MB recommends 20,000 km oil change intervals with approved oil. I have been changing the oil filter at 10,000 km and the oil at 20,000 km. I had 3,000 Km on the filter and 13,000 km on the oil when the oil light came on and I discovered the oil level to be low. The level was not low when I changed the filter at 10,000 km.
So some questions now that the engine is apart and I'm compiling a shopping list for the reassembly.
1. Can anybody tell me if it is normal for oil consumption to ramp up suddenly with an aging turbo bearing? Should I suspect rings or something else causing the sudden oil consumption?
I was planning on having the cylinder head milled to increase the compression ratio from the stock 18:1, mostly for easier starts, but also hoping for improved fuel efficiency.
edit: Looks like stock CR is 22:1? Not sure where I got the 18:1 figure. https://www.ultimatespecs.com/car-specs/...iesel.html
2. What is the maximum recommended CR for this engine? Should I expect premature ring failure or increased oil consumption if I increase the CR? Other problems?
3. Can somebody provide numbers on how much milling would be required to attain a given CR?
4. My mechanic tells me the head has protrusions that descend past the level of the head gasket into the cylinder. Does anybody know what clearance exists between these protrusions and the piston at TDC? Or how much clearance needs to be maintained when milling the head? I'm trying to figure out how much can be safely milled.
5. I read this: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007/06/...ds-blocks/. Does anybody know the correct surface finish for this engine/head? Is that something I should be able to find in WIS/ASRA?
6. Any other recommended maintenance or mods, now that this thing is apart? I'm open to any ideas. My priorities are as follows:
1. reliability
2. efficiency
3. durability
4. affordability
5. performance
If I'm looking at replacing my turbo anyway, I'd be willing to look at a different model. I'm also open to injector upgrades, tips on milling the head, etc, etc.
Also please let me know if people would like to see specific photos or other information from this job.
Thanks for any input.
the compression ration in a MB IDI engine usually is 21/1 , and this is achieved at the cost of piston protrusion (ascent out of the block) and head gasket thickness. MB stores sells at least 3 types of gaskets with diff thicknesses , stock , repair one and repair two, but this aplies to block decking, and after that measuring the piston protrusion, and the manual states wich gasket u should use.
There are many places where the oil may leak out, and one of the most common is the turbo bearing, a 100.000 km turbo might be considered for a core replacement, that can be determined by the axial and longitudinal play in the bearing, anything more that a 1th of mm in longitudinal and 4 th in axial play is suspect, and should be changed.
besides the turbo bearing , the other most common condition to loose oil is the blow by , leak between the rings. Other condition is the valve guide seals , and finally head gasket, oil water heat exchangers, besides the normal sealing leaks to the outside.
I´ve seen many things , but a half milion km 601 usually does not suffer from any of the above conditions besides the turbo bearing.
I personally don´t like to overhaul engines, i´m more in the replacing broken parts .... but thats me ...
BTW facing the head assy won´t need special attention and wont reduce or increase your CR , but care should be used with the precups protrusion, if the head is too much cut they may colide with the pistons.
regards
FD,
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That engine is a indirect injection engine, changing watsoever in the injectors wont afect the performance, although the injectors should be serviced at least every 100.000km. and since the head is out why not service them.... clean the cups and expecially watch fot cracks.
the compression ration in a MB IDI engine usually is 21/1 , and this is achieved at the cost of piston protrusion (ascent out of the block) and head gasket thickness. MB stores sells at least 3 types of gaskets with diff thicknesses , stock , repair one and repair two, but this aplies to block decking, and after that measuring the piston protrusion, and the manual states wich gasket u should use.
There are many places where the oil may leak out, and one of the most common is the turbo bearing, a 100.000 km turbo might be considered for a core replacement, that can be determined by the axial and longitudinal play in the bearing, anything more that a 1th of mm in longitudinal and 4 th in axial play is suspect, and should be changed.
besides the turbo bearing , the other most common condition to loose oil is the blow by , leak between the rings. Other condition is the valve guide seals , and finally head gasket, oil water heat exchangers, besides the normal sealing leaks to the outside.
I´ve seen many things , but a half milion km 601 usually does not suffer from any of the above conditions besides the turbo bearing.
I personally don´t like to overhaul engines, i´m more in the replacing broken parts .... but thats me ...
BTW facing the head assy won´t need special attention and wont reduce or increase your CR , but care should be used with the precups protrusion, if the head is too much cut they may colide with the pistons.
regards
FD,
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(09-12-2016, 12:06 PM)barrote I personally don´t like to overhaul engines, i´m more in the replacing broken parts .... but thats me ...
Thank you for the excellent information. I wouldn't say I was looking to overhaul, but I knew the head gasket needed replacing, so I'll be taking the opportunity to do anything that needs doing while we're in here. The V Class is not domestic to NA, so getting parts is usually slow and expensive. I prefer to get everything at once whenever possible.
There is a ticking noise, so we'll be checking lifters and servicing injectors at the same time.
We will be looking at replacing the turbo core. I don't know how much play is there, but it is enough that the mechanic is concerned. I see some affordable CHRA kits on ebay. Would a kit like this fix the play in the bearing?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/152227588284?_trk...EBIDX%3AIT
And thank you for the information on the compression ratio. It sounds like there is little to gain and potentially much to lose by milling the head, unless it is warped.
(09-12-2016, 12:06 PM)barrote I personally don´t like to overhaul engines, i´m more in the replacing broken parts .... but thats me ...
Thank you for the excellent information. I wouldn't say I was looking to overhaul, but I knew the head gasket needed replacing, so I'll be taking the opportunity to do anything that needs doing while we're in here. The V Class is not domestic to NA, so getting parts is usually slow and expensive. I prefer to get everything at once whenever possible.
There is a ticking noise, so we'll be checking lifters and servicing injectors at the same time.
We will be looking at replacing the turbo core. I don't know how much play is there, but it is enough that the mechanic is concerned. I see some affordable CHRA kits on ebay. Would a kit like this fix the play in the bearing?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/152227588284?_trk...EBIDX%3AIT
And thank you for the information on the compression ratio. It sounds like there is little to gain and potentially much to lose by milling the head, unless it is warped.
I've studied up on performance tweaks. If I understand correctly, I can remove the IP rack limiter, adjust the injection timing, and possibly increase boost to maximise power from this engine before spending anything on performance parts.
I've also read the cheap tricks thread. My EGR vacuum tube is already plugged and the catalytic conver removed. I plan to check the throttle travel.
How much power is it reasonable to expect from the 601.970 without major investment? What would be the next step? IP replacement? Turbo upgrade?
Time for an update. The head is not warped. We have valve guids, seals, new injectors, and internals for the turbo ready to go back into assembly. Also a couple of boost gauges for pre-turbo and boost, and an EGT pyrometer.
I've studied up on performance tweaks. If I understand correctly, I can remove the IP rack limiter, adjust the injection timing, and possibly increase boost to maximise power from this engine before spending anything on performance parts.
I've also read the cheap tricks thread. My EGR vacuum tube is already plugged and the catalytic conver removed. I plan to check the throttle travel.
How much power is it reasonable to expect from the 601.970 without major investment? What would be the next step? IP replacement? Turbo upgrade?
a)incorrect,it's not a good idea to remove the rack limiter better adjust it if needed
b)doesn't apply for your engine since you have an M pump, the rack limiter is installed on MW pumps(o.617 turbo, and American 616 and 617 non turbo engines)
You can adjust the full load fueling on the pump and that will get you max around 120 HP if you have 5.5mm elements. I am not sure which elements are installed in the 2.3 TD OM601 but i think they are 6mm and they max out at 80cc which means max around 40hp per cylinder or 150-160hp total. If you wan't more you must install bigger elements. But at that point you will need a bigger turbo. If you don't have an intercooler i reccomend installing one.
The rack limiter info is
a)incorrect,it's not a good idea to remove the rack limiter better adjust it if needed
b)doesn't apply for your engine since you have an M pump, the rack limiter is installed on MW pumps(o.617 turbo, and American 616 and 617 non turbo engines)
You can adjust the full load fueling on the pump and that will get you max around 120 HP if you have 5.5mm elements. I am not sure which elements are installed in the 2.3 TD OM601 but i think they are 6mm and they max out at 80cc which means max around 40hp per cylinder or 150-160hp total. If you wan't more you must install bigger elements. But at that point you will need a bigger turbo. If you don't have an intercooler i reccomend installing one.
A good element for that engine is the famous ford transit 7 mil 018 522, (wich has cut off at 80 too) despite it works worst than a 7.5 , is kind of cheaper to adapt.
I have one of those pumps for sale. cheap one.
FD,
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Yep the 601D23 has a 018 552 element with hélix cut off at around 80cc. no matter how much rack one can give to it.
A good element for that engine is the famous ford transit 7 mil 018 522, (wich has cut off at 80 too) despite it works worst than a 7.5 , is kind of cheaper to adapt.
I have one of those pumps for sale. cheap one.
FD,
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